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Forums > Active Threads > Other Tractor Brands > Jinma Farmpro Agracat Nortrac

Post Message Jinma Farmpro Agracat Nortrac

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Jinma Tractors Are They Worth It

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cowboyffa84
Join Date: Jan 2009
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2009-01-14          159467


Ive been Looking for a tractor for 2 years now and im kinda leaning toward a Jinma 454 Their pretty cheap compaired to John Deere, and Kabota,

But my question is for the people that actual have one (ARE THEY REALLY WORTH IT?) I want your oppenion on it.

Does it have enough power to cut tall grass and pull? Do they break down alot or have alot of problems?

I do alot of side jobs that involve debree removal, brush clearing, tearing down houses and removing, cleaning up bricks, shingles, and dirt after new houses are build/remodel.

Im also cirous about a grapple connection for the front end loader will one fit a Jinma 454 and will it have enough power to operate one?

Please respond with your opinions and thoughts

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
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2009-01-14          159468


The answer to the "are they worth it" question lies with the dealer. Unless you have a fully equipped shop and a fair background in diesel mechanics, you're going to want a competent dealer close by - at least for the warranty period. It's handy to have a parts source nearby too, but Jinma parts are readily available all over the internet too.

They are equally or more stout than any 45hp tractor made back in the 50s and 60s. I say this - because that's the sort of technology you can expect. Except for the smog stuff that the EPA requires, these things are just like the utility tractors of old - designed to be fixed in the field.

But your task list concerns me. This is an agricultural utility tractor, not a piece of excavation/construction equipment. For similar money, you can get a 30hp Chinese bulldozer (which can also be optionally outfitted with a removable backhoe).

//greg// ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
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2009-01-15          159475


I don't have one but GregG is right on with the dealer support plus our economy needs a boost not the Chineese economy. ....

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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
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2009-01-15          159476


Depends on what you want and on your luck. Are you old enough to remember when "Made in Japan" meant "Cheap Attempt to Imitate American Quality"? That's where these Chinese items are now. You save lots, get plenty of power, and strong and heavy components. But not the design and assembly care and quality of a Lexus. So you'll need a good manual but may find it was written by someone who knows 20 words of English.

Any unit of that size will take a grapple, and Jinma pumps are strong enough.

Read the blogs on the Chinese Tractor Owners Association for owner experiences. You have to pay a small yearly fee to be able to post questions, worth it if you buy one.
....

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cowboyffa84
Join Date: Jan 2009
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2009-01-16          159538


Well now days 90% of everythig we buy is from a diffrent country, John Deere motors are made in china but the claim its american made its only american assambiled kabota is not american made.

And its not my fault that out ecconmy is down they did it to them selves im just lookin for a cheaper price tractor with enough horse power to do my work.

Ive priced john deere they wanted 20grand for a 30 HP tractor with a loader and Kabota wanted around 15grand for about the same HP. Jinma seems to be the best so far more HP for less money.

So far ive heard good rummor about the brand id just like to know from the people that actualy own one what hey think about it and what to look out for with the tractor. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2009-01-18          159578


I do basically the same work you do. I think you will be looking not only for a tractor but a bobcat (skid steer loader) too. I use both a 33HP New Holland 4x4 tractor and a big 78HP New Holland skid steer with steel tracks. 50% of the time I cna use only one machine or the other. I have an industrial grapple bucket (meaning flat, solid bottom) on the skid steer. It weighs close to 800 lb. I would never use one on any size tractor. The bobcat can spin around with nearly 5,000 lb load---a tractor can't. I tear down homes with it too. The tractor weighs 3,200lb while the bobcat weighs over 8,000. Each has it's limits, especially when it comes to floatation on soft ground--sometimes the tractor will go where the bobcat won't and vice versa. But, again, I could not do the jobs I do with only one machine. ....

