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Dealer out to lunch

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lbrown59
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2006-09-06          134022


JD Dealer out to lunch and ain't comming back.
I went to look at JD Garden Tractors and the dealer has went out of business.
JD sales must be way off.
---->>PS:
Say it's worse than I thought.
I went to the other local JD Dealer and they have closed up shop too.
JD must really be hurting.



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JasonR
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2006-09-06          134025


Maybe the local dealers, but the corporation is doing rather well (NYSE symbol DE)...

My guess is the flood of Deere garden tractors at Lowes and Home Depot was the tipping point from profit to loss at a lot of Deere Dealers.

- Jason

....

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earthwrks
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2006-09-06          134034


Maybe it's like what Ford Motor is doing by reducing the number of dealers nationwide so that less dealers make more money, as was reported in the news about two weeks ago. In Michigan after a New Holland dealer went out business, New holland got really pickey who they wanted to sell their product. In one case, after 47 years my dealer changed hands from one cousin to second cousins. That wasn't good enough. NH made the new cousins come up with $3.2 million in liquid assets to buy the franchise, which started at $300,000 when a grandson wanted the biz. 3 months later they upped the ante to $600,000. That's when the grandson backed out. In another case a NH dealer was bought by a big road building contractor who bought the dealership to buy his equipment at a discount. He did that and closed the biz. Reportedly, that's what started NH's bad taste in their mouth.
Nowadays, with big corporate bonuses one never knows what lurkes in the minds of those in boardrooms. ....

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lbrown59
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2006-09-07          134038




The bad thing about it is it leaves all the local JD Owners out on a limb holding the bag.
I feel sorry for them and anyone trying to sell his JD.
Four of my next door neighbors have JD garden tractors. I hate it for them too.
I was considering buying a nice JD-G/T from a local guy but changed my mind as I don't want a tractor that I can't get local parts and service for.

----->>
......>>>
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http://www.hubcapcafe.com/ocs/pages01/chev6003.htm ....

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Art White
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2006-09-07          134039


There will always be changes in business no matter what type it is. For older dealers it is hard to keep up with the continual adjustments that need to be done. ....

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Murf
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2006-09-07          134041


It may be another case of related entities too.

A few years back a bunch of the JD dealers around here all got their businesses evaluated, then put them all into one new company, each former owner taking the percentage of the new company corelated to what his dealership represented in the percentage of the new combined company.

The theory was that one big company was much stronger than 6 small dealerships since they could share administration, reduce the number of field service trucks, etc., but the reality of it was that the whole chain got dragged down instead of just one or two stores.

Last year they filed for bankruptcy protection and closed two of the six stores.

Best of luck. ....

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DRankin
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2006-09-07          134043


Around here Deere is pulling their stuff from any dealership that also sells Kubota.

They have taken everything Green away from Gold Country Tractors across the line in KalyFORnia (Arnold-speak). Last I heard the dealership had to sue to get back deposits and such.

The local Kubota/Deere dealer is also under fire from Deere but is holding out.

Both places sell 20 Kubota's for each Deere sold. Deere doesn't like that and blames the dealers for not pushing the Green Machines.

My view: Kubota just sells itself and Deere is running way behind because of quality and marketing problems. ....

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kwschumm
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2006-09-07          134044


I'd expect the dealer to push the product that is most profitable for them. Maybe the price/profit ratio of JDs isn't competitive. If that makes it harder to sell against Kubota then JD has some work to do. Their prices are high and we all know lower prices make for an easier sale. I'm not sure quality is an issue. ....

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Murf
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2006-09-07          134045


Of all the local dealers around here the only one making any money is doing so because he branched out big time into turf care equipment, he told me recently at an industry party that he makes more money on a $10,000 commercial mower than he makes on a $75,000 farm tractor.

Dealers will sell whatever makes them the most money, for the least work and aggravation.

Best of luck. ....

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kthompson
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2006-09-07          134046


It is not just JD. Agco has done some of that recently. Pulled their line from one dealership becaused he also carried another brand (was told it was one brand or the other), but left their product with the Kubota dealership. Amount of notice, same day. So often you just don't know the truth. Based opon the amount of product I see around the dealership who lost the Agco sold more than the one who was allowed to keep it. Both sold Agco, just different labels.
....

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Iowafun
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2006-09-07          134051


You are seeing two things happening. First, the dealers that closed may have taking a pounding due to the units being sold at Lowes/Home Depot. Deere moves a lot of lawn mowers that way, but the dealers get stuck with the warranty work. Everyone know warranty work doesn't pay diddly. Deere dealers really screamed when Deere pulled the move with Home Depot. Good for Deere, bad for dealers.

Secondly, Deere has been pushing hard on their dealers to sell only Deere. So a dealer must choose to sell what is most profitable for them. Duh. I saw that at my local dealer when Deere was in the ATV business. They were pushing my local dealer to stop selling Polaris ATVs and only sell Deere. Dealer refused because they could sell Polaris but couldn't sell the Deere. No one wanted to buy the terrible Deere units. Deere units were made by Bombardier and were the units designed so you could wear you skirt and still ride the ATV. What guy wants an ATV that you can wear a skirt and ride? Bombardier couldn't sell then so what made Deere think they could? Someone at Deere made a really bad decision with that move.

