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jeff r
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2002-10-26          44242


According to AEM, an industry reporting service, said in a Sept issue that Kubota is the #1 compact tractor by sales with an 8.6% increase over last year, John Deere was strong but a far off 2nd and Kioti #3. AEM also said NH was losing ground.

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2002-10-27          44268


Those Kioti numbers do not surprise me. It looks like a great tractor for the money. ....

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DK35vince
Join Date: Feb 2002
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2002-10-27          44272


Kioti has good price and quality.
And with the introduction of mid mount mower on the DK 35 and 40,also the new CK series coming out with optional hydrostat ,Kioti should grow even more! ....

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cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000
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2002-10-27          44273


Here is something to ponder; did N/H lose ground due to a twin that is now available under another name, or some other reason? Did quality play a part in the numbers? Would be interesting to know these things. ....

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Chuck Hakari
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2002-10-27          44275


Is the AEM article online? A new "Big 3" in the compact tractor market...interesting! ....

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dsg
Join Date: Jun 1999
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2002-10-27          44276


Just because it is the # 1 Compact Tractor By Sales, doesn't mean it's the #1 compact tractor.

David ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2002-10-27          44279


Here! Here! For DSG! I agree. The 4000 10 Series JD may cost a little more but they are great little tractors. ....

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jeff r
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2002-10-27          44280


To DSQ and Chief,

Sales numbers don't lie. Kubota is Number 1 whether you think they have a good tractor or not. The simple fact of the matter is if Kubota didn't a have a good tractor with a competitive price and a good customer satisfaction driven dealer network, why are so many people buying them??? Do you think Ford or GM have bad trucks or SUV's with the numbers they sell? GOOD or BAD, something is steering the tractor buyer away from JD and NH??? With my experience this past spring after visiting 80% of the JD dealers's in Southeast and East MI, I think a good bit of JD's problem is dealer ARROGANCE and a take it or leave it, "JD is the ONLY tractor to buy and you are stupid if you don't pay my high price attitude". Somebody prove me wrong. My buying experience was based on visiting over 25 JD dealerships as I stated on another post back in June or May. ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2002-10-27          44284


To Jeff & Anyone Else on this board:

who is READY to buy a tractor NOW. If you want a John Deere and you are READY to buy NOW. Contact me and I will get you in touch with a John Deere dealer who will put you in what you want at a VERY competitive price. Active and retired military get a little better price.

I will say it again! Kubota makes a damn nice little tractor for the money. I own a Kubota. John Deere makes a better one.

If I buy a new tractor, I will buy a JD. NO other manufacturer can come close to the service and support you will get with the Deere. Feature for feature JD is the value product. For the money paid and the service life of the product, again JD is the value product.

Finally, just keep any eye out around your area and see how many tractor dealer stay in business. My bet is that the "Green Paint" will be there long after all the others have gone out of business. In my line of work, I procure equipment for people who can tear up solid steel balls with balsa wood hammers. They have a heck of a time tearing up the green. Nuff said! ....

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DK35vince
Join Date: Feb 2002
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2002-10-27          44285


John Deere and Kubota do make a fine tractor.
My biggest problem with them is if you do tear them up you better have deep pockets for parts. ....

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jeff r
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2002-10-27          44286


HEY Chief,

I wished I would have bumped into you last spring buddy. LOL. I was looking HARD at a JD 790 with Hydro tranny and front loader. Nobody had any around except gear 790s plus it was tough to get a JD dealer/owner or salesman out of his office. In my world I refuse to beg somebody to take my 17,000 grand without some friendly rear kissing. ....

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RandyL
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2002-10-28          44298


Unless I am unaware of changes to the JD product line, you would have to look very hard to find a Hydro 790. They are only offered as gear drive. Jeffr isn't trying to mislead the good readers of this forum with his apparent disdain for JD products is he????????? Always remember, just cause it is in print doesn't mean it is true.
Randy ....

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cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000
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2002-10-28          44301


What is better about the Japanese manufactured JD compact tractors and attachments than the Japanese Kubota and N/H? As the owner of all three brands at different times, I would like someone to clarify that for me because my experience points to good and bad aspects in each brand! ....

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jeff r
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2002-10-28          44302


Cutter,
Good point. ALL are Japenese or foreign tractors, so it must be in the customers perceived perceptions of features, benefits and dealer treatment by JD, NH, and others? Kubota is doing something the customer likes and Kubota is turning it into HARD COLD SALES figures. ....

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jeff r
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2002-10-28          44304


Randy L,

LOL. My point exactly. You make a good point Randy L, that's why Chief didn't bite because they don't make a 790 with hydo!!!! Do you think JD could sell some tractors if they listened to their customers needs, LIKE ME wanting a 790 with hydro? MAYBE a 790 with HYDRO might sell some tractors??? I have owned 2 JD's in the past and I have no disdain for JD, A 2010 diesel and a 4020 diesel and they were both nice tractors. I just think JD and their dealer network have sat on their hindquarters way too long and took their customers for granted while they watched the world go by. The sales figures prove it. ....

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2002-10-28          44308


The numbers say it all. There are many good tractors out there available and to make a purchase of a compact tractor buyers need to beware. There are tractors that will always give you all what you need and then some as well as those that don't. The right salesperson and the right sales canidate can be dangerous for someones fiscal health. Yes, Kubota is number one and has been for years as they have done there homework while building there tractors. The other part is they have been here with the same name for all of those years where some of the others have adopted new names. One thing that I tell all people don't ever compare a 20 year old tractor to a new one as we wouldn't do it to a car why should we do it on tractors. After all, we can learn by other people and that is the best way to learn, it's just cheaper. This doesn't mean we will ever all take the same path we don't have to,and thats what makes America GREAT! ....

