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mathey
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2003-07-24          60019




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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2003-07-24          60026


As someone who has just posted an ad I find that a little distressing.

Dennis, are there only a handful of people who can see my ad? Or is this one of those hidden glitches in the system? ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2003-07-24          60029


I echo what Mark is bringing up. I hate to see the forum loose members too.

mathey, the "other" tractor site is prone to some very questionable and arbitrary censorship. Hope you will reconsider and stay with us. ....

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Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999
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2003-07-24          60033


Yeah Chief, me and cowboydoc got into it the other day. He posted to a reply and mention something about e-pto on a JD. I replied to him about it and jokingly called him Little Richard (his name is Richard). He got all pissy and sent me a PM and said he didn't respond to name calling. He deleted my message and his too. All I can say is, it's a tuff world ;)

Dennis, Viewing ads should be 'FREE'. Posting one is a different story. ....

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Chief
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2003-07-24          60043


goodbye_too!, at least Dennis allows us the ability to express ourselves without censorship. He has deleted one entire post that I know of because it got WAY out of hand. On the "other" tractor board, I promise you, it is a matter of time before you will get censored or the "speech & thought police" send you a PM. Both boards have GREAT information and a LOT of experience to draw from. I am sure Dennis will make changes as the board develops and gets more sponsors. Hope you will reconsider as well. ....

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Jelliott
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2003-07-25          60103


This thread contains several references to the 'other board'. Can someone post the URL so I can check it out? ....

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Chief
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2003-07-25          60107


We're not allowed to post the URL. But I will give it a try. It is nowhere as good or entertaining as this one! ;-) Yep, I was right! Not allowed to post it. I tried! PM me and I can send it to you.
....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2003-07-25          60127


Hmm, thats news to me, I never realized that the ads weren't visible to all and sundry....

Of course it took me about 4 seconds to decide that this board is worth more than $20 a year to me ....

Let's see, $20 would be about the same as:

- 20 minutes shop time for my 'Bota,
- 15 minutes shop time for any of my vehicles,
- 20% of a nice dinner out with my good lady,
- one months vetinarian bills,
- one weeks pet food bills,
- one box of beer.


Now after all this thinking of trivial expenses I've forgotten, what was the big deal about again....

Oh yeah, now I remember, some people seem to want everything for NOTHING.

Pay your own way in life, this is Tractor Point, NOT the communist agricultural information dissemination bureau......

Best of luck, you'll need it with an attitude like that. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2003-07-25          60128


Pardon me but I have one small follow up to my last rant, and yes as a matter of fact I do feel better.

I just noticed that our 'sqeeky wheel' friend who started this thread seems to be associated with a very well thought of educational institution.

I find it curious that someone with exposure to that level of intelligent people can't figure out for himself that Dennis is not a charity and needs to receive a little something to HELP him cover the some of the expenses that come out of HIS pocket every month so that we can have this great forum in which to exchange ideas and opinions.

Thank you all for your indulgence, and thank you Dennis for all your hard work, it IS appreciated, at least by SOME of us anyway.

Somebody email him one of those beers from the other thread.

Best of luck. ....

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Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999
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2003-07-25          60129


Murf...Murf, now chill out. It's not that bad.

I think the point is this...

If someone is just passing through, searching the want-ads, they should be able to read them for free. After all, this would only make this forum/site better. After all, the more traffic you get, the 'more' members you get.

Now if you're just passing through and wanting some free advertisement, that's a different story.

Come on guys, don't you all agree? ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
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2003-07-25          60130


I think anyone should be able to read and respond to the classified ads. When paying members post the ads they should get the widest exposure possible. I would bet this was not an intentional omission on Dennis' part, but an unintended consequence of implementing the paying member model.

IMHO, new members should get maybe a 30 day full access trial period, then have to become paying members to post any messages. Members and non-members alike should be able to read messages without limitation. I think the obstructions placed in the way of non-paying members when trying to read posts do little to encourage them to subscribe - it seems to me it's more of a punishment for not subscribing. I place higher value on being able to ASK questions than I do on reading through lots of threads that may not apply. Charge for the value, not for the experience.

