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Blueman
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 243 Washington, PA
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2004-12-08          101862

OK gang, I need your opinion. My dad never bought me a gun...even though I own quite a few and also hunt (he never hunted). My oldest son just turned 9, and is very interested in going hunting with me, which I have promised he can start going with me next year. He hasn't asked for a gun, but I am considering buying him a Red Ryder BB gun, or possibly a pellet gun, or .22, all to be used with my supervision. A youth compound bow is also under consideration. Your thoughts, considering his age? We have plenty of land where there would be ample opportunity for proper use and instruction.

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kwschumm
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2004-12-08          101863

I learned on a .22 bolt action rifle and think that's a great way to go. Not much kick and it's not as intimidating as the bigger calibers, so it will lessen the tendency to flinch when learning trigger control. Plus ammo is cheap. All IMHO of course. ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2004-12-08          101865

A .22 under supervision is a wonderful place to start. Just make sure the rifle fits him.

Used single shots can be found for about $75 and at that price it doesn't feel bad to trim the buttstock to youth size. ....

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shortmagnum
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2004-12-08          101868

I agree, a 22 single shot is a good starter and relatively safe. One shot at a time makes a box of 50 last a long time and teaches them the importance of that first shot. A hunters safety course is a good idea too. ....

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Blueman
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2004-12-08          101869

The reason I haven't started him on a .22 yet (I have a couple), is the stocks are too long for his eye relief, etc. That's why I considered the bb gun, but, if I remember, their accuracy stinks, and you can get frustrated easily... ....

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bmlekki
Join Date: Oct 2003
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2004-12-08          101870

I didn't get my 22 until i was 13.. I did get a simple daisy bb gun when i was 9/10. The small bb guns that aren't pump or CO2 powered can't kill you. The 22 can. Unfortunatly more people have been killed with a 22. Too many people think ahhh it's "Only a 22"..

I would suggest the bb gun first and tech him all the safety points and if you are pleased with his understanding in the need for safty, then look at the 22 for a birthday or next christmas.

....

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Murf
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2004-12-08          101871

Looks like I'm going to be the disenting opinion, again.

All the kids in our family started out with a really good quality air rifle.

It was, at first, used only under strict supervision, then as we got older, we were allowed semi-supervised target practice (in view at a distance).

Only when we reached the age where we could actually go hunting did we move up to a .22 rifle.

Years later I asked my dad about the logic. His answer was, as usual, faultless parent-thinking logic.

Like with anything else, he figured us kids would be bored or want to move up to the next thing up in short order, if he gave us a .22 in the first place there really wasn't anything safe to move us up into till we were bigger. By starting us with an air rifle a .22 was a natural safe step up. Besides, by starting with an air gun we had the opportunity to shoot indoors during the winter months.

I still have that air rifle, and it still drops squirrells from 30 or 40 yards out.

Best of luck. ....

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yooperpete
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2004-12-08          101880

My dad brought me through the progression of BB gun, air rifle, .22, shotgun, etc. Now I have an arsenal. At age 9 if you're considering a .22 he better be under 110% supervision and somewhat mature for his age. Also a trigger guard with no access to the key. Likewise with your stuff!!!

A BB gun has poor accuracy as was said and will discourage him. H &R and NEF (NewEngland Firearms) are a combined company owned by Marlin. They make a line of single shot guns both rifles and shotguns. I believe NEF has the youth pardner or something like that is designed to fit them. Remington, Marlin & Henry lever actions also have youth oriented models. NEF also have some combination guns where you can exchange barrels. NEF guns are very inexpensive but quite reliable/accurate. I purchased the .17 Mag. and am somewhat unhappy with black oxide finish instead of blueing because it can rust real easily. They also have some stainless models.

Most pellet guns have the ballastics of of a .22 short when pumped up fully or when using a gas propellant. My Sheridan pellet gun took 20 pumps to achieve this. When I first got it, could only pump it 3 or 4 times so that was a safety factor. I think you are at a crossroads somewhere between a pellet gun and a .22. I'd go with a pump up style pellet gun first and work closely with him. I'm thinking 10 1/2 to 12 is a better age group for a .22 ....

