tractorpoint.com - The leader in Tractors from Compacts, to Utility, to Full Size Tractors! Kubota, John Deere, New Holland, Kioti, Case/IH, and Others. Keywords=Compact Tractor, Kubota Tractors,  Kioti Tractors, JD, John Deere Tractors, New Holland, Case Boomer, Used Tractors, Classifieds, Dealer Directory, Tractor Pictures / Images
  parts   |   discussion   |   photos   |   podcast   |   reviews   |   specs   |   dealers   |   classifieds   |   contact   |   faq   |   myProfile   |   home          Login Now | Sign Up


Forums > Active Threads > Popular Compact Tractors > John Deere Tractors

Post Message John Deere Tractors


 Go Bottom
____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
reason201
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 91 Nebraska
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-01-22          139000


I have a 4710 with R4s, the drive I have to plow has 2 fairly steep grades on it and I am having issues with traction in the snow. I have 400lbs of weight on the rear wheels and the tires are in good shape. My question is whether I would be better off putting chains on the R4s or moving to R1s. Help me out guys... I am tired of sliding.

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-01-22          139001


R1s would be better than R4s but on steep grades chains on either would probably be best. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2007-01-22          139002


LIke KW said R-1's might be a bit better but not enough to justify the cost. I think chains would be your best choice. Much better traction and lots less cost. Frank. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-01-22          139003


I'll go along with the general idea that chains would be the best here but unless you only use the tractor for snow removal then the rest of your uses still might need another option. Not for nothing but on paved surface your best traction for winter time from what we've seen puts the turf tires as being good for traction on ice. What else do you use your tractor for? ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
chuckles
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 86 Eastern PA
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-01-22          139005


I have Turf Tires and they work great on paved surface with no chains.

....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
reason201
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 91 Nebraska
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-01-22          139007


I use the tractor for a variety of jobs from brush mowing to disc plowing and some minor use of the FEL. The dive I am plowing is about 1/2 mile and covered with rock. I use my back blade to plow with. The main debate I am having is to either put chains on the R4s, get a set of R1s or put a blade on my truck and leave the tractor as is.

It seems when I plow snow, it works best when I am in top range and keep my speed up but then I have to deal with al lot of wheel slip when I break traction. Wheel slip seems to be less in mid range but I get stuck more easily as the weight of the snow builds on the blade.

There may not be a great solution for this problem but I thought I would explore the possibilities. So far I have dealt with it by plowing up to where I break traction going up the hill, raise the blade, change the angle and go to the top of the hill and plow down. It works but it makes for a lot of off and on the machine to reverse blade angle. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
reason201
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 91 Nebraska
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-01-22          139008


Also, I am having a tough time figuring out the correct R1 tires for my unit. I think they would be 8 X 16 in the front and 13.6 X 28 in the rear but I am not positive. Any idea what R1s would cost in this size range? ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


Tractorpoint Parts
Fast Delivery!
Low Prices
Tractor Hydrualic Pumps for sale
Hydraulic Pumps
____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7209 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-01-22          139009


Reason, your JD is about the size of my Kubota 4310 and without 1,000++ pounds on the 3pth, I may just as well stay inside with my feet in front of the fire.

Even our small units we use for clearing sidewalks have a minimum of 750 pounds for ballast on the 3pth.

Load it up, it will seem like a different machine.

Best of luck. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
reason201
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 91 Nebraska
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-01-22          139010


Murf,

Suggestions on adding balast to the 3pt when I have the rear blade on?

Any idea how mchh weight it would add if I had the rears filled with foam? ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2685 NorthWest NJ
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-01-22          139011


I think you would be much better off adding the weight to the 3PH and putting a blade on the front, Murf has a loader with front blade, I think he has a pix of it in his TP Album.

Dennis ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7209 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-01-22          139012


Reason, are you presently plowing with a 3pth mounted rear blade?

If so, you have a big PITA to add much weight. Foam in the tires won't add tiddly-squat for weight.

If you are not using the blade for plowing, there are ways around it.

Best of luck. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-01-22          139014


Reason: You mentioned putting a plow on your truck. I realize that TP'ers love to have seat-time on the CUT but to me there's nothing like having a plow on the truck--sitting inside the cab with heat, a hot cup of coffee and listening to some tunes. Save the tractor for nice(r) weather.