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cowboyffa84
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2009-01-19          159595


Well see the thing is i do lot of brush hogging and land scaping to. I dont have alot of money to just go out and buy 2 diffrent peices of equipment I wish I could but cant

I just need something that can pick up alot of brush, lumber, and dirt pluss be able 2 mow 5 acers and up pluss i have 40 acers of farm land that i mow twice a year.

When I talk about tearing down houses I pretty much do most of the work by hand peace by peace and stack al the wood up and i nee something there 2 pick it up in one big grab,

then there are the shingles the thing i hate the most i hate having to rake them all up and load them into my truck bed so yea the tractor isntgonna be used 2 PUSH DOWN the house just pretty much clean up. ....

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kthompson
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2009-01-19          159597


Don't own a Chianese tractor but a few thoughts if I may.

Don't think anyone is really blaming you for the US economy. Much bigger than you or me.

Would expect you to find a lot of flats in tractor tires with house work you describ. No experience with it but you may want to find out about "foam" filled tires. I certainly would not want tires with tubes as they would require breaking down them to repair. Tubeless would get old enough.

With the economy the way it is, you may find a used machine for a great price. Some businesses are really going belly up and some machines do sell right cheap.

Don't forget the equipment you use is a reflection of you and your business. Too nice a machine and some think you charge too much, questionable machine and they think you can not get the job done.

Hope you well in your business. ....

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greg_g
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2009-01-19          159598


I'm sorry, but you're in for a big disappointment if you think a 45hp Jinma can do all that. Even all that Chinese cast steel only makes a 4700 pound tractor, and the hydraulic system is only rated to lift <1700 pounds. A five foot front loader is about all it can handle. And <39 PTO horsepower to mow only twice a year? I use a 6' rotary cutter behind my 45hp KAMA to mow pasture up to six times a year. There are patches of crabgrass that damn near kill the engine. I'd die of boredom mowing 40 acres, 6 feet at a time. Even at a reasonable 1 gallon per hour, that's a lot of fuel.

These Chinese tractors are sturdy little buggers. But for that kind of job list, you need to set your sights a little higher.

//greg// ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2009-01-19          159605


Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_g | view 159598
I use a 6' rotary cutter behind my 45hp KAMA to mow pasture up to six times a year. There are patches of crabgrass that damn near kill the engine.


Greg, something doesn't sound right there.

We use almost the same setup, albeit a different brand, but a horsepower is a horsepower. Although you can tell it's working, it never bogs down like that, and we cut stuff that is eyeball height for the operator sitting on the machine.

Have you got the sharp sides of the blade facing forwards? LOL

Best of luck. ....

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cowboyffa84
Join Date: Jan 2009
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2009-01-19          159608


To be honist with yall i dont believe ppl want a huge peice of equipment in their back yard tearing up and rutting their ground,

I rspect peoples land and wish's if i had 2 carry out the whole house by hand just so i wouldent tear up their grass i would, and sometime that has happened i cut a 30ft pecon tree down behind a house once and they dident want their grass or lawn drove on so i had 2 drag it out by hand peice by peice cost thm alot more but i had 2 respect their propety

alot of th people work for are rich and dont want big bulk equipment sitting in thier yards or in front of their house.

But still noone her has answered my MAIN QUESTON are Jinma 454 any good do they have alot of problems are they worth buying? ....

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greg_g
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2009-01-19          159612


Quote:
Originally Posted by Murf | view 159605
We use almost the same setup, albeit a different brand, but a horsepower is a horsepower. Although you can tell it's working, it never bogs down like that, and we cut stuff that is eyeball height for the operator sitting on the machine.
I have a slip clutch on that RC, so it never actually hurts the tractor. The same combo takes out 4" diameter saplings without batting an eye. But obviously you've never tried to cut 36" Kentucky crabgrass in June. It takes at least six passes from different directions to get it down to the height the RC is actually set to. Fortunately, I don't have too much of the stuff - it's most prevalent where the hay feeders set during winter.