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kubotachick
Join Date: Mar 2004
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2004-12-08          101881

no way man, paint ball gun all the way, that way if he does shoot anyone (or thing) its not going to require any real special attention...and the co2 cartridges are really fun...i'm thinking it would make him the envy of all the little boys around. (or at least around here he would) ....

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DRankin
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2004-12-08          101884

Sorry chick. Totally wrong message.

Paint ball guns are designed to shoot people. If you want to teach a kid to shoot his friends that is perfect, but where do you go after that? ....

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yooperpete
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2004-12-08          101885

Sorry KC but have to agree with DRankin on this one. Paintballs are for shooting people and getting rowdy, thinking that shooting people is ok and fun. Lots of people also get eye injuries from paintballs from screwing around and not having faceshields on.

Several years ago I was in an emergency room. The kid next to my mom's bed had an eye injury and they couldn't figure out what was wrong until they took a better look. The kid had been screwing around with some other kids and got shot in the face with a BB gun. Doc finally found a BB behind the eyeball. Mom & I left before they figured out what to do. ....

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kyvette
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2004-12-08          101887

Blueman, I learned to shoot at an early age 9 or 10, but was older maybe 12 or 13 when I received my own rifle, a 22 caliber savage.

My suggestion, teach him to shoot, teach him safety, and make sure he learns to respect the firearm for what it can do, it is not a toy. A youth safety course would be an excellent idea.

Take him hunting with you, small game would be best to start.

I would buy him a rifle after you feel comfortable with his ability and maturity to safely handle the firearm. You will be doing your kid a great service.

Individuals who oppose firearms of any kind, were not taught how to shoot by their parents. They fail to realize that guns do not kill, it's the person behind the gun, hence the improper name "deadly weapon". Almost anything can be a deadly weapon in the wrong hands or when used improperly.

Have fun teaching him and value the time spent together for all too soon he will be gone. Dave ....

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shortmagnum
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2004-12-08          101890

A friend of mine bought one of these youth sized chipmunk rifles. It's pretty small but seems to shoot good. He shoots rabbits with it.

I have a 9 YO too and although she hasn't shown any desire to learn to shoot, I think she would be mature enough to try shooting with supervision.
Dave ....


Link:   Chipmunk rifle

 
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kubotachick
Join Date: Mar 2004
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2004-12-08          101892

as with any firearm, you must teach and inforce proper saftey measures. Of course, as with anything you shoot there will be reprocussions, but if you handle the situation, it can be a rather fun hobby, not just for getting "rowdy". ....

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Murf
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2004-12-08          101893

Our family went by the 'teach them young and teach them wisely' theory, children who learn early never forget.

Firearm use and care, alcohol consumption and social behaviour, amongst other things, were clearly defined at an early age, and there was NO misunderstanding what was acceptable or not.

As we got older there was NO 'forbidden fruit', we had been there and done that, it was no big mystery or thrill.

There was never a temptation to experiment with the boundary between right & wrong either. The law held no fear for me greater than that of what would happen at home if caught.

Best of luck. ....

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kubotachick
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2004-12-08          101894

right on murf!! Sink or swim, i believe in that...it kind of rules out the whole concept of practice what you preach. And most kids learn the hard way anyways, so why waste effort..BUT...saftey should always be taken. ....

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Murf
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2004-12-08          101895

I think you completely missed my point there KC.

It WAS NOT 'sink or swim'......

It was TEACH YOUR KIDS HOW TO SWIM.

"And most kids learn the hard way anyways, so why waste effort.."

Phew, all I can say is you're kidding right?

As a kid I was a liable to get a swat from ANY adult who saw me misbehave as from my own parents.

I am thankful I grew up in a community like that.

Today if a kid went home and said someone had hit the parents are likely going to call the police, lawyer, and anybody else they think of.

