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Iowafun
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 955 Central Iowa
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2006-07-12          132052


Got my letter yesterday stating my Soc # and other data was on a laptop that was stolen. All because I wanted an advanced degree and took clases. The U liked to use the Soc # as your student ID. I'm not talking that long ago but only 2 years back. So because a government agency is cumbersome and resists change, my good credit is at risk.

Sigh... you'd think with all the news reports on this over the last coupel of years that every agency and business would have worked to remove such information from anyplace that it could be stolen or compromised. The liability implications are huge!

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
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2006-07-12          132064


I find several points with this amazing in the why group.

Why does any goverment agency or company put such info on a lap top? Why is it ever allowed to leave the building? Oh the person is going to work on it at home? If the information is that importnat then they ought to have to be in secure area (building) to do so.

Do you remember when it as I think printed on the SS card that number was not to be used as ID? It use to be. Who changed that?

There really is no shortness of DUMB. Comes in all ages, colors and both male and female.

Iowa, will tell you what is secure, the name of the person who lost the info. See if you can get that!
....

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wingwiper
Join Date: Jun 2004
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2006-07-12          132067


KT

I have a Social Security card that says in the bottom right corner "NOT TO BE USED FOR IDENTIFICATION" and across the top above the numbers in BIG letters it says ACCOUNT NUMBER. It was changed in the mid 70s.
They are NOT allowed to take sensitive material outside the building, nor are they allowed to bring sensitive material home. What you have is people who believe in Hollywood and that NOTHING ever happens to them. They feel that all of the hype and concern is for others, you know the people? Put on your directionals to make a left hand turn and the person who speeds by you is the one who feels "it does not apply to them" It is sloppy work, lazy people and imcompentent leadership. It is NOT the Agency nor is it the Government and as Murf can tell you, in the Marines there was an old saying told to people who enlisted and felt they hated the Corps, it goes "You don't hate the Corps, you can Hate some of the people in it" Same goes in this case, it is the people entrusted with the jobs that are screwing up at everyone else's expense and anyone who can have a mirror held beneath the nose and have the mirror collect moisture, should have the common sense not to do it. To treat these people as if they didn't know and there fore skip severe punishment should not be tolerated, these people need to go to Jail and do some Hard Time. The money that has to be spent to undo their calicous actions or the Lives that the lost info can interupt, far outweighs any pity I have for the person who commited the act that caused the expense of undoing their actions. ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
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2006-07-12          132071


WW,

Amen

....

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ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2006-07-13          132083


You should be very aware that information at most companies flows from secure mainframes to laptops just like water flows out of the tap. Information flow is unlimited and pervasive. I myself carry sensitive data on my laptop. To put people in jail who might have laptops stolen is not reasonable. It happens all the time. I don't know what the answer is. The internet is what let the cat out of the bag. If you want security - then eliminate the internet. ....

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DenisS
Join Date: May 2006
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2006-07-13          132084


If a stolen number can ruin your ability to obtain credit there's obviously something seriously wrong with the whole credit system. How about we eliminate the stupid credit scores as the way to measure the person's credit worthiness? I heard from a guy on the radio - Dave Ramsey - how the lazy creditors only look at the credit scores to establish credit and if you don't have the "right" mix of financial habits, well you don't have good credit. There are some mortgage companies that look at things like your history of mortgage/rent payments and income history to see whether you'll be good for the money they lend you. I think this is a better way to judge credit worthiness. ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
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2006-07-13          132086


ncrunch,

I might have been making it to simple, but when a person takes what they know is confidential info out of a place it is suppose to be restricted to and it gets stolen whether in a laptop, cd, floppy disk or regular paper they hold some of the fault. They should be held accountable.

In the case recently of the VA laptop there is just no sense is such even being where it could happen and yes I deal with confidential info also in my work. You can take steps to protect it. When there are those safeguard and an employee chooses to either ignor them or to just violate them and it places the info in jeopardy sorry, they are responable also. At least I think so.

I have had experience with a very high level former Federal Employee who worked with computer systems and confidential info. It amazed me how little this person knew on system security. It fully make me understand how such as the VA laptop happens. ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
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2006-07-13          132087


DeniS,

I think there is at least one current expert who may chime in on this but a few years ago the method you describe was the way approval was done. The new credut number system to me sure makes less sense.

The way some insurnace companies use it makes little sense. I had a builder that got a poor rating (higher premium) since his business was in his name. That made him a "HIGH RISK TAKER". ....