TractorPoint is well worth $20/year to me, and I think it would be worth that to most people IF the other board didn't exist. My impression is that TractorPoint has been losing membership because the other board is still free. It would be difficult to increase ad revenues without a large membership base. Dennis is in a hard position. Maybe he could offer free membership to employees of Tractor manufacturers and dealers - perhaps a large, experienced and trained membership base would attract LOTS of new users.

Dennis, what you do IS very much appreciated at least by the paying members here.
....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2003-07-25          60133


Friends, if my posts were offensive to anyone, especially "mathey", I apologize most sincerely, I meant to be strong in my making a point, not offensive.

Billy, you make a very good point, as always.

Best of luck. ....

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Billy
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2003-07-26          60146


No offense taken here, my friend. ....

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Lt. Censor
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2003-07-26          60153


Gee, Chief, do you EVER stop whining? ....

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Lt. Censor
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2003-07-26          60154


Whiner said: Very questionable and arbitrary censorship.

No it's not. It's a judgement issue. Apparently, you are not mature enough to handle it. ....

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Misenplace
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2003-07-26          60163


It sounds pretty arbitray to me me. Thats why most of us are here on a R E A L tractor forum :) HAY MURF !! didn't you know PMS is contagious or did you just jostle the melon a bit watching that sports bra bounce up and down ???? lol ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
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2003-07-26          60167


It seems pretty arbitrary to me as well. What one guy lets slide the next guy censors. For example, sometimes 'BS' is censored, sometimes it's not. If that's not arbitrary we're working off of different dictionaries.
....

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Chief
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2003-07-26          60170


Lt. Censor, first off welcome to the board. Second, if you want to make unfounded remarks and accusations here; register like the rest of us so we can see who you really are. No whinning hear Lt. just fact. In fact you sound like a few wet behind the ears, knee knockin' nervous, crap your pants at the first bark of the 50 Lt's. I had the misfortune of having to tolerate and try to teach common sense while I was on active duty. I suppose you don't have the courage & integrity to say what your handle is on the "other" tractor board. I think I have a good idea who. Knowledge of judgement requires courage and integrity which you apparently have none of, and that throws maturity right out the window for you. Thirdly, Dennis, I apologize for publishing my revulsion of this spinless little troll. I will ignore him from this point on. Have a real nice day Lt. Censor! ;-) ....

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Lt. Censor
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2003-07-27          60183


On a site that receives hundreds of posts a day, it's impossible for moderators to read them all. Does every speeder get a ticket? No, just where the police are watching. Apparently, this obvious fact was a bit too complicated for some people to grasp. They'd rather whine about censorship. As proof, they're still whining about it! ....

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kwschumm
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2003-07-27          60203


That doesn't seem right. I read all the posts and I'm not a moderator - and there are, what, six or more moderators? I'm sure they all get read.

....

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harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
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2003-07-28          60272


Wasn't gonna add my 2 cents but will... Moderators do not have to read every post. They have software that flags certian words or phrases how ever you want.

They can also prevent any flagged material from being viewed until they review it.

Censorship is alive and well especially with newer software and the people willing to use it.

I ever use it in my writing software for grammar and spelling and spaces and.... ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2003-07-28          60293


Doc, it wasn't the PMS that was contageous, it was just the fear of catching the "The world OWES me EVERYTHING for NOTHING!" disease that some people seem to afflicted with.

I thought a little antidote was in order, strictly for medicinal purposes of course.

Of course having a Poker Run in my 'backyard' when my boat is 1700 miles away didn't help.

Life goes on.....

Best of luck. ....

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Misenplace
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2003-07-28          60308


Murf, I hear ya. Regrettably it is the "norm" here. You know every one owes me, I'm special. Me first, etc. Every time I travel to Canada and come back I need a few days to re-aclimate to the unpleasant reality of life here. If it were not for gun control and socialized medicine I'd think you guys had the best thing going. In point of fact you just might any how, certainy with regards to the general mentality and being kind , curteous and treating your neighbors like, well neighbors you got us beat. ....

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Chief
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2003-07-28          60322


Murf, you pretty well have the American mentality down pat for most but not all Americans. Sadly, most by a long shot are "hurray me and piss on you, get out of my way, I am more important than you" idiots. ....