Overall, well run dealers will survive. But those in metro areas that focussed on sales to home owners are getting hurt by the Home Depot deal. One oil filter sold every spring doesn't make up for the loss of a lawn tractor sale. ....

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DenisS
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2006-09-07          134057


Iowa's right.

Undercutting the dealers to sell garden mowers at Home Depot is plain stupid. The only reason people buy John Deer lawn mowers is because of the reputation of their heavy farm equipment. Now, if you force the ag-farm equipment dealers out of business by taking away their lawn mower sales, who's gonna sell the large farm tractors? And if there are no Deer tractors sold, there goes the Deer brand-name recognition and that's the only thing that keeps Deer afloat. Short term gain - long term - outta business. ....

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kwschumm
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2006-09-07          134061


That strategy sounds about right for today's CEOs. Maybe they're outsourcing the wrong people - maybe they should outsource management to Japan and let Americans build, sell and service the machines. ....

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kthompson
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2006-09-08          134081


There are several factors that could be causing a total close of a dealership.
One is not a good product line. This could be poor or over priced product or just no line.
The owners just wanted out due to health, age or for any number of other reasons. They may or may not have tried to find a buyer.
The could be split in the ownership, due to divorce, family or business partners breaking up. Often see these as another generation comes on the scene.
The older dealership may not have had to deal with competition and got lazy or fat in the way they operated or their attitude to employees or customers.
Changes in their area. Less demand or not sufficient demand for the growing overhead. Overhead does normally grow in cost. Insurance, taxes, wages and building cost all increase normally over time.
They have used up all their credit limit and just fold.
Lack of the right employees.
I am sure there are others. In my business I see companies not thinking about who has brought them to where they are, often CEOís only want to see gross growth and donít think of net growth. If they raise the gross sales by 10% their bonuses reflect that. Regardless whether or not the profit margins increased or decreased. (I think Disney a few years ago is a great example of this.) Often a CEO is brought in to get a company looking good to be sold. They are only there to make it look good on paper. Little thought or concern for the long term benefit of the company as the major owners are just wanting to take all profit they can and get out.
....

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kwschumm
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2006-09-08          134084


My JD dealer used to be in a farm area, now they're in the middle of a city. The city grew up around them. So their farm sales have to be down and their consumer sales should have grown to make up the difference. I'm not sure how well they are doing but I often go there and see no customers so it's a concern. JD selling their small equipment at the nearby Home Despot has to have hurt. ....

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earthwrks
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2006-09-08          134086


KT: Good insight and well put. (applause)

....

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Peters
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2006-09-08          134089


JD seems to be concentrating on image and forgetting they need a product. The garden tractors like the CubCadet's were first quality and the price reflected it.

The market for garden tractors has really boiled down to a few large players with multiple brands. Electrolux and MTD have a laundry list of brands. JD has one that I know of and sells all of its capacity with this one name. Volume normally lowers costs, in order to remain in the garden tractor business JD has decided to go into volume sales at box stores. Their alternative might have been to exit the market, like CNH, Massey and others have, I don't know.

I doubt that the NY stock holders would be patient while they built the market around quality and value like Kubota is.

This has meant that the JD smaller dealerships have gone under. I don't know of any country JD dealership that was relying on garden tractor sales to make profit. But in our are the one that was concentrating on garden tractors has folded. The full line equipment dealer has a new store and new highway location near the airport.

The same thing has happened to the Cub Cadet dealers that just sold lawn equipment. At one time they had exclusivity and now they have to compete with the box stores. Many like my friend in Hamilton are just moving more less expensive brands, like White. ....

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lbrown59
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2006-09-08          134092


1*The market for garden tractors has really boiled down to a few large players with [multiple brands]
2* Electrolux and MTD have a laundry list of brands.
----->>3* Volume normally lowers costs, in order to remain in the garden tractor business JD has decided to go into volume sales at box stores.
......>>>1* I E [same product just different labels]
2*Not Brands Just LABELS
3*But will the volume of low end JD lawn tractors sold at the box stores make up for the lost volume of their Garden tractor Sub cut compact and utility tractors ? ? ?
Somehow I don't foresee folks wanting/needing a sub compact saying to them selves well I can't buy it from a JD dealer so I'll just hop on over to the box store and pick up a cheep low end JD riding mower.
No, they will Get the type tractor they want/need from Kubota or one of JDs other competitors. In which case JD lost both the sale of the that tractor as well as a sale at the box store.
I'm sure my local Kubota dealer will be more than happy to sell to what would have been JD's customer.
I believe JD is Sending more of their customer to their competitors with that move than they are to the Box stores.





....

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kwschumm
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2006-09-08          134093


lbrown, please don't take offense but I find your posts difficult to follow. Quoting generally isn't necessary on a web based forum because the context is available in previous posts. Just one guys friendly opinion. ....

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Murf
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2006-09-08          134094


The irony to this whole subject, IMHO, is that the green mowers they sell in the big box stores are NOT even JD lawn tractors.