But I'm jis' sayin' ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
reason201
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 91 Nebraska
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-01-22          139015


I know using the rear blade on the tractor is a very inefficient way to plow as I have to drive through the snow before the blade hits it. I do run the blade backwards to minimize it digging in and tearing up the rock. I don't really have the tools or ability to fabricate some of the unique items I have seen on many of your units. As I look into the tire idea more and more it gets very expensive as I think I have to change rims also to go from the R4s to the R1s. If I need to buy a blade for the front of the tractor, it may make more sense to just put it on the truck as I would think the cost would be about the same. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7209 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-01-22          139016


EW, not ALL of us northerners are silly enough to buy an open station machine doncha' know..... :)

I sit in my machine with the heater on, coffee at the ready, and listen to the stereo too..... in the summer I even turn up the air conditioning real high just so I can enjoy goose bumps year-round!!

Why it's warm enough that Deputy Dog doesn't even need his sweater while sittin' on my knee watching the world go by.

BTW, the Christmas lights are taking longer than I thought they would, who knew they would put so many lights up at the mall, good job I priced the job high in the first place. ;)

Best of luck. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-01-22          139019


EDIT: With the exception of Murf and a few other rich buggers, the rest of us don't have CUT cabs. The SMART ones though use trucks to plow snow.

Murf: Christmas lites: Have we exceeded the cost of using my manlift versus the supposed repair costs---which we were going to trade to bring it down here? Gettin' close to having work fer it.

And yes, I'm jis' sayin' ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


Tractorpoint Parts
Fast Delivery!
Low Prices
Tractor Cab Glass for sale
Cab Glass
____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
BillMullens
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 649 Central West Virginia
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-01-22          139020


The question has already been answered, but I'll add my opinion: R1's are bad in snow, but R4's are worse.

My TC29 is adequate in 4wd with chains on the back (with R4's). Even better would be chains on all four wheels.

Once my Mom and Dad had a barn cat they felt obligated to feed up at the farm. They drove up there after a big snow (in a 2wd truck). Dad thought he would make the walking easier by breaking a trail with the Ford 801 (Ag tires, no ballast at all). Not plowing, mind you, just driving over to the barn and back to make a path with the tire tracks. Well, he about got the Ford stuck up getting it out of the garage. He said it took him a while just to get it back in the barn.

A farm tractor without chains and/or ballast is worthless in winter.

Good luck,
Bill ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1333 Michigan
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-01-22          139032


I've been away for a while, but good to see we have the same discussions every winter. The only difference for us here in Michigan is we haven't plowed a real snow yet this year and it's late January.

R-4s work well. Have plowed Michigan snows with them, without chains, for years. And yes, while sitting in a heated cab, cup of coffee, and the stereo headphones on..... to soften the hydro whine.

Life's Good ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1307 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-01-22          139036


I would dare say the footprint weight and possibly the tire manufacturer make a huge difference.

My TC29D with Super Steer, R4 tires and four wheel drive was absolutely terrible in the snow. In fact, I purchased chains for the rear and made some for the front out of some used truck tire chains. Then it was unstoppable.

Enter Kubota B2900 with R4 tires. I cut a few links from the NH chains as the Kubota tires were smaller but I have never needed them. Only reason I can come up with is that the Kubota has a heavier footprint based upon weight and tire size of the two tractors. The tires are made by different companies if that matters, not sure.

I'm far from rich yet I installed a Curtis Cab and heater for about the same cost as a snow plow. I enjoy not being called by everybody that is your instant "friend" when it snows. Seemed that was the case when I owned trucks with plows. Also enjoy mounting stuff one time for the season. No on and off as with the truck mounted plow.

My two cents :) ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-01-22          139039


Cutter and Beagle: Now that I'm a Rankee (part redneck part yankee) not having snow this year in SE Mich. and pretty much the same last year makes me glad that I sold my Boss V-plow to a guy in Wisconsin a few months ago. Not sure if he has any more snow than Mich. has. No one in Mich. was interested in the plow---wonder why--hmmm. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
Iowafun
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 955 Central Iowa
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-01-22          139041


Ok ok ok, time to toss in my opinion, such that it is. I have R4's on my 4310. I don't have ballast and plow with a 3pt blade. It works fine. I also had a steep drive w/rock. I didn't change the angle of the blade. I did my plowing so it was all downhill. That uses the tractor weight to my advantage.

I made one pass down (4wd) at the far side of the drive. Then I back up or turned around and drove up the clean track. Then I straddle the berm I made and make another pass. I keep it up all down hill until it's done. Moving the snow over more each pass.

