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Forums > Active Threads > Auto Truck Trailer UTV/ATV > Pickup Trucks and Trailers

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Trailer comes off at 75mph

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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2008-08-10          155987


My daughter and I were jammin comin home today, Around 75+mph and a "great highway" in Wi. here my trailer started hopping. (grant it that it was not my large trailer. This trailer has axles from a javalin type car. The trailer is pretty heavy for its size and pulls great! Dont even know its there when running 75 and the tunes are cranked. Anyway, I hit a string of frost heaves at 75 today and the trailer was hopping. All of a sudden I see the top of the trailer walls swingin back and forth (I am partly death) My daughter say's, Hey old man, ya here that noise? what is it? I lower the radio and at the same time It hits me and I realize what has happened. Picture this, I am in the center lane with a trailer starting to swing hangin on the saftey chains. Center lane! three lanes of full traffic! Some how the idiots in my state, put down the cell phones, stopped eating their supersized meals and quit puttin on make up while driving long enough to also realize what is about to happen! They all slowed enough while I was applying my brakes in rythem with the bangin of the trailer into the back of my truck. I was trying to slow it down with out panicking and flipping the trailer off. Remember I not only need to get it stopped but also get over 2 lanes of traffic! Scary part is that at even 15-20mph the friggin thing still was slammin into the truck with enough force to scare me a bit if it was to flip back into traffic. I got her stopped and all the way off the highway again. Three lanes of bumper to bumper at 75mph and no one got hurt! Thats an awesome feeling when its all done and you controlled it! So I get out of the truck and head to the back to see what damage is done to the trailer. Im imagining hitch is screwed up enough that it wont be useable. I turn the corner and look at the trailer. Nothing is wrong!!!! Im freakin out! Not a friggin thing is screwed up on the trailer. BTW After the trailer runs down the highway at 75, dont grab the bottom of the square tubing, its about 175 degree's!) My trailer has a 3" square tubeing structural and on top of that is the trailers attatchment hook up. This 3" tubing slid on the cement picking up all the rubber/asphault joint seal as it slid along and jammed it into the tube, ya think I need to pay back the state?)
What happened?.... My 1/4-20 hex bolt I use to keep the trailer locked had a nut on it that was not a nyloc or a doubled lock nut. With out the bolt, all the jumping must of unlocked my trailer and off it came! I learned a lesson and no one got hurt, I will never run again with out a better set up for this (like a keyed lock!)

Anyone ever have this happen to them?

I know I got lucky, Like I told my daughter, some one
today could of been killed! It would of been blood on my back and I know it!

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Trailer comes off at 75mph

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2008-08-10          155990


Tom, my buddy had a similar situation where he welded a rear gate on a trailer similar to yours for a loacl landscaper. The landscaper sent his helper to pick up the traler and used the wrong ball size. Trailer came off the ball, hit a family and killed three. Long story short, my buddy's portion of the 3.2 million dollar jury award was $920,000. His insurance company refused his claim as he wasn't insured for manufacturing.

Not saying you did this but you may not have had the trailer locked on the ball--I have done this where the trailer looked like it was over the ball BUT wasn't-- then I "locked" it. I've pulled my bobcat trailer 60-70 miles once this way, and my fully loaded 15,000 lb. dump trailer a few times not realizing it. In both cases it was the great amount of tongue weight that kept them on.

The there was the time 4 of the 6 hitch bolts broke off the truck while pulling the loaded dump trailer...w-h-o-a-a-a-a! ....

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Trailer comes off at 75mph

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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2168 West of Toronto
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2008-08-10          155995


Your trailer was "fishtailing." That may have caused the attachment problem. The load center was too far aft and the speed too high. ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5111 Northern Nevada
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2008-08-11          155999


75+??

Way too fast my friend. ....

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Trailer comes off at 75mph

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2008-08-11          156000


Excessively high speed---yup---I agree--didn't want to be the first to say it.

And fishtailing---I agree, it wasn't set up right weight distributionwise. Any trailer set up correctly will follow like a dream at any speed--even if illegal and irresponsible. ....

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2646 NorthWest NJ
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2008-08-11          156002


Broken,

Happy to hear everyone is OK!

Dennis ....

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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2168 West of Toronto
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2008-08-11          156004


Let me add this. When your trailer fishtails it's usually counterproductive to hit your brakes rather than letting the rig slow gradually. Rather, watch for when it swings straight (where it should be) and apply the trailer brakes at that moment. But that's hard to do if the brake controller is not at hand, and you need both arms to correct the direction of the tow vehicle, especially the case if the tow vehicle is light compared to the trailer.

Also, check that you attached the safety chains in the proper criss-cross (double-diagonal) pattern. Finally, another way to deter fishtailing is to get a professionally chosen and installed equalizing hitch.

And if it makes you feel better, what I know about fishtailing I learned the hard way. ....

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Trailer comes off at 75mph

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2008-08-11          156007


It's stories like these that cause me to never want to tow. :)

Glad it turned out well for all concerned, it could have been a lot worse.
....

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Trailer comes off at 75mph

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7142 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2008-08-11          156008


Very glad indeed to hear everyone was alright.

A perfect example of why almost every trailer I own has a pintle hook / lunette ring type hitch on it.

Best of luck. ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5219 South Carolina
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2008-08-11          156013


BA, can understand you fright. Only time I ever had a trailer come loose it was about same as your's but used a pin. It was a small trailer and empty and only driving probably 30 mph and it was scarey enough. Glad all ok. In my case the safety chains prevented all damage as it keep the trailer tongue clear of pickup and road. kt ....