In my case if I had gone home and told my parents I got a swat for misbehaving I would have gotten whalloped again, and good, for it.

I new it, and I didn't risk it.

Best of luck. ....

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kubotachick
Join Date: Mar 2004
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2004-12-08          101897

come on now murphy, i though you knew me better, how often am i serious about anything.

Teaching swimming as opposed to drowning the kid, very good advice. I guess i got screwed up there when i got threw into the pool without proper training.

I Support Proper Education, whether it be swimming lessons or Firearm safety ....

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Murf
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2004-12-09          101945

Unfortunately, as the movie "Jackass" has proved, you can no longer make flip remarks and not expect a percentage of the population won't take it as gospel or good advice.

....

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yooperpete
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2004-12-09          101946

Blueman:
If you decide to go with the .22, I noticed in my November issue of American Hunter (NRA magazine) that Rossi makes a combo youth model with interchangeable barrels with .22/.410 that are single shot and stainless for $195.00. Their website is rossiusa.com. ....

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kubotaguy
Join Date: Nov 2003
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2004-12-09          101956

Age 9 I think is a little young for a 22 yet. I would get him a nice pump air rifle. With the pump as opposed to the CO2, it will teach that each shot is important as you don't just pull the trigger. You have to pump it up for the shot. When my dad took us out with the BB guns, we were only allowed like 4 pumps at first and as we showed responsibility we got to increase until we got to 10 pumps which would shatter a bottle and kill a rabbit.
I got my 22 when I was about 13. I got the Marlin 18 shot but again was only allowed to put one bullet in at a time until responsibility was shown.
I let my 8 year old daughter shoot my 22 Beretta pistol and the 22 rifle and she took care with it but I think she would be more satisfied with a BB gun to start off with. ....

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Iowafun
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2004-12-09          101958

When I first started reading, I was all on the .22 rifle for the first gun. But after some thought, I'd go with the pellet gun/air rifle. A lot depends on how you raised you rkid up to this point. Not tryig to bash you, but I don't know you and you may not know your kid well enough to trust him with a high powered weapon.

The air rifle gives you the opportunity to see how mature the kid is in handling the responsibility of a weapon. It also gives you the chance to work with him on safe handling, etc. I'd also lock up the weapon when not in use to keep his friends away from it. I like the idea of a pump air rifle so you are't constantly shelling out money for CO2 cartriges.

Get a good one. My friend's son is utterly deadly with his air rifle. If it's smaller than a dog and within 40 yards of the kid, it's dead. Decent ones can be accurate, reasonably.

After a few years and when you get comfortable with how he handles himself with the air rifle, then you can upgrade. My first gun was a 12 ga pump shotgun at age 12. I still use it today. But I learned on a .22 while supervised. My brother and I were probably a tad immature for the .22 at age 8 or 9 when I look back on it. ....

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Archdean
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2004-12-09          101966

Not giving advice here but when I was nine years old I recieved a Savage Model 24 22/410 Over and Under for my birthday still one of my prized possessions after some 56 years!!

Give a boy a quality firearm , work with them and they will respect all things more!! ....

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Just For Fun Off Topic Youth Christmas Gift Gun
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Blueman
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2004-12-09          101968

All are great suggestions...after some thought and reading some posts here, I think the BB gun is too much of a toy...I don't want my kids to ever think of a gun as a toy, and do not let them play with "toy" guns now. I have a Sheridan air rifle, and will probably get him to start using that, and wait another year for the .22. The hunter safety courses in PA are only offered to youth at least 11 years old. Depending on his size, in a year or two I might look at Remington youth shotgun...the action is the same as the regular model, only the stock is cut down, and can be retrofitted later. I'm sure someone makes a similar .22. Thanks again for all the feedback, and (politically incorrect?, too bad) Merry Christmas to all.
Sean ....

