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GM CEO Rick Wagoner Resigns -- US Govt Presses On

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
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2009-03-30          161532


Here is a copy of a blog post I saw commenting on today's Auto industry bailout situation:



"I think we learned that one presidentís deadline is not the same as another presidentís deadline. There are two big holes in Chryslerís plan. One is that if Fiat takes control of 35 percent of Chrysler, Daimler still owns 19 percent. Technically, Fiat becomes a foreign-owned company propped up with $6 billion U.S. dollars. The second big gaping hole in a Chrysler-Fiat plan is that historically, American car dealers have never been able to successfully sell foreign cars. The scrapyard of failed attempts to sell foreign cars at U.S. dealers includes the Nash Metropolitan, Dodge Cricket, Plymouth Sapporo, Plymouth Arrow, Ford Cortina, Ford Capri, Mercury Capri (from Australia), Ford Pantera, Opel, Buick/Opel by Isuzu, and more. Chrysler even attempted to sell Alfa-Romeoís on their lots in the early 1990s. Of course, some folks will say, ďThis time itís different,Ē which is what they said when Renaults made in Kenosha were supposed to save AMC. Anyone who believes that Fiats made in North America can compete against Hondas and Toyotas made in the US on the sales floor is mistaken. Chrysler-badged Fiats will also have to traverse an enormous speedbump of negative equity branding. There are enough of us who remember Fiats from 20 years ago as cars that never completely passed their reliability tests because they rusted out.

Then, thereís GM, and that situation isnít much better."


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GM CEO Rick Wagoner Resigns -- US Govt Presses On

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
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2009-03-30          161533


"Resigning" puts a happy face on what really happened. King Obama and Chancellor Geithner fired him. Not that firing Wagoner is a bad thing - the GM board should have done that years ago. The bad thing is the King and Chancellor part

That said, I owned an Alfa-Romeo years ago - a 1972 Montreal. It was without a doubt THE most fun car I ever owned. Ran circles around my 1977 TransAm. Lasted longer too. The TA ended up in a German junkyard in 1985, couldn't handle the autobahn speeds. I sold the Montreal in 1988, for nearly twice what I paid for it.

//greg// ....

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GM CEO Rick Wagoner Resigns -- US Govt Presses On

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7142 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2009-03-30          161540


I'm not convinced of the "American car dealers have never been able to successfully sell foreign cars." part.

For instance, in 2008 Mercedes Benz sold 225,128 vehicles in the US, and that's down 11.2% over 2007's 253,433 vehicles.

BMW sold 336,265 cars in 2008 in the US.

Those two alone account for 7.7% of the entire amount of 7,667,066 vehicles sold in the US.

That's a pretty significant number considering that is only two of the import car companies.


Best of luck. ....

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GM CEO Rick Wagoner Resigns -- US Govt Presses On

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2009-03-30          161541


Other than this I gots nutin' to say. I'm hiding and watching to see how long it takes for other industries to be told what they can and can't do and how much their workers are allowed to make. ....

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GM CEO Rick Wagoner Resigns -- US Govt Presses On

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
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2009-03-30          161546


Quote:
Originally Posted by Murf | view 161540
I'm not convinced of the "American car dealers have never been able to successfully sell foreign cars."


I think what is being referred to is when a car manufacturer tries to supplement the shortcomings of its line by implanting another line in. Bad example but take the Izuzu Passport as an SUV in Honda's line, or the Mitsubishi line in Chrysler.

Nonetheless exactly what is a US car manufacturer anyway, the Detroit auto companies have operations all over the world are they really US, or just had their roots in North America. ....

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GM CEO Rick Wagoner Resigns -- US Govt Presses On

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
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2009-03-30          161549


No time to respond here, too busy stocking up on food and ammo.
....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
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2009-03-31          161561


I don't like to be an "I told You So" person, but I'm beefing up my ammo supply too since the "Change" is coming about. ....

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GM CEO Rick Wagoner Resigns -- US Govt Presses On

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2009-03-31          161565


There's lot's of space up here in Cannuckistan, the banks are still making huge profits, the economy is slow but better than down there and there's good indicators we will rebound ahead of the rest of the economy's.

LOL

Best of luck. ....

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harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
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2009-03-31          161575


Murf will they let me bring my safe? Several large cal handguns several Bolt rifles many shotguns and several AR's plus 1500+ lbs of ammo, bullets, primers, powder. I'll leave tools tractor and rest of stuff here. I'm only moving with the important stuff. Maybe I'll squeeze in my reloading stuff also. ....