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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2008-08-12          156036


Yup, I agree with most all reply's. Will definately change some of my hook up set ups.
Trailer was empty and was only fish tailing after it came off the truck. This trailer pulls like a ghost trailer. As for speed, Hmm right again. Traffic eats you up when you leave rural settings and head into a spur/bypass around a larger city, I may get shot running the speed limit LOL!. Like I said, I was not even in the fast lanes.
EW, this time, the trailer was definately on to begin with, I use my crank to make sure the truck lifts a bit but I have had that happen with a u-haul, my nut came off the ball and all that was keepin it on was the tounge weight. Since then, I pinned all my nuts on my balls (hmm dont sound too good eh?)
All in all, you all are right, I got away with one and so did a family or a couple or a grandpa that may of been my victim. One thing for sure, when I feel I make a mistake, I always learn and never let it happen again. I posted this for the sole pupose of informing others not to make my mistake. WOW, looking back it is a scary thing driving on the highway and not knowing what the other guy is doing! ....

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Trailer comes off at 75mph

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5219 South Carolina
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2008-08-12          156039


BA, it pointed out the need and value of good safety chains. It amazes me how lax either our state laws are on trailers or the enforcement of the laws. I have never known of a trailer causing a cop to pull someone unless big rig. kt ....

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Trailer comes off at 75mph

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cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1303 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
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2008-08-12          156056


Glad everything ended up without injury for you and yours :)

On another note, it really scares me when I see trailers being towed down the road and attached with very little hardware, be it light duty safety chains, crappy latching pins or inadequate hitches.

I required the dealer to install a pintle hook on my 12k utility trailer before it left the lot, and the boat would have one if it had electric brakes rather than the surge type. But even an improperly attended to pintle can kill.

A local fly by night contractor hooked his rig to his truck on a rainy morning and was in such a hurry he forgot to drop the hook on the pintle. Killed two people a mile down the road when the trailer drifted into oncoming traffic.




....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2008-08-12          156058


I had a pintle come loose 25 years ago on an empty fuel tank trailer. Luckily my dad was following and flashed his headl;ights at me. I was driving a dump truck and couldn't hear nor feel it hitting the rear. Though the truck and hitch were new and I was just a 16 y.o. kid then, even then the pintle setup for locking the ctach didn't seem robust or even well designed or made. My feeling then as it is today is perhaps that drivers inherently see the pintle as carrying a lot of tongue weight and thus "safety" is disregarded for the need to keep the latch locked. ....

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cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1303 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
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2008-08-12          156060


Begin Rant...

Sadly true. I found that my local marina runs their hydraulic trailer with the latch open, in fact the latch is frozen open. How do I know this you ask? Well, when the tractor towing that trailer with my boat on it blew a tire and almost sent her over an embankment I hooked on with my truck and finished the haul. The marina owner had fastened the trailer and safety chains as I backed under her. I checked the attachment before I pulled away but the locking mechanism was unfamiliar to me, it looked like it was latched.

Took it another couple thousand feet to my storage building and off loaded the boat onto blocks. I then delivered the trailer back to the marina. When I arrived I needed a yard attendant to unhook the trailer since I was not familiar with the hydraulic operations on the thing (it lifts itself off). He never flinched when I asked how he did that without first unlatching the hitch "it has been frozen for years, it will never come off with that much tongue weight" he stated. I purchased my own trailer a month later.

God help us.


....

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Trailer comes off at 75mph

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7142 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2008-08-13          156064


A defective hitch or any other part is operator/owners responsibility. Period.

Being afraid of a hitch because of an isolated event is sort of like being afraid of bald tires, replace them.

Most pintle hitches on larger trucks these days are self closing, you can't leave them open. On our big trucks and the highway tractor the pintle hook opens and closes by air and there is a warning light and buzzer in the cab if it is in the open position.

Cutter, surge or electric brakes have no bearing on the type of coupler, I have several trailers that have surge brakes on a lunette ring. In fact my triaxle boat trailer I pulled the Fountain around on was equipped with that very setup.

Best of luck. ....

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Trailer comes off at 75mph

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cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1303 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
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2008-08-13          156075


Quote:
Originally Posted by Murf | view 156064
A defective hitch or any other part is operator/owners responsibility. Period.Being afraid of a hitch because of an isolated event is sort of like being afraid of bald tires, replace them.Most pintle hitches on larger trucks these days are self closing, you can't leave them open. On our big trucks and the highway tractor the pintle hook opens and closes by air and there is a warning light and buzzer in the cab if it is in the open position.Cutter, surge or electric brakes have no bearing on the type of coupler, I have several trailers that have surge brakes on a lunette ring. In fact my triaxle boat trailer I pulled the Fountain around on was equipped with that very setup.Best of luck.


Interesting Murf, I suspected the lash allowed by the pintle would create less than desirable towing conditions with surge brakes. How did the thing react when braking? Did it slam the brakes a bit?

Pintle would be much easier on me as generally I am alone hooking up.

....

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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2008-08-13          156081


Out of all the things we adults need to pay attention too, this is one that I sometimes have took for granted. A quick check on the hitch and off you go. Here is a funny thing about what happened. The day before we left at 4 am we stopped at a wayside about 6:30 to potty. I was parked way the hell out on the end of a wayside (daughter wanted to walk). The semi's were all lined up for the night and filled most of the spots and then some on their side of the wayside, a few others with trailers were in there also. Comin out I jumped in my truck and took off with out looking at the trailer system. Not that I always do, but, I had a feeling like I should of. Be it that someone may of been messing with it or maybe that I just wanted to check it I dont know. (I am sure no one was messing with it But I just had a feeling. Anyone ever have a feeling about something and then later it happens? Well, since this was the day before the event of course this did not happen but its funny how I can't remember a time when I worried about a trailer coming off and then a day later it happens.
Another reason to hug and kiss the kids everytime they take off for a trip. Remind them that it can happen so fast they wont know whats going on. A trailer fly's over the medium and your playing with the radio! Scarry yes, something worry about all the time nope!
Have a great night folks
Tom ....