If it was a lighter snow, then I could return uphill. But bigger snows make it harder to go uphill without doing some slipping when the snow load builds up. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
bloggins
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 103 Kingston, Ontario
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-01-23          139045


I've got regular turf tires on my CASE DX25E (rear tires are filled (weighted)) and I plow with a 3-pt blade (FEL for the snow banks). I took the advice from this web site and stayed with the turf tires for the winter and they (you guys out there) were right. The turf's are like Zamboni tires, they never slip or slide in snow or on ice. I did learn though that with a blade, the effectiveness of clearing snow is proportional to your speed. I.E.: keep the momentum going and it works a charm, slow down and it becomes an anchor. Installed ROPS working lights are priceless. Thanks TP for all of the good advice, keep it coming. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-01-23          139053


I'd say the industrials are right for the bulk of your applications and one of the easy ways to get past your problem would be to add weights to the wheels. To add them would make a big difference in your pulling and pushing ability and not sacrifice tire life. It will cost about the same as the safe tire fluids. You might check your air pressure as even with cars a softer more flexible tire will give more traction. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7209 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-01-23          139055


Well, from someone who has waaaaay to much experience at trying to make tractors go through snow..... :(

The biggest factor is not the tires at all, it's what's UNDER them.

The best tires in the owrld will do nothing if they can't get hooked up to a solid surface that provides decent traction.

In your case Reason, plowing forwards is 90% of your problem, IMHO, by doing it this way you are asking your machine for maximum push power, for plowing, while it has minimum traction, because it's sitting on snow not solid ground. So in these circumstances no tire will give any real traction. I doubt even R1's would be able to a) force their way through much snow, and b) do it in such a way that there is still no snow of any consequence left beneath each tread bar.

By plowing forwards, with a plow in front, the machine is driving over freshly plowed ground. It has the maximum traction possible.

I agree with Art, ballast will do more than anything else will, definitely the best bang for your buck. You don't need anything fancy or elaborate either.

If you look at DRankins pictures you will see a very simple bracket that you can make with nothing more than a few hand tools, to mount barbell type weights to the wheels of your machine.

You can do the same sort of thing using bags of Portland cement from the building center. First, for BOTH back wheels, make up a piece of heavy steel flat bar with holes that will line up to bolt through the extra holes in the rims. Hopefully more than two, or use two pices in an 'X' shape. In the exact center, or at least as close as you can make it, drill one large hole. Get two pieces of large threaded rod and 8 nuts, the biggest you can find, 3/4" or 1" in diameter, and long enough to bolt into the flat bars, and come out far enough to protrude out at least a few inches beyond the outside of the tire sidewalls. Now remove and lay one rear tire flat on the ground, drape a large sheet of very heavy plastic over the tire with a piece of plastic pipe JUST bigger than the threaded rod is, and place it over the threaded rod, but UNDER the pastic sheet. Leave LOTS of slack in the pastic sheet or it will tear. Place a protector of some form under the pastic shee, duct taping a small plastic yogurt container works good, over the tire valve stem. Mix the concrete as per the instructions and pour it into the dish created by the rim lined with plastic. Be sure to put at least one 'handle' in the wet cement before it cures to make handling it easier later. At least 24 hours later lift the concrete out, you will probably need a hand or a mechanical lift, and make a second one exactly the same as the first, just be sure to either swap mounting brackets on the wheel being used as a form, or that both are identical so that you don't end up with two 'left' wieghts!! Cut the plastic sheeting to leave the plastic tube in the center, and if possible remove as much of the sheeting as possible to allow the concrete to cure. Allow each weight at least 7 days to cure before mounting and using, longer is better, especially in cold weather, some steel rebar in there is not essential but a very good idea.

This will give you far better traction, but not perfect.

Turning around backwards and plowing in reverse, while far from comfortable, will also give you much better traction, since at least some of the snow will have been plowed from the ground you are driving over.

Sorry for the length of post guys.