//greg// ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2009-01-19          159613


Unless I missed it, your question was answered in the light that you asked. Any tractor or bobcat is going tear up the lawn--even just turning the wheels will tear it up.
I tore down many homes and picked up many thousands of yards of hurricane debris on the Coast. I was one of many thousands of contractors working there. Not one machine was a tractor of any size with a grapple. They're not made for it.

Greg, I'm with Murf on the brushhogging. My 33HP HST (28 PTO) will breeze through 6 foot weeds, though it's a 5'. Sometimes I get going so fast I forget to watch for manholes/drains, concrete chunks, and dead deer like in subdivision developments and vacant land. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
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2009-01-19          159614


To jump on the bandwagon, my 32hp JD with 5 ft medium duty cutter will chop right through thick patches of 6-8 foot high Scotch Broom entwined with blackberry. Scotch broom is tough stuff, woody with 2-3" trunks, and blackberry is a pretty tough vine. ....

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hardwood
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2009-01-19          159615


Cowboy; You want a straight answer, Are they worth it? No, they aren't. You get what you pay for whether it is a tractor or a loaf of bread. ....

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greg_g
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2009-01-19          159616


Guys - guys - I'm sorry I mentioned it !! My KM454 and 6' slip clutch RC easily deals with (almost) everything that fits under it. Got blackberries and brome here too, plus sericea lespedeza/cedar/pine - and they're no challenge at all. I've even leveled a few rotting tree trunks with it. My rig works just fine - until I drive through a patch of that crabgrass.

The point I was trying to make is that I'd sure as hell hate to do 40 acres with only a six footer.

And I agree, the question has been reasonably answered. I'm guessing the OP isn't too pleased with our suggestions that a 45hp agricultural utility tractor isn't the right tool for the jobs he's described - and that he's holding out for somebody else to pop in and defend his choice.

//greg// ....

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bvance
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2009-01-19          159617


Cowboy,

I don't have any additional advice to offer on your question that hasn't already been offered except this:

Sometimes when folks ask for opinions, all they are looking for is a validation of their own thoughts, and aren't happy when they don't get that validation.

Please don't be offended, hang around this site and you will find that the folks on this board are genuinely helpful and have a lot of really good hands on experiences.

Brian ....

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earthwrks
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2009-01-19          159620


Greg, can you describe the crabgrass that could tax an RC? I can't imagine what it looks like. I mean, we have CG here but it gets no larger than 18" across tendril to tendril and is typically flat and grows close to the ground. If anything, it avoids being cut just for those reasons. ....

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candoarms
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2009-01-19          159622


Cowboyffa84,

I don't have a great deal of experience with the various Chinese tractors, but some of your tasks would certainly be better acheived with a different machine.

If driving over a finished lawn would be detrimental to your business, it might be better to look for a lighter tractor designed primarily for turf work.

Price is sometimes a big factor in making a decision on which tractor to buy, but repairs and downtime should also be figured into the equation.

One of the medium sized Kubota L series tractors, with hydro transmissions, would be excellent for your line of work. If you compare prices, you be might surprised.

See the link below.

Joel ....


Link:   Kubota L3830 tractors for sale

 
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greg_g
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2009-01-19          159623


Quote:
Originally Posted by earthwrks | view 159620
Greg, can you describe the crabgrass that could tax an RC?
You're describing "smooth" crabgrass. What I'm talking about is called "large" or "hairy" crabgrass. Smooth grows typically with turf, and as such tends to crawl because of frequent mowing. But the large stuff out in the pasture has no competition - it grows straight up. And all the "good" grasses get eaten first, before the livestock will even touch it. Sometimes by the time I get to the first cutting, the stuff can already be 3' tall. I don't know how tall it would get if I let it go, but it's invasive - so cut it back at least 3 times a year. The stands are thick, and the water content is high. The RC bogs down simply because it can't discharge the juicy crap fast enough.

//greg// ....

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AnnBrush
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2009-01-20          159636


"But still noone her has answered my MAIN QUESTON are Jinma 454 any good do they have alot of problems are they worth buying?"