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AC5ZO
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2003-07-28          60323


You guys are sounding pretty cynical. There are plenty of good people about if you look the right places and you can find "me before the rest" people in any country where I have ever been.

Because of the ham radio, I do a lot of emergency communications and help with various public events and disaster relief. Members in my local groups pull several lost hikers off of the mountians every week. I don't see a lot of people there that belong to the "me first" crowd.

There are plenty of people with an "attitude" around, but life is too short to let them get to you.

Chief, there was just a big storm west of you in Memphis. I know quite a few people there that helped out with emergency medicine and disaster relief. When this is the side of the US that you see, you know that there is hope for the rest. But, you are not going to see this at most public places or events catering to the lowest common denominator. ....

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Misenplace
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2003-07-28          60324


It really is sad that is the mentality here. I mean in the suburban/city areas. The mentality a few miles north once you hit the country side is considerably different. I think you would have to actually drive over the bridge from Detroit to Windsor to actually see the difference in cultural mentality. Detroit has several hundred murders a month. Windsor might have 2 annually. It is cleaner, safer and generally more pleasant. I remember the first time we wound up in California, sort of by mistake due to a airline strike in mid vacation. Determined to make the best of it we decided to see LA for a few days and then spent a few days in SanFrancisco. I guess I thought people might be gruff there,
heck by our standards it was amazingly pleasant, even the cabbies were friendly. Now the van Drivers in the Bahamas are a trip. You never have a chance to say much as you are closeing your eyes and holding on. ....

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kwschumm
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2003-07-28          60325


When I lived in big cities I felt this way about people, but since I moved to the boonies I've changed my mind. Most people in small town America are really good souls. We have one neighbor who is something of a self-centered inconsiderate boob, but for each one of him I've met dozens of good hearts in our area. I ordered my tractor on a handshake and didn't sign a thing or leave a deposit until two days AFTER I took delivery (the delivery guy forgot the paperwork and delivered the tractor anyway).

....

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Chief
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2003-07-28          60327


That is why I said most but not all. There is good and bad in nearly all things and people. Just seems like lately attitudes have taken on a whole new meaning of lowest common denominator. ....

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Misenplace
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2003-07-28          60332


Kinda like some days when you go out for a drive and run into every bad driver in the state. It makes you glad just to be back home to start another day. ....

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AC5ZO
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2003-07-29          60370


I have done some projects with Ford and another company around Southfield. I also did a project with a guy at Wayne State U. I have spent some considerable time in your backyard and I would not want to live in any of those areas. But, it is tolerable when you are just visiting.

I spent a number of years in Southern California and after a while, it lost its lustre. Crowding, crime, traffic, and attitude can grate on you. That is why my wife and I decided to move to New Mexico in 1998. But, I do understand.

My only recommendation is to do what you can to stay sane and healthy. For me it took getting out. It is not easy to leave good friends, but they were glad that I made it to a better place. It is not funny, but now they are stuck with a Governor that will probably be recalled, a fiscal crisis in the state, and gun laws that are about as severe as any. ....

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Misenplace
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2003-07-29          60372


I REALLY diss like it here. This is where my wifes practice is. We have talked many times about moveing for a better quality of life. It is really hard to think about makeing 2/3 less elsewhere but even at that there has been a lot of talk about it. We try to keep our sanity by going to the woods at least every other weekend. There was a recent article here about many folks moveing to Canada. Southfield is actually where my wife grew up. I am from a small town. It is not the most pleasant thing to actually not be able to say nice things about the people and place you live. I guess the thought process is that if we play our cards right we will have enough to retire sooner to someplace nicer and more pleasant. ....

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Chief
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2003-07-29          60375


AC5ZO, looks like the peace and quiet out your way may be in question. The Texas state Democrat senators high tailed it across the border to New Mexico yesterday and are hold up in a posh hotel pissing away the tax payer's dollars over redistricting. ....

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Murf
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2003-07-29          60382


Doc, AC, that is exactly what I was talking about, it is the relative small (thankfully) minority of the population that can quickly frustrate you and give the wrong impression about the silent, unseen majority.

