JD 4300 hydro PTO slipping: John Deere Review  -- John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum and Review JD 4300 hydro PTO slipping: John Deere Review -- John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum

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 06-14-2004, 08:11 Post: 88461
AnnBrush



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 JD 4300 hydro PTO slipping

This past weekend I was using a PHD when the auger caught on the underside edge of a buried concrete slab. The 2 bolts attaching the auger to the PHD gearbox did not shear (I am not sure if they were supposed to). The auger and engine slowed rapidly and I shut off the PTO - that was the end for that hole (about 3' in clay). On a second 4' hole (also clay) I noticed the PHD was not turning consistantly at about 3.5 - 4' deep but seemed to be "slipping" a bit. There were no unusual sounds from the tractor, the engine RPM were constant at about 1500 and the PTO turns and engages fine afterwards. My question: Is there an internal PTO clutch, and if not can anyone explain the linkage (hydrostatic transmission) that would allow the PTO to "slip" under heavy load. What should I be doing about this (if anything)? I have read the previous posts on PHD and shear pins but they did not address this specific model of tractor. Many thanks for your thoughts / advice.
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Ann Brush






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 06-14-2004, 11:25 Post: 88487
kwschumm



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 JD 4300 hydro PTO slipping

The 4310 technical manual lists two possible causes for a slipping PTO. Either the PTO clutch is damaged or worn or there is insufficient oil pressure to the PTO clutch. The latter can be caused by a leaking shaft seal. Either way, it requires removal of the rear PTO drive shaft and gears to get to it.






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 06-14-2004, 14:02 Post: 88494
jedolson



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 JD 4300 hydro PTO slipping

It seems odd that the PHD pins did not shear...it should have to protect damage to the PTO clutch, clutch basket and/or gears.

Sounds like you may have damaged the PTO clutch/basket. My tech says its a 2 hour job to check for metal and pull the PTO apart to get at the clutch/basket.

You should also check to see what has been installed as shear pins in the PHD...someone may have replaced them with the wrong thing resulting in damage to your PTO






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 06-14-2004, 14:34 Post: 88496
Murf



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 JD 4300 hydro PTO slipping

I think the key to it is in the statement "The 2 bolts attaching the auger to the PHD gearbox did not shear...".

There are two cross-drilled holes between the PHD and the auger bit itself. I do not know why, only ONE bolt is required as a shear bolt. If you put a bolt in both you are effectively doubling the shear strength and defeating the purpose of having it in the first place, namely to protect the rest of the driveline.

Off-hand I'd have to say that it doesn't sound good. A PTO clutch is a pre-loaded mechanical friction type unit. If it is now slipping it is probably because it got overloaded and worn away to the point where it no longer engages. As a matter of course if you have to split the tractor to service it you may as well spring the few extra bucks and replace it.

Hope I'm wrong, but experience says otherwise.

Best of luck.






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 06-14-2004, 15:08 Post: 88500
kwschumm



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 JD 4300 hydro PTO slipping

Murf is trying to scare you. On the 4300 the tractor should not have to be split to get to the PTO clutch.






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 06-14-2004, 15:22 Post: 88506
Billy

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 JD 4300 hydro PTO slipping

"On a second 4' hole (also clay) I noticed the PHD was not turning consistantly at about 3.5 - 4' deep but seemed to be "slipping" a bit"

Could this possibly be your imagination? I've never heard of a PTO clutch pack going bad on a JD.






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 06-14-2004, 17:21 Post: 88514
dsg

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 JD 4300 hydro PTO slipping

On my phd, the shear bolt is in the drive line not where the auger and gear box meet.

David






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 06-15-2004, 08:13 Post: 88552
AnnBrush



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 JD 4300 hydro PTO slipping

A couple of points to clarify. Its a borrowed PHD. The two cross drilled bolts attaching the auger to the PHD gearbox are the only possible shear bolts (none present in the driveline). Yes the PTO seemed to be slipping as evidenced by the inconsistant speed of rotation of the auger at constant engine RPM (PHD auger is turning slowly enough to notice). I opened the JD tech site manuals and inspected drawings of the PTO clutch and brake assemblies. One thing strikes me as odd: If there is a wet clutch (multiple plates in a clutch basket) and it slips under heavy load why is this an indication of a problem / breakage. Is this unit not designed to slip if the load is too great?






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 06-15-2004, 08:40 Post: 88555
Murf



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 JD 4300 hydro PTO slipping

Ken, I'm not trying to 'scare' anyone, I was stating my opinion, I didn't realize we weren't supposed to do that anymore. If there is an access panel to remove that gives you access to the PTO clutch that's great, but I don't recall seeing one on a CUT of any flavour, why would they go to the expense and trouble of giving access to something which is normally never touched for the life of the machine?

Billy, a PTO clutch is a PTO clutch, saying "I've never heard of a PTO clutch pack going bad on a JD." is a rather abstract thing to say. PTO clutches going bad are rare period, not just on a JD. It will happen on ANY machine though, small or large, if you overload the PTO and nothing else lets go first.

Ann, the shear bolts being between the auger and the PHD head is the most common location. The problem seems to be that someone erroneously put TWO bolts in instead of just one. Negating the whole point of having a sacrificial weak spot in the driveline by doubling it's strength.

If the PTO is slipping under moderate load it means only one thing, the clearance between the friction parts has increased, period. The only way clearance can increase is if the adjustment backed off, or the friction plates were worn down. The most likely is wear since it takes surprisingly little to burn them down since they are under a great amount of pre-load.

Yes, they are a 'wet' clutch, and yes, they are designed to break free and slip when the load gets too much, HOWEVER, they are designed to slip rather than something in the transmission breaking instead. Given the choice between replacing gears or a clutch pack I'll take the clutch pack every day.

Best of luck.






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 06-15-2004, 08:56 Post: 88559
kwschumm



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 JD 4300 hydro PTO slipping

Sorry Murf, I worded that poorly. I meant that as a friendly jab and didn't mean to imply that you were intentionally scaring anyone.

According to the JD tech manual the entire PTO section of the JD 4300 is serviced from the rear of the tractor without splitting it.






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