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Blueman
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 243 Washington, PA
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2007-01-08          138548


I haven't had much time to visit the board much, but haven't seen Randy on the board lately. The last post I saw was him getting into it with someone else on here with regards to a post I started about land use, Clean and Green, etc. I hope he didn't quit giving us his insight because of that!

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2007-01-08          138553


I think the abrasiveness of one member ran both Randy and Mark off. It just doesn't pay to respond to keyboard commandos. If they are completely ignored they usually get bored and move on. I'm really sorry to lose these guys. ....

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Blueman
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 243 Washington, PA
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2007-01-08          138554


I'm not sure which Mark we are speaking of, but if Dennis can reach out by email to both, and tell them we miss their input.... ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2007-01-08          138555


DRankin is Mark. ....

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Blueman
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 243 Washington, PA
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2007-01-08          138556


Well, I feel bad I haven't noticed Mark being gone as well...he very often gave me a lot of good advice. Dennis, what can you do to invite both of these gentleman back?? ....

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2694 NorthWest NJ
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2007-01-08          138557


Blueman,

I love having Mark and Randy at TP, I did not realize that the "Yankee" post was the last time they both posted here. I thought they meant they were leaving the thread only not TP.

Anyway, I hope they are just out hunting or ice fishing and will be back shortly.

Dennis ....

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2694 NorthWest NJ
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2007-01-08          138558


Interesting to note Wingwiper who was in the thick of it in the Yankee thread is also absent since then either. ....

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yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan
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2007-01-08          138564


Wingwiper's last post pretty much indicated that he was leaving TP.

I didn't think Mark and Randy were though. I'm sorry now that I didn't get into those posts and TP and BarrelPoint. I have allot of respect and admiration for both of those guys. ....

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DK35vince
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 689 Western,Pa.
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2007-01-08          138575


I've enjoyed reading post from Randy and Mark for a long time now. I also hope to see them come back.
I never read the "yankee" post until now, and never realized there was a problem/battle going on.. ....

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dkheckmanl
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 134 Middleton, ID
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2007-01-08          138576


Hope we havn't lost Mark and Randy. They are two valuable resources.

My Mother taught that if you did not have anything good to say about somebody do not say anything at all but I do have to say that I do not miss WW posts that much. ....

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Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma
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2007-01-08          138577


Yeah, I missed it too. Mark and Randy were some of the first guys I got to know here. Not sure but I think that was back when Murf was MIA due to a heart attack. Anyway, it's a shame that it came down to this. Hopefully they'll be back. Both are stand up guys.

Dennis I know you don't believe in moderating but maybe you should? Like get a couple of members to give you a heads up when something like this is going on. ....

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2694 NorthWest NJ
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2007-01-08          138580


Actually Randy and Mark were two of the TP members that in the past let me know if they thought something was getting out of hand.

....

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SG8NUC
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 579 g
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2007-01-08          138588


All three of them need to forget it and carry on this is not the first event on TP. Some to this is what made me join. TP is good and fun no harm no fowl. ....

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dsg
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 528 Franklin, Maine
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2007-01-08          138590


I really liked Mark, didn't care much for Chief he was a little over barring and full of himself, but then again I don't think either liked me because I don't believe in GOD.

David ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2007-01-08          138591


Dennis, I was going to send you a heads-up but figured someone else would. Maybe this is a case where everyone thought someone else would take care of it.

I can see where Mark & Randy are coming from though. TP is a place to come for enjoyment and it's no fun to get involved in an abusive dispute. When it stops being fun the reason for being involved disappears.

I've missed having them around the last few weeks. ....

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2694 NorthWest NJ
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2007-01-08          138592


dsg,

I was hoping we would just move on and not do any character asasinations in the process;)

Hey with your comment if I know Randy, I think he would be itching to give you some feedback on it! And I think you would be smarting from the rhetoric. And unfortunately that he said you said flame competition just isn't much fun in the end.

I also think its still too early to say that they won't be back, so let's all be nice to each other for a while.

Dennis ....

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dsg
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 528 Franklin, Maine
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2007-01-08          138595


Exactly why I posted Dennis, I know they can't resist. ....

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2694 NorthWest NJ
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2007-01-08          138598


You are a sharp one dsg rofl ....

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ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 762 Kingston, NY
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2007-01-08          138599


I think they might just be taking a break. But I agree that there must be some systematic way to prevent excessive negative overload. Maybe some sort of block or warn function that can be invoked by any member which gets summed up over time and monitored by Dennis. I know its hard to find an acceptable way to implement this stuff. I am just thinking out loud. Maybe also a limit to the number of words in a post. ....

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2694 NorthWest NJ
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2007-01-08          138600


crunch I hear you, policing this stuff is such a nuisance, and the censored member also gets offended. May be a neccesity though!

....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2007-01-08          138601


Maybe a 'dart' function. The comedian Gallagher (IIRC) had a skit where drivers would shoot suction cup darts at other drivers who do stupid stuff. Then safe driving became a matter of avoiding the cars with the most darts stuck to it. How about a "virtual dart" that could be fired at a poster to increment a counter a trigger? Then, when the counter exceeded a certain threshold Dennis could be notified. ....

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harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1545 Moravia, NY
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2007-01-09          138605


Add them to the list. TomG departed also because of the same ole stuff.

I see part of the issue is:

Many of the people that post a response have been there and done that.

Others read about it in a book. Have no freaking clue. BUT they are a expert, no matter what part of the world they live in. They come across like a superior being, smarter than anybody else.

Google is a good thing. However nothing beats real experience.

If you read it in a book or search engine save it. The person asking the question can get the same info there also.

Harvey

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ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 762 Kingston, NY
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2007-01-09          138611


Ken, I think you are on the right track. I think this function should be anonymous (counts not displayed to members) and just a way for Dennis to be aware.

Harvey, I don't think opinions by people that use google vs experience bother me so much. How many people are there that have owned or worked on multiple tractors over a long period of time? I think that the dominating long rants is the problem.

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harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1545 Moravia, NY
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2007-01-11          138654


NC you're probably right. What a pain when a good thread goes South.

I am also considering the value of the content vs the out in left field responses plus the fighting at this point.

6-7 years ago when I first started using this site up till a year or 2 or so ago it had great info from experienced input and Dennis along with members kept a pretty tight rein on out of hand posts.

There still are many good members but I can see where some members can get tired of the battling in the long who is right, wrong or smarter posts real quick.