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Trailer comes off at 75mph

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2008-08-14          156083


BA did you have that "funny feeling" when you backed over your PTO without disconnecting it the other day? tehehehe ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5219 South Carolina
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2008-08-14          156088


BA, as to the funny feeling; call it what you wish but I think we are often given such foresight. It we just payed attention to it. kt ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7142 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2008-08-14          156094


Cutter, it was as smooth as a ball hitch, no motion at all.

A properly sized and mated pair of lunette ring and pintle hitch will not have any motion since they are both supposed to be rounded on the contact surfaces, the lunette ring is round stock, and the pintle should have a matching rounded bottom of the hook.

Mind you my truck as loaded heading out (see my pic. # 5, except without the jet boat) wasn't likely to be anything but smooth!! LOL

Best of luck. ....

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cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1303 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
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2008-08-18          156153


I looked at that hitch this weekend Murf and don't see a way to convert it to a pintle without butchering the thing. If I need to do that I may try to convert it to electric/hydraulic brakes. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7142 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2008-08-18          156156


Cutter, I take it from your comments that the coupler portion, the part the ball slips into, is an integral part that goes back into the surge brake actuator and is a single monolithic unit?

If that's the case, depending on the make, Atwood, Demco or others, you may be able to buy a replacement coupler, other wise you just have to buy a replacement actuator (the surge brake coupler) itself.

Best of luck. ....

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Trailer comes off at 75mph

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5111 Northern Nevada
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2008-08-18          156174


This maybe a simpler solution.

I took the hitch pictured below and ground a bit of metal off the top latch so it will close and lock over the top of the coupler.

I came up with this after consulting with Murf about the negative loads placed on the hitch when operating the dump trailer.

The side benefit is that it will certainly keep a firm grip on a coupler at highway speeds and is cheaper than replacing the coupler and all that brake stuff. ....

Picture Link

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Trailer comes off at 75mph

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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2008-09-05          156510


EA
Actually I had the feeling like a Wild animal was watching me (Bear), Im sure you get that feeling (wild animals watching you) where you have been living this past few years. Its a creepy feeling and side tracts your thoughts. I already said I had my head up my behind! Pushing it further up is not required since I just got my bill for the new woods driveshaft parts. Try 300 bucks!
Oh, Anyone want to buy a "never used" KK drive shaft for a 72" brush cutter? I paid 165 will part with it for 90 ....

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Trailer comes off at 75mph

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2008-09-06          156512


BS...er...BA, lemme bring ya up to speed, son: I have been back since March of '07--gone for a year and a half. That's a year and a half I'll never get back!

$90! I bought one from TSC new for $50--they had a bunch that got separated from the implements and were more than happy to off them cheap. I'll sell it to you for $85 plus shipping. Not.
....

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grassgod
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 566 ct
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2008-09-26          156873


I had a class 3 hitch break off & snap all the bolt's mounting it to the frame of the truck. Luckily I was traveling on back roads doing 25 mph. Nothing was majorly damaged other then the hitch itself. The hitch did alot of damage to the asphalt on the road though as it dug in as it was sliding to a stop. The worst part was I has no way to get the trailer home which had my John Deere 790 on it at the time. It was an awkward situation because I had no cell service, I was alone & I had no way to rehitch up so I was forced leaving the tractor there on the side of the road while I drove down the road a few miles to an area that had cell service. I was praying that no theif's come by while i was gone! ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2008-09-26          156874


GG: Maybe next (if there is a next time), take the tractor off the trailer, hitch the trailer to the tractor and load the truck. Then yer off! My 33hp hydro NH can easily pull a fully-loaded 15,000 GVW trailer. ....

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grassgod
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2008-09-26          156876


Earth - That is a great Idea however I had the backhoe on at the time. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2008-09-26          156877


I've pulled many a trailer into/out of backyards where I couldn't get a truck with my medium-size backhoe. Just hooked the safety chains together and hooked them to the BH bucket teeth.

Shoot, you could even pull it backward with a hole for the hitch ball in the front bucket (I did that too ONCE but pulled the ball clean out of the bucket since I couldn't keep the attitude of the bucket to the trailer correct)

Anywho... seriously though, I read about a guy up Murf's way that welded a hitch ball to the back of his BH bucket and installed a tow bar on the front of his pickup. What he would do is drive the backhoe to the job with truck in tow. Once at the job, and done for the day he'd leave the backhoe there and drive the truck home.

And having a ball on the back of a BH bucket is not only handy for placing trailers in/on/over obstacles to keep thieves at bay, but it's handy for hooking a chain or rope onto. ....

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grassgod
Join Date: Apr 2004
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2008-09-26          156881


Interesting! Now a days I have a reciever hitch mounted on the top of my bucket loader & I am able to slide in whatever I want to use that day - sometimes I use the pintle or other times I use a drop down with a 2 inch ball to move the log splitter with. It's uses are unlimited! Thanks for sharing the interesting story about the guy that towed his truck with his BH! :) ....

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Paul161
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 12 Loris, SC and Locust Grove, Oklahoma
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2009-03-16          161094


Who in their right mind would be pulling a home built tag along trailer at 75 MPH? ....

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grassgod
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2009-03-16          161098


Who in the right mind as a newby member of this site would ask this to a member who has been on here since the site began? ....

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Paul161
Join Date: Mar 2009
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2009-03-16          161099


Quote:
Originally Posted by grassgod | view 161098
Who in the right mind as a newby member of this site would ask this to a member who has been on here since the site began?