It's an impossible question for all the reasons listed above

"are Jinma 454 any good" - define good, what about your service expectations?

"do they have alot of problems" whats a lot - one major per year several minor?

"are they worth buying?" How do you value your money?

Look Deere vs Jinma is a different business model - some have Jinma and do a bunch of stuff themselves order parts through the net and so on, I have a Deere and when it breaks I drive 4 miles to the JD place and they sell me a part or send someone out to fix it.

As a comparison almost all the corn/beans grown around here are planted with major line equipment which as you correctly point out is more expensive. But when you have a 3 day window to get a couple thousand acres in you cant be messing around waiting for parts - the expense of the machine covers the cost of the supporting infrastructure. No one is making a absolute killing ripping you off at Deere, their costs are legitimately higher. You have to decide what business model fits you better. If you flat out can't justify the cost of the Deere then you have to go with Jinma dont you?

Also take a look at this thread - dont know if it would apply to your model but something to consider in the service arena:

....


Link:   Shibaura Manual search

 
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kthompson
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2009-01-20          159639


Cowboy, you may ought to check out renting or leasing what you need job by job. At least until you are sure what type of machine would best suit your needs.

A simple are they worth it on the Chianese brand here is simple...as Ann Bush has said..if you will buy the parts over the net or phone and do the work yourself MAYBE. There are plenty of about any other brand you want but not aware of a Chianese dealership within a hundred miles any direction. At least one with parts and shop.

When you hit a problem with service in the middle of a job and your machine is down for a month for parts the price you paid is very high. ....

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auerbach
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2009-03-13          161022


QUOTE WITHOUT COMMENT from a farm publication that arrived today, in the section "Farmers Nominate Best, Worst Buys"

[re a 2006 Jinma 345 with loader & hoe]

"... has had a blown head gasket, two bad injectors, a split rad tank, blown hyd hose, leaking rear main seal. Three of the backhoe cylinders failed within the first 20 hours of operation. I've had to replace the loader control valve, hoses and quick couplers due to leaks. The valve rockers wore out and new bushings had to be installed. The dealer has been fairly helpful, but this has been an expensive cheap tractor." ....

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greg_g
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2009-03-13          161023


Whereas you may feel that quote may speak for itself, I don't. Been around these Chinese tractors for quite a few years now, have seen issues like this before. And just to put this in perspective - when I go out shopping for a Chinese tractor, Jinma is NOT my #1 pick. I'm speaking on behalf of imported Chinese tractors in general.

But brand name aside - that quote screams of poor maintenance. Absolutely everything there has been highlighted somewhere sometime on the Chinese forums. The majority of cases have usually turned out to be maintenance items; performed incorrectly, or not at all. Owner's manual specifies to re-tighten head gaskets at 50 hours. Skip that - and it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that they'll eventually leak/blow. Head gaskets cause overheating - overheating causes cooling systems leaks. Leaking seals are often cause by failure to regularly tighten nuts/bolts on new equipment. The manual contains specific break-in procedures, which include changing the fluids that come with the tractor. If the original fluids are left in for more than a few operating hours, expect trouble. If the wrong replacement fluids are used, expect trouble. Don't check fluid levels, expect trouble - including worn valve trains. Overheat while oil levels are low - expect more trouble. Run too long with a blown head gasket - expect even more trouble.

I got a good deal ($5500 off list) on a very low hour 35hp Chinese tractor (132 hours) a few years back . But the reason it was a good deal, is because the original owner ran it - right out of the box - for all 132 hours without a lick of maintenance. None, zero, zip, zilch. Just 132 hours of constant loader work. Under close inspection I found nearly every nut and bolt on the thing was loose. Many were simply missing. Broken items were just left hanging (or lying in the field apparently), the head gasket was shot, the throwout bearing and clutch fingers where shot, the starter had already been replaced, the fluids were pure muck, the filters had collapsed, and the list goes on. In the end, I still saved money on the tractor/loader combo. But it just provides a graphic example of what happens when folks run these things without any maintenance considerations whatsoever.