They are MTD (or other manuf.) tractors, with a royalty cheque for JD on each mower they sell.

That's why they are "unique" models, and not the same line up you get at a JD store.

Unfortunately, it's just another case of a big company with a solid reputation renting their name to another (usually anonymous) company in order to generate sales and royalties they wouldn't otherwise get.

This is nothing new though, witness the JD (Yanmar) CUT's that have been around for years. Almost all the companies do it.

Best of luck.

....

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Peters
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2006-09-08          134096


I see JD merchandizing in a lot of ways. As I stated the name seems more important than the product. JD is trying to get every dollar from every tee shirt sold and anything with their logo on it. Even the fabric in Walmart. They are concentrating on the merchandizing the name rather than creating good new products the company can be proud of.

Kubota on the other hand is moving slowly to smaller units so you can buy a Kubota garden tractor with Kohler engines or the small diesel. Why would the person need to go to the box store and buy an MTD badged JD and then go to Kubota CUT. He can go to the Kubota dealer and buy one badged Kubota lawn tractor and then trade it in on the CUT. ....

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lbrown59
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2006-09-08          134202


He can go to the Kubota dealer and buy one badged Kubota lawn tractor and then trade it in on the CUT.
*****************
SALES SCORE
Kubota ----- 2
John Deere - 0

----->>
......>>> ....

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Art White
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2006-09-08          134210


Murf, we have a local Cadet dealer and he made the choice not to sell the models that are the same as the box stores. Are they the same? Both Deere and Cadet are the same economy units available at the dealer as well as the box stores. It is up to the dealer as to if they will service the box store units. We hadn't up till just recently signed up to service those units sold at the box stores. We will always take care of the people that bought from us first but it is hard to turn your back on the potential customer that you may gain from the service. For a dealer to loose the ag market it is hard as the dollar volume if compacts doesn't compare with quater million dollar combine or selfpropelled forage harvester sales. ....

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Iowafun
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2006-09-08          134211


Actually Murf, the JD units sold at the big box retailers are designed and built by Deere. Their employees get a magazine and they had a nice article in there about the deisgn process and the changes they had to do to hit the margin and price points. Now the engines are probably some low end supplier. I haven't bothered to look.

Another thing the dealers have against them is they are not allowed to sell the models the big box retailers do. It may be to due to the big box stores getting a trailer load and the dealer doesn't so you look for minimizing costs at avery turn.

The big box deal has helped Deere's production plant out since it has smoothed out production and demand. But it has hurt the dealers that focussed on that product. The good dealers that look to have a broad customer base will and are surviving. Again, smart dealers will survive, bad or stupid ones don't.

It's certainly not an easy market out there and the CUT is only a portion of it. But more and more players want a piece of that market because it's growing. ....

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Iowafun
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2006-09-08          134212


Actually Murf, the JD units sold at the big box retailers are designed and built by Deere. Their employees get a magazine and they had a nice article in there about the deisgn process and the changes they had to do to hit the margin and price points. Now the engines are probably some low end supplier. I haven't bothered to look.

Another thing the dealers have against them is they are not allowed to sell the models the big box retailers do. It may be to due to the big box stores getting a trailer load and the dealer doesn't so you look for minimizing costs at avery turn.

The big box deal has helped Deere's production plant out since it has smoothed out production and demand. But it has hurt the dealers that focussed on that product. The good dealers that look to have a broad customer base will and are surviving. Again, smart dealers will survive, bad or stupid ones don't.

It's certainly not an easy market out there and the CUT is only a portion of it. But more and more players want a piece of that market because it's growing. ....

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SG8NUC
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2006-09-08          134217


KKKKK ....

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lbrown59
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2006-09-08          134219


How come the last post are showing up at the top of the first page????????????????? ....

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lbrown59
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2006-09-08          134220


Why is this last post on the first page?
....

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ncrunch32
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2006-09-09          134226


JD has taken on 2 quite different markets. The high end large tractor market and the high volume low cost lawn mower market. It is unusual for a business to be able to compete in both high volume/low cost and low volume/high end markets. One requires focus on low cost and one requires focus on leading edge proprietary development. This move to Lowes and Home depot is probably a "last gasp" effort to keep the volumes necessary to justify being in the low cost market. JD may decide to quit this low-end market if this move to Lowes and Home Depot does not work out. An exact parallel would be IBM giving up the PC market. ....

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DennisCTB
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2006-09-09          135005


Now I think I have the message order straightened out, lots of fun :--( ....

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lbrown59
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2006-09-09          135013


This is the only time I ever saw it happen on any board. ....

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kwschumm
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2006-09-09          135014


This sort of stuff happens all the times with computer databases. Every database product comes out of the box with reindexing, rebuilding and various database integrity tools. They wouldn't bother if they weren't needed. ....

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yooperpete
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2006-09-11          135030


In my opinion JD and Cub Cadet have made a marketing blunder by selling through box stores and TSC. It will give them short term sales but at a cost. They, however, are selling only low end merchandise there that will not hold up like their premium models. People will forget they bought the cheap stuff when it breaks and won't go back. A JD dealer will sell the same low end product for the same price as the box store. When a customer comes into their store they attempt to steer customers to higher end products. The reputations of both Deere and Cadet are on the line with their low end products. I predict that will "bite them" in the near future. ....