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Billy
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2004-12-10          102024

Look at the Chipmunk 22. It's a great little 22, made for kids. Marlin also makes a youth model single shot 22

In the link below, the Chipmunk is the third one down. ....


Link:   Chipmunk

 
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kyvette
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2004-12-10          102028

Blueman, for what its worth, I agree with your decision, and who cares about politically correct or not. This is a term coined by later generations who are unwilling to take responsiblity for their actions.

I have a granddaughter on the way. Maybe in a few years I can teach her how to shoot and hunt. Dave ....

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Blueman
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2004-12-10          102030

Dave, I hope that NH has some hours on it...it is way too clean! My dad has a 64 roadster (all original except the paint), and a 79 coupe. I'll have to wait a few years for my kids to be done with school till my wife and I can drive around in my (dream) split window. And, once again, Merry Christmas! ....

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Iowafun
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2004-12-10          102052

I think you've made a good choice. Everyone matures differently. I'll start my kid on the air rifle and then the .22 followed by a shotgun of some sort. Course, I have to wait for the kid to be born. But he/it is on order... ....

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BrendonN
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2004-12-11          102083

Blueman, I can relate somewhat to your situation. My dad is not a gun guy or hunter and my Daisy 880 pellet/BB gun was the first gun of any kind in our house. I was probably 12 or 13 then. It was a fairly powerful air gun and quite accurate with pellets (not so with BBs). When safe gun handling and proficiency was learned, I moved up to a 22. (My first 22 belonged to my great-grandpa, a Remington Model 4 rolling block single shot. I still enjoy that old gun!) My own biased opinion is to start a youngster out with a decent air rifle (capable of shooting pellets) and move up when you feel the time is right. ....

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brokenarrow
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2004-12-12          102146

Bass pro shops sell a single shot YOUTH model .22 I have it in the gun safe. It is a Marlin model 15yn micro-groove barrel cal. 22 s,l&l.r. The most awesome gun for a 9 year old you could ever imagine. It is as light as a red rider and probably smaller or the same size. Its a single shot bolt action. $122.00.
Now for my reasons. I have 3 kids 2 girls and 1 boy. All have been thru hunter ed and all were shooting before 9 this .22. Reaso being? Your kid can kill someone before he turns 11 with or with out one of "your" guns.
Keep it locked up. Take your kid out and start teaching him what a gun can do. Take a melon and shoot it with your shotgun and have him watch. Shoot a Gallon jug of water and have him watch. I feel it is your responsibility to teach your kid SAFETY. The class is something that is a requirement and will teach a few things you dont. The father/mother needs to teach safety and not tell em, "just because I said so" Show him why.
Now for the reasons for the .22. First of all He will NEVER shoot with out you there anyway. Whether it be a BB gun or a 30.06. Until he is 13 (in my state anyway) he must be accompanied by me! Remember he will NEVER shoot any gun unless your there so why NOT it be a real gun. Those BB guns are asking for trouble and dont kid yourself, a PELLET gun is no different than a .22 at close range. (Remember rule number 1? He will never shoot it with out you there)
2. Since rule number 1 is always enforced and this gun is a SINGLE shot, and you will ALWAYS be right behind him close enough to handle the gun yourself. He will be handed the loaded gun at first (while sitting at a bench rest with a target infront of him) NOTHING will ever go wrong) It is you and him and no one else just shooting. You will always be in control of the loaded weapon untill he aims, takes the safety off and squeezes. Get him the .22!
A short story.
My kid was a great shot at 12. He had a bolt action ruger .44 mag rifle. We were in a very large tree stand 15' up together (8'X8'X15'tall)LOL. Anyway he had a 4 point walk with in 50 yards I had him in the right spot (so I thought) As he walked I told him to take him out before he gets into the thick-it. When the buck stopped about 10 feet away from the thick stuff, I thought he had the perfect shot and could not imagine why he was waiting? I whispered, TAKE HIM NOW! He squeezed a shot and the buck froze LOL Then ran directly towards us! He stopped right under the stand and I whispered AGAIN put anouther shell in! LOL With the shell hitting the tree stand he took off running and within 20 steps the buck rolled right after the second shot!.. I could not believe he missed the first shot. I asked him what happened? We walked to where he stood and I did not realize he had to shoot between 2 trees about 8 inches apart. You bet he hit the tree cause of the angle! MY fault. Anyway the next day we were going to take a doe. I told him the next deer that comes around to shoot and I was not going to help at all. about 4pm a doe walked in to the shooting lane on the trail and the kid started shaking! I mean uncontrollably to the point where I had to take the gun from him. I talked to him calmly, told him, " she dont know we are here, take your time and breath" MAN I thought he was going to have a heart attack. I took the gun from him again. Now she was walking into a perfect setting for a great shot. Broadside and 35 yards. I set the gun back in his hands and had him aim. I was holding the darn end of the stock to steady it! I told him that when he had her in the crosshairs and he had his spot lined up to squeeze. She fell also.
You need to be there all the time. The next year the kid shot anouther buck and there was NO shaking. Since then he has done just fine and I never sat with him again since he was 13. (Except one time 2 years agao just for comorodery) Now he is busting my balls in deer camp about who is the better shot. I shut him up this last Nov! LOL.
My daughters all shoot and one hunted but since then has decided its not lady like (which is ok).
Teach all your kids young how to handle a gun and how not to. Teach them they can never touch it with out you there. Most important, take them out shooting EVERY time they want to and they will never need to touch that gun when your not there cause they will always know you will go with them any time. Last thing IMHO Beat their ass if any rule is ever broke (LOL just kidding) But it better be more servere than anything they ever dreamed of including taking their door off the hinges (THAT IS A KILLER FOR PUBERTY BOYS AND ANY AGE GIRLS. I only had to do it once for one of my daughters. After the month ebeded and she got it back, She was a changed girl!!!! for good.
Good luck and dont let him shoot your eye out with that BB gun! ....

