Engine RPM Using Lift: John Deere Review  -- John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum and Review Engine RPM Using Lift: John Deere Review -- John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum

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 08-30-2006, 12:11 Post: 133810
runslikeadeere



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 Engine RPM Using Lift

I own a JD 790 and have a question that I have not seen addressed in the owner's manual. I have noticed when using the lift to raise a heavy implement the engine lugs down some when running at idle. Should one routinely increase the throttle above idle RPM when operating the lift? Thanks for the help!






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 08-30-2006, 12:49 Post: 133812
DRankin



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 Engine RPM Using Lift

"Should one routinely increase the throttle above idle RPM when operating the lift?"

Absolutely. Your tractor is telling you what it needs and you are listening.....

Low idle should be used for just that.... idle, as in doing nothing.






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 08-30-2006, 14:46 Post: 133819
earthwrks

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 Engine RPM Using Lift

Both my CUT and skid steer recommend running the engine at or near full throttle all the time. There is no need to run anything in these categories at idle unless they are sitting still and are cooilng down the turbo (but who does that? Laughing out loud)--it lugs the engine and increases load on the hydraulic pump. And in some cases with hydrostatic drives can damage the pump(s) since they require pressure inside the pump against the swash plate.






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 08-30-2006, 21:04 Post: 133833
beagle

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 Engine RPM Using Lift

We run at about 80% full rpm for everthing but mowing work. At 75-80% rated rpm, you are running at the optimum torque rating of the engine. RPM's over that point increase power, but reduce torque because the efficiency of the engine drops off.

Never run the hydraulics at idle, or move the tractor if it's a hydrostat. The back pressure on the hydrostat sytem can cause damage similar to trying to push the tractor (or tow) against the system.






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 08-30-2006, 21:51 Post: 133835
earthwrks

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 Engine RPM Using Lift

Beagle I take it all your equipment is gear-drive versus hydrostatic?

From my exp. and my particular applications of a CUT and SSL the engine torque doesn't come into play as much as HP i.e., power curves vs. wheel torque (this excludes the 3 speed ranges of the CUT, and the 2 speed ranges of the SSL). For grins-and-giggles my SSL has a 78 HP turbo, 3 cyl. engine putting out something like 120 lb-ft of torque. But at the wheels it is capable of an outstanding and mind-blowing 6,300 lb-ft of torque! Also, I have a 40' Grove telescoping, self-propelled (hydrostatic), manlift/work platform that weighs 8,200 lb. empty. But it's powered by a 24HP Kohler gas engine!






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 08-31-2006, 05:55 Post: 133839
wingwiper



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 Engine RPM Using Lift

EW

Am I wrong to say that Diesel Engines put out their HP and Torque at LOW RPMs and the curve remains pretty flat for several hundred RPMS, but to get the Hydralic pump to work and move more fluid you need to increase RPMs.






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 08-31-2006, 07:18 Post: 133842
greg_g



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 Engine RPM Using Lift

Diesel engines develop torque early on the power curve, but HP continues to develop. My KAMA for example develops max torque at ~1700 rpm, but doesn't develop the full 45hp till ~2300. It will continue to rev until the governed ~2650, but that's basically to gain ground speed only. HP actually trails off after 2300. That max HP point on the power curve is generally coincident with the engine revs required to produce working PTO rpms.

I suppose some credence could be given to the theory that you could operate the hydraulics down at the rated max torque RPM. But since the design engineers consider PTO speed to be where the engine is working most efficiently, I consider that to be a practical speed at which to run loaded hydraulics as well.

//greg//






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 08-31-2006, 07:20 Post: 133843
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 Engine RPM Using Lift

No, even the CUT is a hydro. 2100 rpm supplies plenty of fluid and pressure in the hydrostat. The tracor has no problem telling you if you aren't giving it enough. I use the hydro whine to let me know if I need a lower gear range or more rpms.

For the engine, I like to run at the peak of the performance curve, which is around 80% when doing heavy work, with the dozer or the CUT. The dozer is also hydrostat (D4B), as are most of them anymore.

When mowing with the CUT, I run the rpm's up to get the performance out of the mower decks.

Right/wrong/or indifferent, that's the way we've done it for years, and seems to work pretty well for us with the diesel equipment. With a gas engine, let it fly!!!!






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 08-31-2006, 07:29 Post: 133844
earthwrks

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 Engine RPM Using Lift

wing: "Am I wrong to say that Diesel Engines put out their HP and Torque at LOW RPMs"

>>>>>That's a loaded question, no pun intended. Doesn't it depend on the application? My dad had a Miller portable welder that sounded like an old hit-and-miss that it ran so slowly. The older diesels of yore I recall even the Dodge Cummins weren't designed for high RPM otherwise they'd blow apart. My '03 Cummins spins much faster it's early kin. Back to applications: on a skid steer the high RPM is where the engine has been designed to be married to the hydro and offer the best performance, particularly for low-vehicle-speed wheel torque.

"... and the curve remains pretty flat for several hundred RPMS, but to get the Hydralic pump to work and move more fluid you need to increase RPMs."

>>>>>>>>>>>Again this a loaded question. Application is all-important. If I take my either my CUT os SSL and run the engines at say half-RPM I can get locomotion out of them, but not necessarily the speed I'm needing. Now try pushing or pulling something I can do it but it takes longer (I like getting things done quickly, get paid, move on to something else). The SSL when run at half-RPM will pick up just a little less than when run at full RPM. However, drop the RPM to just above idle the action is noisey (hydraulically speaking) and a bit jerky, and I can't lift as much, but that's probably due to the pump's inefficentcy.






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 08-31-2006, 08:17 Post: 133846
wingwiper



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 Engine RPM Using Lift

EW

Good answers, I was a bit vague in my post.
I meant that Diesel Engines have a Low Troque point and their HP point is also way lower than a Gas. Cummins have peak HP at about 28 or 2900 RPM and their Torque is at 1600. Many Gas Engines will hit their peak HP in the 5000 RPM range. I really didn't mean the Torque and the HP were peaked at the same point. You made good examples.
I run my 4115 with the BH at about 2000 to 2200 and have noticed that past a certain point I don't seem to gain a thing in BH performance, that BIG rock was lifted to X numbr of feet and when I add more RPMs, it stays at the same level.
I am NEW to Hydralics and am trying to understand what I know about Diesels and don't know about Hydralics. I do not want to over work my CUT but I want to make it do what it can with as less abuse as possible.






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