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GM CEO Rick Wagoner Resigns -- US Govt Presses On

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2009-03-31          161583


N-o-t s-o f-a-s-t Murf ol' boy. I watch more Canadian TVOntario and The CBC than US. You Canucks are just as worried about your economy as we are ours. Yes your banks are in better shape, but as far as employment goes there are BIG worries about the auto-related industries--such as Chrysler completely pulling out and perhaps GM too if contracts aren't revisited. ....

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GM CEO Rick Wagoner Resigns -- US Govt Presses On

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2009-04-01          161592


Quote:
Originally Posted by earthwrks | view 161583
N-o-t s-o f-a-s-t Murf ol' boy.


Yah! What he said.

A while back we had a clown running for President who was aptly described as "a hand grenade with a bad haircut".

Anyway, he coined the phrase "the giant sucking sound" and if you listen real good from Canada you can hear it.

This time it is the sound of our Pres purposely steering the US into the toilet and don't fool yourself, most of the industrialized world is going down with us.

Just listen to some honest reporting (if there is such a thing anymore) from the current G20 conference. The rest of the world leaders know that Oback Barama is flushing them too.

If you are storing food you better have a gun so you can keep the food. I figure ammo will be the new currency and there won't be a safe Mormon household on the continent. ....

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GM CEO Rick Wagoner Resigns -- US Govt Presses On

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2009-04-01          161603


As the old saying goes, "A majority of ONE only matters if YOU are that ONE".

The rest of the world will not let the Abomination drag them down with it.

Yes it will hurt if the auto sector jobs go away, but since our economy is well above some others, and we are a net EXPORTER of things like electricity, natural gas, oil, farm produce and forest products that will be in greater demand, we will bounce back faster, by all accounts, a LOT faster.

That said, I do honestly believe it will be a bumpy ride.

Best of luck. ....

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GM CEO Rick Wagoner Resigns -- US Govt Presses On

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2009-04-01          161604


Quote:
Originally Posted by earthwrks | view 161583
Yes your banks are in better shape, but as far as employment goes there are BIG worries about the auto-related industries--such as Chrysler completely pulling out and perhaps GM too if contracts aren't revisited.


Jeff, while it's a concern, it's not a big one, our plants make better, less expensive to produce vehicles than almost any others.

The plants in Brazil, Mexico and overseas will be closed long before ours are.

That little scrap of paper called NAFTA says vehicle production gets shared or our borders get closed to them, and vice-versa.

The new head hunters put in charge will go for quality and cost savings over protecting union jobs. Union propaganda only sells so many cars, less than quality will.

Best of luck. ....

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GM CEO Rick Wagoner Resigns -- US Govt Presses On

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2009-04-01          161606


Quote:
Originally Posted by Murf | view 161604
The new head hunters put in charge will go for quality and cost savings over protecting union jobs. Union propaganda only sells so many cars, less than quality will.Best of luck.


Geez Murf, That is NOT the view from the vortex, at least when we can see beyond the toilet paper. Barama leaked the strategy when he blurted to Joe the Plumber. It is all about righting cosmic wrongs.

The rich, evil CEO's have stolen from the workers too long and we have to return the wealth to "its rightful owners". In this instance it is the poor oppressed union workers.

GM and Chrysler will be restructured to maximize benefits for the unions, and restructured to produce not the most profitable car lines but only the "green" models that are currently collecting dust on the dealers lots.

And when the stupid little econo-boxes don't sell, the government will step in and buy them to keep the whole charade afloat.

The kicker for me was when the same government who buys $900 toilet seats, destroyed Social Security and mis-managed Medicare into a Black Hole promised to honor and IMPROVE on GM's vehicle warranties.

Oh Boy........ That certainly will turn GM showrooms into ghost towns. Can you say Yugo?

And watch out Toyota! These people cannot stand the competition and will have to drive you offshore or mandate your participation in the UAW.

....

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DRankin
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2009-04-01          161607


Oh, BTW........ If you think I am really out in left field, have a good look at our National Rail System, Amtrak.

It is the model for what is coming to the government run car industry. ....

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GM CEO Rick Wagoner Resigns -- US Govt Presses On

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Murf
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2009-04-01          161609


Mark, I hear what you're saying, and to a certain degree even agree with it, BUUUUUUT........

No matter what the 'talk' is now, the bottom line is they must get the sales, and therefore profit, numbers up.