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Art White
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2006-09-11          135034


I think it depends on how it is sold. Don't get me wrong, as the box store salesman told me how they were the exact same as Cadet builds for the dealers! I try to explain to customers when they are are talking of their dads or grandfathers thirty year sucess story that the 1500 dollar units weren't even a glint in the eye of the manufacturer then, but only what today sells for over 5,000. At least that way they are not suprised if they do have failures. We have had good success with them when sold for the right reasons. ....

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Peters
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2006-09-11          135037


To a greater or lessor extent Cub Cadet (CC) does not build the same tractor as it did 30 or more years ago. You can not take a new stock CC and take it to the garden tractor pulls. In fact the only tractors they normally run are the older direct gear IH CC. Not that the hydrostatic direct drive units might not last as long as the older ones. ....

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Art White
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2006-09-11          135040


They have kept up with the rest of them as far as adding to the options. The use of the older Cub tractor chassis was over kill with the rearend! We have a fellow with a 1450 Cadet chassis that has a 350 chevy on a four barel that pulls it! He only uses the nitrous for effect at nite do to the flames but has as of this spring had over 20 pulls and runs it around 6000RPM. ....

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2006-09-11          135043


IMHO Deere etc have captured a large untapped market share by selling models to Big Box retailers. These customers are unlikely to have bought from a Deere (insert your brand of choice here) dealership. The models on offer dont seriously compete with commercial equipment sold at dealerships and dealerships may get a boost providing parts to these owners in the future. The offering of a lawn and garden "Deere" is a good idea capatalizing on the brand name already established. ....

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Murf
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2006-09-11          135049


Ann, the old adage, "It works on paper." seems to apply here.

Up here it has already begun to backfire on JD.

I checked with my local JD dealer, who happens to also be a multi-line commercial turf care equipment dealer, which is why I was there. He said that absolutely the same models are for sale at JD dealers as the box stores, but a growing number of those dealers, himself from inception, are refusing to stock them. They are now being jokingly referred to as a "Lawn Deere".

People are buying them thinking their getting a John Deere, and after just a few seasons they are starting to become maintenance nightmares, and are falling apart. The people then only remember that they bought a Greene machine and it fell apart so don't want another one.

The dealer, who is a friend, told me he has had several long-standing customers who bought a new JD, but in trying to save a buck went to the evil orange empire to get it. They now have a pile of junk, and he is having a heck of a time to convince them to buy a new JD to replace it because of their bad experience.

JD is not the first company to try exploiting their name this way. If it works they will be the first I've seen who were succesful at it.

Best of luck. ....

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2006-09-11          135051


"The people then only remember that they bought a Greene machine and it fell apart so don't want another one".

That was exactly the case with me. Bought my JD L120 at Home Depot, had a bad experience, ended up going for orange when I upgraded to a CUT. ....

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2006-09-11          135052


People are buying them thinking their getting a John Deere, and after just a few seasons they are starting to become maintenance nightmares, and are falling apart. The people then only remember that they bought a Greene machine and it fell apart so don't want another one.
=================
Just like me and MTD ....

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2006-09-11          135060


That was exactly the case with me. Bought my JD L120 at Home Depot, had a bad experience, ended up going for orange when I upgraded to a CUT.
*/*/*/*/*
Like I said in another post JD isn't increasing their sales.
Instead they're sending their customers and prospects to Kubota and their other competitors ....

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2006-09-11          135061


Folks should take a look at the attached article - I am not so dismissive, looks like Deere identified that soley staying with dealerships was leaving a lot behind on the table (for some one else) - Deere's got some bright minds, this looks like it's well thought out. They realized that dealerships can't reach a big part of the market they want to sell to, so they had to change their business model, sure some dealerships will suffer but on the whole Deere gets to sell more and some dealerships can ride that success. Anyway FWIW I personally agree with a lot said in the marketing analysis especially the bits about marketing to women - something few companies in "male dominated industries" do well. It's good reading. ....


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2006-09-11          135062


I will never own another MTD lawn mower what a waste of time and money. You buy it from Wal-Mart and noone wants to work on it, more less do warrenty work. If they do work on it, they want twice what the work is worth. ....

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2006-09-11          135063


ncrunch, made a point about IBM and the PC market. I would point to box store Walmart and the PC manufactures. In the early 90's I bought a new Acer it was a top quality maching and is still serviciable although now slow. Acer then sold in Walmart and it about put them out of business. Next HP moved in to Walmart and its quality took a nose dive. Next E machine went in and it went bankrupt and eventually sold out to Gateway. To me the box store is only looking at the dollar per square footage of store space and could care less about the supplier. For example in Rogers AR Wally World has a store in a warehouse. You take your product and make a display in the store. Wally World may or many not bite and buy. After they look at it they take your display of product and place it in the dumpster. You are out for material, time and costs of dealing with Walmart.
With the tail ruling the dog naturally quality and service suffer in this relationship. Walmart thinks it has the golden road to China, but I am sure the Chinese are looking at ways to cut the Walls out already. ....