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wingwiper
Join Date: Jun 2004
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2006-07-13          132088


NCrunch

I do NOT feel anyone has any Legal Right to carry information about me or others, outside of a Secure Building and if your company is doing it, then they are in Violation of the Privacy act.
Where I work we have our File Cabinets Locked, any documents with consumer can not be left on desks and when no longer needed the info has to be Shredded and when offices are left, doors are shut and locked. I do not understand how any company can say they NEED to carry sensitive info on a LAPTOP. How did your company function before Laptops? The Internet is NOT the problem, it is very much apart of the problem, it is people and companies who Justify taking information and carrying it on Laptops. If you can't get the work done at the office, then have a Secure connection to the Office from Home, carrying sensitve info back and forth when there is other Options is NOT an option.
I myself say anyone who openly exposes people's Private information and opens the doors to Privacy violations, does Indeed need to do Jail time and Yes! I do feel it is a very good and appropiate answer to flaggerant disregard to other peoples Privacy.
....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
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2006-07-13          132092


If a company wanted to secure sensitive data it would not be that hard to enforce. The data should be stored in encrypted form on physically secure media. Access to the data is done over a network and transmitted in encrypted form. The laptops should function as data terminals to view the data with no local storage allowed. Like the old days with mainframes and dumb terminals. Many companies IT departments disallow users from having administrator priviledges on company laptops and that's the way it should be in these cases.

Maybe there's a market for laptops with cache drives that get wiped at each power down/power up cycle. ....

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ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2006-07-13          132093


I have all that encryption, etc. I have books of passwords that I have to change every so often. I don't carry personal information about people - but many companies do. Customer lists are one of the richest sources of data for companies - who's main job it is to increase revenue. Data is transferred between people and consultants who sign non-disclosure agreements.

I agree - if anyone maliciously gives information out they should be punished. I just see the flow of information being so rapid and unlimited that you have to separate malicious behavior from accidental loss of data. I am now exploring a job opportunity within my company where I will work from home and all kinds of data will flow into my house. If my house is robbed then my laptop goes with it. Hopefully my hard drive passwords keep my data protected. And hopefully spyware does not see what is on my screen. ....

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ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2006-07-13          132094


Let me add that I pay $600 per year for security per year on my alarm system so its remote chance I will be robbed. Then I have videotaping cameras which monitor outside my house. However, I doubt that most people who work from home have this type of security.

Why all the security? I was robbed once - it will never happen again. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2006-07-13          132095


Wing is right, the information should just not be in circulation, period. At the very least it should not be in circulation in a useable format.

For a very brief period of time while at Quantico I had access to sensitive personnel data as part of my schooling. The data was stored in encrypted files and it took a alpha-numeric password to see it, 3 wrong tries to access it and it erased itself, period. Then you had a lot of explaining to do to answer why an unauthorized user was even *trying* to look at it. A class-mate of mine had this problem, he took a project home to work on over the holidays and a family member got curious. It nearly lost him his place in the class.

In this day & age of technology, there is *ZERO* reason for not having data secured behind several layers of protection.

Here in Canada we have one small victory in this department, the Federal Gov. passed a law a few years back that states nobody has to give their SSN to anybody except the Federal Gov. itself. Not banks, not provincial gov., nobody, they can ask, but if you refuse they can neither insist, or hold it against you.

Best of luck. ....

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JasonR
Join Date: Jan 2006
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2006-07-13          132096


ncrunch

I too was robbed at one point, so my security system is rather extensive.

If you want to save a few dollars on the $600/year (and have a better system) I would recommend installing your own autodialer. If your phone line is a risk for being cut (very common among the better thieves), add a cell-phone to the autodialer - this will insure you get notified the instant someone breaks in - and eliminates the 'monitoring fees' charged by security companies.

Jason ....

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ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2006-07-13          132097


Jason, thanks for the info - I know the fee is expensive. However - the wife is the calling the shots on this and she's in love with this particular company. If it makes her feel secure then it makes my life easier. ....

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Iowafun
Join Date: Jul 2004
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2006-07-13          132101


Wow, many replies so quick! See, the point is this information was not removed from a secure area by someone authorized or unauthorized. The univeristy used your Soc as your id number. So anyone having anything to do with you had access to your soc. This was an assistant prof who was not a full time U employee. So no computer and said perosn had to use their own. The U routinely sent the files to this person and that was how the prof also submitetd grades - by using your Soc as the tracking number.