The rank & file of society will NOT (IMHO) go out and buy a GM (or whatever) merely because the guy in charge said to.

In the end the almighty green-back will win out over the 'best' intentions of the Goober-mint.

The rail system, heck, look at the oil industry.

Do you, or anyone else, know that what has been described as "more than all the proven oil reserves of crude oil known in the world today" (according to the Denver Post) a deposit of more than up to 4.3 BILLION barrels are sitting under North Dakota and Montana?

Why is the oil still there, why are there no drill rigs tapping into it?

Environmentalists say "no"........

Best of luck. ....


Link:   Huge new oil find.

 
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DRankin
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2009-04-01          161611


"In the end the almighty green-back will win out over the 'best' intentions of the Goober-mint."

We'll see, but so far conserving/making money has not been the object to anything proposed........

....

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GM CEO Rick Wagoner Resigns -- US Govt Presses On

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
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2009-04-01          161616


Quote:
Originally Posted by DRankin | view 161606
....The kicker for me was when the same government who buys $900 toilet seats, destroyed Social Security and mis-managed Medicare into a Black Hole promised to honor and IMPROVE on GM's vehicle warranties. ......


Mark, my wife and I were talking aout this at breakfast this morning, and she is not into mechanics and cars at all. So she says how is Obama going warranty GM and Chrysler new cars if they are going under?

So I explained to her Obama is not going to attempt to keep the Dealer Service Network in place. What he probably means is that he will do what GM did in the 1970's when GM quality was at an all time low (now is the low point for GM as a comapany). To get consumers to buy they offered extended warranties. The gotcha then as it is now is that these were third party Auto Maintenance insurance contracts that would provide for reimbursement under the condtions of the contract. This might mean that you had go to a certain mechanic etc..

Would it not be funny if the insurer for the GM and Chrysler new car warranties was AIG. Heck why don't we all just pay for it directly out our taxes for the repairs of anyone foolish enough to buy a GM under these circumstances.

How and what are we really saving when we bail out GM and Chrysler. So lets say we let them go, won't the jobs just shift to Honda, Toyota and others. Sure expensive parts are built in Japan. If we were concerned about the engine import why not put a tarriff on Engines so that components were manufactured here.

As I see it the Detroit bail out is really about the Unions and the jobs in the states where GM and Chrysler operate. Cars wear out they don't last forever, someone has to build them, and they need to be cars that people want to own. Trying to coerce the consumer to buy a certain brand is ludicrous.

Dennis ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
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2009-04-01          161618


If the objective intent is to fix the problem, and "firing" the CEO was a legitimate repair, then firing the unions should also have been a legitimate repair since they clearly are a big part of the problem.

Mark is right, unions are off-limits.

Communist-Americans are running the country now, and soon the poor, middle and upper classes will be reduced to two - the government class and the proles.

BTW, what's the difference between Socialism and Communism? Two months.
....

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Murf
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2009-04-01          161621


Quote:
Originally Posted by kwschumm | view 161618
BTW, what's the difference between Socialism and Communism? Two months.


Democracy is two wolves and one sheep voting on what's for dinner.

Socialism is two wolves and one sheep voting on what's for dinner, but the sheep commands the armed forces.

Communism is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner, but both the sheep and wolves were brain-washed from an early age to believe they are all the same.

A Republic is two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner..... except the sheep has a gun and doesn't mind eating grass.


Best of luck.
....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
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2009-04-01          161629


I am concerned what will happen when those who believed what was promised to be elected and even beleived past that realize it is not true. The prospect of their rioting concerns me. ....

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GM CEO Rick Wagoner Resigns -- US Govt Presses On

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earthwrks
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2009-04-01          161636


I realize I'm the odd-man-out here, but unions DID have a place in the recent employment climate. The reason is simple: historically the corporate culture in this region of Detroit, Management including Owners and even indirectly Shareholders unfairly place all the profit earning capacity on the workers. It's an adversarial relationship. It's every man for himself. (Granted unions have gotten out of control, but I'm reflectng on the unions when they in their infantcy and what precipatated them.) That said, if Detroit had treated workers with due respect there would not be a need for unions--period.