....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5264 South Carolina
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2007-01-11          138660


"NC you're probably right. What a pain when a good thread goes South."

I trust no one is offended by this comment about the above line...sort of humorous when the topic that is being discussed was "what is a ynakee".

Harvey, part of it is the attitude across more than TP, it is so common in many places of our country today. Shootings in our schools just being one such area. It use to be it was okay to be different and people of different thoughts could talk and at least try to understand others. We have got to realize it is ok that we don't agree 100% on many things, but can still not only not be enemies but friends. I surely trust I for one new here in the last two years is not part of the problem. If so suggestions are appreciated.

One thing I do know, it takes two to argue. If someone offends me, I don't have to respond in kind.




....

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2694 NorthWest NJ
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2007-01-11          138671


Over the years TP has been a big part of my life, some would say too much of it. It is funny how reading someones messages for years makes you feel in some way that they are some sort of cyber friend of yours. Perhaps an unrealistic perspective, they come and they go......

I changed the title of this as it really is not about any one person, it never is. I think it would be a good idea that we rate the posts as to whether or not the information contained in the thread is useful.

When I look around the Internet I occasionally bump into the names of members who used to wreak havoc over here on TP, and no surprise I see that there are other former havoc wreaking TP members joining them at the same site. What's that saying ...;)

Anyways, some more moderation is probably in order, I don't like to be missing grass roots members. If anyone wants to be a moderator let me know.




....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2007-01-11          138672


Dennis; Some posts can be intended as a fun thing, but sometimes things are said or references made to a particular ethnic group or lifestyle that gets out of hand, fun is fun but no references should be made of that type. We all know of the trouble makers who regardless of the subject allready know more about it than anyone else and don't hesitete to make that known. This is a wonderfull site that has gained me a lot of information from those who have been there and done that. There is also no need for profanity or name calling here, we all should act like gentelmen, or women. I respond to posts that I really do have the knowledge or experience with the subject to perhaps help someone out. The posts I make usally are the asking of information from folks who do have genuine knowledge, and that is greatly prized by me. Dennis, do what you think is appropiate to control the trouble makers and nuscance posters, everyone has an opinion, and that is their right but sometimes enough is enough. I understand your position on where to draw the line on some of these matters is a tough call. You have did an outstanding job in the past and I urge you to do what you think needs doing and keep a great site going. Yhanks for all you've done. Frank. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7223 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2007-01-11          138673


Dennis, maybe some form of two-fold approach is a better way to do it.

First of all set some ground rules, social groups often have them, this should be no different. One very large old ftraternity I myself belong to has always had a very closely guarded rule, there is no talk of personalities, politics or religion at meetings, take that out of the equation and 89% of the potential for hard feelings and squabling is gone also. It shouldn't be a big issue since this is, after all TRACTOR Point.

Secondly, rather than 'moderators' maybe some ability for a few senior memebers to be able to temporarily suspend a message, or part of a message until it can be reviewed and / or edited by yourself.

This second concept then greatly reduces the possibility of conflict between the censored party and the 'moderator' doing it.

If you're looking for volunteers, pending how you set it up, I would take a stab at it, but as you already know, I'm only around EST daytime hours.

Best of luck. ....

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2694 NorthWest NJ
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2007-01-11          138679


Murf, I will let you know when I have it set up. Should not take long.

Hardwood thanks for the encouragement.

Dennis ....

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Iowafun
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 955 Central Iowa
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2007-01-11          138683


I have backed off from TP because some of the threads had gotten too attacking. It wasn't light, humorous and informative. I try to keep out of the political and religous topics because they inflame like nothing else.

Sigh... sad to lose those guys, they were fun. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2007-01-11          138684


I'd be willing to attempt moderation. One of the things great about TP is that we can discuss anything here, but sometimes it gets out of hand. So it should be made crystal clear what is and is not allowed. I think political & religious comments should be allowed (meaning that politicians and agendas can be skewered but that posters should be respectful of each other) and that negative personal attacks should be disallowed entirely EVEN in pointless and hostile. Passionate disagreement is fine but personal attacks are not. It can be a fine line but usually is pretty clear. ....

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2694 NorthWest NJ
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2007-01-11          138686


Ken, looks like you should take over Pointless and Hostile and the Just for Fun boards, and we will let Murf keep with the Tractor related Boards, OK?
....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2007-01-11          138687


OK with me. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7223 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2007-01-11          138688


Oh sure, I have to think hard and get my hands dirty, and he gets all the good jokes!!!

MOM!!! She always did like you best!!! ;)

LMAO!!!

Best of luck.

....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2007-01-11          138689


LOL Murf, I was thinking you got the best deal. How hostile are lubrication threads gonna get? Oh, Amsoil. Never mind... :) ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2007-01-11          138690


Dennis; I would be tickled to help out in any way I can, but the sad truth is I simply am not computer literate enough be of much help. I can build a cabinet or fix most anything mechanical, but I was born 25 years too soon to get much into the computer world. I will appluad and encouirage anyone who volunteere to help you out, I would really be sad to not see the messages on TP. Ftrank. ....

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BillMullens
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 649 Central West Virginia
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2007-01-11          138693


I don't stop by here as much as I used to, but do miss Mark and Chief.

Did we find out what happened to TomG?

Bill ....

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2694 NorthWest NJ
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2007-01-11          138694


Bill,

TomG left around the time George W. Bush won his first term in office. I think Tom was strongly anti war, he may have moved to Canada because of this. Anyway I think that the sentiments on TP were leaning more to the republican side at the time, and this was too much for Tom.

As Murf said bring Religion and Politics into the mix and you lose your fun loving, help giving tractor friends ;)

Dennis

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BillMullens
Join Date: Jun 2000
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2007-01-11          138698


I realized TomG's political leanings, but I don't think he expressed them much here. I enjoyed his contributions.

I try not to post about topics that I am either ignorant of, or hold strong opinions that I can't back up with facts. So that rules out politics, religion and pickup trucks.

Bill ....

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2694 NorthWest NJ
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2007-01-11          138702


Ken and Murf,

I set this up as fast as possible, so we may need to make this better over time. You are now set up with moderator access where you can edit message content or add a moderator note.

You will see a "Moderator Edit" link on each message. You can only edit message numbers greater 138000.

