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Forums > Active Threads > Other Tractor Brands > Shibaura

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Jack Hardman
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2004-08-11          93256


I'm trying to learn about the relationship between Shibaura and New Holland, e.g. TC-33DA "Boomer" tractor.

Does Shibaura have a website?

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lsheaffer
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2004-08-11          93282


Shibaura makes the engine & drive train for Ford/New Holland/ Case. Assembled in the US. ....

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homebrew
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2004-08-17          93699


Is this engine the same as the perkins 104-19? ....

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JackHardman
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2004-08-17          93711


The Perkins 104-19 is a 4 cylinder engine, and it looks nothing like the 3 cylinder Shibaura engine. Google on "perkins 104-19" for spec sheet.

Jack ....

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homebrew
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2004-08-18          93781


Is the 104-19 the same as the u844 used in the ls160 and the larger boomer. ....

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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
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2004-08-20          93902


New Holland no longer uses any Perkins engines. The LS160 and 170 as well as the TC 48 and 55 all use the same engine plus or minus the turbo. They are made by Shibaura.
....

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homebrew
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2004-08-20          93929


Shibaura is owned by perkins which is owned by catipillar.
perkins-shibaura has 2 usa plants 1 in griffin ga. the 2nd is in pennsylvania. the u844 new holland engine has the same bore and stroke as the perkins 104-19. The valve cover gasket is the same but i do not know if the internal parts are the same. Any help will be great because the perkins parts cost less and are easey to get.
THANKS CJ. ....

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jmathome
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2004-12-16          102404


Hi,my first post. I have a Ford 1710 with a Shibaura H843 engine (3 cylinders). The block has developed a crack at the left lower side near thr oil pan and the transmission bolt. The engine works fine but the crack is getting larger with use. Any suggestions on a short block vs complete engine or other options. Thanks much Joe ....

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oneace
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2004-12-17          102448


It all depends on what you want to spend and what your mechanical abilities are. ....

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lsheaffer
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 1062 Northern Illinois
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2004-12-17          102464


I know Shibaura went bankrupt a number of years ago & I heard it was bought by Yanmar. I have a Japanese freind that purchases tractors for me in Japan that confirms this. Also when I get Shibaura parts from Japan they come with Yanmar labels on the bags. ....

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lsheaffer
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2004-12-17          102465


I may be getting a couple 1710 parts tractors in the near future. I usually recommend to people to replace the bad parts & rebuild what they have unless they are very confident that the used motor is in good condition. This route is usually cheaper & the will have better engine. ....

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Moulder
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2007-09-20          145911


Dude! to much homebrew. Shibaura own Shibaura, big USA companies build very little of there own machinery, they sub it all out to overseas companies. Shibaura have made tractors for Ford/New Holland, Case, and a couple of others, Shibaura did use Perkins licensed engines in the over 50hp tractors for a few years but not in the small stuff.
As for Perkins and Catipillar they get most of there gear made in China and India these days along with Komatsu.

Yenmar make most small John Deere tractors and have no direct affiliation with Shibaura.
Iseki make a lot of tractors for Massey Ferguson these days. A lot of parts are copied by competing Japanese manufacturers and some parts used by opposing Tractor manufacturers come from the same core suppliers.

These days the big-name tractor companies are just supermarkets who buy in their products with their logo already printed in them. ....

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mobilus
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2007-09-20          145923


Moulder, the one exception to your statement that I know of is Kubota. I liked that fact, so I bought that brand. ....

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AnnBrush
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2007-09-20          145929


Buying a engine made by a third party is often a good idea. In the case of John Deere they might not have had as much experience building modern small diesel engines as Yanmar. If you are at all familiar with boating you might consider the following. Would you buy a Bayliner speedboat with a bayliner engine - I would probably prefer it to be powered by a yamaha or mariner? For a long time yanmar diesels have been a solid choice as a engine for sail boats, due in part to their simplicity and general reliability. We also turn a blind eye to the fact that almost all engine powered yard work machines are powered by an engine made by someone else - briggs, kohler etc. It lets Kohler focus on building engines and Deere focus on building tractors - both very specialist occupations. ....

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earthwrks
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2007-09-20          145937


Yeah and it makes warranty (costs) issues easy to pawn off on the supplier too like Ford has done with Navistar (?) lately with their Superduty diesels. ....