AND THAT MAKES IT OK????? I have a CDL and have driven tractor and trailers for over 35 years, Accident free! No brag, just fact! I'm a member of the million mile club, if you know what that means! I,ve seen what can result over a situation like this many, many, times. Ive seen a lot of innocent dead people over the years because of idiot driving. So I guess in your eyes, it's ok and a NEWBIE!!!! has no right to say anything about it. I hope this mentality doesn't carry throughout the rest of this site. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
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2009-03-16          161104


Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul161 | view 161094
Who in their right mind would be pulling a home built tag along trailer at 75 MPH?


Well, you've got to respect a guy who comes on here and fesses up to a terrifying mistake that others can learn from. Everyone has done boneheaded things from time to time. Like thinking they could make it to the next gas station on fumes and having the engine stall in the middle of an intersection, or forgetting to turn their lights on, or driving down the road with the endless blinker flashing, or the commercial triple trailer rigs tailgating subcompacts at 65mph on I-5. ....

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Murf
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2009-03-16          161110


Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul161 | view 161094
Who in their right mind would be pulling a home built tag along trailer at 75 MPH?


I guess the inference in that is that "home-built" equals "junk", or at least "poor quality & unsafe".

I have several "home-built" trailers, I wouldn't hesitate to pull them thousands of miles at 75mph, in fact I have. One of them has been the 3,000 miles (round trip) to Florida once a year for the 15 years since it was made. It also goes another ~10-15k miles a year around here. It's probably the nicest riding trailer I've ever had the pleasure of pulling in my life.

I've also seen plenty of "factory built" trailers I wouldn't tow to the dump for it's last trip.

Best of luck. ....

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grassgod
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2009-03-16          161113


Murf - Good Point & well said Murf!

Paul - I think the way you represented yourself was little rough. Perhaps you could have worded it : I would be a little cautious & hesitant towing a homemade trailer at 75 mph depending on how it was built. ....

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kthompson
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2009-03-16          161120


Quote:
Originally Posted by grassgod | view 161113
Murf - Good Point & well said Murf! Paul - I think the way you represented yourself was little rough. Perhaps you could have worded it : I would be a little cautious & hesitant towing a homemade trailer at 75 mph depending on how it was built.


Paul can speak for himself but to me it was the type (bumper pull) and the speed he was asking about. I have not done a lot of gooseneck pulling but know some who do or 5th wheel and they often say 60 or so with bumper pull is limit where those two designs are good for higher speeds. Only repeating there. For me, 60 mph for most loads I have pulled is fast enough. Have pulled gooseneck on Interstate at 75 with smooth results but very stable load and rig. To the point tire going slack was not felt. :-( ....

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cutter
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2009-03-16          161139


Everything is relative to something else isn't it? ;) ....

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earthwrks
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2009-03-16          161140


"Who in the right mind as a newby member of this site would ask this to a member who has been on here since the site began?"

Answer: The SAME guy that insists you need a machine heavier than the dump trailer to pull it in turns.

How utterly obsurd, misinformed and irresponsible.

But I'm jis' sayin' ....

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DRankin
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2009-03-17          161151


Quote:
Originally Posted by earthwrks | view 161140
"Answer: The SAME guy that insists you need a machine heavier than the dump trailer to pull it in turns. How utterly obsurd, misinformed and irresponsible. But I'm jis' sayin'


Well I think there is a point of discussion here. I tried for a couple of years to rig up a trailer that would carry a 225 gallon water tank behind my tractor.

Everything I tried, including a steerable wagon running-gear, pushed the rear end of the tractor into a jack-knife on downhill turns.

In math terms, that was a 400 pound trailer with a 1875 pound load pushing a 3500 pound (ballasted operating weight) tractor sideways into the sagebrush with great regularity.

I finally solved the problem by going to a water tank half the size.........

....

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Murf
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2009-03-17          161152


Quote:
Originally Posted by DRankin | view 161151
I finally solved the problem by going to a water tank half the size.........


I don't recall anything about this, but wouldn't have brakes on the trailer have been the relatively easy solution?

Hydraulic surge brakes would work, but IMHO electrics would have been a more workable solution. Surge brakes aren't very effective when the trailer is at an angle to the tow vehicle.

We use electric brakes quite successfully behind tractors to prevent just such a problem.

Best of luck. ....

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earthwrks
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2009-03-17          161153


Unlike your situation, gravity wasn't part of the equation with Mr. Paul.

Buuuuut if you had brakes on the trailer you would be extolling the virtues of a CUT---I gotta think. Yes?

But I'm jis' sayin' ....

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kthompson
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2009-03-17          161163


I understand when pulling there is an advantage to a heavier truck or tractor than to one that is (too) light especially if no brakes on the trailer. Not trying to discunt nor make any more of that but have a question of those who know the big rigs...what kind of weight are those big trucks and what kind of load do they haul? When you get to the double trailers any idea on the amount of load they run? ....

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DRankin
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2009-03-17          161167


Hey Murf.... brakes? Maybe, maybe not. I drive around in low range at just about the same speed whether up-hill or down. Not sure how the brakes would "know" when to activate as I use the HST for stopping, not the tractor brakes. Manual switch? Maybe.... but by the time I would think I need it I am in the ditch, so to speak.

I suspect the loose sand and gravels I was driving on played a part in the towing instability.

EW.... I agree that gravity is the other wild card in this game and now that I think about it, I can transport my empty flatbed @ 2000 lbs and the unloaded dump trailer which is even heavier, down the same hill quite safely. So there must be some load geometry in play. The empty trailers present loads that are much further back than the water tank.

The water tank set-up was about emergency fire fighting during our summer lightning season, so the whole thing might have to do some limited brush busting to get on scene.

If I could have solved the problem with the trailer I would probably have run into traction issues on the sandy uphill pulls.

So I split the load. I figured 225 gallons might buy me some time until the big boys in the yellow truck get here, so I currently carry 125 gallons on a two wheeled trailer and a 65 gallon tank on the front forks.