I suggest if you add notes to the bottom do it like this for in line with Square brackets around your comment. You can also put messages into the proper forum if they are not classified correctly on the edit post page.

[Murf Moderator deleted improper language]

Hope this is helpful, might be more power than you bargained for, let me know

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
[Murf moderator]
The actual width of a L3710 loader is 60"


Dennis
....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2007-01-11          138705


That looks like it will work. Hopefully we can stay on track here and only the original posters will ever have to edit their posts. I will confine myself to to P&H and Just for Fun. Is that enforced? ....

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2694 NorthWest NJ
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2007-01-11          138707


Ken,

No it is not controlled right now, please feel free to go elsewhere if you see content that could benefit from activity. Should we have more participants in this we could make so we don't step all over each other.

Dennis ....

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cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1307 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
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2007-01-11          138710


Mark, Chief, TomG? I can't believe it, great guys and even better posters!

Dennis, I am willing to help in any way possible. Let me know. ....

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
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2007-01-11          138711


Ok,

Here we go we have the following Moderators which have full site privileges below are the focus areas:

John Deere -- Billy Passmore, kwschumm

Kubota -- Murf, cutter

Pointless and Hostile -- kwschumm

Billy, Ken, cutter and Murf can take action anywhere on the site these are just suggested breakdowns. We could really use someone for New Holland I suppose as well, guess we'll see how it goes.

One part of moderation would also include being a catalyst for dialog. Please feel free to start topics if you like.

I probably need to do something to identify you as a moderator, probably add something to your Avatar if you have one.

Thanks,

Dennis ....

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bvance
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 280 The Great Pacific NorthWet, Olympia, WA
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2007-01-11          138718


Dennis and Others:

I really appreciate what you are all doing. I am an active "listener" but a fairly rare poster. You are doing the right thing.

I once tried to come to Mark's rescue in the "You Gotta love them Democrats" and then got promptly blasted as I knew I would but I really thought Mark needed some moral support.....We need him back.

I think now would be a good time for you Dennis or someone else that may have access to his e-mail and let him know what has been done to better monitor more civil behaviour on this great site. I hope that when Mark knows the action that has been taken, he will be willing to come back....I, like many others have benefited greatly from his advice and observations.

Keep up the good work Dennis and all of you that have volunteered your valuable time to make this site even better.

Brian ....

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ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 762 Kingston, NY
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2007-01-12          138726


This will be an interesting test and most difficult for the moderators. Does this mean that NO religion or political discussion will be tolerated? How much heated discussion is allowed before the discussion is censored? Will censorship be applied equally to long time members as to new (remember the above comment about it takes 2 to tango)? I would have voted for a programmatic method like the one Ken suggested. However this is the most efficient and has many benefits. Benevolent dictatorships (whoops - politics!) are the best form of government they say :). Good luck to the moderators!! ....

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Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999
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2007-01-12          138730



That's some good questions, ncrunch32! Until we get some kind of guidelines to work by, I guess we'll play it by ear. I think everyone can tell when a thread is headed south. Maybe as moderators we can change it's course before it goes to far. Arguing about something is one thing but when the cussing and name calling starts, that's something else. And yes, everyone will be treated the same.

Billy
....

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cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000
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2007-01-12          138731


I believe we are on the right track. No need to limit topics or discussions as long as they are respectful and decent. I debate politics all the time but some people can not do it without taking issues personally. That generally results in a thread going downhill fast, with name calling and foul language.

A warning to the offender should be sufficient. If the activity continues, then further action is warranted on the part of the moderators.

Does that sound about right? ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2007-01-12          138733


I think Billy and Cutter have it right, I think the key is the words "discussion" and "arguement".....

Discussion should be encouraged, but we're all big boys, there really isn't a need to argue, certainly no room for personal attacks or course language or sentiments.

When I mentioned 'no talk' of politics or religion it was merely in reference to another organization, the thought is if the topics never come up, the line between discussion and arguement can never be crossed with them either.

I think Cutter brings up an excellent point, Dennis, is there some way that the Moderators can have access to *all* email contact addresses so that a friendly reminder can be sent when something starts going the wrong direction, or do you want to handle that for us?

I don't know about a dictatorship, I would hope moderation will seldom if ever, be needed. Editing maybe, or correction possibly, but not censorship.

Best of luck. ....

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AV8R
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 882 North Central Wisconsin
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2007-01-12          138745


Boy, things have sure changed around here lately... ....

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Blueman
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 243 Washington, PA
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2007-01-12          138746


AV8R, haven't heard from you in a while....so, the change, are you speaking of "positive" change??? ....

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AV8R
Join Date: Oct 2003
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2007-01-12          138747


The site looks beautiful. (Nice job, Dennis.)

Sounds like some of the interactions have become a little less "beautiful" shall we say... Too bad.

Now, if I can only find the avatar controls to put up my pic.


(No internet at the new house. That's why my website is gone, too. I can only cheat breifly from work now.) ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
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2007-01-12          138751


Is there is a way a post could be pulled while a person is asked if they realize what they have written might be a way to keep from offending someone who in the heat wrote something otherwise they would not have. At same time as Murf said, we are suppose to be big boys (and girls) here. Matter of fact there are some gentlemen and ladies here.

I often check TP, but you moderators, guess it will always be on for you. WIsh you well. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2007-01-12          138756


AV8R, contact Dennis, avatars are not a DIY project.

Kenneth, for the interim, the easiest way may be to contact a moderator who can edit the post to a blank, then re-post the edited version later after you have had time to consider things.

Cut & paste is a wondeful thing..... ;)

Best of luck. ....

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
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2007-01-12          138757


AV8R,

I can make one of the that Harley if you like.

Dennis
....

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Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999
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2007-01-12          138759


Kenneth, It wouldn't be a problem if the offending post is caught in time. That is before the one that might be offended reads it. Once that happens, it's hard to overcome. As Murf said, we could edit the post to a blank and go from there.

That's where we are going to need everyone's help. If someone comes across a post of this nature, feel free to contact a moderator ASAP. The quicker we can take care of it, the less damage it'll do. ....

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Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999
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2007-01-12          138760


Nice to have you back AV8R. Don't let work keep you away ;) ....

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Billy
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2007-01-12          138762


There's something else I think would be good. I noticed Dennis added an email link under the moderators' name. By the way, Dennis, that doesn't work. :-( But I'm thinking it would be better if all moderators were notified at the same time with a one click email/PM. This would cover for a moderator that might not be around in time. Just a thought.