In my early 20's I worked in privately-held manufacturing shop as a so-called design engineer--only to be shoved into doing everything BUT at the owner's whim. Why? Several reasons: he got my as-needed design services and more because the 1980's recession was on and jobs were hard to find, just like now. So he took advantage of it, and boasted how he could manipulate workers. Or so he thought. And since I was classified as an engineer, that drastically lowered his workmens comp premiums. (Incidentally I got severely injured on the job lifting metal stamping dies--I didn't have a case because no one believed I got hurt like that as designer) I fought back and I petitioned a union with about 30 or so others. The owner having been a student of Henry Ford who treated his employees with distain---realized the he better change his ways, and did. I ended up voting the union down. The change didn't last I they forced me back into the shop and I got fired. But this is culture here in this region.

That adversarial relationship or culture doesn't stop or end on the shop floor. It carries into the region where the employees, Ford's in particular, treat others outside of work (contractors like myself) with disdain too. ("Sh--t flows down" is the theory) Chrysler employees not so much. I finally had it with one Ford employee who was dictating to me when I could take a break, when to show up and what I was to charge him for the work. I flat out told him that he isn't at "the plant" and that he will not treat me like he's treated. He thought about it, and aplogized. ....

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GM CEO Rick Wagoner Resigns -- US Govt Presses On

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kwschumm
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2009-04-01          161639


On a level playing field companies and employees would need to cooperate to prosper. Government first failed in their roll to maintain the level playfield which gave too much power to management. The fact that an adversarial relationship exists should cause failure. Propping up any endeavor that should rightly fail will also fail. Both management and unions are at fault, and both should suffer the consequences. As should government, but that seems a little unlikely unless the voters wise up (if there is even a right to vote in four years).

My problem with unions is collectivism. Individuals should not be required to turn over their individual rights to the collective in order to make a living.

BTW, the term "workers" is right out of the communist manifesto. The term "employee" seems to properly describe what the relationship should be, an individual agreeing to represent and perform functions on behalf of an employer. ....

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____________________________________________________________________________________
GM CEO Rick Wagoner Resigns -- US Govt Presses On

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2009-04-02          161642


In the interest of full disclosure, I have been a union member most of my life and in my last job sat on the union Executive Board, negotiated labor and retiree health contracts, staffed arbitrations and held the office of Vice-President.

That said, some of the political manipulations I had to participate in left a bad taste in my mouth. I was a very strange duck those circles being a Conservative Republican.

Having been on the "inside" I can tell you that in my view the UAW has run a bit amok in its latter years because of the national political clout it carries due to hefty contributions to unsavory politicians. Management abrogated their right to effectively manage the company and let the inmates run the asylum.
....

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Murf
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2009-04-02          161645


I was very fortunate, I learned management in two places, each had very different ideas of how to 'Direct & Delegate'.

The first was our family farm, for many generations now a large enough enterprise that it needed many 'hired hands', the treatment of them was always the same, they were not family, but may as well have been. When times were good they shared in that, when times were bad they shared in that too, usually voluntarily.

The second was courtesy of Uncle Sam. 'Direct & Delegate' meant orders, but it came with absolute responsibility for same. 'Nuff said.

When I started building my own business both of those styles came into it.

My employees have always shared in the business' bottom line, good or bad. A few years back after some medical problems they (as a group) were offered 49% ownership, they took me up on it and purchased the shares with my assistance.

I'm proud to say they have built the business even further.

I'm firm believer in do unto others.......

Best of luck. ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2009-04-08          161859


Quote:
Originally Posted by harvey | view 161575
Murf will they let me bring my safe? Several large cal handguns several Bolt rifles many shotguns and several AR's plus 1500+ lbs of ammo, bullets, primers, powder. I'll leave tools tractor and rest of stuff here. I'm only moving with the important stuff. Maybe I'll squeeze in my reloading stuff also.


Harvey, I take it that is just what you keep in your bug out bag? LOL! ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2009-04-08          161860


Quote:
Originally Posted by kwschumm | view 161618
If the objective intent is to fix the problem, and "firing" the CEO was a legitimate repair, then firing the unions should also have been a legitimate repair since they clearly are a big part of the problem.Mark is right, unions are off-limits.Communist-Americans are running the country now, and soon the poor, middle and upper classes will be reduced to two - the government class and the proles.BTW, what's the difference between Socialism and Communism? Two months.


Ken, you are close. These are NOT Socialists or Communists.....they are Fascists. ....

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Murf
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2009-04-09          161870


Harvey, this is Cannuckistan, you won't need any of those things.

Ok, well maybe a few shotguns and a rifle or two, this place is loaded with deer, turkey and birds of all description. ;)

Best of luck. ....

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