Close enough.... and enough weight on the front axle to boost the traction on the sand dunes and gravel........
....

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Murf
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2009-03-17          161170


Quote:
Originally Posted by DRankin | view 161167
Hey Murf.... brakes? Maybe, maybe not. I drive around in low range at just about the same speed whether up-hill or down. Not sure how the brakes would "know" when to activate as I use the HST for stopping, not the tractor brakes.


No Mark, you're think of an inertial type brake controller, probably like what you would have in your truck. A pendulum reacts your vehicle stopping and applies the brakes.

We use a mechanical version called a 'time delay' type. The unit reacts to 12 volts on the trigger wire (brake light circuit) and after a preset delay period, applies a preset amount of braking power to the brakes. Both delay and amount of power are easily set on the unit. We mount them under the hood in a water-proof box.

The actuation is is caused by (depending on our application) either by a micro-switch on the brake linkage, or a push button, or both.

The other option would be to move the load a long way forward on the trailer, shifting a lot more of the weight onto the tractors rear end.

Maybe a combination of both?

Your other option is to skip the trailer altogether and use a saddle tank setup like those used on bigger Ag. units. You put a 50 or 100 gallon tank alongside the tractor on an underslung frame. If you carry the weight it adds traction, not diminishes it.

Best of luck. ....

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kwschumm
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2009-03-17          161175


Not sure what's available from JD for the 4115 but for the 4310 they sell a standard round trailer connector kit that probably has a brake pin. I've only used the +/- so far for powering an electric sprayer. ....

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harvey
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2009-03-17          161178


KT Big Rigs run a wide range of weights. The lightest 34,000 rears single wide tires truck as light as 16,000 to 20,000lbs they will pull trailers to 60,000 gross 80,000.

Our trucks are very heavy 24,000 to 26,000 4 axle tractors double framed 500hp 18 spd trans 46,000 rears and 3 axle trailers. 44,000 light weight and good to 117,000 lbs gross on state highways.

Our trucks are little compaired to the Michigan big boys.

In NY the Thruway 53' doubles can weight to 130,000+ (I think).

I trust my homemade trailes very much I liked Murf's thoughts.

Harvey ....

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earthwrks
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2009-03-17          161180


Yup Harvey and that's why our roads are so torn up. And those (Murf cover your ears) Canadian trash haulers which can haul 100 cubic yards. Some steel haulers (I think) have sometimes 9 axles. ....

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kthompson
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2009-03-18          161198


Harvey, thanks.
A few years ago I worked for a heavy equipment manufacturer. The rigs that got my attention were from Texas. No idea now of the accurate number of axles they had but all or most weight was on the trailer as the trailer had it own load supporting front axles and it own fifth wheel. Little over kill for what they picked up from our plant but sure was impressive when they pulled in.
....

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harvey
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2009-03-18          161204


For me it's JOB SECURITY! The public screams about the trucks. When you look at the road permits, fuel, registrations, special permits, hazmat fees, and all the taxes I think the industry more than pays its fair share.

I agree some roads are better left to bicycles. But how much do they pay? Now who's gonna pay to fix them? ....

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Murf
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2009-03-18          161206


Quote:
Originally Posted by earthwrks | view 161180
Yup Harvey and that's why our roads are so torn up.


Nope, not even close Jeff.

They're torn up because successive Governments have taken the money collected for roads and squandered it on everything but that!

For example, in Michigan the State Road Tax is $0.19 / gallon for gas, and $0.15 / gallon on diesel. That brought in just shy of a BILLION ($897 million) dollars in 2006. On top of that, the Feds hand over 92% of the Federal money collected in the state. The Fed tax rate is almost the same, so another $900 million there.

On top of that, they levy a 6% sales tax. Considering the above two the sales tax should then be around $300 million.

Even if we say that the plate and transfer fees go somewhere else, the state collected about $2.1 BILLION dollars.

Problem is in that same year, they only spent about half that much on the roads.

I suspect if they spent the money being collected for roads, ON THE ROADS, they wouldn't be so bad.

Best of luck. ....

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kwschumm
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2009-03-18          161208


The do-gooders here spend most of the road taxes on BS projects like light rail, bike paths and parks while the roads go unmaintained. They are quite clear - they want to make drivers suffer to get them out of their cars. Of course their solutions offer nothing for the majority who work, pay road taxes and commute to areas in the 99.9% of the region that have no transit service.

But they do feel good about themselves, I guess that's the important thing. ....

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AnnBrush
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2009-03-18          161210


For comparison a full bulk animal feed truck with 8 compartments (the ones that have the auger arm along the top side) weights 48,000 lb (net feed weight). The semi truck will weigh 32,000 for a total gross of 80,000 lb. ....

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Murf
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2009-03-18          161211


Road taxes are amongst the tip of the iceberg of tax ripoffs around here.

Of the property taxes I pay here on my home 25% of that goes to the Board of Education, in my case that amounts to about $4,000/year.

According to published figures, in Ontario anyone who gets paid from tax dollars and makes over $100k/year has their names & salaries published annually, the director of education made $249,126.61, plus $4,602.01 in benefits last year. That does not include paid travel or other 'benefits' not paid directly, such as a car or other 'perks'.

I also pay another ~$6,000 a year to other boards of education where I also own land (excluding the farm). In those cases, since the lands are not a 'principle residence' I could not even enroll a child in those schools if I wanted to.

$10,000/year, this isn't bad for a guy with no children, huh? :(

Best of luck. ....

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earthwrks
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2009-03-18          161215


Murf what I was getting to was due to the extremely heavy trucks--foreign or domestic--they are tearing up the roads. It's been within the last 7 or so years that the State drastically increased the weight limits.

