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 10-29-2003, 21:31 Post: 67499
kwschumm



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 Power Beyond and Log Splitters

I need a log splitter and am split (ha ha) between getting a 3-point splitter or a self powered unit. The self powered unit would be more convenient but they cost a lot more. But if I have to add extra hydraulics to the tractor to power the splitter the cost differential converges a bit.

I can't quite wrap my brain around the hydraulics necessary for a 3-point splitter. Am I correct in assuming that it would require a power beyond kit? I already have rear hydraulics for top-n-tilt but I can't see a way to feed a constant flow through those SCVs and the associated diverter valve.






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 10-29-2003, 21:41 Post: 67504
Chief



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 Power Beyond and Log Splitters

Some 3 pt. splitters work of the tractor hydraulics. The link I posted shows a 3 pt. splitter that has its own hyd. pump and runs off the tractor pto. I'm thinking the self powered log splitter is going to be the cheapest in the long run.






Link:   TRAILERABLE 24 TON LOG SPLITTER 

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 10-29-2003, 22:50 Post: 67507
kadorken



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 Power Beyond and Log Splitters

My understanding when I checked with my dealer is you need the Power Beyond kit to provide the continuous flow to log splitters and backhoes.

The power beyond kit is around $333 CDN (not installed - installation looks straight forward however)

I have plans (www.how-to-plans.com) to build a log splitter for 3 pth; unfortunately, this project has progressed only to the point of purchasing the cylinder (on sale) and getting the welder wired up in the shop in preparation of actually building it.






Link:   Log Splitter Plans 

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 10-30-2003, 02:48 Post: 67510
harvey



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 Power Beyond and Log Splitters

Ken it depends on how much and how fast you need to split wood. If you do not have a lot I'd try the remote hyd first. You can always add a motor and pump later if you need to. Then add a v-belt pulley to run a alternator to run lights so you can work in the cool evenings...

Your remote hyd will run a splitter fine but it will be slower going. You have to have a open center valve on your splitter and bungie cord your remote open. It is very important to ensure you have the correct direction of flow thru you splitter valve.

If you go the power beyond route you'll
loose your 3 pt hitch use.

If you go with the pto pump you'll need a tank.

I am currently building a splitter and will use the power beyond system to run it. If I am unhappy with that I'll get a big motor and pump to run it. Splitter will have its own wheels so I can tow it behind loaded trailer/wagon.

I have laid it out so I can go any route I want with it for power.

We need a hyd's section on this board; DENNIS...






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 10-30-2003, 05:25 Post: 67513
kadorken



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 Power Beyond and Log Splitters

Harvey, can you elaborate on 'you'll loose your 3 pt hitch use'.

Do you mean if you install the PB kit, you can no longer attach things to your 3pth?

or you lose the hydraulics controls to the 3pt while the PB kit is operating the log splitter?

The tractor manual just shows the PB kit as an extension off the rockshaft filter line on the right hand side of the 3pt (as a 'loop' of hydraulic hose)






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 10-30-2003, 05:53 Post: 67517
TomG

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 Power Beyond and Log Splitters

A poor man's PB kit might be a splitter with hoses long enough to reach the loader curl circuit connects. The curl valve can be 'bungee corded' open to provide continuous flow. PB connections are better and this idea may not be too reliable for curl valves that have fast dump features. It'd work but you wouldn't want the curl valve in the fast dump position. I do the bungee cord thing on a 3rd valve on my loader valve assembly to run my backhoe. I do the steal the curl valve thing to run my forklift, which takes two rear outlets.

Using the loader curl on most valves would disable the 3ph and likely the loader lift as long as it is held open but releasing the valve would restore function. The connection probably adds a bit to the heat load and there's likely some erosion of valve parts but it does work. If it runs my backhoe fast enough it should run a log splitter. Return oil from the splitter valve returns to the loader valve and then either on to the PB line or to the sump through the TANK line depending on valve type. Relief valve protection is provided by the tractor's or loader valve's relief valve and maybe there's a valve on the splitter as well.