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2006-09-11          135064


That was exactly the case with me. Bought my JD L120 at Home Depot, had a bad experience, ended up going for orange when I upgraded to a CUT.
*/*/*/*/*
Like I said in another post JD isn't increasing their sales.
Instead they're sending their customers and prospects to Kubota and their other competitors ....

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2006-09-11          135065


AB,
The only problem with such as the info from JD is, well it is from JD and it may be true or it may be just support for their action. Sadly unless you know, you don't know and I don't know.

As to the way Male Dominated Industries fail to market to women...that goes all kinds of ways. This male has yet to see a supermarket I think was laid out properly. Same for cloths. Then the white man does not relate to the black man who does not understand the Asian man if you listen to some. In my business many decisions are made or influence heavy by females. Some males have a hard time with it. Guess what, some females do terrible in selling to other females. But boy they can sell to a male.

I went with my wife to a craft business totally for the female or gay (I will stand on that.). Told the manager, you need to be next door to the orange box so the husbands have a place to go. Have seen tv viewing area in dress shops here. At least they know the husband are there.

Now for CNH to top JD, move their CUT sales to the dress shops with color matching outfits! Not sure Kubota's orange will allow much choice.

Please I am not bashing any gender or skin color.

This I will say, based upon my limited single green product, their product is at home at such as the orange box. It sure is not the same quality as other brands. No, it not a lawnmower. ....

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2006-09-11          135068


KT
You jest on color matching outfits - but it's so true - look at the amount of JD apparel out there - we are even buying JD frizbees (as evidenced by a picture on this site). The marketing and positioning of a product is as important as the product itself. I have personally heard and seen more adverts for JD on the TV and radio that were placed Home Depot than I ever saw / heard placed by JD. If one thing it is increasing brand awareness of your average consumer. I strongly agree with the statements that their 3000+ dealerships are carefully hidden all over America. ....

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2006-09-11          135069


Ann,

The problem with women-dominated industries (personal care, entertainment, etc.) is that one day a product is in, the next - it's old news. So you never have time to improve on an existing product, never achieve perfection. What you get instead is a constant exchange of one mediocre product after another. And that's just a way of life issue with me.

Add Vlasic Pickles to the list of companies ruined by Walmart: they demanded that Vlasic keep dropping their prices, until Vlasic could no longer produce small size cans of pickles and became completely dependent on Walmart and BJ for all their sales. Their margins suffered and I think they are deceased as a company now. ....

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2006-09-11          135070


In the early ninties Kubota did go with Sears for a couple of years but found that the pricing difference kept the customers away from a high qualtiy mower. So it will work on the low end low price and for the most part many of the people that buy from any of the so called box stores are on the low end for purchase prices and many of them feel they can service the machines on their own for those that don't they have a dealer to fall back on and purchase from one. To think that Maytag and all the rest have offerings in those stores tells you that we are really becoming a disposable group of people if nothing else but for price. Many things are changing with more to come! ....

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2006-09-11          135071


AB,

I think color matching outfits could be hot! Probably more label matching. Even though orange is my tractors we have many green hats, toys, blankets and such.

One of the local JD dealers does a lot of tv ads showing their consumer products. Two of the three JD dealerships in our county are very well displayed. One is very hidden. It only sells turf products.

Was in Tractor Supply Saturday as they were opening the Christmas stuff...boy did they have a lot of Case. Now they have the Christmas colors down...red and green. Just hope they have the right spirit.
....

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JasonR
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2006-09-11          135074


I would guess we'll need to resurrect this post in about 5-7 years and see who made the better CEO - posters on this board or the people sitting in the board room.

While 'common sense' and people's experiences appear to point toward JD making a mistake, obviously the powers-at-be think otherwise. I've seen a ton of commercials for the JD garden tractors, so there must be quite the markup on those suckers. My guess is selling 100's of thousands of those makes up for a potential few thousand lost sales of CUT's. (The Lowes by me had at least 60 of them outside a month ago - that inventory was less than 10 the other day.)

Just my 2 cents worth.

- Jason ....

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AnnBrush
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2006-09-11          135077


Perhaps I was not clear in my statement, I said that most male dominated industries do a poor job of marketing their products to women. This is distinctly different from discussions regarding the quality of a product or it's lifecycle. I wanted to refer to the experience of acquiring knowledge on the product, outreach to women by the company making the product, the sales transaction and future expectations as opposed to the product itself. A good example of a bad marketing choice would be a company that thinks a bottle opener is a good promotional gadget to put a logo on - it may be but for men only (how may women have you met that have a bottle opener on their key ring - its far less than the number of men) - if you want to reach women, you have to put it on a makeup mirror or a more gender neutral object like a pen. I think a lot of JD dealerships are extremly akward places for women. Specific examples include: There may be a high countertop (most women are shorter than men) that presents a woman with a large wall to look at instead of seeing the store clerk. The floor or store may be grubby from years of trundeling in lots of dirty / heavy stuff. Sales clerks can be (although not all are) dismissive of women even though the correct sales approach will often lead to a sale. Parts on the shelves dont have prices - you have to ask the sales clerk for a price and some women are intimidated by constantly having to ask (usually a man) for assitance. Notice how JD mowers in the HD stores have their prices clearly marked - at my local deere dealership there is not a price tag to be seen. This diminishes the sales experience for women. I had no idea what a 100 series mower cost before HD started carrying them, even though I have been in my JD dealership numerous times. Models in HD are also presented with a marketing flyer that lists features and benefits as opposed to specs, although some dealerships are doing this as well now - technical specs mean less to women than they do to men. I think what JD is trying to do is reach out to a market segment the dealerships have been unable to reach if that means selling through HD, good luck to them. ....