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Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999
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2002-10-28          44316


Does it really matter what the number 1 selling compact tractor is?

If you're buying one based on this, then some of you will be very dissatisfied.

Do your homework, buy what will be best for you. It doesn't matter what the other guys say. As long as you are happy.

Billy

....

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RichT
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2002-10-28          44318


Having recently experienced pursuing a new tractor (JD790 vs Kubota BX22), I can offer the following comparison between JD and Kubota customer service - for my case only! Make generalizations at your own risk.

Went to local JD dealer to look at 790. Don't have one, but I have a 990, which was sitting outside, in need of serious cleaning. Can you get a 790 for me to look at? No. Can you locate one so I could look at it? No, heres a pamphlet. Can I get one with backhoe. Gee, I think so... Same feeling I get at DMV when all the "service" folks are too bizzie with breaks and chitchat to bother with a customer. This dealer was the largest in the area and likely does substantial commercial biz.

Went to local Kubota dealer and asked about BX22. Don't have one yet, but lets look at this new, shiny 2200 to illustrate features. 30min later, after fairly comprehensive tutorial on BX series, I asked where can I see one. He retreated to his office and located one 200 mi away. I can have it here tomorrow, he said, and have it completely prepped for a test drive. He did and I did. ....

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Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999
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2002-10-28          44319


Rich, what were your reasons for choosing Kubota over Deere. Was it just the salesperson, ease of sale or the first tractor you got hands on experience with?

Billy ....

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RichT
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2002-10-28          44332


Billy, it was a combination of several things. I already own a JD332 diesel and love it. As I was looking into adding a loader (and even a backhoe), it was obvious that the 332, though a great L&G tractor, is marginally fit for heavier work. So I decided to upgrade to something that will dig and move material (to save my back).

A key for me was the ability to work in confined areas in my backyard without trashing the yard...trenching, landscaping, etc. And also be able to maintain my horse arena, move feed, etc. I narrowed my choices to the 790 (with backhoe) and BX.

The 790 with hoe was considerably more expensive, heavier, and bigger. Its a fine tractor, but not nimble enough for my needs. The BX fit my needs nearly squarely. The cavalier attitude at the JD dealer helped my decision along. When the bota dealer went WAY out of his way to arrange the test drive on the 22, I was sold. No regrets. ....

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RichT
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2002-10-28          44333


...and, I should have added, I'm partial to hydrostats, per my experience with the JD332. JD should have given the 790 a hydro option IMO. ....

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Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999
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2002-10-28          44334


Rich,

It's good that you got what you wanted and best suits your needs, regardless of the color.

Billy ....

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jeff r
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2002-10-28          44337


Gee guys I didn't mean to stir a hornets nest here, but I call it the way I see it. JD corporate needs to re-think the way it does business and adjust the attitude of its dealers. I think a "mystery shopper approach" sent to shop JD dealers with a rating system to see how the prospective customer is treated would really open the JD's marketing approach and may get JD back in the tractor business. A dealer receiving consistanty poor "mystery shopper" scores could have JD looking for another dealer to represent their products??? I wonder if JD's corporate marketing honchos making 6 figure incomes monitor this site???? IMO JD makes a good product, but for one reason or another their dealer network is alienating the customer, at least in southeast Michigan it is happening. ....

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Peters
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2002-10-29          44347


Jeff;
I agree that some of the JD dealers need to be brought up to the 21st century in terms of business practices. Many dealers whether green or blue are geared for the farmers in their community. There is a heirarchy of customers the old customers that they know and have spend hundreds of thousands of dollars with them are respected and treated with respect and as friends.
If you walk in off the street and they do not know you then they are less likely to respond to you.
I also get the impression with some dealers that the compact tractor market is the discount sales. Because they make so much money on the high end tractors when you come and ask about a small tractor they tend to brush you off. It is a bit like a going into a real estate agent and looking at $10,000-20,000 dollar properties.
T
....

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Peters
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2002-10-29          44349


How do you change the sales technique? A lot of small car dealers in small towns have the same approach. Remember they probably have learned their technique from their fathers. ....

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TomG
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2002-10-29          44350


A couple of tails that tell the same story as sales stats: A friend who does building work was telling me about somebody we both know who wanted him to do a project. A friend says 'The guy complained that my estimate was too high, but dang I'd have to get a Kubota in to do the work.' In a mystery I was reading, a rich city sort with a cottage observes that his neighbour just got a Kubota. The character says: 'George, you're a stockbroker, you can't operate a backhoe.' (George was probably looking over his shoulder).

Kubota has become so dominant that 'Kubota" has come to mean 'small tractor.' The company probably will have to start protecting its name or loose exclusive rights to it like Thermos and Kleenex. Coke spends big bucks to protect their name. I do like my Ford though. It's a mystery why a number of dealers around here stopped handling Kubota about five years ago.
....

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Mr Ed
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2002-10-29          44368


In Japan, farms have always tended to be far smaller than in the US. As a result, the Japanese developed expertise in building small compact tractors. When demand began to grow in the US for these smaller tractors, Kubota was in a good position to capitalize on the market. They also helped create price competition as Kubota offered a viable alternative to Deere. deere finally caught on and now imports Japanese made compact tractors. I own one of them - a 4100.

I seriously considered a BX from Kubota. Its a good machine at a great price. However for what I wanted to do, the 4100 was better suited to my needs. I felt it fit between the BX2200 and next step up in the Kubota line - both in price and size.

In my opinion, JD only has itself to blame for not being #1 in this segment in terms of sales. Kubota did to them what the Japanes auto makers did to the big three.