Best of luck. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


Tractorpoint Parts
Fast Delivery!
Low Prices
Tractor Hydrualic Pumps for sale
Hydraulic Pumps
____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
reason201
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 91 Nebraska
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-01-23          139058


I really appriciate everyones help... I agree that driving through the snow and then plowing it just does not cut it. I have found that there is an 84 inch front blade that will hook to the 460 FEL, I have not found it yet but that sure sounds like a better solution than I have now. They say it has hydraulic angle adjustment so I assume that it must use one of the existing hydraulic feeds. (maybe the one that runs the bucket tilt)

I am also looking into a set of chains for front and rear. I already have 2 sets of wheel weights on the rears so if I want more I will have to find a way to hang them on the back. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7209 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-01-23          139061


Reason, a quick question, have you looked into a quick attach bracket for your FEL?

There are several aftermarket manufacturers who make them, some of them are not a lot of money, and they allow any industry standard attachment to hook up to it. Then all you need is an attachment to hook a 3pth implement in place of the bucket, or a proper truck plow itself. They are certainly a lot less money than a front blade would be, and a lot more usefull for a lot of different jobs.

A word of caution though, even with a fixed blade on the 3pth, frozen ground, or items frozen INTO the ground, don't offer much give. Since a rear blade has no sring-loaded edge like a snow plow does, if you hit something solid, you WILL; a) hurt yourself, or, b) hurt your blade, or, c) hurt your tractor, or, d) all of the above!! :(

Best of luck. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
reason201
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 91 Nebraska
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-01-23          139062


No doubt about it Murf, I would not even consider a front blade without spings and a fold over feature. I think you would just be begging for trouble. Pain and repairs are definitely not on my shopping list. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4293 Southwest MiddleTennessee
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-01-23          139065


Reason,

What size wheel weights do you have on your tractor? I believe they come in 55 lb. and 105 lb. plates. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
reason201
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 91 Nebraska
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-01-23          139067


Chief,

I believe they are the 105 lb weights, I have 2 of them on each side and as I remember, the total was around 400 lbs. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1333 Michigan
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-01-23          139068


A rather wsimple solution to the trip feature on a rear blade is to reverse the blade. Always pull (or push) the blade reversed. With the cutting edge facing away from the direction of travel, and the float of the 3-point, the blade rides over "most" obstructions without a problem. Except for deep snow, the reversed blade still does a good job of moving the snow. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7209 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-01-23          139074


For small bumps, and gravel, the now infamous "Murphy Pipe" works well too.... :)

It also allows you to ballast the blade and not dig

BTW, a rear blade turned around, but with a rod mounted on the crossbar of the frame with a couple of barbell plates slipped over them makes a big diference too. It stops the blade rising up onto the snow as much.

Best of luck. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
reason201
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 91 Nebraska
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-01-24          139137


OK going to askm a related question... I currently do not have my tires filled with anything other than air. In reading a different post, I saw several posts talking about fluid filling the tires. In particular I saw some comments about a product called RimGuard. While it does not appear that it provides quite as much weight as calcium chloride, it is also bio degradable and non-corrosive. If the manufacturers tables are correct, I could add over 1000 lb to the rear of the unit and about 250 to the front. Would this be enough weight to make a difference to the traction of the tractor? Also, I have been looking at rear chains. Is $350 about right for a pair to fit 17.5l-24 R4s?

Seems like the more I look into this issue, the more variables there are, I guess that is why this forum is so good... nothing beats real world experience. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


Tractorpoint Parts
Fast Delivery!
Low Prices
Tractor Hydrualic Pumps for sale
Hydraulic Pumps
____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1333 Michigan
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-01-24          139138


If you calculated your weights by volume, be sure you inly inlcuded 75% for each tire. The volume above the top of the rim does not get filled. You need that volume for the air pocket in the tire. You numbers seem a little high.

Filling the front tires isn't very effective, and not a good idea if you have 4wd. You are better off with fron weights. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7209 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-01-24          139139


First off, any weight will help, more weight will be more help.

The problem with filling tires though, is it is NOT easy to remove or install, in most cases, it is there for the life of the tire. So, if cutting a (even partially) manicured lawn is on your chore list for that machine, think long and hard about filling tires, you will NOT like what filled tires do when turning a corner on grass. Or even driving straight forward on soft ground for that matter. You WILL leave visible tread marks behind.

Filled tires are also a PITA if you get a flat, some tire companies just won't even touch filled tires, and Rim Guard can be a real problem since very few people use it. To fix a tire thay have to first pump your tire empty, this is done by pumping into their tank, if that is already part full, as is the norm, with CaCl, you will either get a blend of CaCl back in afterwards, or they will have to rig up a new tank just for you. A PITA no matter how you slice it.