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 10-30-2003, 06:26 Post: 67520
Art White



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 Power Beyond and Log Splitters

Just the thought of running a 30 or 40 horsepower engine to get maybe a useable five to 10 horsepower depending on the tractor seems like a waste to me. Lets see what I remember from past experieces of customers, burned out hydraulic valves on one tractor, a JD2950, went thru two valves and 1800 dollars before he went to an engine splitter. He paid for the splitter with the two valves he wore out. Harvey is right on the loss of the three point hitch if that is how you mount it, or it still could be on a trailer and just run long hoses to the trailer and add your five or ten horsepower engine as you realize you still might like to use your tractor to move something else like maybe the wood while splitting. Did wood in the early seventies when we had the first energy crisis watch a lot of other people start out just like this discussion and they come back to the tow behind. The only downfall to a tow behind I've ever heard is who has it now?






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 10-30-2003, 06:50 Post: 67522
TomG

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 Power Beyond and Log Splitters

With standard PB hookups such as loaders (most loaders also are PB applications) the 3ph won't lift when an auxiliary valve is operated. The same would be true for a splitter. PB flow returns to a manifold block and goes on to the 3ph. PB flow is blocked when a valve is operated.

There are other types of hookups. If the splitter return went directly to the cases the 3ph wouldn't lift until the PB connection was restored. If a single return type valve went back to a manifold block on the 3ph, both the splitter 3ph would operate at the same time but the system would be carrying the combined loads on both. The splitter valve also would have to be PB rated. The meaning of PB beyond is that there is power downstream from a valve and a PB valve has to be designed to withstand operating pressures created by a downstream valve.

I'm with Art I looked at 3ph splitters and decided a standalone would be better, and for me, that was also true for generators, but tractors will run these things.






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 10-30-2003, 07:55 Post: 67525
Murf

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 Power Beyond and Log Splitters

I have seen several machines that had a more workable, permanent way of getting hydraulic power from the loader but not from it's valve.

They had installed a T fitting in both the pressure line and return line and connected a female quick disconnect fitting to that. This way you use the pressure supply for the loader without actually going through the loader valve.

It's very unlikely that you would ever need to use both the loader function and splitter at the same time so the power loss was moot.

The other nifty trick I saw was a guy who had made up a bracket for the loader bucket, the splitter was mounted to a sort of tabletop attached to this hinged bracket and travelled in the bucket upside down, for operation it was flipped over and out by the hinges the bucket. This system had several advantages according to the owner, the bucket mounting provided height adjustment for comfortable working and easy access since it was out in front & not snuggled up to the back of the machine, plus it left the rear area clear to hitch up to a wagon, the work table meant blocks could be manipulated easily for resplitting without having to keep picking them up, it also left room for stacking several blocks at a time next to the splitter.

He claimed it had been used well for several years without any problems.

Best of luck.






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 10-30-2003, 08:10 Post: 67526
Chief



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 Power Beyond and Log Splitters

I may not be thinking things all the way through and figuring all the costs, but I just don't see how you can come out with less money spent than with a stand alone engine driven log splitter. We went through this discussion on 3 pt. vs stand alone generators.

For around $1,000 you could have one sitting in your driveway ready to run. I have had mine for about 10 years and it still works great. When you figure cost of components for a 3 pt. splitter, wear and tear & hours on the tractor and hyd. valves (if used); I think you would be asking for more trouble than it is worth.

Now, I can see where perhaps a pto driven 3 pt. splitter might make some sense, but still all those hours on your tractor cost money. I bet I must have around 300 hours or more on my splitter. No way I would want all those hours on my 4410. 300 hours on a $20,000 tractor have to account for something.

Anyhow ...... some like choclate.......some like vanilla. Don't guess there is any right or wrong way. Just what works best for you.






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