No matter what you think, we are all better for it long term. The competition has resulted in better products and prices. I agree that JD sales people need to sharpen their sales skills. Most of the dealers around here are a bunch of good old boys who are pretty arrogant. I finally found one in another state that was pretty good. Sales tactics were not great but the price was. All of the Kubota dealers I visited were much better.

If you think JD dealers are bad now, just think how bad they would be if competitors like Kubota had not entered the market. ....

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jdioa
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2002-10-29          44386


Mr. Ed- It's true there are arrogant good old boy salesman types no matter whether you deal in green, orange or whatever color of equipment. I think it's unfortunate that you have had poor experiences with John Deere salesman but also unfair to brand them all as not caring for anyone but the big farmer. Where as Kubota has been entrenched in the compact business for many years, John Deere is just getting started with unique products like e-hydro and i-match. Some old dogs may not care to learn these new tricks and their arrogance may just be a push off to cover up for lack of knowledge. However, myself and many of my collegues do try hard to find out customer needs prior to product recommendation so your blanket statement of John Deere salespeople not caring is kind of a slap in the face to the many of us who make it number one on our list. ....

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Billy
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2002-10-29          44387


Everyone says JD is built in Japan. I don't understand this statement!

Billy
....

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jdioa
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2002-10-29          44388


Their Yanmar diesel engines are from Japan but the JD factory in in Augusta, GA ....

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dsg
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2002-10-29          44389


Billy, From what I understand the 50, 55 and 70 series JD's were made and for the most part put together in Japan. Now only the 4100 is completed in Japan. The 4200 and above are parts from a number of countries (including Japan) and shipped to Atlanta, Ga. for assembly, so JD can say (MADE IN THE USA). I would rather JD left Start to Finish in Japan, (better quality control).

David ....

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jeff r
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2002-10-29          44390


jdioa,

Mr Ed did not mean to blanket ALL JD dealers as poor salesmen and living on JD's past glory. If it was the same as in my case, he meant to say 80%. Those 80% are making it rough on dealers like yourself. Agriculture is NOT KING in southeast Michigan and never was. Who these JD dealers cater to is beyond me. Maybe it is an male ego problem talking about less than' 40hp tractors to naive homeowners rather than heavy duty " male ego Tim Taylor equipment. One thing is for sure for this middle aged professional driving a late model 4X4 pick-up, looking for a tractor in the spring on 2002 dressed in dockers and carrying pre-approved credit for 30,000, the typical JD dealer's attitude was disappointing and head shakingly funny. The JD guy that locked his front door and got in his truck and went home while I was on one knee reading a a tire size on a new 4310 (I think) was the LAST GREEN STRAW. I laughed my hinny off. The guy just drove off from a sale and didn't even know it. LMAO. Needless to say, I wasn't green with envie.
I am going to say one last thing on this green problem, and see what you guys think. I am firmly convinced that the attitude of the average JD dealer is NOT going to change in the forseeable future. With that said, it is my humble opinion that JD will never see #1 in compact tractor sales until these dealers retire from the business or JD corporate gets tough and jerks some franchises while making some examples of JD dealers that "can't, "won't, or "refuse to learn how". The days of taking tractor orders are GONE. A good saleman has to develope rapor, meet, great and "friendly" sell his product and if the sales presentation goes past 5:00 so be it. ....

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Chief
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2002-10-29          44400


Jeff,

Or for that matter anyone else who is ready to purchase a tractor, AND I MEAN READY TO BUY; I'll make you a challenge. You tell me what John Deere you want, the options, and impliments to go with it and let me work you up a price. I think I can be VERY competitive and more than likely beat any price you can find. Only hitch is that you may have to drive a distance to come pick it up depending upon where you live if you don't want to pay shipping charges. Got enough junk on the lot and not looking for any trade-ins; just a straight up tractor sale. Let me work you up a price out the door for your tractor and I will email you the price, you can verify it over the phone with the dealer prior to leaving your home. All I ask is that you arrive with the check of some kind to pay for the tractor at the price we agreed upon. You bring a truck and trailer and haul it home. We handle amongst John Deere, Land Pride, Kuhn, Brillion, UM, J&M, Yetter, Westfield, Chandler, & Panorama.

Jeff has a valid point and I agree that there are alot of "duds" out there working as sales persons and they are not worried about the little guy; just making the big sale on the 9720 combine. This attitude surely does turn many folks off......myself included. My aim is to make my sale to the customer who does not mind driving long distance for it and put them in a great tractor at a great price while at the same time making it a VERY pleasant sales experience for them. I also aim to demonstrate to the dealership that internet sales are not something to poo poo at and disreguard as well as being a VERY powerful sales technique/mechanism. People buy automobiles on the internet everyday, in fact I recently purchased my 2002 Dodge Ram 2500 4 x 4, Cummins HO on the internet.........why not tractors. I drove over 500 miles round trip to get it and saved thousands. Once we have prep'd the tractor and equipment for you, you have satisfied your self that it meets your approval, you take it home with you and your local dealer will provide support unless you are in our area, in which case, we will be more than delighted to handle your business.

Bottom line of this WAY too long post is: If you are ready to buy, I am ready to sell you what you are looking for, and I WILL work with you. Not all JD dealers have their noses stuck up in the air. Selling any piece of equipment no matter how big or small is what my job is. ....

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Billy
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2002-10-29          44401


That being the case, there's no tractor or vehicle made in the USA. So when you say buy American, you really mean?

Billy ....

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DRankin
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2002-10-29          44403


Well Billy, It don't mean much anymore. Even if the thing is totally made in America, a foreign conglomerate usually owns the company and the profits go overseas anyway.

I guess when we buy American we mean there is an American worker involved in the process somewhere.