I live off a 5-lane highway (US-24) where the roads are sunken from truck traffic--think ruts. This road is nearly a hundred years old and over a foot thick just in concrete and asphalt--in some places even thicker. Where the trucks make their way to the landfill--from Canuckistan--the roadway is actually bermed up from making turns with all that weight.

Just yesterday another contractor and I were discussing this same issue and he mentioned one of his buddies was cited for being 18,000 lb. overweight! It's not uncommon to see gross weights placarded on cement trucks of 130,000--that particular truck is rated for 9-cubic yards. He's been pulled over so many times by the Weigh Master that the owner had "9 LEGAL Cubic Yards" painted on the cab to discourage such stops. These front-unloader trucks are the ones that run the big super-singles all around, all-wheel- drive, and 5-axles.

My pickup is considered "commercial" and as such the lowest "Elected Gross Weight" license plate I can get is a 24,000 lb. which costs $491 a year. And it's going up next year. ....

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Murf
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2009-03-18          161218


Quote:
Originally Posted by earthwrks | view 161215
Murf what I was getting to was due to the extremely heavy trucks--foreign or domestic--they are tearing up the roads.


I think you missed my point though Jeff, plate fees, including the PRP remittances and fuel taxes paid by those very Cannuckistanian trucks are what created the $1 bilion/year surplus that they are NOT using to fix and maintain the roads. Instead they got used to using it for something else, now the roads are shot and there's no money to fix them.

Robbing Peter to pay Paul, except now Peter is broke, and Paul is leaving because they can't afford to pay him anymore.

Best of luck. ....

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earthwrks
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2009-03-18          161229


I'm not up on what the costs are to commercial vehicles crossing the bridge and using our roads, or vice versa.

Never really thought about it, nor has anyone I've spoken to about it like local authorities or other contractors. I guess the assumption was Canadian CV got to use our roads for free.

I'm all ears! And I'm sitting down. :) ....

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Murf
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2009-03-18          161235


PRP plates are just as the name implies "Pro Rated Plates", the fees are split up based on where the truck runs and divided out based on mileage.

In simple terms, if an Ontario PRP plated truck does 50% of it's mileage in Ontario, and 50% in Michigan, the license fees get split that way too.

Fuel taxes work the same way too, the days of big tanks and buying all your fuel in 'cheap' states are gone too. That's why the fuel tax stickers are required, to show that you are in compliance.

Best of luck. ....

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grassgod
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2009-03-18          161241


Robbing Peter to pay Paul, except now Peter is broke, and Paul is leaving because they can't afford to pay him anymore.


Hahaha Murf....so true! :) ....

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kthompson
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2009-03-19          161248


Murf, on the line of paying fuel tax and such pro rated to the state the truck is driven in. I was surprised a few years back to find that out. Talking with an independent trucking who kept his odometer reading as he hit each state line. Told me at that time how much it saved him rather that just us the ratio who ever the government agency is provides.

I don't have problem understanding some road beds can not support loads that are running on them today. But if that is true who is responible for that? If the government approves a certain limit and it is their roads, are they not suppose to know what they are capable of and not? ....

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Murf
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2009-03-19          161249


Quote:
Originally Posted by kthompson | view 161248
I don't have problem understanding some road beds can not support loads that are running on them today. But if that is true who is responible for that? If the government approves a certain limit and it is their roads, are they not suppose to know what they are capable of and not?


The problem isn't really the load Kenny, as the weight of the truck goes up, so to must the number of axles carrying it. The regs limit the amount of weight that each axle can transmit to the road (carry).

The theory is that it shouldn't matter if you have 10 trucks with 4 axles each carrying 60,000 pounds, or 5 trucks with 8 axles each carrying 120,000 pounds. Each axle is still just carrying 15,000 pounds, and there are still only 40 axles passing over the road.

The problem is when the Government takes the extra money as a windfall and spends it somewhere else instead of banking it for the repair or replacement of the road it was ear-marked for.

Governments the world over do this, but I also see individuals doing too. Cars and trucks wear out, but nobody accrues for it. I see it constantly in the aircraft world, people think that if they fly for 5 hours and it takes 60 gallons of gas to do that, that's the cost. But then they get to the point where the engine is in need of a rebuild, they are facing a $15,000 bill, and don't have the money because they were working on the basis that the aircraft cost the equivalent of 12gal./hour times the price of fuel, instead of adding the $15/hour (or whatever amount) the engine would cost to overhaul.

Good to see you back around Steve.

Best of luck. ....

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grassgod
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2009-03-19          161252


Thanks Tedd, I am impressed that you remembered my name :) ....

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earthwrks
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2009-03-19          161254


Murf: "Accruing"--do you mean amoritize (amortise, eh?)?

Murf, in practice (or practise :) ) those extra axles have been shown to set up a vibration frequency which has the effect of pulverizing the roadway. I believe it was Michigan State U. that did the study. It was on TV as an expose'.

When I was going back and forth to New Orleans from 'sippi, the LA Motor Carrier Enforcement said they were citing commercial vehicles if they did not have fuel reciepts. 'sippi said they don't enforce it. It's all a big tangle and jumble of laws that overlap and some that don't. Some enforced; some not.

And it bears saying that during and after a disaster, the Feds can request states suspend certain DOT laws/regs. After the request expires then staets go full bore to revover lost revenue. I gots the t-shirt! ....

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Murf
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2009-03-19          161255


Steve, hey, what can I say, I couldn't tell you what I had for dinner last night, but I recall your name. Old age?

Jeff, no "accruing" was the right word. From my dictionary "to accumulate or be added periodically transitive verb: to accumulate or have due after a period of time ".

I think the relaxing after a disaster is more likely to do with not wanting to upset the Feds (FEMA) by getting in the way of relief aid. I have a buddy who normally flys for charities in Africa, getting doctors and relief in & out of remote areas. He happened to be in the US on leave when Katrina hit. He flew waaaaaay more more hours than he would normally be allowed to because the Feds had suspended the rules in the days afterward till things normalized.