So yes, the prof's computer got stolen. But in reality, it was the University's system that allowed it to happen.no business or agency should use your Soc as puts them at serious liability. ....

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wingwiper
Join Date: Jun 2004
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2006-07-13          132102


"Customer lists are one of the richest sources of data for companies - who's main job it is to increase revenue."
Their main job may be to increase revenue, but not at the expense of people and their privacy. I could increase revenue by going in the Drug Trade, I don't why? It is illegal and it is illegal under the Provisions of the Privacy Act to jeapordize the security of peoples' sensitive information.
It does not justify the vulnerability of my privacy for the sake of a comapany seeking to increase its own revenue.
Comapnaies should be held accountable and individuals who breech the security of the consumer's sensitive information should be given stiff jail terms.
I am aware there is Profiling happening and that is what the Trojans and Worms are all about. Profiling should be very very illegal, Liberals are so concerned about BIG Brother stealing Civil Rights from them under the Patriot Act and yet where are they all the while Companies are gathering Profiles on them every time a computer is used in a transaction. That should be very illegal and people should be protected from such invasions, mostly when they are so unaware of the info that is being gathered and for the reasons it is being gathered. In realality from the profiling that is happening, exact clones could be made of the person and talk about stolen Identity? I mean Photos are accessable thru the DMV, Heatlth records, military and Marriage status, as well as credit histories, Deeds, Prescriptions, proterty transfers, Bank Balances, stock reports etc etc all easily accessible via the computer.
How many of you are aware that if you are NOT on the Do Not Call List, one only needs to go to Google, type in your complete phone number with the dashes and you will have a map to your house and another option is to get a Satelite image of your house as well. Scared yet? Should be..... ....

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ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2006-07-13          132110


So WW, do you think that George Bush should be arrested for listening in on phone calls? Or do you think there is a difference in that case? That is clearly a violation of privacy.

Should all business owners be arrested for profiling based on the types of customers they see on their mailing list? If profiling is done without a computer is that illegal?

Note: I personally have no problem with George Bush - or customer profiling based on company records. I am just being argumentative - this is, in fact, the pointless and hostile forum. ....

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wingwiper
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2006-07-13          132115


Ncrunch

George Bush is listening in on Phone conversations? When was he doing this?
Do you mean NSA with the Phone Taps? Is that what you meant? do you know how the phone taps work? Do you have caller ID? that is how the phone taps work, certain words trigger the Security computer to monitor (not listen) the tranmission and record the ID info. Once the info is recorded the words that triggered the recording are also recorded, but not in Voice but in Data. Then at the end of the 1/2 hr or hour, which ever the list of all of the violations are anayilized my a another conputer to see if the ID info can be traced to any body with High Risk Criminal intent etc. There is NO VOICE recorded at all and I am sure George Bush doesn't have time to listen to the thousands of conversations that are triggered each day. Are you talking about the 16 Calls made by NON Americans to overseas connections that were known Al Quaida Operatives? If so.. that wasn't done by George Bush either and they were 100% legal and in YOUR very best interest, that falls under National Security. If you aren't talking about these, then I really have no clue what you are referring to and George Bush wasn't even remotely involved in listening, I too am being arguementive.
Profiling as I have referred to is information gathered on you and submitted to comanies who then can take the data and know your buying habits, when you are going to buy, how much you are going to spend, your sizes, your likes, your dislikes etc. Yes! I feel this is illegal and the Worms that get into your Computer, store info on you inside of your own computer and then tranmit the info back to the Host Company.
A Security Agency did an experiment a few years back, using a young lady, When she bought her Birth Control , she was entered into a computer, when she made a ATM withdrawal the info was processed by a computer, when she made Cell or Land calls her info was processed thru computers, when she went home and email her friends, her email was processed thru many computers. Emails are saved for several years. Proof? A few years back a Sailor was busted for bing Gay and the FBI retrieved his emails from AOL. Just a few months some parents of a dead Marine triedto get their sons email from AOL, AOL only released the emails that were sent by the parents to the son.The parents tried to get the emails that their son had written to friends etc. AOL refused to release the emails. Guess they had them tho. Anyways when the esperiment was over the Profile that the Agency was able to tally about the Girl was mind boggling.
Profiling from mailing lists is fine, you can't profile too much from a mailing list. ....