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kwschumm
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2007-09-20          145939


If warranty problems are easy to pawn off on a supplier then the company lawyer should be fired. ....

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earthwrks
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2007-09-21          145940


Which lawyers?
With Ford--at least in these days of contemptuous relationships between supplier and buyer---that's how the world of Automotive works (or doesn't) when the executives look for every possible way to save money at someone else's expense and reputation so they can be the knights-in-shining-armor that they "saved" the company money (and so that they get their big bonuses). Simple greed. Then they try to negotiate down the actual costs for pennies on a dollar, and most companies can't afford to sue and fight back, so they settle and sometimes go belly up. And Ford laughs all the way to the bank.

But well-heeled Navistar took them to court and won. And Ford had the balls to have tell a judge to force Navistar to continue to build engines while it was in litigation---a double slap in the face. Navistar also won a breach of contract when it was discovered that Ford went ahead and started developing their own version of diesel to replace Navistar completely. The theory being, that if Ford doesn't get "what they want" they will do it themselves. I think it's comical because these auto companies will do anything they feel like if it's good for them and their shareholders.

We used to wait sometimes a year to get paid. The owner of our company whose company was founded by working with Ford to design build and install their 1968 Cougar(?) moonroofs---told them go f%$#& themselves. They don't like that, but that's how the game has to be played. Otherwise YOU are played.

Years ago the company I worked for made aftermarket sunroofs. They had a big batch of sunroof motors that went bad early (nearly a thousand). We had some 600 licensed aftermarket companies installing and repairing them. Once word got out there were bad motors, automatically they would remove and replace the motor under warranty which paid up to $300 15 years ago. We started getting a 4' cube shipping box filled about every other week from around the country of "bad" motors. The licensees found what they thought was an easy money grab. SO the warrnty department got wise and started testing the returned motors and found they were not bad. They went back and debitted all those accounts that defrauded them. All that did was was make the licensees find different or harder-to-detect warranty claims and 3 more people had to hired to ferret out those problems. ....

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kwschumm
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2007-09-21          145945


The consumer doesn't care what happens between Ford and the supplier, when they buy a Ford they have a right to expect Ford to honor the warranty. Behind the scenes Ford and their supplier can sue each other until they both go out of business. ....

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kthompson
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2007-09-21          145946


From a person who has owned many a Ford with the way Ford has embraced the Gay and Lesbian community so widely that would please me. I have no problem with treating Gay and Lesbians fairly but to the point point Ford has is not fair, it is very biased that direction. So to used ew line above, "told them go f%$#& themselves" guess they are. If you are not aware of this, look on line for where what events Ford pays for. They are not secret about it at all. It is their right but mine to stand up and say, no more Ford in my drive way.

Do not take this as I hate Gays or such. I do not care for any "in your face attitude" regardless of the group. kt ....

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earthwrks
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2007-09-21          145963


Kenny:

It's purely "good business" for mfg's. to saddle up to certain groups. And let's face it the gay/les. group is well-heeled even more so than us heteros (speaking for myself, Kenny LOL).

And when the auto industry is in the bad shape that it's in they have to be creative and persue every avenue of making a sale--really regardless of who they offend---or coddle. And yes, it's a calculated risk that the Religious Right will balk (like yourself---but you're NOT that offended so you'll look the other way and buy a Ford). And when they do Ford will have another plan. Just look at TV and radio advertising and how they focus on a certain group like blacks--all the actors are black and the veiwership and listenership is black too. ....

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earthwrks
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2007-09-21          145964


KW: I didn't necessarily mean to say (didn't think I did) that the consumer should care---not that he can do anything about it.

But that is a good point.

They should care, or at least be aware because when you take you new $50,000 truck to get fixed and the dealer says "Uh, no, we are NOT going to even look at it because there is a chance we won't get paid for it (with the fighting over warranty going on)" (think the game of "musical chairs")---what's a dealer to do? They don't have to honor the warranty at all. They have the right to tell you take it down the road. And some dealers have more clout with mfg's than others so you may luck out and get it fixed at another dealer.

I have seen it first hand, and up close---too close. And I've been on both sides of the fence from a warranty perspective. ....