For what itís worth, my new Kubota BX22 has a plaque on the frame declaring it was made in Georgia, USA
....

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DRankin
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2002-10-29          44405


Chief Trademark, Now I am cornfused. Are you an Army procurement officer or are you a tractor dealer? ....

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Chief
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2002-10-29          44406


Doing my best to make the transition. I flew UH-60 Blackhawks for 20 years; was recently medically grounded and can no longer fly. Soon to be medically retired. My challenge and offer still stands. ....

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Ryan
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2002-10-29          44408


I appologize to everyone that walked into a JD dealer and got treated poorly, the best thing to do there is contact JD and let them know which dealer miss lead you. I work for a family owned JD business. We currently own 13 JD stores and 2 NH.

I just got back from a JD ride and drive. This consist of several JD compacts and several competitors compacts. The main focus was kubota and NH, and not in that order. Anytime I get in a bind with someone looking at a BX or anyother Kubota, I one remind the customer that the BX is not a compact, it is a sub-compact. Its not going to give you the performance of a compact. The same way a compact wouldn't give you the performance of a Utility tractor.
I like to take the machinery out to the customers house and have them arrange the same machine lined up in Kubota to be there also. When you are placed with both machines infront of you, you can see the service ability, safety, comfort, easy features with in the opperaters station, the BIG difference in transmission. This is why JD cost more. The old saying, you get what you pay for is absolutely true. You know, Kubota makes a damn good machine. But it will never be a JD. Ive been involved in the equipment line for a long time. No company offers you the service like JD. I am talking, when I call JD with a question, its answered then and there, not, call this number, and then this one until you end up at the same place you originally started. I will tell you the most important thing in purchasing a compact. I bleed green, but in all seriousness, YOU buy the machine in which that dealership will treat you like the king that you are. You are the one paying their wages and saleries. They best bust their ass to make sure you are happy. "the customer is never wrong" kind of philosophy. To often people come to me and say hey, i can save $150 buying a dealership 200 miles away or even 35 miles away. That is fine, hey money talks, but is that dealer coming out to your house to service your maching in the winter or when it breaks down. It cost money to stalk parts, and that dealer that charges you $150 more, if he is stalking more parts, and offers better parts specials and sends you a card thanking you for buying your machine off of him/her, thats where you want to buy your machine. If you can trust your salesman, you can trust the store. Ask him to talk to previous people who have made previous purchases. Talk to them, if they highly recomend them, go with him, even if it is $150 more.

Thanks,
Ryan Young-
....

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larry
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2002-10-30          44426


I can tell you that John Deere is very "concerned" with Kubota
I worked in Welland next to the JD factory & they have a huge
test track that has the ability to "run" tractors for hours on end around a track that has moguls,dips,etc.
Also they have huge piles of gravel,dirt,etc
The tractor they ran most there were the Kubota's,just tortured them.They would then take them inside & tear them down to see where they were going wrong.The front end loaders were another concern on the compacts because the Kubota loaders took more of a beating and still performed & Deere knew it.It was funny watching them drive these tractors full throttle into these huge piles of dirt etc,then get off the tractor with their clipboards & laptops-lots of head scratching -like back to the drawing board ....

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DRankin
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2002-10-30          44438


It isnít just Ag dealers who are recalcitrant. It is almost every business I deal with.

Seventy percent of my calls to plumbers, electricians or other sub-contractors go unanswered.
Easily half of all the calls I have placed to tractor dealers and parts suppliers go unanswered.
The local tractor dealer sells Kubota and Deere on the same lot, along with boats, jet skis, four wheelers and the like. The biggest thing on the lot is a 4710 and Grand L KubotaísÖno combines or serious Ag stuff. I have stood outside, examining tractors for 30-40 minutes and had no one come out to see if I needed help. I have seen others walk away in disgust because they came to buy a boat and no one offered help.

In my experience just the simple courtesy of returning phone calls has become uncommon, and to find a sales person who actually knows something about his product is rare indeed.
....

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Art White
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2002-10-30          44443


As a dealer I will tell you it is no different than when I was in the service or any other job. There are good people as well as bad people. There is an old saying 20% do 80% of the work. We don't know if a individual will set the world on fire when we hire, or to put our fire out. We do not always know someones true ability before they are hired. Still sometimes it's hard to find out you have something going on wrong until damage has been done. The manufacturers do have ratings for dealers after the sale. We do not know if you walk away and don't tell! Please talk to us, and help us, we do want your business! I don't believe there is a single business that can be run without customers. I do want to know how to be a better dealer for you. I am here to learn from you and I have learned a lot. Every dealer needs your input. This board is benifical to both parties on this, I read of your discouraging moments and work to see they don't happen here. I to have been disapointed when making purchases just like everyone else. I do let them know both ways!
....

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jeff r
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2002-10-30          44460


HEY Chief.
I will keep you in mind for a new tractor since i don't keep anything longer than 2 years. LOL. With some of the prices I have been offered for my B-2150 from folks driving by and seeing it sitting in the driveway I should have pocketed the cash and yelled "yippeee", but the "new" hasn't worn off yet if you know what I mean? ....

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ryan
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2002-10-30          44464


I started selling at our one location a few years back. I was sitting in the show room behind our number 3 sales person in the company. My first few months, the only business I got was when he wasnt around. But, he never called people back. He did around $1,800,000 a year in sales. Well, I took what I could and started small, but I always kept my word and did what I said I would do. I have repeated buisness now and I guess a decent reputation. I guess the point is, I am here to do a Job and thats to serve the customer. That is what I get paid to do and it really sucks when I go somewhere and I know dang well, my question wasn't answered because a phone call had to be made, or it was to cold to go out on the lot and check. This kind of attitude is what drives me to become better a individual everyday! Yeah I have my days, but at least I try. ....