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ncrunch32
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2006-07-13          132119


WW - you are preaching to the choir with me regarding the NSA stuff. I disagree with you on profiling based on customer buying habits if these habits are derived from data (receipts) from that particular company. That is no different from the old grocer down the street putting particular items on display when a certain customer walks by. Its just been taken to higher levels with computers. Itemized receipts and customer lists derived from sales are company property and companies can analyze them any way they want. You can't prevent companies from analyzing their own data.

....

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SG8NUC
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2006-07-13          132122


ncrunch32

I was in washington the other day happened to look in the White House window and there was George on the phone listening. Here is your proof.

LOL ....

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ncrunch32
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2006-07-13          132126


SG8, Ha! Thanks - I needed that tidbit. Let me say that I have nothing but respect for all opinions on this board. AND we need more people like WW, especially in Vermont! ....

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SG8NUC
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2006-07-13          132127


I agree, he is a world of knowledge and a great source of widsom and just a great guy. Not only Vermont but would be welcome here also. ....

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wingwiper
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2006-07-14          132133


I am humble by your responses about me. thank you
Problem in Vermont is that Bernie Sanders when he was Mayor of Burlington Vermont knew he was going to seek higher office and knew he was a Socialist, so he forced a Bill to allow College Students to be able to Vote in Vermont elections. WoW! you are a College student for maybe a semister or two or maybe a Year or three or maybe even four and then you go back to your home state, mean while you voted for the Socailist while you were here and we are here stuck with him. I worked at the polls several years back and he had lost in most every town and then won in Burlington and Middlebury and other college towns. His greed to enter the Senate, I am hoping will be blocked by an outstanding man Rich Tarrant.

anyways thanks
but
NCRUNCH

I am NOT talking about in store data. I am talking about data tranmitted to bigger computers from stores, banks etc and I am talking about mailing lists being sold. Those lists don't just have your address. Profiling goes beyond gathering shopping info. What stops them from taking the NEXT step? nothing. Your Privacy is being played with, maybe it is being played with right now with only GOOD intent, I doubt it, but what is there to stop them from going further? Do they need to know your bank balances? your Credit Histories? I think regardless how Harmless or harmful it currently is, there needs to be some ENFORCEABLE Regulation applied to ensure that it does NOT Blossom into something we all may regret and the possibilities are certainly there and in many cases already being used.
At Tandy we entered Names and addresses of everyone. We knew how many times per year you were coming in etc etc. I am NOT talking about that, I am talking about the Worms that gather whatever info they want on you from your own computer, or the info held on you by companies that are traveling the highways on a Laptop and are being stolen. I was on the VA computer that was stolen, got a letter telling me to monitor my credit etc? WOW! If I saw something it would be too late. We need to safe guard our info about ourselves and not TRUST any outsider with information about us. PERIOD. If you can't trust them with your Naked Wife or daughter, then what makes you think you can trust them with your Information? they are proving to us everyday now, that that informations is NOT secure.
....

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DenisS
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2006-07-14          132141


Here is a simple solution to this so-called problem of identity theft: if you don't want your information tempered with, DON'T GIVE IT OUT!!! Cash is still an acceptable form of tender in the US and nothing is stopping you from paying for your purchases in cash and staying away from credit.

I hear some of you complaining about companies who use your personal information for profit (what a surprise - a company trying to make a profit) and asking the government to come in with more regulations and more power to control those companies. Do you see how you are the ones responsible for the growth of government? Every time you run to the government for help, there's payback in your liberties. It's like asking Godfather for a favor, he'll ask you to return that favor sooner or later.

Don't like your information tempered with? Use cash. ....

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wingwiper
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2006-07-14          132153