So another take on that farm publication then is this; "Anything cheap can quickly become expensive - if you don't take care of it in the first place".

//greg// ....

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auerbach
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2009-03-13          161033


Greg, I value all your many helpful posts to this site, including your interpretation about the reason for his problems. But with all due respect (and my hope that this won't anger you), I have to wonder how all the above complaints are the result of poor maintenance and/or not following the manual, and if they are, why you didn't mention that in any of your five earlier posts to this thread.



....

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hardwood
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2009-03-13          161037


Low cost and good quality just never seem to go hand in hand no mater what the product.
Another point to me is when we already owe the Chinese government something over a trillion dollars why would we want to make them richer and our domestic manufacturers poorer? it seems to me that we are playing right into their hand with every dollar we send over ther for products we already produce here? Same reason I've never owned a non domestic car or pickup. Just my thoughts. Frank. ....

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Murf
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2009-03-13          161038


While talking to people in the industry at a trade show recently the subject of 'value priced' (read cheap offshore imports) came up.

I asked a national sales manager for one of the big 'traditional' tractor companies if the economy going down the drain was going to mean the Chinese tractors were going to make big gains in market share because of the price advantage. His reply was that the company had studied the idea, and had looked at sales figures, and come to the conclusion that people bought based on their 'gut feelings' and nothing else really. The folks that would buy a cheaper offshore unit would do so regardless of the economy.

The interesting part of the conversation though was when someone brought up the subject of quality and reliability of these offshore machines.

Someone used the term 'Asian Scrap Metal'.

The factory rep. pointed out that the US importer of Jinma tractors alone, and bearing in mind it's just one of many brands coming in, imports about 600 tractors a MONTH. He went on to say if they were junk, you would have heard about it the news, there would be lawsuits, and they would not be in the catalogs of big national company's who wouldn't risk selling garbage and losing clients.

I suspect he's right, if there were that many tractors out there, and they were junk, you sure would have heard a lot more about it by now.

I've met more than my share of people who (as my grandfather used to put it) could break an anvil with a rubber mallet too.

Best of luck. ....

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kwschumm
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2009-03-13          161040


Quote:
Originally Posted by Murf | view 161038
The factory rep. pointed out that the US importer of Jinma tractors alone, and bearing in mind it's just one of many brands coming in, imports about 600 tractors a MONTH. He went on to say if they were junk, you would have heard about it the news, there would be lawsuits, and they would not be in the catalogs of big national company's who wouldn't risk selling garbage and losing clients.


Were there consumer lawsuits over Yugos? I don't remember.

In my mind a low purchase price equals low expectations. When a Harbor Freight tool breaks I shrug my shoulders, toss it out and buy a good one.

In any case it seems easy for a distributor to close up shop, then pop up again under another name selling the same machines relabeled with a new brand. Seems that's happened a few times in the chinese tractor business. ....

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greg_g
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2009-03-13          161045


Quote:
Originally Posted by auerbach | view 161033
Greg, I value all your many helpful posts to this site, including your interpretation about the reason for his problems. But with all due respect (and my hope that this won't anger you), I have to wonder how all the above complaints are the result of poor maintenance and/or not following the manual, and if they are, why you didn't mention that in any of your five earlier posts to this thread.
Because what I just described in the LAST post are CLEARLY owner/operator problems, NOT manufacturer problems. These are owner/operator screwups that have been clearly and repeatedly documented in hundreds of discussions on at least half a dozen Chinese tractor forums. Been there, done that, got the friggin' t-shirt.

//greg// ....