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BEK
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2002-10-31          44501


An interesting thread. Today (Oct 31) I bought a Kubota BX22. I own an old Deere garden tractor and a newer Deere out front mower, and went first to look at the Deere dealer where I bought the out front mower. I waited around the showroom for a while, then finally got handed a brochure and motioned over to the window where the salesman pointed to a 4010. I mentioned Kubota, and the salesman immediately ripped the product, telling me how unhappy I'd be if I bought one. He quoted me a price, and told me to come back when I was serious.
A week later I drove past a Kubota dealer on a Sunday morning 75 miles away from home. He had a BX22 out front, and I stopped to look. A guy came out of a shed and asked if I had any questions. It was the owner, who had opened up on Sunday to get a part for a customer. He talked to me for 15 minutes and offered me a test drive. He unlocked the office to get me a brochure before I left.
I visited a second Kubota dealer on a rainy Saturday morning. I asked the salesman about how difficult it was to detach the hoe on a BX22. He got the manual and we went out so he could show me the process. He gave me a written quote and offered to demo the BX at my property at my convenience.
I visited the third dealer (another crappy rainy day) about 3:30 PM. No BX22's out front, but several BX2200's. Within about 5 minutes a guy came out to ask if I needed help. He fired up a BX2200 so I could play with the loader and drive it around, and we got down on our knees so I could see exactly how the 60" mower deck detached. I bought from this dealer (located in Canastota, NY - I've appreciated the owner's frequent posts to this forum).
The tractor I just bought may be good or bad, but I certainly cannot fault the interest shown in me as a customer by 3 different Kubota dealers. ....

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Kyle_in_Tex
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2002-10-31          44510


Exactly, the bottom line is your dealer. Hopefully, you can find a great one near you no matter what brand. I won't knock any brands here, I almost bought orange. I bought green, I feel they have the clout, heritage, and distribution network to get their product into the market place. I think the new 4000 ten series is a giant leap into CUT marketshare, it will take years to carve out a bigger share due to the quality of all brands out there. After shopping for months, I narrowed it down to a few and then compared dealerships and price. My JD dealer beat the orange price. I did shop internet, phone and in person too.
So find a good dealer to answer your questions, and if you like their product and price, support them. I know I didn't buy orange but I would like to salute Steve Carver at Carver equipment for a better, more informative website than Kubota has. Thanks Steve, keep it up. I may call your place for a quote on a 1st Choice delivery if my dealer won't handle them.
Kyle ....

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Billy
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2002-11-01          44514


Not all JD dealers are bad, just as not all Kubota dealers are good.

I did find one of the bad JD dealers. This one place in Idabel OK. I couldn't even get them to talk to me about a JD compact.

The JD dealer I did buy from, in DeQueen AR) is excellent. I had a hydralic leak where the main line comes out of where the filter is. That and the throttle would creep down. They picked it up and brought me another tractor to use while they worked on the problems. A few days later, I came home an noticed my new tractor was back...everything perfect.

I have noticed, from all the post, it seems most of the bad JD dealers are in the northern part of the US?

Billy ....

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Kyle_in_Tex
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2002-11-01          44521


I should also give thanks to my JD Dealer. They have been in business since 1930's and they bent over backwards to help me out. I was a wet behind the ears individual with no prior tractor experience. Giving me real world advice and actually steering me clear of things they could have sold me towards what I actually needed. They are striving to break into the CUT market and eager to help. Vic is the main salesman.
Thank you to
Jaeger's in Giddings Tx.

Kyle

Kyle ....

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dsg
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2002-11-02          44559


Billy, Not all JD dealers in the Northeast are bad. Got a Good one here in Ellsworth, Maine, (Greenway Equipment Sales). I shopped around and found the Owner, Tyler Smith to be a straight shooter. I hope for JD's sake he is the norm not the exception.

David ....

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IRTEXN
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2002-11-03          44566


Truth be know, the very best tractor made would be a John NewBota...Green hood, Blue fenders and Orange wheels..lol ....

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Kyle_in_Tex
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2002-11-03          44574


I love the JohnNewBota idea, especially if the dealer is your favorite uncle. ....

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Red Greene
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2002-11-04          44575


They are all made in Japan and are all the same except for color. The only reason Kubota sells so many tractors is they are orange. Everybody likes orange, and John Deer will lose sales as green becomes more and more out of style. NH will drop to zero in sales, who wants a blue tractor? What color is Kioti, a boring color? No! Mohindra will become the new thing, it's a nice red color, and they are the least expensive tractor. Even Japan can't make a tractor as inexpensively, the people in India get $0.25 an hour to work. ....

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John Smith
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2002-11-04          44576


JD should offer 3 or 4 colors and watch their market share come back. ....

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Art White
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2002-11-04          44585


I"ve told several people I can paint your Kubota any color you want, and it won't take Kubota's quality out of it. ....

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DRankin
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2002-11-04          44590


When I was a kid, Deere was green, Case was orange and Farmall was red, so nothing much has changed in the last half century that I can see.
I buy for features and quality first; color is way down the list. Anybody's TLB combo for 16k would have caught my attention. Kubota got there first.
In fact, I wish Kubota would tone it down a little. It is a bit too bright for me, but living a mile above sea level in the desert should fade it down in a couple of years anyway.
....

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anon
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2002-11-04          44595


I've seen KIOTI 1914 TLB's with KIOTI brand 7' Backhoes and loaders for around 17k ....