Billy ....

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cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000
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2007-01-12          138764


I like that idea Billy. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2007-01-12          138765


Me three!! ;) ....

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
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2007-01-12          138767


It works now, thanks Billy

Dennis ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2007-01-12          138783


With all the different opinions, backgrounds, life experiences, professions, ages and what have you---there is bound to be clashing to one extent or another. To me this is the perfect blend and adds a little spice to life.

And besides no man is an island.

A wise friend told me that opinions are like a-----s (you know whats)---everyone has one and they all stink.

Reminds years ago when I looking for a church to make my home (figurativley speaking). The pastor said, "If you looking for the perfect church please don't join ours" He meant it to be taken two ways: "We're not perfect to begin with, so don't get your expectations up and join us". OR, "YOU'RE not perfect so don't join us"

But I'm jis' sayin' ....

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Ducati996
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2007-01-15          138816



Joining this late but observed while it was in motion, I do find it surprising that folks find it startling that the membership has dropped - I think just having a thread called "pointless and hostile" pretty much sums it up.
In my opinion it’s always a recipe for disaster - and as true in life, sometimes you get what you asked for. This site is not alone in discovering a membership drop off in direct relation in having a religion & politics, or a down right "pointless and hostile" thread. The problem is easy to see and identifiable. I’m surprised that site likes this and others didn’t address it immediately once the link was positively identified.
I have been around for a good amount of time and I used to freely contribute in both time and membership. I have since stopped for sometime already not by accident. It is was it is until things change I guess...just my .02 worth

Duc
....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2007-01-15          138818


Didn't want to say it myself. Ducati is 100% right. It's one thing for a bunch of buddies to sit around and shoot the bull and voice opinions with no worry of repercussions or insulting jabs.

That said, it's another thing to invite any and all to the party. To me that's what I call a "drive-by"---as in drive-by shooting.

IMHO, the "hostile" thread shouldn't be available on any level. I'd like to look in my crystal ball and say or predict what could/should/will happen, but my gut feeling is the tone of all the posts will become more positive and conducive to offering more solid information. Of course there will always be people like myself and a few other regulars who will add some color; on a certain level this IS a form of entertianment. But if one is looking for strictly information then probably the dealer or the library would best suit them.

But I'm jis' sayin'. ....

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cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000
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2007-01-15          138825


I can see both of your points however I disagree to a small extent. I am sure Dennis selected that name tongue-in-cheek and expected anyone with a brain to figure that out. I, probably much like Dennis, never gave the "hostile" a second thought in that cranially-challenged individuals would go in there with the intention of degrading and insulting members of this board.

Seems a shame these days everything need be based upon the lowest common denominator. I suppose if he named it "Off Topic, Unoffensive, Politically Correct, Gender Neutral Discussion of Diverse Ideas we may have gotten the idea across to everyone. You all needed a laugh didn't ya! ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2007-01-15          138826


For those who weren't here then, pointless and hostile began as a place where threads that were degrading into hostility were banished. I don't think Dennis intended it to be a place where conversation took place. Then people started using it as a place to rant. That's OK, folks need to get things off their chest from time to time. Then the hostility sort of migrated out of their into other forums. That's when it got out of control. ....

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dsg
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 528 Franklin, Maine
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2007-01-15          138827


This is a tractor forum. If you can't control your Religion or Political views you shouldn't be here. Just because you have FIVE tractors under your name doesn't mean you are an expert. If you acquired those FIVE tractors in a short term, it means you like to talk a lot.

David ....

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
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2007-01-15          138828


Thanks for clearing the air on that one Ken. I even went through the extra work of excluding the banished content from "Pointless and Hostile" from the "messages as posted" page. Therefore if you were reading "Pointless and Hostile" then you had to be looking for it.

It was never the intention that we were looking for new Pointlees posts, it was the place I could put content rather than censor members messages.

I don't have much use for this type of thing. It is ironic that some of the most acrid exchanges were between members who apparently were sensitive to these bitter barbs.

The problem with the posts by some even on Tractor content can be when someone not only gives their thoughts on a topic, but then points out that another poster does not know that much, thus making it a personal attack. This is what we want the moderators to remove from message content. Hopefully things will be better this way.

Dennis ....

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Oliver
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 210 Massachusetts
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2007-01-15          138829


I just finished reading the thread -- interesting. I don't contribute much, but have learned a great deal. I dropped out for a long time because it seemed that there are (a) fewer posts and posters, and (b) posts are less-helpful to me -- there are fewer posts about "how-to" projects (like the Murphy pipe or ways to remove old posts -- and more posts that are nothing more than pointless arguments.

I came back because I had a question about the 3ph on my Kubota. It was answered promptly by a few people who had good suggestions -- that was worth my $20 annual fee.
....

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ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 762 Kingston, NY
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2007-01-16          138839


It had occured to me that the Pointless and Hostile thread should be renamed "Pointless" now that no more hostile content will be there ;) ....

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ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2007-01-16          138840


Dsg, I am sensitive :) to your post since I am one of those 5 tractor experts that has little knowledge about tractors. I acquired my 5 tractors by occasionally commenting on things I do know about so it is usually not about tractors. I hear lots of people here make this same complaint. They don't want to hear from people that don't have "real" experience. On the other hand there is occasionally enough tractor knowledge you might gather from other folks here to answer a quick question for a "passer-by". Sometimes it may be good to say ANYTHING when things slow down. And I think it is up to the reader to decide what information is useful.

Even if I knew the world about tractors I don't know that I could speak full time about them as many here can. I can only answer the same question maybe 50 times then I begin to get tired. I usually change my job every 5 years at my company - I am now on my 7th job. I think the thing that binds people together here is not only tractor knowledge, but a sense of comraderie that comes from the fact that we all own tractors. It usually takes a special type of person to like that type of connection to the earth. But as we have found out there is no limit to the political or religious leanings of us all.

But I'm jis ;) rambling on in the middle of the night . . . ....

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cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000
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2007-01-16          138844


Thanks for mentioning that; I do recall the reason for the pointless topic now. Man that was some time ago...

Crunch, how well put your thoughts are even for the middle of the night! ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2007-01-16          138860


Dennis, the "email (username)" function doesn't work for me, I even tried logging out and back in, all I get is a message that says I have to be an Admin. to use it.

Is it me or a code problem?