Best of luck. ....

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AnnBrush
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2009-03-19          161257


Never think it cant be worse. Living in South Africa in the early 90's I was paying and effective 52% tax rate and I got very little for it. Kids would have had to go to a private school (state education is very poor). Salary taxed, benefits taxed, company car taxed, property taxed the lot.

In the US we run a deficit so we aren't paying sufficient tax to support this level of govt. NO I am NOT starting a Rep vs Dem flame and in any case this statement applies to both parties.

In general folk in the US get a pretty good deal and pay relatively little tax for the level of govt services we get. ....

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Hettric
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2009-03-20          161265


Murf, I want to know how you get away with "only" 25% of your property taxes going to the schools.
I'm in Massachusetts, 70% of my property tax goes to the schools.(I am without kids) ....

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Murf
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2009-03-20          161268


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hettric | view 161265
Murf, I want to know how you get away with "only" 25% of your property taxes going to the schools.I'm in Massachusetts, 70% of my property tax goes to the schools.(I am without kids)


Move to Ontario? :)



Best of luck. ....

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Hettric
Join Date: Mar 2004
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2009-03-20          161269


Good idea! ....

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kthompson
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2009-03-20          161271


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hettric | view 161265
Murf, I want to know how you get away with "only" 25% of your property taxes going to the schools.I'm in Massachusetts, 70% of my property tax goes to the schools.(I am without kids)


No way can answer for your area but in our state (South Carolina) the schools collect a lot from property taxes. Not idea what each county if doing on this but some have gone with sales tax to at least partly fund the schools and run lower ratios than other counties do. Very well remember when our school percentage was about half what is currently is. Then our school board (which sets it owns budget with no input, hearings or oversight) decided we needed if not all new schools a lot of them. So we built them and closed some which were in good condition to allow them to sit to be sold for next to nothing. One building was allowed to sit long enough the roof fell in before they sold it. Sure it sold cheap but guess what, new roof and the walls and all other structure (brick and block walls) were sufficient to become a nice private owned apartment building. Any questions asked on that, nope? ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2009-03-20          161282


Kenny, in SC so far as education-spending goes, what do you think has been happening to the funds that should have been going to teach (or "learn ya'll" as you'd say) english, spelling and grammar? Or, maybe they're relying on good-natured Yankees to step up to the plate and learn ya on venues like dis. :)

Gotta love me--'cause you can't shoot me. Well, OK, you can but... ....

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magicheater
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 29 Wisconsin
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2009-04-26          162331


I live in Wisconsin and the speed limit is 55 unless you are on the interstate. ....

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kthompson
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2009-04-27          162345


Quote:
Originally Posted by earthwrks | view 161282
Kenny, in SC so far as education-spending goes, what do you think has been happening to the funds that should have been going to teach (or "learn ya'll" as you'd say) english, spelling and grammar? Or, maybe they're relying on good-natured Yankees to step up to the plate and learn ya on venues like dis. :) Gotta love me--'cause you can't shoot me. Well, OK, you can but...


EW, per the Bible I have to love you..but no where does it say I have to "like" you. Ouch.. But you are in my top ten of people from Michigan who go around is almost circles with lace for a sunscreen on their tractor. (best laugh I have had in a while.) ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2009-04-27          162361


Wow that reply didn't take you long---what a month and a week? I forgot I even wrote that.

Glad I put a smile on yer face. This daaang Yankee IS good for something after all (though I knew it all along) LOL. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7142 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2009-04-28          162371


Quote:
Originally Posted by earthwrks | view 162361
Glad I put a smile on yer face. This daaang Yankee IS good for something after all (though I knew it all along) LOL.


Yup, count that as a two fer' Jeff.

You're the only guy I can think of that thinks of snow blowers on the first really hot day of the season! LOL

Best of luck. ....

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earthwrks
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2009-04-29          162391


Just so EVERYONE ELSE is up to speed, Murf's referring to an email I recently sent him about a nice, $1250 skid steer-mounted hydraulically-powered snow blower for sale locally (to me) I found on Craigslist.

My bad (sniffle)

Being the NICE guy I am, and the tightwad Murf is, I thought he'd really appreciate the lead (read: jump and down with glee). Buuuut, sadly, I was wrong. 'parently Murf's got soooo much money that he'd rather pay MORE in-season. 'round here, we have a saying that goes: "NOBODY buys a boat in the spring (or you'll pay more than in the fall or winter).

Man, if I had feelings they'd be hurt--I'm jis' sayin'.

I'm o o ok (sniffle) k k k kay (sniffle). I'll be in my (chat) room.

....

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kthompson
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2009-04-30          162434


(read: jump and down with glee).


OK Mr. does not make mistakes in your typing... please what kind of action is this Murf was suppose to do? Just asking. ....

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earthwrks
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2009-04-30          162440


Wow Kenny you are full of surprises--when did you learn how to proofread (or for that matter, read? tehehehe)?

Ooops my "Freudian slip" was showing LOL Maybe I was thinking: "jump" off a cliff and fall "down"--so "up" wash't in my forethoughts.

The OTHER meaning would have been "jump and down with glee", yeah that's it, LOL ....

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kthompson
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2009-05-01          162457


Quote:
Originally Posted by earthwrks | view 162440
Wow Kenny you are full of surprises--when did you learn how to proofread (or for that matter, read? tehehehe)? Ooops my "Freudian slip" was showing LOL Maybe I was thinking: "jump" off a cliff and fall "down"--so "up" wash't in my forethoughts.The OTHER meaning would have been "jump and down with glee", yeah that's it, LOL


If that last one is correct for YOUR part of the world then stick with it. Here we would want "UP" in it.