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DK35vince
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2002-11-04          44607


Red Green and John Smith,
I would certainly hope most buyers base their decision on fit and finish,dealer,price and construction of the tractor.
And not on what Color it is !! ....

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DRankin
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2002-11-04          44608


I checked into the Kioti 1914 TLB, nice package but Kubota won because they had zero down financing. ....

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Greg H
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2002-11-19          45147


Ole Chief can't stand to hear the JD isn't the Holy Grail to everyone. Think about their run of bad transmissions and the many unhappy owners I have read about on the forums.Even JD has problems just like the rest.
Greg H ....

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jeff r
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2003-07-24          60060


HERE IS YOU ARTICLE DOC!!!!! AEM AN INDUSTRY REPORTING SERVICE SEPTEMBER 2002 ISSUE ....

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bvbilski
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2003-07-25          60100


In June when I was buying my tractor, I had bad experiences at both a John Deere and a Kubota dealership. But I can't say if it was a problem with the dealership's attitude or just the individual salesmen. Other people I know have bought from both places and were quite happy. Gee, maybe I was the one with the attitude? (never thought of that before) ....

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bobggg
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2003-07-27          60202


I just made the decision to go with a Kub7500 over a JD4110. I consider both tractors pretty much the same with a slight edge to the Deere, but Kubota got me because $1000 cheaper and 1 more year on warranty. The warranty thing really bothers me. If you make a quality product then show it in the warranty. As far as the dealerships go they were both nice, but the Deere dealership was very nice. The sales guy spent a heck of a lot of hours with me. If I were buying on salesman alone, I would have chosen Deere. ....

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jeff r
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2003-07-27          60267


DOC,

Let's take this point by point. First I am a registered user on the this, Dennis told me so.

Secondly, let's go over some basic financial stuff on how a dealer's inventory is arrived at. Import numbers are VERY important valid indicators of units sold. Since I was a territory Rep for Uniden and Hitachi I went through the very same process a tractor dealer goes through. Same process different product.

Every year a rep sits down with a dealer and gets inventory needs for the upcoming year. For example if that dealers sold 100 of the manufacturers's tractors, do you think that dealers is going to be ordering 200 for the upcoming year? Probably NOT since that means he plans on increasing his sales 100%. If he takes a look at past years most dealers will find there total tractor sales did not double so ordering 100% more is not a good business decision. Secondly, there is a thing call floorplanning financing. That is a line of credit a dealer uses to finance that inventory. ALL dealers have a limit on the amount of inventory they can finance. SO, if a dealer has say a million dollar line of credit with a floorplanner and 100 tractors represent a million dollars, where do you think the dealer is going to get another million dollars to finance the extra 100 tractors? Any dealer is paying an interest rate on his inventory sitting on his sales floor. Ask ART WHITE, he knows eaxactly what I'm talking about. If you think all a dealer has to do is make a telephone call and say, "MR Floorplanner increase my floorplanning another million bucks please", you are sadly mistaken. He has to order a realistic amount of tractors.....not too many,,,not too few. These numbers give the manufacturer a rough idea how many tractors he has to produce to satisfy his dealer base. The mfg's call this PRODUCTION PLanning. Since these tractors or engines represent forcasted sales figures, import numbers are VERy proportional to anticipated sales. AEM import figures are for year end total, the system would NEVER work that quick to do monthly totals because the system reporting is SOOO slow. JD could never ship ALL their inventory in one Quarter...what would they build for the other 9 months?? MFG's like a nice smooth production curve for the entire year. Small increases in production can be made due to "unanticipated sales spikes", but for the most part a MFG is committed once he plans for the numbers he dealer base projected for him. The questions you ask are ALL highly complex production planning scenarios that people write textbooks on theory about. I know I had to read that stuff to get a degree in finance.

I said it was just business because when I open my wallet to make a major purchase, it is all about money and what that dealer can do for Me. That is what I refer to as "ALL Business". In the USA we call it the Free enterprise system and it basically says you got to please the customer to get a sale.
Now let's talk about transhipping authorized product to an unauthorized dealer. All dealers have a franchise agreement with their manufacturer. The terms and limits vary but in my case as a mfg's rep I guranteed an authorized dealer a realistic marketing area. If he or I caught and unauthorized dealer selling my product and if he or I could buy that product to get a serial number to trace what authorized dealer did the shipping, the first infraction was a warning to the shipping dealer. Next time it happens he buys the product back at 3 times what he paid, and the third time he loses his franchise. If I was an authorized JD dealer and the unauthorized dealer down the road was selling my product,,,,I would yell like a banshee at the Manufacturer.

Here is another sticky situation a manufacturer's rep pulls his hair out over. You have 2 good authorized dealers in roughly the the same marketing area. Dealer #1 has exhausted his inventory of a fast moving product because he sold it at a low % markup. The other authorized dealer has the same product but is selling at a higher price and has the product on his sales floor. Dealer #1 can't get more product from the mfg so he calls another far away authorized dealer and get's the product to sell lower than dealer #2 still selling the same product at a higher profit effectively "stealing" dealer's #2 sale. What would you do if you were the rep knowing the mfg is a winner either way???


What else you want to know? ....