Best of luck. ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
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2007-01-16          138862


ncrunch, I admit this is not alwasy correct but in my business an expert is a person from out of town with a brief case.

Many of my questions don't need an expert, why even EW has help me out a time or two. Don't think DSG meant it quite the way it reads. At same time sure am glad for the true "experts" here who give so much.


....

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
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2007-01-16          138864


Murf,

I think I have fixed this now. Let me know.

Do the moderators want to get emailed copies of any moderator email?

Dennis ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2007-01-16          138865


It works now Dennis, thanks.

Maybe there's a way to make a sort of Moderators Forum where the messages to and from the mod.'s all show up, that way any of us can have a peek without getting a stream of emails on a regular basis?

I'm thinking it should be reasonably easy to have the system just ghost every PM there, rather than have it BCC each email to all the moderators.

What does everyone else want? Ideas?

Best of luck. ....

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Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999
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2007-01-16          138866


Heck if I know, this is all new to me. I was thinking on the lines of something like a "Notify Moderator" link. This way every moderator will get info on any reported bad posts.

The way it is now is if Murf is out of town and someone was to notify him of a bad post, no moderator know about it.

You could leave it the same but just add a Notify Moderator link...

Moderator Edit
Email Murf
Notify Moderator

Or you could substitute the Notify Moderator for Email...

Moderator Edit
Notify Moderator

Whatever you all decide on is fine with me ;-)

....

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Billy
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2007-01-16          138867


By the way, Dennis. I have two Email Billy? I know I'm a big guy but I think one would do ;-)

Premium Member


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Email Billy
Moderator Edit
Email Billy

....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2007-01-16          138872


Kenny: Though I'm not an expert here on TP... I play one in real life hahahaha

Is this thing on? (tap tap tap)

(crickets chirping)

A-n-y-w-h-o...where I'm from an "expert" is a "former drip"---- Kenny for you that's former like ex and drip like spurt or spert as in this case. (yup yankee humor--or lack of)

But I'm jis' TRYIN' to say :) ....

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cutter
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2007-01-16          138874


I like Murf's idea for keeping us all in the "loop" so to speak as long as there is some sort of notification method to flag us that new information is available. If it comes as individual e-mails, so be it. I doubt they will be so many in number as to be cumbersome.

My e-mail link works now too! Thank you Dennis. ....

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
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2007-01-16          138875


I think Murf's idea is the best should we get a lot of volume, it is the most complex for me to implement though but doable.

The easiest to put something in place quickly is the group email based on the moderator message to member with the problem post, so I think we will try this first.

Dennis ....

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Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999
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2007-01-16          138884


Now my email link doesn't work. It says "Only TractorPoint Moderators can use this Messaging System" :-( ....

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DennisCTB
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2007-01-16          138885


Billy, got that, you changed your member name, that is fixed now. ....

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SG8NUC
Join Date: Jan 2006
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2007-01-22          139040


Just back from being sick, I have read this entire post and it reminds me of the book Animal Farm. One thing nice about TP is truth as they see it whether it be Wing Wiper, Mark, Chief or whoever and the FREEDOM to express it without a bunch of rules or dispatchers (PIGS) regulating what grown men should be able to do on their own. Please Dennis this site is as much entertainment as informative. You cant have this much fun watching TV. Those guys added a big part to this Site I enjoyed reading the post whether about tractors or not. I had my round with WW and he is abusive and set in his ways we all have a little of that. The bottom line is I had fun. Like Will Rodgers I have not met anyone on TP that I didnt like, That Bob Adame, I think was his name, he was a tough pill to swallow. They should all come back and express their views and I will read them and be entertained.

Just my thoughts ....

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cutter
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2007-01-23          139051


In no way do I see that freedom changing :) on this board, but there is always that tiny minority that do not possess an ability to express ideas civilly. ....

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Murf
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2007-01-23          139057


I agree with Cutter.

IMHO, there is a big difference between 'entertainment' or 'discussion' and plain out fighting.

From my point of view, I have absolutely NO intention of "regulating what grown men should be able to do on their own.".

However, like with anything else, there is an appropriate place for everything, and a lot of inappropriate places too. I don't expect any one of us would tolerate a bunch of shouting and cussing and personal attacks between members of the congregation during a church service, nor should we have to.

People who want to act in such a manner are free to do so, but in an appropriate place. This is NOT that place, IMHO.

I trust everyone will agree they came here for civil talk about tractors and the odd wander off into other interesting topics.

Best of luck. ....

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SG8NUC
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2007-01-23          139076


MURF,

Please look up the words pointless and hostile. If I want preaching I will go to church and behave in the house of god. I do hope you dont consider TP to be a temple maybe that is what the "T' stands For. My point is dont saddle a dead horse those guys left of their own accord hopefully the rest will conduct ourselves a more civil manner. I welcome each and everyone of them back. I got good advice from all of their inputs some funny and some would stir you up YOU yourself have fenced with abusive elements on TP. Shoulder the load and get on with life is what I say to them shake hands and move on. I have enough rules, that is why I dont live in a subdivision, any more. I like the adversity on this site it makes you think, if you get mad the other side wins. Very seldom did I agree with WW and was always trying the lighten the sitiuation up but I do like to push buttons and the limits. If not I would not have bought a tractor and keep the wheelbrow. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2007-01-23          139077


SG: Okay where's SG and what have you done with him?

Sounds like yer having a bad day, eh bud?

This isn't the same SG we have come to like and appreciate.

C'mon gimme a hug, you ol' lug. We still luv ya. ....

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
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2007-01-23          139079


We no longer have a "Pointless and Hostile" board. I changed it to "Current Events Health and Happiness". How is that for warm and fuzzy, I have also started to delete the overtly negative threads in there as well.

So lets talk about life and gallbladders in that board all in a civil manner, then while we have plenty of moderators we also will probably have almost no moderation at all to do!

We are abandoning the practice of banishing inflammatory junk to a "Pointless and Hostile" board.

Dennis ....

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Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999
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2007-01-23          139081


SG8NUC,

To start off with, I don't see the big deal?

This whole moderator idea wasn't meant for 99.99% of the posters here. Every once in a while, TP will get a (for a lack of a better word) trouble maker. Most of the time it's just someone that likes to argue. When it gets to be a problem is when it gets personal.

When Dennis created the Pointless and Hostile forum, he was hoping it wouldn't be used. He was actually condoning it. It didn't work out as planned.