FYI, I was told years ago in sales or speaking you must keep people interested. So I learned to spell differently for people like to to pay attention. ;)

Did you buy that? ....

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ir1moark
Join Date: May 2009
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2009-05-10          162654


I know of three trailers I have owned that have came off. #1 was a evenrude boat& trailer came off in Ky. The hitch had a spring loaded knob to lock it down and the spring broke allowing the knob to unscrew. The trailer was attached to a friends jacked up truck without the safty chains. (Ky does not require them) Trailer came off at 45mph and I tried to stop it by braking, it ran under the truck lifted it off ground and then set it back down veared rt and ramed a chev vega setting in a station drive waiting to pullout and the boat broke loose and slid up on top to the car. We all lucked out, The guy in the vega was not hurt and wanted a new car anyway, the boat and trailer had minor damage and after the scare was over all concerned had a great laugh. The #2 was my sons turn, 1500 gal water trailer broke pin in reese hitch and ball, hitch, trailer loaded with water went into trees along side rural road in Mississippi where it wiped out 20 trees and totaled out the water trailer at 55mph. #3 dimwit hired man jackknifed 1200gal water trailer backing it up and broke the weld on the tong lost trailer on the way to a job. I found him with the trailer hitch still attached to the truck. What was so bad he only had 500 gal of water, drove 4 miles, went through two stop signs, made two turns, met two school busses before he realised the trailer was not behind him!! Duh? what are mirrors for? not counting the jirking of sloshing water!! The trailer had crossed a bridge left the road on the wrong side and overturned in a field. that could have been a major disaster had it hit a school bus. ....

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kthompson
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2009-05-11          162663


ir, you were blessed in the aftermath of them coming lose.

A few years back I had a trailer to come loose my father in law was pulling that had a safe and guided landing also. The locking pin was not installed and my sister in law realized it but said nothing and the safety chain was bolted to the trailer and the bolt(s) sheared. Lost a $5 pin and maybe $10 of material from load on trailer. All in all, very good ending to what could have been bad. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2009-05-11          162670


Dangit Kenny, it's LOOSE (pronounced luce) not LOSE (luze). Say it with me, 'k? ....

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ir1moark
Join Date: May 2009
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2009-05-11          162680


AMEN! KT. I though I was in deep hocky when the KY HP showed up, He just shook his head and laughed when he found out no one was hurt and said I was lucky not to have hooked the chains as he had a heavy boat jack knife with him and drag his new pickup into the woods and reveine backwards. He also made the statement that he cut all chains now(if they are required) to make them break so if it ever happens again he can get away from the mess. ....

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earthwrks
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2009-05-12          162706


You gotta be kidding!

Your butt may get "saved" (until you get sued) but what about the other innocent drivers/passengers that could be hit by it? That's why we have trucking laws.

I have a buddy who was held 1/3 responsible in a $3 million jury-award due to a landscaping trailer he worked on coming off the truck's hitch and killing someone.

His part of the lawsuit was $980,000--and his insurance would not cover it. ....

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ir1moark
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2009-05-12          162717


That's the trouble with this world now. Too damed many lawers and sue happy people who want to chase ambulance's. That is good enough excuse to be a LLC and be sue proof by keeping the company nearly broke then have a very good insurance pol that will cover a reasonable claim and let the rest go to H---!! ....

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Murf
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2009-05-13          162723


Quote:
Originally Posted by ir1moark | view 162717
That is good enough excuse to be a LLC and be sue proof by keeping the company nearly broke then have a very good insurance pol that will cover a reasonable claim and let the rest go to H---!!


That doesn't work if they can find even a shred of negligence (or what they think is anyway) they can go around the LLC in a heart beat, especially if the 'company' is one person.

Best of luck. ....

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kthompson
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2009-05-13          162727


Quote:
Originally Posted by Murf | view 162723
That doesn't work if they can find even a shred of negligence (or what they think is anyway) they can go around the LLC in a heart beat, especially if the 'company' is one person.Best of luck.


I have been told that an LLC gives very little real protection and yes I have one but it does give some. My guess is if the trailer or truck belong to the person by name, they would be in trouble. ....

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earthwrks
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2009-05-13          162729


Glossary: PAD means Personal Attack Deleted by moderator

Here we go again. Yet another [PAD] who says whatever they want and present it as Truth with absolutely no basis in fact, or experience, nor logic let alone responsibility or accountability.

This would be funny if it weren't so sad.

Moark, if I take your ill-formed statement at face-value (think: like any good prosecutor would) you're telling me you can doing any damned illegal and immoral thing you want and hide behind the so-called corporate veil AND think that the insurance company will pick up the pieces.

[PAD]

BTW, LOL should anything happen even remotely like what you have described and you're involved, about tow chains and trailers and someone gets maimed or killed [PAD]--there's something in the Law called Public Domain and your IP address--which you are on right now---and buddy you're virtual "finger prints" are all over this thing. [PAD]

So now you have gone from "simple negligence" to "intent"-- as in "voluntary man slaughter"--of which there IS NO defense.

[PAD] ....

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ir1moark
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2009-05-13          162731


[PAD]. Things like I described did happen and I have photo proof of it BUT that was in the 70:s when the world was going nuts before everyone went sue happy. [PAD] ....

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ir1moark
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2009-05-13          162732


I forgot, I am an old man now and I have never, never hurt or injured any one by some stupid move but I almost died preventing one stupid accident and I didn;t sue anyone even tho I ended up in surgery with abroken back and disabled for 18 months. [PAD] ....

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ir1moark
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2009-05-13          162733


KT, you are right but the LLC does protect the owner from stupid mistakes and accidents caused by a hired employee. If you, the owner are the operator you are out on a limb with no protection because you can be sued by anyone for anything. ....

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