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2006-09-11          135080


I didn't mean to be dismissive of women consumers; I misunderstood your original post. You're right about service translating into sales, although there are many aspects to service, including parts availability and product knowledge, neither of which can be found at HD.

Again, I base it on my (albeit limited) experience. I went to Home Depot to get a filter and a belt for the JD mower. HD staff told me that I'd have to go to a dealer; of course they didn't even know where the closest dealer was. I finally found the dealer only to be surprised at how much the spare parts cost. In comparison to the price of the mower itself, the parts seemed overpriced. That leaves a bad taste in your mouth; kinda like you've been had by the marketing geniuses at JD. ....

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2006-09-11          135081


AB,

I am not an expert on counter heights but those in tractor dealerships I have seen are about same height at kitchen counter, maybe four feet...just how short or tall are most ladies there? My wife is a cute 5'4". The tractor dealer I deal with most has a lady who works the counter, same height as my wife.

I did not realize not having a price on an item offend just women shoppers. As a male it bugs me. So lets all stay away from all those stores with no prices on the items. Starting with grocery stores here.

As to dirty floors and such...probably about the same things that bother one gender does the other. Now for that bottle cap opener...do they have bottles today that you need an opener for? Not my softdrinks anyway.

Sinple test for anyone...walk into a shop or HD that does not know you dressed like a person who uses that equipement and notice the way you are treated. Then go back to same place wearing dress clothes. Many places will treat you diffrently unless they know you. One JD tractor dealership could not take me serious with dress shirt and tie. Were better to my wife in casual clothes.

What I have noticed, professionals are who you want to deal with. Whether at a big box or local dealership. Jerks can be found at both. ....

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2006-09-11          135086


Hey KT,

Corona is one bottle beer that you will need an opener for, anyway it should be open by the time she brings it to you. LOL Just teasing Ann. ....

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2006-09-11          135088


SG8NUC Says:
I will never own another MTD lawn mower what a waste of time and money.
***********
Me either: One of the worst thing I ever bought. ....

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2006-09-11          135089


That assumes it was opened for him! ....

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2006-09-11          135090


AB
Your the smartest person I know. ....

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DRankin
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2006-09-11          135093


Maybe we can get Ann to run for Pres instead of you-know-who............. ....

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2006-09-12          135100


LB and SG,
Do you know all the brands that MTD make?


At same time who is making Husky now?


AB,
Thinking on how JD is so wise in placing their mowers in HD because the female is more comfortable buying there, wonder why no car company has done this? I sure hear ladies talk about how they hate car dealers. A lot of men do also. ....

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2006-09-12          135104


LB and SG,
1*Do you know all the brands that MTD make?
2*who is making Husky now?=====
************************************************
1*
Bolens
Huskee
Cub Cadet
Troy built
MTD
Yard Machines
PowerCraft
To name a few.
Do you know all that MTD builds?
2*
I don't know of any Husky tractors being built today.
I have 2 Husky tractors a 1966 and a 1967.They were built by FMC Bolens Division.
The Bolens tractors by MTD are not the Same Tractors as those built by FMC Bolens.
There is just no comparison between the 2 Bolens tractors I have and the Box Store Bolens Tractors.



----->> ....

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2006-09-12          135106


Here's a related example: Saturn tried it with their no-haggle transparent price thing "the price on display is what you pay - same price at any dealer" etc etc - they dont however have a large range of vehicles needed to make a big impact, plus their previous marketing pushes had been toward a younger crowd (lets say young enough not to be property owners yet). I happen to have a Saturn (it's about 10 yrs old now) and I always joke - "Saturn, great company pity about the car." but that's another story. ....

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2006-09-12          135107


Do you know all the brands that MTD makes ?
**********************************
They don't build brands - They produce labels! ....

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2006-09-12          135109


From the Husky web site.
"The brands in Forestry and Lawn and garden are Husqvarna, Jonsered, Flymo, McCulloch, Partner, Poulan, Poulan Pro and Weed Eater."
The plant also produces products for other companies and I am not sure what names are on these products.

I agree with Ann there are more appealing methods of marketing and sales. I have been taken and felt cheated the same as everyone else. Personally I have trouble selling any large item as I want to be completely honest with everyone and every old car or tractor has some problems. ....

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2006-09-12          135110


I am not sure who all MTD builds, but there are many. I think Lowes only sells MTD built machines.


As to Husky, does not Electrolux own them now?
....

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2006-09-12          135111


Geez, I stay away a few days and this topic goes nuts.