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jeff r
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2003-07-28          60303


HEY DOC,

Why do I feel like Jesus talking to Pontious Pilate? I said O% financing is not good if your financing a 20,000 vehicle. My wife didn't explain squat to me, she just told me about the display board and the comparison. A GREY MARKET tractor to my definition is NOT what we are talking about here. A grey market tractor to my understanding is a tractor with a DIFFERENT model number NOT intended to be sold it the USA. What we are talking about here is AUTHORIZED DEALERS SHIPPING CURRENT MODEL TRACTORS TO UNAUTHORIZED DEALERS. THIS IS NOT MY DEFINITION OF A GREY MARKET TRACTOR. MODEL NUMBERS NOT SERIAL NUMBERS!!!! SINCE JD gets their engines from YANMAR IN JAPAN to be assembled in Georgia, DONT YOU THINK the import numbers for engines is a directly proporation to a the number of tractors JD needs to build??? DUH,,, Earth to DOC. Building tractors without importing the engine makes no sense. I have no idea what Van Parmels has sitting in his lot. I haven't been there since October when I bought my backhoe from him since he is off ther beaten path. HE did have Kiotis when I was there in October 2002. Why in tarnation would anything including tractors be imported to the USA if somebody down the line didn't plan in trying to SELL IT!!!! You think they import these these tractors just to sit around and let the dealer pay the floorplanning charges. GO re-read your post and see if it makes any sense. IMPORTING NUMBERS ARE UNITS COMING INTO THE USA INTENDING TO BE SOLD at some future point in time. All I am saying is the buying consumer votes in the market place with his dollars and he is voting for Kubota. All the other quality garbage you talk about is something YOU put into the equation. I have spent far too much time and patience educating you to Import Economics 101. Don't bother me anymore with your drivel of self contrived logic that has no valid meaning in the real world. You do not have the business knowledge to state your points that make any sense to me......AND I TRIED MY DARNDEST. Anybody that can't see the correlation between import numbers and sales is someone I don't want to waste my time on. ....

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Misenplace
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2003-07-28          60310


By the way on the current Ag estimates by AEM they group tracters under 40 hp and 2 WD. 4WD have a seperate colum with no regard to HP. ....

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jeff r
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2003-07-28          60311


HEy doc,

Personal attacks against me will not win you any friends here. What part of "I'm done pandering to YOUR ignorance" don't you understand??? This will be my last reply to you about these matters on this thread so you can go supervise those 50 minimium wage employees and all those MBA file clerks.

Nolan's and Grenia's #1 and #2 voted here???? Interesting. Somebody better see who has the keys to that ballot box. In my opinion, Grenia's hasn't got enough inventory to select from and Nolan's has 20 acres of rusting junk with salesmen who's hands are super glued to the phone. But then again like Dennis Miller and I ......"that's just my opinion and I could be wrong".

Your friend,

Jeff


....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2003-07-29          60364


Jeff, I hate to throw a wet blanket on your arguements or logic, but there does seem to be one hole big enough to drive my # 1 selling Kubota (even with the cab on it) through.

You said earlier on in this thread, "SINCE JD gets their engines from YANMAR IN JAPAN to be assembled in Georgia, DONT YOU THINK the import numbers for engines is a directly proporation to a the number of tractors JD needs to build??? DUH,,, Earth to DOC.".

Now I take it from that statement that you are then assuming that all the Yanmar engines imported into the US are destined for JD tractors.

What about the other users of these products?

Aside form other turf equipment, Yanmar is the # 1 supplier of marine engines in the small & medium categories of inboard diesels, they also supply a lot of bare engines for generators, welders and water pumps.

However so do Kubota ......

I think the assumption is a little flawed there friend.

Best of luck. ....

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Misenplace
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2003-07-29          60369


Murf, Thanx for verbalizeing that clearer than I was able to. Really that's all I was trying to say is that AEM tracks assembled machines. They also do not include 4x4 models in the under 40 hp class. This is a trade group geared at watching general market trends for companys. Engines imprted may well wind up in the parts dept or in a hydraulic wood splitter. Overall I just think its like peeing in the wind a bit. #1 in sales does not mean #1 in quality and service. Even If does mean that, and Kubota may well be #1 , which is fine by me as I feel I benefit from the competition theese companys provide one another. I guess it just rubs my rubarb the wrong way to hear someone say this dealer sucks, that dealer sucks. I have some really sad news for most of the folks in the metro Detroit area. Nearly all tractor dealers in this area are in need of some serious customer service training. That includes most definately, green, orange and blue paint. That is the mentality here and it has no reflection what so ever on the quality of the machine. If I were buying new and all things were equal I really do not believe a poor choice could be made. I mean one of the biggest, and I think most humorous debates on orange Vs green is Plastic vs metal hoods. Good grief, talk about splitting hairs. ....

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jeff r
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2003-07-29          60377


The argument is OVER, period. If you want to know the technical aspects on how AEM obtains their data and how they label the correct data, go ask them. I didn't see a lawsuit against AEM for reporting flammatory, skewed or otherwise wrong numbers by any of the less than #1 manufacturers. Because you don't happen to like what they reported, pro or con, is like you said a "moot point". Now let's drop it. ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2003-07-29          60387


I agree. Everyone must be out of urine by now anyway.

Lets talk tractors, welding, airplanes, guns or, good God, even beavers.

....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2003-07-29          60389


Are you talking about the dock and boat beavers? I'm all for it!!! ;-) If anyone has any urine or "bnr" short for bovine nutrient residue; save it for Lt. Censeless. ....

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AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2003-07-29          60394


I have a friend in Cincinnatti that would like the conversation about the dock beavers.

I told him that we used to go off the coast of California to fish for Red Snapper and he never did believe me. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2003-07-29          60402


Are those 'other' Red Snappers anything like Bearded Oysters...

Of course the Dock Beavers do usually have smaller rounder tails... than the other, more prevalent ones...

Oh, and you have to be VERY careful hunting Dock Beaver... if the Warden catches you the 'life sentence' might get converted to a 'death sentence'...

Best of luck. ....

