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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > Ford Pickup Trucks Forum

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 12-15-2003, 20:26 Post: 71275
Chief



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 Ford Motor pushes hard for 6-cylinder diesel for F-150

This is a VERY interesting article. Looks like bad blood between Ford and International Engine. Can't say as I blame them.






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 12-16-2003, 06:06 Post: 71294
Art White



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 Ford Motor pushes hard for 6-cylinder diesel for F-150

Cummins builds a four cylinder version of the 5.9 and I often thought that might make a good engine with a turbo and a little work for a pick-up.






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 12-16-2003, 08:10 Post: 71309
Chief



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 Ford Motor pushes hard for 6-cylinder diesel for F-150

Detroit Diesel makes a V6 diesel in the size range Ford needs but I think Daimler/Chrysler has Ford over a barrel as they recently purchased Detroit diesel and have indicated to Cummins that they did like the idea of Cummins providing an engine to a direct comptetitor. All that leaves Ford is Yanmar, Steyr, MAN, and Caterpillar. I think the Cat 3126B would be a good choice for Ford. This is Ford's own fault as they have stuck with International which has produced marjinal to poor engines for them.






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 12-16-2003, 08:41 Post: 71316
Murf

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 Ford Motor pushes hard for 6-cylinder diesel for F-150

I would think the Mercedes-Benz MBE900 series motor would be a better choice all round, it is a proven performer in that class of vehicles in Europe and elsewhere.

It is available in 4 & 6 cylinder versions with a hp. range of 155 to 300 ponies and gobs of torque. These are fully electronically controlled engines which already exceed the next generation (LEV) smog laws. Frieghtliner is already running them VERY successfully in their lighter trucks here in North America, now theat Frieghtshaker has the MB trucks under their name badge it wont be long before you see a LOT of them wearing UPS, Fedex & Purolator signs. They are designed (and advertised) as being 500,000 MBO (miles before overhaul) motors, with a 15,000 to 20,000 mile oil change interval.

Coupled with MB's own superb tranny or an Allison they would be a tough competitor, especially in commuter, commercial service and Farm/Ranch market.

Best of luck.






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 12-16-2003, 08:48 Post: 71319
Chief



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 Ford Motor pushes hard for 6-cylinder diesel for F-150

I agree with you there Murf, and that was one of the first engines that comes to mind but hell will freeze over before Daimler/Chrysler sells them to Ford. I like the other possible option that article mentions......the John Deere engines. They are among the best out there and have a reliability record like Yanmar and Kubota. John Deere has been dabbling with Ford about a pickup truck. Sometimes I wonder what the folks at Ford think with. They take a great looking truck that has the feature most buyer want and then put a crap engine in it.






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 12-16-2003, 09:08 Post: 71324
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 Ford Motor pushes hard for 6-cylinder diesel for F-150

Ford seems to want to create some sort of unholy alliance between themselves, consumers and the environmental wackos. Thus never really satisfying anyone.






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 12-16-2003, 09:30 Post: 71330
Murf

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 Ford Motor pushes hard for 6-cylinder diesel for F-150

Chief, I think you might get a surprise, hell might freeze over, Laughing out loud.

Don't forget, Cummins already sells motors to Navistar for it's trucks and buses and has for a long time. Likewise, Navistar buys MB engines for it's trucks too.

The other mystery players in this situation are Nissan, and Mazda, both of whom already have a VERY cosy relationship with Ford, and produce EXCELLENT small diesels. Toyota also has expressed a desire to cuddle up to Ford after their ill-fated relationship with GM died.

Best of luck.






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 12-16-2003, 09:48 Post: 71333
Chief



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 Ford Motor pushes hard for 6-cylinder diesel for F-150

Cummins already sells their diesels to Ford but only for use in the up end F Series trucks like the F-700. Dodge already has an instant replacement for Cummins in the MBE 900 series engines and has considered doing so a few times up until it was apparent that many of Dodges customers would go to Ford if they did so. If DC puts their foot down with Cummins; they buy too many engines from them to let them go. As I said, Ford has brought this all on themselves. Ford customers have been screaming for a Cummins or Cat diesel for decades and Ford will not listen. I do like the MBE 900 Series engine, up to 300 hp & 860 t./lbs. torque at 1400 rpm! They also come with a 4 valve head in which 3 valves are intake and exhaust; the fourth valve is an integral engine compression brake. All round I think a better designed engine but the Cummins is a good engine too. I would not feel bad owning either one. The John Deere engines would be a neat choice too!






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 12-16-2003, 10:25 Post: 71340
Murf

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 Ford Motor pushes hard for 6-cylinder diesel for F-150

Chief, JD builds a tremendous engine, absolutely no question. The problem is nobody is going to be the first to try one 'over the highway', the potential costs would be too high if it didn't work and one principle condidtion in EVERY motor purchase agreement is liablility.

If the part fails the SUPPLIER is on the hook to make nice to the end purchasers through the manufacturer. Period. JD could not afford that kind of experiment financially. They have in the past tried to break into the 'big truck' market, but Cat, Cummins and Detroit have that all sewn up.

As you said Cummins and DC are tied at the waist, but cannot get rid of the Cummins in the ram without a customer rebellion.

If on the other hand, they ease the MB motors into acceptance with the competition, then they can have the best of both worlds.

Think about it, DC through it's MBE division makes a profit on every Ford sold, sweet deal if you can do it.

Best of luck.






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 12-16-2003, 10:38 Post: 71345
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 Ford Motor pushes hard for 6-cylinder diesel for F-150

Just a side note on this discussion. Deere was a component in the design of the Duramax for GM. I am not sure if they are supplying components.
I would not be suprised if GM has tied them up legally for the time being.






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