As for the chains, they will be a BIG help, even without adding weights. Prices for that size tire should range between about $200 and $500 depending on what style, etc., you go with. Since it is the cross (or ladder) bars that give you bite, double cross chains make a big difference, on ice or frozen ground, V-bar type chains are a huge asset.

Best of luck. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
reason201
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 91 Nebraska
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-01-25          139167


Well guys this must be my lucky day... I checked with RimGuard and they said there is a dealer less than 15 miles from me. He is quoting me $300 installed price (which seems a bit high) but if it helps cure my problem and improves traction, it will be the best money I have ever spent. They are estimating I will add a little over 1000 lb to the rears.

I am also looking at ordering a set of chains for the rears. I am looking at a chain pattern called a duo-chain. Looks like it would give a good bite on the ground and not drop in between the lugs as much.

Verdict is still out on the front blade, I looked at the Frontier unit and also a Meyers unit both look like they would do a good job but at nearly $2500.00 installed, I don't think I plow enough to justify it. It would be a cool toy (uh...tool) to use. I guess if I decide a new plow is the way to go it would make more sense for me to put it on my truck, I would get a lot more use out of it.

Thanks for everyones input on this issue... Once again, TP comes through. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7209 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-01-25          139168


Reason, if there's someone nearby you who does fabricating and welding, you can rig up a front plow like that shown in my picture # 15 for about $500 all in, using an older truck plow as the basis.

Best of luck. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
reason201
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 91 Nebraska
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-01-29          139298


Just an update... Got the tires filled on Saturday, they took a total of 95 gal of solution which should equate to right at 1000 lbs.

I noticed something I had not considered earlier, in the present wheel configuration there is not room for chains to clear on the rears. I am not sure what all would have to be done but it looks like I would have to remove each wheele and then remove the center section and possibly turn it over or mount it to the other side of the outer rim. Looks like a good deal of work.

I guess now it is time to wait for a snow and see how much difference the extra weight makes. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-01-29          139300


Do your R4s have 8-way rims? I thought JD R4s were usually mounted on single piece rims. Anyway, filled those things are extremely heavy. I'd recommend calling a tire shop to come and do any flipping around you need done. It's real easy to lose a finger doing that job with filled tires. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1545 Moravia, NY
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-01-29          139304


If they are 1 piece rims simply move the wheels and tires to the oppsite side of tractor. It will give you a couple more inches of clearance. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5242 South Carolina
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-01-29          139305


reason, you know this but if you jack up the rear to change tires from one side to the other, be sure you use two sets of jacks and blocks. If not you could get in big trouble with the pivoting front axle. Been there, done that. Thank the Lord it only resulted in small dent in fender. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


Tractorpoint Parts
Fast Delivery!
Low Prices
Tractor Alternator for sale
Alternators
____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4293 Southwest MiddleTennessee
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-01-29          139310


The 4710 one piece rims for the R-4 tires may be different although I would thing not that much from the rims on the 4410. When I looked into swapping the rims and tires out in order to widen the tire width; the change would result in about a half inch of extra width. Noth hardly worth the effort in my opinion. The 4710 owner's manual goes over this and the resulting increase in width. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
Blueman
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 243 Washington, PA
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-02-07          139622


Chief, I haven't been on too much lately, but I started that TP members coming and going thread...due to not "seeing" you around...GLAD to have you back! Hope you stay for a long time...
Oh, and my 2 cents worth today (after sliding into a tree this past weekend)...R4 tires are useless to me. I hate them.
That is all.
Sean ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4293 Southwest MiddleTennessee
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-02-07          139624


Thanks Sean,

TP is indeed a great place. I hear ya on the R-4 industrial tires. Not much help in mud or snow as the tread loads up quickly. Chains are a pain in the butt along with the fender clearance problems. Keep an eye out for a set of R-1 Ag tires and rims or you may be able to trade for a set. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
Blueman
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 243 Washington, PA
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-02-07          139625


Now if we could only get Mark back.... ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7209 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-02-08          139650


If you're NOT operating on pavement or concrete, look into studs (short carbide screws with VERY sharp flanged-heads) used on ice racing motorcycles.

A big box is not much money, and they go in with a nut-driver on a cordless drill, it only takes a few minutes to do it.

They will give you unbelievable grip in ice!!