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Misenplace
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2003-07-29          60403


Well now the tail size on the dock beavers tends to vary a bit with how many trees they've been nibelin on. Now Murf, I sure would not want to tell a friend what to do in his own castle but when when you were shopping for a new cell you were supposed to find one with a more amicable warden ! I know I didnt read the owners manual until later either, later being the second warden. LoL. ....

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cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000
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2003-07-29          60421


Had to attend a class reunion last week for the wife's graduation decade, first night of it was held down the road at the driftwood lounge. I must admit, there was a variety of dock, deck, pier and pulpit beaver on hand for sport. Most of the guys were using spears during the sporting events and the gals were checking out the assorted size of the weapons that were available in hopes of catching that big one! I just love to fish. ....

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cutter
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2003-07-29          60427


Might check you for the proper trolling equipment and see that your catch is legal! ....

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bvbilski
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2003-07-29          60431


Do you guys know if there is a calendar with pictures of wildlife (snapper, beaver, oyster, etc..) operating compact tractors? If there isn't one, maybe there should be. I think one of those would look nice in my garage...the calendar that is. ....

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Art White
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2003-07-30          60438


I know that Snap-on and all the rest have cut back on the good animal calenders, Maybe the next should come from, ah Tractor Point.com. What do you think Dennis? ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2003-07-30          60450


WOW, wait just a minute Doc, yours came with a MANUAL ??!!!

Mine is strictly 'trial & error'... and that was with a 5 year newer model than the first one!!!

Although, I was told that I can 'fish' all I want, but the first one 'over the rail' would be me ... I haven't tested that regulation, nor do I intend to ...

I have a feeling the penalty for fishing out season is confiscation of more than just the boat and tackle.

However, when I mentioned this thread to buddy who stopped by last night he said it reminded him of a joke, here goes;

A fellow tells his wife he is going on a fishing trip to a remote cabin with 'the boys' for long weekend. Skeptical she decides not to argue, but remains unconvinced of his plans. He informs her that since it a last minute thing and he is SO busy, she should pack his tackle, rods, and clothes for him to save time. He says "Oh, and Honey, pack my good silk pajamas to will you." He heads off fishing and a week later re-appears. She asks "How was the trip Dear?"

"Oh" he says, "the scenery was great, the cabin was perfect, the weather was glorious and I had the best 3 days of fishing EVER!!! I'm going back there again soon!! ... But Honey, I thought I asked you to pack my silk pajamas?"

"I did" she replied, "they were right on top ..."

"No" he replies "they weren't in my suitcase I checked, I pulled everthing out, they weren't there!"

"No" she says "not in your suitcase, in your tackle box."

"Ohhh ...."


Best of luck.
....

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Misenplace
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2003-07-30          60460


Youre' killin me Murf ! I forgot to mention that I had to Write "THE MANUAL" the second time around. New chapters were a pretty regular occurance the first few years but now I only add a page or two a year. I forgot to ask if that speed canoe came with 525's or the 900 SC lightning package. I gather at the speeds you mentioned you have the twin 900's ...unless someones been turning Wrenches in the old boiler room ! ....

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Murf
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2003-07-30          60467


Actually it's neither Doc, they are a matching pair of custom made big block Ford's built by a motor shop in NC that builds motors for many 'racing' Fountains, as wel as a good number of 'go fast, turn left cars'.

They are far nicer than 'out of the box' motors and I have found them over the years to be rather bullet-proof as far as general running since they are built for the rigors of racing.

They are running a little shy of 700hp each which is about the most you want to push out of them before they start to get a little 'finicky', but that is still enough to push it along just fine.

Best of luck. ....

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Doug B.
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2003-08-01          60712


I wouldn't waste the money on a name and that ugly green! they don't make them like they use to! take 4 grand off the 17 and buy a Massey Fergusen and never worry about having to gouge into your wallet for repairs! they are Brutes compared to the Deere's Cheaper parts, thats why they stay in business, they have to supply everyone they sold there half torqued tractors with parts to repair them and they are very expensive parts and cheaply made so the profit margin is much higher! Find a Moline or Massey and get away from the childs tractor, you won't regret the money you saved! that 17Grand is just paying for a Name! Like Rebock Tennis Shoes were great! now that they have american plants they are uncomfortable and there stocks dropped and people still buy them for the original name they have earned from the past when they made a real Tennis Shoe with cushioned Arch supports.

Doug B.
Get into Life, Buy a real tractor! buy a Massey....
JD is green because they take your green to maintain them! ....

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
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2011-11-09          181135


I just looked at this old post.... boy weren't we feisty back in the day. How do you guys see the compact tractor companies stacking up in a 2011 volume ranking? ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2011-11-09          181137


The problem with sales numbers IMHO is that different companies have different definitions of units, so one company might include rebadged units they bought as part of their sales volume, while others include what some would consider as "estate" or "garden" tractors in their "compact tractor" numbers.


Best of luck. ....

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Art White
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2011-11-10          181159


Much of the market hasn't changed other then a few names have been changed to protect the guilty or from other fiscal gains! You can get a 790 hydro today, a left over would come with Cadet Yanmar on it! Fresh issues with just Yanmar! ....

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
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2011-11-10          181161


Art are same store compact tractor sales volumes up or down versus 2003? ....

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Art White
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2011-11-11          181171



Dennis, sales of compacts have been growing for us even with having three brands. Our compact tractor sales have been doing well even the poor economy. I know our sales have been quite strong with the Kubota line and I don't at this point consider them one of our short lines do to the share of our business they hold. To compare to 2003 I don't have the exact numbers but I'd say they are up over 30% in dollars at a minimum. ....

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DennisCTB
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2014-12-09          191582


Is Kubota still number one in Compact Tractor Sales? If you own one do you rate your purchase as a Number one Brand based on your ownership experience now in 2014 ? ....

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