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andrew6704
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2007-11-14          148260


I have a Shibaura SD2003 she spun a bearing and messed up the crank and a rod. I have been searching for parts I found bearings but the crank is to bad to be turned. Is the engine in the ford 1710 the same? Is there some where I can get a short or long block? I have found a listing for crankshaft for ford 1710, will it work? ....

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Moulder
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2007-11-14          148270


Hi AnnBrush, you miss understood what I said about John Deere! they didn't just use Yanmar engines in their tractors they used Yanmar tractors with JD badges on them and as far as I am aware they still do, except for some of the Brazilian made models.
The Big US based Ag tractor manufactures like CASE and JOHN DEERE FORD/NEW HOLLAND etc etc make little or none of their own tractors anymore. Even Kubota have shifted some of their manufacturing to Korea and China, although Korea is getting to expensive now. If you want to buy a tractor made by the labeled company stick with Kubota, Shibaura, Izeki, Yanmar they are the biggest and best Japanese manufactures and if you buy a small compact - John Deere, Case or MF you will most likely end up with one of the aforementioned Japanese tractors anyway!
Just have a close look at the VIN or ID badges etc on the Tractor trans etc and you can find out for yourself and report back here with your findings!!

Happy hunting! ....

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candoarms
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2007-11-14          148273


Moulder,

The new Cub Cadet line of tractors is going to be manufactured in the U.S. (Georgia) with most parts being made right here in the U.S.

True...the new Cub Cadet line of tractors will be made by Yanmar, but in plants located in Adairsville, Georgia, and by American workers.

Cub Cadet / Yanmar announced recently that a new engine plant was being added to the tractor manufacturing plant already in operation. Yanmar is planning to produce over 100,000 diesel engines per year in the new Georgia plant, for equipment that will be sold and used right here in the U.S.A. (The new plant should be opening soon, if not already. Scheduled to open in November of 2007)

It's a bit hard to swallow.......but if you want a U.S. made tractor, we'll now have to look to the Cub Cadet / Yanmar line......and it's a GOOD ONE!

See the thread on this board dedicated to the new Cub Cadet Ex3200. Better yet, go check one out and then get a price quote! The price makes it even better!

Joel ....

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brokenarrow
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2007-11-14          148282


Moulder
Infact, just the other day I had to drill out a bad rivet on one of our (New Holland/Case) Transmisions (Name plate/serial number tags) . Fact is that we do make most the parts here in the states and we manufacture the best BEST gears right here in Racine. We have the lowest rework/scrap of all out vendors when it comes to gears. England has come here to watch us. Italy has come here taking pics. They still can not match our quality on the same parts we manufacture. Graziano (makes some of our gears) they are good but not as good as ours. Of all the things we do well here in Wi, Gearing stands out the most.
Lets see, we manufacture / machine our housings for just about all our tractors we make here (Racine) IN HOUSE. Our axels for the 4 wheel drives we make in Racine and send to Grand fork ND, the combine transmisions we make many many parts for and assemble the whole thing here in Racine. ( we make one of the best combines around) The center sections,clutch housings VALVES (bodys and assemblys) we do in house. I can go on and on but wont. Im sure its not too high though (percent of parts we manufacture in our rigs) since there are soo many parts in a tractor. What we do make here, we make very well. I am very dis-pleased (and so are the upper management folks) that we do not make out own castings anymore. Yes we use china crap castings now in some of our products. We are paying for it though with scrapped out piles very high (casting defects) Very hard to get changes made lick-idy-split, when they are over seas. My point is that NOT all our stuff is not made over sea. Fact is that most of our parts are made right here in USA. If not by us than by an ISO 9001 etc vendor. Its just not practical (LIKE ANN BRUSH SAID) to manufacture all your parts. Not cost effective and not in the core buisness profile to make tires, switches, fittings,hoses,wireing harnesses, windshields, gaurds ETC ETC. A company has to piuck and choose what it is that would best be made by in house folks and what would be best quality wise and cost effectiveness wise to be made outside.
KUBOTA thier own engines? Thats great. If they specialize in that then more power to them! I ask you this though? Do they machine their own gears, tubing,valves,housings,lifters, seals,o-rings (a engine is only as good as its seals) etc etc for every part in the engine? I think not (although I could be wrong, I dont know) My point is that when you say they manufacture their OWN ENGINE, just how much of that ENGINE in made in house?
Like ANN said, if a company makes a good product, buy it! Just cause a company dont machine all parts (or any parts) dont mean its inferior. In fact, if you take and buy all the very best manufacured parts out there and put together a product with them (assemble) then you have a very good product that would not have any other name on it but the company that took the parts and completed a part to sell.