[DennisCTB] clarification I did not condon it, just a temporary bucket prior to deletion, in an attempt to discourage acrid exchanges not encourage them! [/DennisCTB] ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2007-01-23          139084


SG, I think the problem is merely a misunderstanding.

I agree with the principles of what you are saying. However, you haven't been a member of this group long enough to know the origins of the "Pointless and Hostile" board.

It was never meant as an active area of discussion, it was a place to bury threads that went downhill and degraded from a usefull and informative discussion to personal attacks and merely mud-slinging.

Dennis, presumabely not wanting to either censor nor delete threads, did his best to find a compromise. That compromise was the Pointless & Hostile board. It was hidden in that a search didn't bring it up, nor did it show up in the Recent Posts list.

It was never meant to be a fight club.

You are absolutely correct, I have sparred on occasion, I don't suffer fools gladly. However, I believe if you surf through ALL of my exchanges, you will find not one single attack on anyone. That's not my style.

I do not wish to tell anyone how to act or what to say or not say. By the same token, I don't want someone "peeing in the pool" if I'm going to swim there too......

BTW, I think if you look back over all the posts, nobody has set out any rules or limits. A few, myself included, have made suggestions, and nothing more, of some ideas that might help everyone "conduct ourselves a more civil manner.".

Discussion is a good thing, debating makes you think, forces you to look at other sides and reason them out.

Fighting serves no usefull purpose that I can see.

Best of luck.

[self edit: In God knows how many years I've been here now, I think there has only been 4 or 5 threads that got so bad as to warrant intervention of any kind. In most cases where things started to go downhill a few members stepped in and a few words of guidance cooled things off.] ....

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SG8NUC
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2007-01-23          139095


Murf,

I was not saying that your retorts have been hostile or mean just the point that we all fence. You do have a special style and carry yourself well, a single tear runs down my cheek. I have not been a member for very long you are correct but just the same I am a paid member. There is alot of dust on this bottle and a few scratches. If someone can benefit from my experences then I have reached my goal. I have benefited several times from TP. If I can remember correctly you may have been the WISE OLD OWL on a few of those :-)

My resquest it that TP not change, if a few people have a tat so be it. I like the adversty. I am sorry I was not here during the "THINGY" days that must have been a hoot. Dennis XXXed that one out.

Billy,

It is not a big deal I would rather it not change. Read some of the old posts they are a riot.

EW,
You are still the Smartest Man I know or was that MURF, or Brokenarrow, cheif, WW, Annbush, Beagle, KT, KW, Peters, Dr, oneace even Dennis he started all of this. So many scholars here. Information with a tiwst comes real fast here, faster than when granny fell in the water barrel head first with no pantys on. At 7 years old that may have been a littl to much information. My Fathers, Granny's got dual exhaust.

just my thoughts ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2007-01-23          139096


SG: No, YOU are the wiseassed man I know. :)

You said Dennis (of CTB fame---the Owner)---don't you mean Denis (a member)?

I'm jis' tryin' to keep ya honest.

That grandma-and-the-panties thingy: Come, (pat, pat) sit on my couch here. Let's talk. So...how did that make you feel? (I'm not a therapist but I play one on the Web) LOL ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
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2007-01-23          139097


I had decided to stay away form this thread as I don't like controversy, I have no time for name calling or abusive languge by anyone anytime here on TP or anywhere else for that matter. So the simpilest solution to any abusive posters is simply don't respond to them, all they want is attention anyway, if no one responds they will just go away. Please SN8 just drop it and lets go on with life. FrANK. ....

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earthwrks
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2007-01-23          139099


Frank, forgive me :) LOL, but by posting that last reply, that DOES make you a part of it. :)

It's all in fun.

Let's all sing along "Kume-by-ya, kume-by ya..."

....

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2007-01-23          139102


sounded abusive to me I am hurt. LOL....

EW,

Just where is that couch, and do you have a big screen. I am a colts fan. ....

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earthwrks
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2007-01-23          139104


SG: (in the voice of the infamous sexologist Dr. Ruth) Go ahead caller, vaht is your dysfunction?

And it's a "virtual couch" but I'll need your "actual insurance card", buddy :) Visa/MC accepted ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2007-01-24          139130


SG, thanks for the kind words......

Frank, unfortunately not everyone always has as level a head or even temper as the rest.

EW, I think you been down there too long, trolling for fellers to sit next to you on the couch now? Hmmmm, and you did have that "You sure do have a pretty mouth....." line down cold too.........

But I'm jiss noticin' is all..... ;)


Best of luck. ....

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AnnBrush
Join Date: Mar 2004
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2007-01-24          139135


To get back to the original topic - here are some observations on membership:

The majority of the REGULAR posters on this board have been around CUT's for some time now. As a result there is not much new tractor stuff to discuss - been there done that. This group of folk is also quite tight knit (in a virtual sense) for example some of you know one anothers real names etc. This makes the board less about tractors and more about the people on it.

This can have the following effects:
Messages are more personal in nature and have more opinion expressed than would otherwise be apparent. This can lead to more disruptive discussion as people weave their opinions into the posts. This attribute makes the board less attractive for new members and folk with dissenting views on the topics discussed. For example discussions on how to store your tractor safely degenerate into discussions on gun control and politics and this really decreases the value of the forum. Take a look at the topics recently posted and ID which of those really have tractors at the core of the discussion - it's less than what it should be.

The inclusion of "experts" on the board is a double edged sword - while they have lots of valuable information to contribute there is also a certain amount of objectivity lost when the experts weigh in on matters they are not experts in - their positions can be viewed to be absolute - and due to their position the reply to the post question or comment becomes "expert" dominant - this is not a good environment for civil discussion. The non-expert input on any issue (especially issues where the experts are not experts) can be repressed.

For me this board has been less rewarding (I still stop by every so often but it's much less than I used to) over the past year - for the following reasons:
Many of the posts stray off topic.
Many of the posts become personal.
I am more familiar with my own CUT and as a result rely less on the forum.
Because I am not viewed as an expert I feel my contributions to the board are not valued to the extent that I can justify taking the time and effort to contribute.
Going out on a limb here: The board is supposed to be about tractors but if your not a gun owning, Christian white male living on a farm or huge estate youre not going to feel a lot of comraderie - for me this translates to even less reason to participate.