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Archdean
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2004-12-12          102149

Broken,
As you so aptly point out there is NO substitute for a parent that means what he says and says what he means!!

My best regards,

....

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brokenarrow
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2004-12-13          102171

This is too funny
Today I just heard (after my last post yesterday) that Wisconsin is considering a new age for deer hunting (and other forms) 10 yrs old!!! Here is the catch the Parent needs to be within arms reach and there can only be ONE gun between the two of them. The WDNR says they believe it will be even safer than what we have now (at 12 you can hunt within yelling and visual distance) WOW aint that freaky! Ya think they read my post?? LOL ....

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kyvette
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2004-12-13          102180

Blueman, those first pictures where taken right after delivery. The tractor now has 50 hours and a scratch or two.

I would love to have a 50th anniversary. But it will have to wait until my youngest graduates from college. My all time favorite corvette is the '62. Maybe one of these days.

Have a Merry Christmas, Dave. ....

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Blueman
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2004-12-13          102182

Damn Gander Mountain....they HAD to put all of their treestands on sale, 25% off! Now I am looking at a double ladder stand that I can take my son with me (even off season) and "hunt" deer, turkey, etc. This might be better than getting him a gun this year anyway. ....

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DeTwang
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2004-12-18          102509

Jumping in on this conversation a little late, but I vote for the bow!

When I was about 12 or 13, I tried archery at a boy scout camp. Fell in love. Had already been shooting with my dad many times with our .22 and tried some bigger calibers (but didn't like them because I was really too small yet for the kick and weight).

But archery captured me. A year or so later, he gave me a 6' straight bow he got from his boss (who had hand made it many many years earlier). I was in heaven.

That bow eventually got broken in an altercation with a car (while riding my bike to the local jr college to use their archery range), but I never forgot how much more I enjoyed shooting the bow than the gun.

It's one heck of a lot cheaper to shoot too. You chase your ammo down and reuse it.. :-) ....