I agree with Ann Brush that many companies/Industries are terrible at marketing to women. Heck, many companies that depend on sales of toys and products to girls (age 8-14) spend gobs of money on advertising that not only doesn't reach the target audience, but annoys them. There is a big difference in marketing and design. I know someone combined the issue but they are separate. An awesome product designed for women but marketed wrong will do terrible. ut with good marketing, you can take a mediocre product and sell the snot out of it.

We can argue the merits of JD going to the big box stores all day long. But the simple fact is the American consumer has switched to shopping at the Big Box stores and looking for the best brand name at the dirt cheapest price (ala Wally World). So JD was missing an entire customer segement. Has it worked for them? Heck yeah. Will there be some collateral damage? Yes. You simply cannot sell a Deere for $1999 and expect it to last as long as one bought for $7999. They made a choice and felt their brand name was strong enough to survive some disappointed customers. So far it is. And when the economy turns, they'll still be sell the $1999 mower and less of the $7999.

Art White mentioned Maytag in one of his posts being sold at the big box stores. Maytag had to be in them. Sears, Home Depot and Lowes together control 60-65% of the US appliance market. 3 retailers hold that much power. I know, I work for Maytag right up to September 29, 2006 when my employment ends with them because Maytag has ceased to exist since April 2, 2006. Why did they cease to exist? Because the vast majority of American consumers do not care about quality. They want the most features for the lowest price as trained by Wally World. Take your $400 top load washer. Ours was a 20 year life unit being sold alongside a competitor's unit that has only a 5 year life. Does the consumer know? Nope. But the retailer makes a crap load more money on selling the competing 5 year life unit because it costs so much less to make. So what will the big dogs of the appliance market push? Duh, the 5 year one because they make so much more money. The consumer changed, Maytag didn't and now Maytag is dead, gone along with thousands of jobs.

Am I a bit bitter about it, yeah I am. I enjoyed my time there with some great people. Some great products. Now, the stuff out in the market is just junk. Seriously. It is. LG and Samsung are entering the US appliance market. Great looking products. But you better hope you get one of the ones that doesn't need repairing because the Asians don't understand the repair part market in the US. In a nut shell, you can get parts if you are willing to wait months.

I'd better stop ranting now... I have a house to get ready to sell since I lost my job despite finding them $millions in profit. ....

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2006-09-12          135122


Iowafun,

You hit on a major contribution to some of these problems, the people selling the product have no idea what they are selling or there is no sales person, just labels (hey get the paint department guy to tell you about the mower or washer or whatever). In some business all the sales person is there for is to close the sale, not to help the customer make the best decision.

When people are given incomplete information, they can depend on the price being given, so they use that to make the decision. At the same time if say Maytag was designed for 20 years they would be willing to put that in the information it would help some to understand the value. Yet that 20 years would be hard to publish that way as there are many variables as 20 years for a single adult is one thing where 20 years for a house with 10 children another world. Guess they could tell how many loads it life cycle would be.

Whirlpool is one company who has different product labels and the sales people will quickly tell you this machine is made by Whirlpool. But is it the same machine as the one with their name on it? Who knows, not the person in the box store, maybe the guy in the appliance store? Then throw Michelin in there also. Their have their name on a tire ONLY for the manufacture that has no life, but it looks good on at the dealership. Wonder if Michelin has had a back lash over this?

JD could do same thing with mowers...this model expected to last for 200 acres or 1 week and this model or 2000 or 20 years.

Have you noticed the way ZTR mowers are rated for amount they will cut per hour? Some companies use the full cut times the max speed. I am not that good when it comes to mower operation. That was one thing that impressed me about my brand, they gave the numbers that way for the wacky number crunchers and then say they believe 80% or something along that line was more real life.
....

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2006-09-12          135123


SG8NUC and Lbrown59, I also do not own an MTD machine. However I give MTD machines the respect they deserve for creating a relatively rugged machine for very little money. If you don't mind using a coathanger every now and then to fix the machine you can make them work for years. My father, a farmer during his earlier years, would mow 3 acres with our $600 MTD. We mowed high grass, low grass, pond edges, rocks, the pear orchard with the MTD and if it broke a little bit of wire fixed it.

My father used his extra money he saved with his MTD (and other frugal purchases) to buy a vacation home on Cape Cod which appreciated in value over time. My mother is well set today because of my father's propensity for the absolute cheapest equipment that got the job done. ....

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SG8NUC
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2006-09-12          135127


My problem is not with MTD it is in the fact no-one will work on it. I think the most of the Brigs&straton engine if you take care of it (clean, change the oil, good gas, good air)it will last. Mtd needs alot of coathangers. I bought a 9hp pull start snapper 28" rider with bagger 6 years ago the brigs starts on the first pull. It has the original belts and pullies. I changed out the clutch if you are not familar with the Snapper clutch check out their web site 20 min job. I cut 2 and one half acres twice a month winter and summer (winter it picks up leaves 1' deep). This lawn mower was no more expensive than a MTD. QUALITY!!!!!
Toyota good product Then they make LEXUS why. QUALITY.
They are as different as daylight and dark. MTD has a lot of labels. ....