The moderators idea is a good one. However I dont think the choice of using the experts as moderators was good, they are generally too central to the discussion to provide sufficient impression of objectivity - I'm not volunteering here though. But before we institute moderators we should first have some posting rules pinned to the top of each forum - simply putting them up will help keep the posts on topic and avoid conflict - it would also provide the moderators with a basis for doing what ever they decide to do in terminating posts etc.

Well thats enough from me. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2007-01-24          139136


Ann, as usual, you make some very good points.

Definitely some food for thought there. I like your idea about some form posted information about posting. I will respectfully disagree that they should be rules though.

IMHO and experience, they will get respected far more if they are 'strongly suggested guides to proper etiquette' for the board rather than hard and fast rules.

I for one am truly sorry you feel the way you do, although we have certainly disagreed on some topics in the past, I believe you are a very intelligent and well-read person, who has some very good information and opinions. I often read your posts for no reason other than the fact they are yours. Gender has no bearing on that.

Best of luck. ....

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DenisS
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 367 NJ
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2007-01-24          139146


It's a damn shame that Mark and Chief and Eric are gone. I hope they do come back at some point. ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
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2007-01-24          139147


In reading how post vary off topic, how far off topic is acceptable on any topic? I asked about wear of R 1 tires on paved roads, would it have been acceptable for someone to have asked if the same advice pertained to say turf tires? Or should that person have started a totally new discussion? For some of us, the topic is broader than the way others may perceive it to be.

The question on how to cut Plexiglas was off topic I assume when how to DRILL holes and BEND it was discussed, but it sure was informative to me if no one else. Something else that shows up here often is one saying you either can not or should not do something a certain way. That could be either due to their experience or training. Then someone else comes back with, it will work that way or within this settings. There normally is more than one tool that will do the job.

I hope I am expressing this point correctly also, if you only listen to people who agree with you or don't present another point of view, you will learn much less, if anything new.


If I might add, is it possible there are more discussions on none tractor topics as it is being learned there are experts on other matters than just tractors? When you learn to trust someone in one area, it is natural to trust their advice in another. The danger is as AB pointed out, you assume they know as much in each area. But I think most here do a good job of pointed out, just my opinion or such. And that isjust my opinion. kt




....

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kthompson
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2007-01-24          139153


DenisS, are the one who use to be horsefarmer? If so hope all is going well. ....

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cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000
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2007-01-24          139154


I agree with Murf, rules are something I would not like to see and in my view would drive people away. I belong to other boards (unrelated to tractors) and to be perfectly honest this one is leaps and bounds above them for it's lack of "snobbery" or gender abuse. This was one friendly board when I joined years ago and in my view it remains so.

I am no tractor expert, but have through my life's experience, acquired knowledge about many things that may be useful to other members. How often has anyone had a face to face conversation with a friend about just one thing? Try that with your neighbor sometime, doesn't work, so "Off Topic" to me is something better enforced at a board meeting. The only thing I take issue with is when someone becomes abusive or disrespectful.

We do not need to regulate to accommodate the lowest common denominator that might show up here. If and when it occurs, that particular individual will be the focus.

Just my two cents :)

....

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SG8NUC
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2007-01-24          139157


Cutter, Annbush, and KT,

You are the smartest people I know well said and expressed. TP is the greatest and by far the best site. well worth my Fees. ....

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bvance
Join Date: Jul 2004
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2007-01-24          139163


As a happy TP member for only about 2 years, I would like to weigh in with my thoughts for what they are worth....

Occasionally folks involved in a certain thread do go off topic but is that much different than a group of friends or relatives sitting around the front room talking? We go off topic, sometimes someone brings us back on, sometimes we just all go with the new topic and what's the harm. If we don't enjoy where the topic is going, we can try to change it and if we can't we might get up, leave the room and go get a beer from the fridge. Isn't that OK?

Sometimes we might find ourselves in a real life conversation where everyone knows each other quite well except we are the "outsider". Maybe we are uncomfortable and may not enter into the conversation, but often times the discussion is interesting enough just to listen and not engage. Sometimes we engage and pretty soon we are "part of the group".

Isn't it always our choice as to how we allow others to effect out thinking and behaviour? Aren't most problems in this world today caused by overactive imaginations and hyper sensitivities? I absolutely agree there have been some posting and threads that have gone overboard and need to be controlled and I agree in the general direction this board is taking to control some of these out of line threads. And I have confidence they will use the appropriate judgment when exercised that will not ruin this board but actually will make it a better place.

On the other hand, I think we all need to desensitize ourselves just a bit, allow for a few off topic posts, a few "buddies" to have some good natured banter and folks to offer their thoughts and opinions without undue concerns.

This is a great board where I can get a few laughs, some good information and just enjoy the conversations, off topic or not.

Let's all continue to try to improve it, shrug our collective shoulders once in a while and move on when we find something mildly disagreeable. We can easily leave the room, but let's not leave the house. We will all suffer if that happens.

Brian ....

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ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2007-01-25          139174


There is a lot of truth in Ann's comments. What we have here are lots of experts talking to other experts. Although everyone wants only expert opinions voiced here, what we need are tractor dummies like myself who ask dumb questions that the experts can answer. That is where the market niche is, dumb city folks who buy tractors.

I made 5 tractors here asking dumb questions. It was a surprise to me! Like Ann says, after a while you all answered my questions until I had no more questions to ask. There should be a distiction between expert tractors and dummy tractors. I clearly deserve 5 dummy tractors. Well - at least maybe I am now an expert with my own tractor until it breaks.

We need to attract more dummies with more questions for the experts to answer. To do that we need to accept and welcome non-tractor talk for tractor owners who have no more immediate tractor questions. I for one find this a great escape from the world of computers and business at the end of the day.

Edit / Maybe this site should be organized differently where there is an expert corner and a tractor owner corner - just food for thought / edit ....

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earthwrks
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2007-01-25          139175


WARNING: OFF TOPIC ALERT

bvance: You are very much a Statesman; may I ask what you do for a living?

WARNING EXPIRED

IMHO there is no such thing as an "expert"--whether here or in life in general. There is always someone who knows a little more than you, lived a longer than you, and done it a different way than you (wow I sound like my dad now), and had a little more fun than you doing it, and did it cheaper than you. I've worked for and with so-called experts and invariably we each brought something to the table that the other didn't have. But that's life ain't it?

No man is an island.