I can tell you that we do not get MANY parts (Machined parts) from china ( I wish we had none! they are crap) We have already started pulling back some casting work from them and put it back in the states! One good thing about fuel prices rising I guess.
My 2 cent worth and as you can tell (no spell check, I need to get to bed to go make some quality New Holland parts/tooling in the morning ....

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Moulder
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2007-11-15          148283


Hi BrokenArrow, cool there is a real person out there someone that actually works in one of the parts factories. You have also miss understood part of what I said! I did not and would not say that any American or for that matter Japanese made parts are inferior, in my experience they are mostly of a high standard. But you have told us that you make some world class gears etc but do you make any tractors there?? I would like to know if there is actually a plant in the US currently making any complete Tractors (not just parts or bolting them together) and sure I know buying in an engine in is not the end of the world. I know there is none in Australia.

As for John Deere's compact tractor manufacture- Yanmar is a Japanese company and if they can strike up a good deal in any country they would certainly consider setting up manufacture there! and with the US economy in decline and decreased cost of labor combined with Government incentives makes the US look pretty good at the moment maybe a Yanmar factory in the US is not out of the question. And then JD could say that their compacts are made in the US with out looking to dubious.
I know some of the old Fords were made in the US and were different to the UK and Australian release machines but that was a long time ago.

And yes its true that Yanmar, Shibaura, Kubota etc don't make every single part in their own factories and yes they do share some common components and often use the same suppliers for parts they can't or don't want to make in their own factory. Plus with the standard of living so high in Japan (and therefore the increase in Labor costs) it won't be long (if not already) that they, like many US, Australian and UK companies turn to China and India for cheaper labor hence cheaper manufacturing costs.

I just think we all have to be careful about being to high and mighty about brand names and also careful about buying based on big brand names, I know that some of those prehistoric attitudes are still in circulation. As a couple of guys have pointed out in this posting the big multi national companies only care about the share holders and the bottom line, customers are just fodder, dealers are tools and reputations are based on advertising propaganda!
Don't belive me! find out for your self ask questions read the fine print, get armed with information and choose wisely!

Or just ask the dealer your considering buying from for a list of customers willing to be contacted whom own the same model of tractor you thinking of buying.


As for Andrew, the SD2003 was released for the Japanese market only and Shibaura, like Kubota, do not and will not support used domestic tractors exported to western countries, by fly-by-nighters, so they wont even supply there distributors/dealers with parts or info.
I believe, if my memory serves, that the New Holland TC24 or TC25 Boomer is the closest US release model to the SD2003, it's not a Ford 1710 which is a lot older and only about 17hp as opposed to yours which is about 23hp in Japanese terms 24 or 25 in US inflated hp.
....

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homebrew
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2007-11-15          148311



Once and again: Perkins opens second new plant in less than a year; Griffin first sub-100 hp industrial diesel plant in U.S

Diesel Progress North American Edition, June, 2004 by Mike Osenga
with the formal dedication of its Griffin, Ga., facility oil May 12, Perkins
Hans Haefeli, newly named president of Perkins, said an Asian operation in China or India might also be a possibility.

"The key is, we are not moving production out of Peterborough, we are adding capacity due to the increase in demand for these engin," Haefeli said. The opening of Griffin and Curitiba last year, gives us global manufacturing flexibility and positions us near where our customers manufacture their products.

"These facilities reduce logistics and lead times, both increasingly important in today's engine business," Haefeli added. "We will continue to look at other opportunities to do this in other locations."

Advertisement
Choosing a location in the Southeast, about an hour south of Atlanta, was no accident either. "We chose the location near Atlanta because of the excellent logistics it provides for our North America customers;' said Jeremy Canham, general manager; Industrial Power Systems.

"It will be an engine made in America, the first tinge ever that Perkins has manufactured engines of this size here. Being located in the eastern U.S., the Griffin facility will be in close proximity to a high percentage of our North America customers," Canham added.