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lbrown59
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2006-09-12          135131


*I think the Brigs&straton engine if you take care of it (clean, change the oil, good gas, good air) it will last.

=========
Among all the faults and problems with My PowerCrap the Brigs&straton engine has been the worst.
Hasn't run right since day one no matter who or how many people worked on it or where it was taken for service and or warranty work.
The best of maintenance has not accomplished anything or resolved the problem.

Nothing like a lemon tractor with a joner engine.

*You left out the most important thing that the Brigs needs which is a decent carburetor
....

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lbrown59
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2006-09-12          135132




If you don't mind using a coat hanger every now and then to fix the machine you can make them work for years.
ncrunch32
================

Among all the faults and problems with My PowerCrap the Brigs & Straton engine has been the worst.
Hasn't run right since day one
* no matter who or how many people worked on it or where it was taken for service and or warranty work.

*AH Ha>>> That must be the problem none of these people could find a big enough coat hanger or they must have ran out of coat hangers.
....

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kwschumm
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2006-09-12          135135


Everyone's experience is different. My Briggs & Stratton and Kohler engines have been far less trouble than the Honda engines so far.

Iowa, you make me feel guilty about NOT buying a Maytag. We bought a set in the mid-80's and they were wonderful machines. When we built a new house we needed undercounter front loaders and looked at Maytag first. They didn't have 'em so we went elsewhere. Ended up with Frigidaire since Consumer Reports top rated them. That was a mistake. We are going to replace them in the next year and would have again looked at Maytag, but if they are gone I guess it will be Bosch. I'm sad about losing yet another fine brand and you losing your job. Best of luck my friend. ....

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SG8NUC
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2006-09-12          135136


IBrown
I had to live with a friend of mine while I waited for my family to join me in Ga. after the move. He worked on brigs as a hobby and that is what we did in our spare time drink beer an work on motors. We had as many as 8 running at one time, the neighbor called and woke us up at 3am to cut them off. Drink and repair responably. I feel at ease working on them. Sometimes they just dont work, that is why they are cheap. The carbs are simple they are all cheap I prefer the ones with the bowls for longer life. I had an 11hp that when you cranked it up, it burned all of the oil and gas in about one minute. The muffler looked like a blow torch about 18" long. Explain that? ....

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Iowafun
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2006-09-13          135152


Thanks KW. It is a shame about Maytag because the new owners like the brand equity but they don't understand the deep meaning behind it. I could go on and on about what happened. But you can't keep restructuring marketing and sales every 3 months and expect the get product out there that will keep up with the marketplace.

If you are willing to spend the money, I'd go with Bosch products. I've looked at their washer. It's expensive, but dang it's built solid. I was impressed.

As for me, I'll be ok. I'm moving back to the Milwaukee area. I hope to find a place with 1-3 acres so I have an excuse to keep the tractor. I really want to keep the tractor. Shoot, I just sent in the last check a month ago. Woohoo!!

As for Briggs and such. Sometimes you just get a turd for a motor. Cheap means it's afordable and sometimes you get stuck with that statistical anomoly that just won't run. Most of the Briggs motors I've had have worked great and I don't even take care of them like I should. And they still keep running. ....

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lbrown59
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2006-09-13          135155


sometimes you get stuck with that statistical anomoly that just won't run.
----->>
......>>>
I think that's what happened on my PowerCraft
....

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ihookem
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2006-09-15          135208


John Deere can pull their products from all the dealers they want. They are going to learn to compete or dealers will sell something else. Sounds like the big three car companies 30 years ago. Now look at all the foreign cars. Big three is still hurting because they demanded loyalty and still sold us junk. JD isn't junk, but it's a turn off to badger dealers. I wanted a 4110 bad, but a Kubota 7510hst was 2,300 dollars cheaper and it's just as good weather JD fans will admit it or not. ....

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kwschumm
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2006-09-15          135210


ihookem, those price differences between orange and green may be due to dealers. In many/most cases I've found the prices between orange and green to be fairly comparable but some dealers just won't deal. ....

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ihookem
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2006-10-07          135785


I know I'm in the JD section, but I don't believe JD is a better tractor than Kubota. I think they are darn equal. Remember Kubota's bread and butter is small diesel tractors, and it shows. They are darn good. JD's bread and butter is in big farm tractors,and it shows. That's why you don't see big Kubota farm equipment. JD is trying to be king at everything including lawn mowers. Doesn't work well. JD can sell to Home Depot but they better sell quality on everything that is labeled JD, even if it means less sales cause if you sell junk to one customer you loose one customer.My dad has two JD lawn mowers. A 120 and a 190? The 120 is a few years old and has had lots of problems. Why he bought another JD is beyond me. Soon he will find they are both junk and should have bought a 495 diesel and would have had something. When they are junk he will get mad and won't buy another green one and will say all JD's are junk. So quality lasts long after the thrill of a cheap price tag. ....

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Art White
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2006-10-08          135788


Wingwiper, we have a local car dealer that runs a lot of ads and actually some people have thought of sueing him do to the number of his ad's everywhere in all medians. Does that mean his cars are better then anyone elses? ....

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