I like bvance's reply. He's dead-on in my opinion. When this site becomes a board for strictly asking questions and no one can go off topic, then that falls under the category of DRUDGERY. Or a newspaper column. Or pay-by-the hour mechanic (some of my best friends are mechanics)

Those of us who are familar of "shop talk" or worked in a shop, know how things can get out of hand, but like bvance said, we are all friends---some have known each other longer and more intimately than others (and yes, Ann I realize this a sticking point with you, but that's the way it is).

Each of us come here for different reasons. For me it's an opportunity to "meet" others with semi-similar backgrounds--or not. Or "meet" others from the other parts of the globe. And I've come know some upstanding, nay outstanding people.

WARNING: OFF TOPIC ALERT
Even SG ('cuz he's got a purty mouth---as Murf would say). And that wasn't off-topic 'cuz the MODERATOR brought it up.

But I'm jis' defending myself.

Murf: That couch was adjacent my therapist chair for the record.

WARNING EXPIRED
It just occurred to me that what we are doing here on TP is a modern version of farmers talking over the fence, or going into town and talking to parts guy at the local tractor dealership, or the feed store (who remembers those?) You know yer gettin' old when you start asking things like that. ....

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bvance
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2007-01-25          139176


EW,

Thanks for your kind comments. I don't mind answering your question as to what I do for a living, but I do ask that you brace youself! I am the president of a local community bank.

Now please, before you and everyone out there crucify me :) I fully realize that on the food chain of slime balls, bankers are on the bottom of the chain just one rung above attorneys....and I apolgize even to some of the attorneys out there because bankers may even be on the bottom rung at times.

Before I became a banker 30 years ago, I was born and raised on a working cattle ranch in Southern Idaho. That's where I learned how to work and possibly a little common sense and maybe even a little something about people....and then I became a banker and instantly in many peoples eyes, a lost cause. It's funny isn't it how we judge folks by their cover.

That's OK, because I'm just a simple country banker trying to enjoy life...

Brian ....

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ncrunch32
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2007-01-26          139178


Bvance - Geez, another tractor guy stuck in the world of business :) EW - I always feel better after reading your posts. Maybe we should create a new forum called "Late Night Tractor Psychiatry". Or how about "Tractor Philisophy"? You know, subjects like how many of you have actually bought a small toy replica of your big tractor? (I have) Or do you dream of driving your tractor during your sleep? (Ditto)

I must say though that being a dummy has its advantages. Once you accept that you are a dummy there is no place to go but up. And if one accepts the fact that there are dummies then there must be experts ;) ....

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kyvette
Join Date: Feb 2004
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2007-01-26          139179


Bvance, don't be down on your profession, we need bankers and over the years I have know several excellent individuals who were bankers. I also know a few quality attorneys, a couple are friends.

Now politicans, that is another story.

I'm an engineer and we mostly conflict with attorneys and architects.

Dave ....

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Murf
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2007-01-26          139180


BVance, I'm with Dave (KYVette), I know some really fine people who are bankers, I even have a friend who is (GASP!!) a lawyer!!! ;) LMAO!!

In fact my banker friend moved to the country and bought a tractor because he was so impressed with the difference between city & country life after visitng me at home a few times.

I myself, like Dave, am an engineer by training.

Jeff, the local hardware / feed store near my place renovated a few years back, near the front window on one side they installed a corn / pellet stove and a few chairs and stools. Most days there's a few old-timers, and a couple of younger fellas like myself installed in those chairs, passin' the time of day and catching up on goings on. I asked the owner one day if he ever calculated how much money he was losing by not having anything for sale in those few square feet. His answer surprised me at first, until I thought about it.

He said he figured he made quite a bit of money off that few feet of 'wasted' floor space!!!

It seems the corn stove was an earnest attempt to save money on heating costs, but the insurance company said he had to have a 8' - 10' clear area to any merchandise, so he thought of putting in a few chairs. Afterwards he realized, by making it a gathering place it brought people in because "they saw old Joe's truck out front" and while they were there, they bought stuff. It got people in the habit of coming in.

Sorry for the off-topic wander.....

Anybody wanna join me over at the feed mill for a coffee? :)

It's almost time for the daily "Joe & Jaw" session.

Best of luck. ....

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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5264 South Carolina
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2007-01-26          139183


Murf, I would say how much money he made from those square feet has a lot to do with how those there treated the younguns and dummies, each I fit in to some degree. Mabye not in years on earth, but in knowledge.

EW, you have to be an "EXPERT" on experts.

BV, there is slime in every pond.

NC, it takes a wise person to know how to make others look good. Does the "experts" send you samples of dumb questions to ask? as someone else says, I'm just asking...

Now, where is that coffee.

Sad, this thread started off for the reason it did, but it may turn out to be the best. ....

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DenisS
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 367 NJ
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2007-01-26          139190


Yes, KT, that be me :)

Just biding my time until the good Lord deems it right for me to get another farm (sorry if I'm getting religious on you - that may be construed as offensive or off topic ;))

I check in every once in a while to see how you guys are doing. I really do hope the missing gentlemen will come back. This site is a lot different from others - it works best when the threads have a free flow. The only problems arise when people without any sense of humor get off on the tangent and stomp their opponents into dirt with longwinded posts. Maybe there should be a special fee on posts over 1 page long...

BTW: I agree with ncrunch: change my tractors to "dummy" tractors :) ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5264 South Carolina
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2007-01-31          139396


DennisS,
Do more than just visit. I probably 110% agree with what you said. Is there a cure for lack of humor? A mirror? Works for me. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2007-01-31          139400


Kenny--the mirror thing---didn't you say you're "funny" lookin' anyway? :)

Feeeel the love, brotha :) ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
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2007-01-31          139403


EW, that is why the mirror gives me a sense of humor. Funny does not come near the full truth. Not close at all. ....

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Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma
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2007-02-02          139468


Dennis and everyone else, In reference to post 139081, I made a typo. When I said "He was actually condoning it", that should have said He wasn't actually condoning it. I tried to go back and edit it but the post is too old.

Sorry about that, Dennis

Billy ....

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DenisS
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 367 NJ
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2007-02-02          139495


KT,

I have to conclude that there's no cure for the lack of humor. In fact, I've been banned from one forum for stepping on the toes of one humorless moderator. :) We're working on the cure in the pharmaceutical industry, but, so far, to no avail.

Anyway, glad to feel welcome around here. ....

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