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kalpia
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 77 Extreme Western on the beautiful St. Croix River, WI
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2009-03-14          161056


I've had my Agricat 2920 (Jinma 254) for over 6 years and I've never regretted it. I paid less than the $9,000.00 delivered with a nice KayKoker fel. I've had a few minor things but it has done everything that I wanted it to do; plow snow, move dirt, lift logs, and mow the field. I'm not a professional so I don't need a hydrostatic tranny or anything to fancy. Just a good solid 40 or 50 hours/year work machine, and the guys here are great when it come to helping with questions or problems. ....

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lwater54
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5 netherlands
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2009-03-16          161105


i have a Jinma 224 for 3 years now. I never met any problem ....

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kalpia
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 77 Extreme Western on the beautiful St. Croix River, WI
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2009-03-16          161116


What a great discussion, thanks to all. One of the features of a forum like this is that there is a tendency to only mention problems or issues, and that is as it should be.

We don't talk about all of the planes that DIDN'T crash or all of the kids that DIDN'T get killed in a drive-by so it's only fitting that we don't talk about all of the Chinese tractors that have worked well over many hundreds of hours; but I suspect that there are many of them. Many of the guys/gals on here are by nature very good with their hands and like to tinker/repair their stuff and a few like me are not as adept. That's OK, cause the guys here a fantastic when it comes to helping...and that is, to me, almost as important as having a dealer in your area plus any good mechanic will work on these.

As mentioned, if your business model does not allow for any down time then buy as good as you can afford from the closest dealer, but if you can stand to be down for a week or two (and thanks to guys like Chip or Harry or Greg just about any part can be to you in a week) and you don't mind getting your hands dirty then I think these basic Chinese tractors are a good deal.

As far as 'be American buy American' that's impossible, we live in a global economy and you CAN NOT help but support some other country's economy no matter what you buy. There's a reason Walmart and Best Buy are the biggest - they're the cheapest and most of it comes from Asia or other developing countries.

That's my 4 cents worth, and again this is a good discussion; it clears the air on many misunderstood points of ownership of these little tractors. ....

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dtk1952
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 19 SW MO
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2014-11-10          191390


Quote:
Originally Posted by hardwood | view 159475
I don't have one but GregG is right on with the dealer support plus our economy needs a boost not the Chineese economy.
I fully agree about the Chinese part. I try to buy American when I can. But I also try to avoid Chinese made like it was the plague. ....

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dtk1952
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 19 SW MO
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2014-11-10          191391


That's why I rarely shop Walmart. I don't buy any clothing items from them. The last time I bought any clothes from them was before they forced Dickies to move offshore. Now I buy most of my clothes online and a lot of times I can get better deals. Now as for vehicles, tractors and etc., it seems that a lot of the foreign brands have more American content then the so called American brands, of which there are only 2 companies, Ford and GM. Now for tractors I have no idea which are American and which are foreign. I have a Kubota and have had great service out of it.

This is in reply to kalpia. ....

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6881 Waterville New York
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2014-11-12          191401


Compacts have designs that are from the sixties right up through to now. The older designs and molds that are used are still often good although the user does give up some features and comfort.
Tractors are used for different purposes and for many individuals the hours are between 50 and 100 a year so the true need for dedicated use is not there. For commercial application it will separate the good and the bad do to untimely repairs as well as available uptime and the day in and out use often adding 8 or more hours a day.
I know for me to look at many I can often see the designs of tractors that I grew up with. I understand where the need is and I only hope that people that buy them do understand there intended purpose and practical uses for what they have bought. We have worked on some and our tech's do enjoy the lack of complexity of them. The most important part of ownership is the intended use and meeting the need to get it done. To ask if they are worth it is a question you need to ask yourself!

....

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wyk991604
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 9 China
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2014-12-25          191718


Recent years, Chinese tractors like Jinma Dongfeng Foton are exported a lot because of lower price and good quality. As we work with many tractor owners from over the world. Feedback about tractor quality is mostly good.
The biggest problem is from the local dealer. They can not supply enough after sale service for their customers, for example, spare parts. So many our customers complain that it is difficult to get spare parts when their tractors break down. So consider your local market,service is good or not?

Kevin ....


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