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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2004-12-20          102646

Kyvette
I just happen to know a guy (old buisness partner/godfather of one of my kids) That has just about all the parts for a 50th aniv. He used to be in the rebuilding mode of vettes till he moved north and became a logger LOL Dont ask! He still has them and for what ever reason I dont know. I know for a fact he would sell them.
Logging is not too prosperous recently for him. His employee just got whacked by a tree and he is by himself now. Dont know if your into things like that? I bet he would give it to ya for a decent price
....

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2210man
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1 Eastern Ohio
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2004-12-28          103075

AS for getting a boy a gun, my grandfather used to say, "buy a gun according to the kid's head size, if he has a huge melon go ahead and get him a big gun, but if he has a small head, buy him a a bb or pellet gun." I have no idea why I am posting this but maybe it will make sense to you Blueman. ....

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Youth Christmas Gift Gun

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2004-12-28          103086

I started my daughters off with the Red Rider BB gun. Good learning tool. ....

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Youth Christmas Gift Gun

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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2004-12-28          103100

In PA you can take the safety course at age 11 but can not get a hunting license till age 12.... ....

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Blueman
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 243 Washington, PA
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2006-11-06          136632

Here's a follow-up to an oldie...my eldest son turns 11 this month; he is getting a Savage .308 to hunt deer with next year, but allow him to learn to shoot high power with this year...I love the Accu trigger on these Savage's. I've shot these guns out of the box with a lot of success. What does anyone think for an entry level deer rifle? ....

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Iowafun
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 955 Central Iowa
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2006-11-07          136698

My entry level deer gun at age 12 was a borrowed 20 gauge shotgun with slugs. Got a deer that year too! I think it depends on where you hunt. I was in the midwest where the long range shot doesn't exist. Currently, every hunter in the household and and at deer camp uses a .50 caliber muzzleloader. That may be a bit much at 12, but a .45 caliber muzzleloader would probably be ok especially if you knocked the powder charge down.

I guess I'm saying I'm not familiar enough with the .308 to really offer an opinion on it. I typically would start on a gun with limited range and accuracy to develop that experience in waiting for a good, clean shot. ....

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yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan
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2006-11-07          136701

A .308 in a bolt action will have a fair amount of kick. Some Savage models have better recoil pads (i.e. ones with cross holes that are more flexible than the solid pad).

Some models have front sights and others don't. Is he going to be shooting scoped? Think he should grow up knowing how to use both, however, high mounted scopes allowing you to peek beneath for open sights is not handy as a young man.

I prefer semi-autos since they have a little less kick and faster shooting and also prefer the .30-06 cartridge since it has to be one of the most popular ever made. I also like .30-30 lever guns. Less kick and easy handling all about 6 1/4-6 3/4 pounds like the Savage bolt actions.

Bolt actions are usually the most accurate.

P.S. If your family genes indicate that your son will probably be tall, I wouldn't bother getting a youth model like the 10GY which is Ladies and Youth orientated. He'll outgrow it to quickly.

Suggest going used and purchase 2, one in a .22 to plink with and get lots of shooting practice and the other a higher power as you intended. ....

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bvance
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 280 The Great Pacific NorthWet, Olympia, WA
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2006-11-07          136706

For an entry level deer rifle, the model 94 Winchester 30-30 can't be beat. It's light, easy to use, moderate kick and smaller stock for fitting a 12 year old.

The only concern I would have is make sure they know and I mean really know and understand gun safety, because the 94 has the open hammer that once cocked has to be let off if they don't actually take the shot. It's a bit tricky for a young hunter to learn.

Having said that, gun safety with any type of gun is critical, because you can have a problem with leaving the safety off on say a bolt action if you allow the hunter to walk in the field with fire in the hole....something I would never allow a young hunter to do.

And back to the beggining thread in this message, I would always start a kid with a BB gun and when he has demonstrated good sense and good safety habits, move him to a pellet gun and again on to the .22 when he continues to demonstrate good judgement. That may be at 10 for some or maybe 13 or 14 for others and maybe even for others never.... ....

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