Best of luck. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
Blueman
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 243 Washington, PA
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-02-08          139651


Murf,
How long would they last if I have to cross a paved road, or occassionally, drive a 1/4 mile or so on a paved road? I know I have some ice, but my problem is with hard packed snow...I keep the tractor in a barn on the other side of a 30 degree sloped hill from my house...and when it is time to split wood or scrape the driveway in the winter, it is a royal pain to get the tractor over to my house where it is needed. I mow my parent's lawn with the tractor, and so I am reluctant to switch to R1's. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7209 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-02-08          139652


Blueman, they last a long time, wear is not the issue, chewing up the pavement is.

We used to use them in a commercial snow removal application, both at a trucking terminal and we needed to clear the ramps and loading docks, nothing else would plow up the ramps, and also clearing the access ramps for underground parking at the condo complexes.

A set would last a full season of commercial plowing operations no problem.

They changed the regulations now though after a person was killed when a vehicle they were trying to push slid down the ramp and killed them when they were pinned between it and another vehicle. All such ramps have to be heated to keep them clear now.

They don't do much for deep snow, but on hard-pack, or ice, they're tremendous.

Best of luck. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
reason201
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 91 Nebraska
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-02-16          139797


OK guys, time for a follow up... I finally had a chance to check the plowing ability since I had the tires filled. All I want to know is who came over and gave me that bigger tractor?

What a difference, I used to have issues going up the slope sections in my drive when plowing just 2 or 3 inches of snow with the rear blade. I would have to lift the blade, go to the top of the hill and plow down the slope. Last night I had snow pouring over the top of the blade and climbed right up the slope with no slippage. I hade the drive done in 30 minutes rather than the hour it used to take. I was glad too because at 5 degrees below zero with no cab, it was cold!!! I plowed in B range which was about all the unit wanted without boging down the engine.

I would have posted this earlier but I was recovering from learning my lesson about remembering to put additives in the fuel to prevent gelling. Those e-hydros don't tow worth a darn when they don't run. :( 2 hours to pull it 200 yards up to the building. A lesson well learned.

I am very surprised and thrilled at the way the unit plows now... Bring on the snow. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


Tractorpoint Parts
Fast Delivery!
Low Prices
Tractor Water Pumps for sale
Water Pumps
____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4293 Southwest MiddleTennessee
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-02-16          139798


Diesel fuel gelling has recently become a VERY serious and troublesome issue with the introduction of ULSD. Evidently, ULSD gells much more readily than old LSD. Be sure to add enough anti-gel additive to your fuel especially during this cold snap. Sorry about the side track post. This sounds like a great subject for a new thread. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-02-16          139800


You towed your hydro? Unless it was in neutral and is physically disconnected from the engine or the rear axle you can blow a hydro by inputting too much back-power by pulling ("back-power" as in using a larger machine/truck/winch that overcomes the same tractive effort the CUT had when under it's own power---say, it's okay to pull it with tires skidding on ice--but hit a dry strip of pavement under power and something could POP big time).

When a hydro pedal is centered (not technically or actually neutural) BUT still in range "gear" the system acts like brake due to resistance. Some machines like my skid steer and backhoe have a special relief screw on top of the hydraulic motor that can be backed off to allow fluid to circulate inside the motor preventing the brake effect. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
reason201
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 91 Nebraska
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-02-16          139803


I did what I could to set the tractor to be pulled. I set the range selector into neutral but that really doesn't make the unit much easier to pull. I don't think I ever got the tractor to move much faster than 1-2 mph. I was towing it with a combination of my ATV with it's winch, my yukon and sometimes both in tandem.

I checked with the dealer and he said there really was not much else I could do to disconnect the transmision and make the unit roll easier. I am sure that the gear lube was like putty.

If others have information on other things that can be done to the 4000 series JD E-hydros when to need to pull them, I would love to hear it. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7209 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-02-16          139804


Most hydros have a by-pass valve that can be opened to allow the fluid to flow freely in the case you need to move them without the engine running.

Check your owners manual.

Best of luck. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
reason201
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 91 Nebraska
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-02-16          139814


The dealer talked about a by-pass valve also but darned if he or I could find mention of it in the documents for the 4710. He thought since it was in neutral for the range selector and also since it was moved quite slowly, it should be ok.

Sure seemed to work ok last night. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Industrial R4 versus R1 Ag Tires for Snow

View my Photos
cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1307 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2007-02-16          139815


Your idea Chief, why not start that thread on ULSD?

The school buses around here quit running the first really cold day a few weeks ago. Government mandate the way I understand it. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Return to index    Go Top


Share This