HST and PTO HP: Tractor Projects  -- General Tractor Discussion Forum and Review HST and PTO HP: Tractor Projects -- General Tractor Discussion Forum

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 12-11-2005, 22:56 Post: 120880
Peters

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 HST and PTO HP

Can anyone tell me why there is such a large difference in loss of PTO HP with hydrostatic drive? Is there a large difference in the hydrostatic pumps? For example~30HP tractors; Kubota L3130 8.1HP, L2800-6.5HP, B7800-8.0HP; JD 4210-6HP, 3120-7.5 HP; NH/IH -TC29DA-5.4HP, MF 1528 -6HP; Kioti CK30-8HP; CubCadet 6228 7HP. From the lowest to the highest is 2.7 HP.






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 12-12-2005, 08:01 Post: 120892
Murf



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 HST and PTO HP

There is a fair amount of parasitic losses with any HST system, that then has a 'trickle down' effect on the rest of the system, PTO included.

Different manufacturers also rate their units differently as we already know, when it gets to HST's it gets even more convoluted. Some advertise "theoretical" power outputs, some bench-tested engines & TX's, but with the pump idling in neutral, which is still not really a true measure either.

I've even seen examples where a particular engine, including like spec. numbers, are rated differently in various applications.

Best of luck.






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 12-12-2005, 08:45 Post: 120898
DRankin



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 HST and PTO HP

This is what I kept yelling about when I had an RTV 900.

I figured that thing had about 9 HP by the time it got to the wheels. You can get away with that in a tractor but not in a unit that is also designed to achieve 25 mph top speed.

I wish someone with a dynometer(Sp?) would put some popular models to the test and tell the rest of us what actually gets to the ground.






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 12-12-2005, 09:14 Post: 120905
Chief



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 HST and PTO HP

I agree with the above. From what I have observed and this is just my personal observation/theory/speculation.......the HST system does create parasitic hp loss with respect to pto hp output but I think the amount of hp loss is dependent upon how much of a load is placed on the HST sytem. The only time I have seen the engine struggle to maintain rpm is when I have place a large load or resistance on the HST system. Otherwise I have not noticed much if any hp loss running implements such as my pto tiller. My thinking is that the HST consumes a variable amount of pto hp dependent upon how much demand for power is placed upon the HST system. I suspect the pto hp losses specified by each manufacturer is arrived at a little differently and more than likely a worst case max. hp. loss.






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 12-12-2005, 09:14 Post: 120906
Peters

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 HST and PTO HP

The stats are all for similar sized tractors and HST. You have Kubota with 2.5 HP difference with a similar engine and HST? Deere has a 1.5 HP difference. Remember 30 HP so you are talking a difference of near 10% and 5% loss of total HP by single companies. You would hope they would measure the HP the same.
What is more confusing for me is that the more resent designs are worse than the older ones? Is there any difference in the design basics?






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 12-12-2005, 09:28 Post: 120910
Murf



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I think the differences between the older stuff and the newer designs has more to do with the marketing department than the engineering people.

;->






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 12-12-2005, 09:29 Post: 120911
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 HST and PTO HP

In general I have noted that Kubota HST's, especially the 3 speed models, seem to suffer more loss at the PTO than than the Deere two speeds.

I don't know if the extra gearing plays into it.






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 12-12-2005, 18:22 Post: 120930
Peters

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 HST and PTO HP

What started me looking at this was the description of the new efficient HST pump on the Kioti CK 30 HST and the poor numbers on the PTO.
Maybe the new tractors just have larger altenators for the roll up window and the beer coolers?






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 12-14-2005, 20:34 Post: 121081
Art White



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I've run both the two range and three in many different applications and I'll take a three range any day. As far as the new higher performance most often in many companies means better then they had before. Still might not be the highest or best but new to them!






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 12-14-2005, 22:05 Post: 121090
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I would rather have three ranges too......

Maybe next time.






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