Denis

That will not solve the problem. Companies are NOT entitled to make profit at the expense of someones loss in security and privacy. People do NOT have to give up what is theirs for the sake of some companies PROFIT. MY God! what is being implied here? There needs to be limitations on the freedom that companies can take their intrusions into people's personnal information. There needs to be control, for Freedom is only yours until it infringes upon someone else's, then it is NO LONGER FREEDOM but INTRUSION.
I had my information stolen with the Laptop from the VA, I have never bought anything form the VA.
My duaghter has had her infrmation stolen twice, from different college computers. All her information, grades etc as well SSN was taken each time and the colleges notified her to change Credit Cards etc if she had any.
It isn't about paying in cash, denis. Everythime you access a computer that has information about you, that information is vulnerable if not safeguarded. That I think is what the topic started off about.
Gas cards, credit checks, ATM machines, Bank accounts, Store cards, DMV, IRS, Doctors, Hospitals and on and on all store information about you on a computer. It is NOT uncommon to transfer your information over the lines to another computer.
Mailing addresses from magazines, memberships, shopping etc all have more than just your address.
In our excitement to get everything on computer, we have exposed our sensitive information for the whole world to see and do as they wish. I can go to familysearch.org and find info on just about anybody, thru the Mormons none the less. For a fee I can go to ancestry.com and access criminal records, birth records, marriage records, death records etc etc. So without leaving my computer, I can pick just about anybody I care to and I can access tons of information about them and their families including a Satellite Image of where they live and thru Google a detail map of how to get to your front door or back door. Little software is needed and companies are thrilled to sell information.
This is the type of information that needs regulation. We can work with the agencies we already have, we need regulation so while the Congress and Senate are arguing for months about their next move on Abortions, they can be drafting a solution to this major problem. It isn't going to cost more money, it will save money. Thru lack of regulation how much did it cost the taxpayers to send letters to all 2.7 million Veterans about their Info being stolen? how much for the internal investigations etc etc. i might add there was a Class Action Lawsuit pending for $1000 to be sent to each veteran involved, multiply $1000 times 2.7 million, look at what could be saved in this one example alone. Now if there was regulation in place and they were being followed, that Laptop would have never been stolen, the letters never mailed and the internal investigations never would have been needed. end of story. ....

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Peters
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2006-07-14          132157


If you are concerned about information collection have you ever considered the possibilities of GM On-star? GM has you credit information if you signed up for the On-star or did not pay cash for their vehicle. If they can direct an emergency response vehicles to the site of a crash, they can track your every move in the car. You become like the fleet vehicles with satellite tracking. If they can call you and see if you are all right in the car after the crash they can monitor your conversation in the car all the time. The nice thing about it is you don't even need to activate the system to get GM's full service.
What kind of detailed data can GM collect on their customers if they can track you ever move and listen to your chatter in the car? ....

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kwschumm
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2006-07-14          132160


I worked for a company that sold vehicle tracking systems for fleet management and stolen vehicle recovery. Their information gathering was very intrusive. For example they asked for SSN and drivers license numbers for every customer. When asked what they needed the drivers license for they said "because if the cops ask for the drivers license of the vehicle owner we can give it to them". WTF? The cops can always use the VIN to look up the registered owner and if they pull over a stolen car the drivers license of the owner is irrelevent - only the ID of the perp is needed. The company database was useless anyway - if the data didn't match the state's which was more likely to be accurate? They gathered all this information and put it in a database that could be accessed by anyone in the company. The decision of what data to collect was made by MARKETING, as if a bunch of sales people had some sort of expertise in that area. The system operators would comb through the database and track celebrities just for fun. Yeah, like I want to use any sort of a system like that in my car. Here in the peoples republic of Oregon the government is experimenting with vehicle tracking systems to tax drivers on how much they drive. Like road taxes aren't enough. ....

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At risk of ID theft

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Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2006-07-14          132164


What states will do to make the pump price look good. Does it not make sense to just place the tax on the gas? The heavier the vehicle the more wear on the road and the more fuel used? Greater miles equal more money?
I had a lot of discussion concerning the fuel prices in Canada when I first moved to MA. If you calculated the tolls, vehicle tax and price of gas in MA the cost was actually less in Ontario. ....

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At risk of ID theft

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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2006-07-21          132495


As short as 2 years ago my company still had our SS numbers on our checks. Along with that, was, our bank account numbers etc! After many months of bitching my head off. LIKE, " HEY< ! if I am not at work and you mail my check like you always do, what IF IT GETS HIJACKED? Some one not only has my check but they habe my bank and number and SS number!
LOL No more infor but the last 4 digits are on it now! ....

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At risk of ID theft

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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2006-08-03          132935


Gettin back to ID THEFT
We just got a letter fron Sentry insurance company. (We do not have Sentry nor have we ever had that company for insyrance or anything else) They told us that they had a employee that stole information, our (my wifes) info was one of the stolen ID's. They want us to put a fraud alert on her credit reports and to watch it closesly. They said they will pay for any "checks" we need to get to make sure!
What happened 7 years ago,,, My wife had a workers comp claim from her work. She was off for about 2 months. Thats it!!! Sentry handled that claim and never destoyed her info! This world (country) is gunna have probs if we dont start making it madatory for companys to destroy info after a certain amount of time!!! ....

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