The 55,000 sq.ft, facility will assemble the Perkins 400 series of two-, three and four-cylinder, turbocharged and naturally aspirated, indirect-injection diesels, with outputs from 10 to 60 bhp. Griffin will also manufacture the Caterpillar model 3011C to 3024CT diesels, which are based on the same platform as the 400 series. The Perkins 400 series had heretofore been built only in Peterborough and by ISM in Japan.

The Griffin operation is expected to eventually produce as many as 60,000 engines annually, with a near-term target of 30,000. The plant currently employs 48 people, with employment expected to be 90 by the end of this year and possibly 150 by the end of 2005.

The new engine plant is located in what is rapidly becoming Caterpillar's "South Campus." Another Cat facility in the same complex builds electrical power generation and oil and gas packages, and there is also a Cat Logistics operation located nearby. Further, last year Cat moved production of its 3412 diesels from Mossville to the Griffin site, an operation housed in the module packaging plant.

Assembling engines in Griffin is part of a five-year strategy to increase production of the 400 series to over 100,000 engines annually, said Paul Clark, facility manager for Griffin. "When we looked at what it would take to build 100,000 engines, it continued on page 106 was obvious a significant manufacturing expansion, especially in North American, was going to be needed."

"We were at capacity in Peterborough," Haefeli said, "and for the volumes we aspired to with the 400 series we knew we were going to have to build in the U.S." Hacfeli added that he expected Perkins to be "well through" the 100,000 goal by the end of 2005.

The single largest customer for Griffin is Caterpillar's skid-steer loader manufacturing plant in SanFord, N.C., about 400 miles from Griffin.

However, Richard Case, managing director, industrial power systems, said that less than 40% of Griffin's production is destined for Cat machines, with the remainder going, under either the Cat or Perkins name, into a range of off-highway equipment built by other manufacturers. Specific external uses include turf maintenance, welders and pump sets, as well as construction uses such as light towers, generator sets and aerial lifts.

Griffin is designed as a "mirror image" of the Perkins-Shibaura facilities in Peterborough which began operation in 1996, the same year the joint venture was sidled. In fact, all the initial technicians on the Griffin line spent four weeks Ironing on the Perkins-Shibaura line in Peterborough.

Like that operation and Curitiba as well, this is primarily an engine assembly operation built around simples flexible processes in which all major components arrive at the plant fully machined. There are no machining operations at either Curitiba or Griffin or the Perkins-Shibaura operations in Peterborough.

The assembly line at Griffin has 17 stations fed by 11 sub-assembly stations, including a complete cylinder head assembly and test operation. The engines come to the line as bare blocks and the various sub-assemblies are added to the engine as it moves down the line.


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andrew6704
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2007-11-15          148323


Thanks Homebrew, All of this is good to know but the problem is that we have these things and I understand that things break. No we break things, so we can fix them. I thank if I ever get this fixed I'll find another sucker that will take it off of my hands. Now that I have vented, what about adapter plates, molt-patterned bell housings and or mounting surfaces much like being done in the automobile industry by after marketers? Like the auto and truck aftermarket industries available and flexibility have been keys to their successes. I am a drag racer and I have run across fords with Chevy engines, ford transmissions, dodge rear-ends and pinto steering. I can go to the local parts store and buy it and in a lot of case off the shelf. There are hundreds of automobile after marketers making factory replacement and specialty parts and assemblies. Is it in Perkins' vision to fill the gap? I would love to bolt a brand new Perkins 403C-15 in this thing then maybe I will not have to live with the guilt of passing it on to the next sucker. ....

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New Holland Connection with Shibaura

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Moulder
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12 Aus
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2007-11-15          148324


Hi Andrew, the SD2003 was released for the Japanese market only and Shibaura, like Kubota, do not and will not support used domestic tractors exported to western countries, by fly-by-nighters, so they wont even supply there distributors/dealers with parts or info.

I believe, if my memory serves, that the New Holland TC24 or TC25 Boomer is the closest US release model to the SD2003, it's not a Ford 1710 which is a lot older and only about 17hp as opposed to yours which is about 23hp in Japanese terms 24 or 25 in US inflated hp.

What is your engine model number?? eg H843, S773 ????

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andrew6704
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 3 Tallahassee, FL
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2007-11-25          148713


The engine model number is H843, also stamped on the block is the number 11300 and N850. ....

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