It struck home recently when a friend & his wife were up for a visit and dinner, they live right downtown Toronto, argueably the best 'big' city in North America to live in. Recently a 9 year old little girl went missing not to far from them, his wife being a pediatrician, and with kids of thier own, they decided to help with the search when the call went out on the radio & tv that one was being organized.

During their visit I got a call that a dog was missing, a Golden Retriever that belonged to a little girl nearby, I know her because I am a Shriner and we are treating her in outr hospital in Erie, PA, and I am (was) one of the volunteer drivers that take her back and forth for treatment. Without hesitation I said I would saddle horses and join in, my friend jumped at the chance to help and get some 'saddle time', plus a chance at some senery normally missed, back along the river.

What absolutely astounded him was that in a rural area, the population of the whole township is only 20,000 people, over 100 people showed up to find a dog, albiet a well known, crippled little girl's pet, but a DOG, when only 75 people showed up to search for a missing CHILD, and that out of a population 'down there' of some 2.5 million people.

The saddest part was, and I hope not because of the lack of trying on behalf of the people thatwere looking, the little girl was found murdered and dismembered on the city's waterfront a few days later.

The dog was found, just fine, happily playing in the river, chasing frogs and wood ducks, doing what Goldens do best, happily amusing themselves...

Best of luck. ....

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AC5ZO
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2003-07-29          60386


Chief, those "public servants" are just about a mile south of my office. The Lt. Gov. of NM has welcomed them to our state as if abdicating their responsibility to TX was the right thing to do.

In 2001, I wrote a law and lobbied it through the NM legislature and I cannot say that I was impressed with the "wheels of government," but at least the legislators stayed around. But, when I see legislators from TX and the governor from California, I guess things aren't bad.

Murf, I have been to Toronto several times on business and I thought that it was about as good as a city gets. To me a city is really the place I want to drive to when I need provisions. You probably won't hear about the legislative circus going on here, but what is happening is that most of the Democrats in the TX legislature have left the state and have come to NM so that they don't have to deal with a special legislative session there. If they stay away for 30 days, the session will expire and no government business can be voted on. When you talk about the few that cause the problems, here is a minority group of legislators that can keep the majority from operating because a 2/3 quorum has to be present to conduct business. If they were in TX, the Governor could send the TX rangers to get them, but when they leave the state, they stop the proceedings. ....

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botics
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2003-07-29          60388


I agree the classified should be viewable by all. But I do know that it takes a lot of money to keep a site like this going.

Besides do we all really care what you think of him or me or whoever. I am blessed to live in the USA and I hope you all realize that you are too. Freedom of speech and language...

Let him go I have tractor info to research. ....

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Misenplace
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2003-07-29          60393


Botics, I agree. I practice catch and release. Throw the small ones back. Hows that new machine working out ? Murf, good grief what can you say about a situation like that. ACZ, you better make that 6 oz of scotch and I cant stand the stuff. My wife however will drink it and drambuie till the cows come home. It just seems like weve been infested with a little antagonistic virus this week. GOD Grant me the serenity to accept the things I can not change...ommmmmmm ommmmmmmm ommmmmm ....

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Murf
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2003-07-29          60398


Actually, a couple of messages got interwined there I was actually replying to Doc' message (# 60372) ahead of Chief's comment on the public servants (serving who?) running away.

But I did hear about it, we have a slightly different version of the same thing up here. Since Canada's different territories are not what Americans call 'soveriegn' the laws of one are enforceable acroos the map. Not to say that if you are in Ontario you could be charged with violating a law in say Quebec. In fact there are some major discrepancies in laws between provinces. However, a judgement or authority in one province is recognized anywhere else in the country.

Legally the 'chain of command' for civil authority actually goes like this, in decending rank, Queen, Governor General (the Queen's representative in Canada), Lieutenant General (the Queen's representative to each province or territory), Prime Minister (our 'president'), Premier (our 'Governor').

The result is like this, if a legislator (or many of them) failed to show for an important session, the Prime Minister, or Premier as the case may be, merely asks the Governer General, or Lieutenant General, to issue a writ. This is basically a legal proclamation, which is a summons to appear issued in the name of Her Majesty the Queen in the right of Canada. Failure to obey is NOT an option. While the charges are less than serious in legal terms, basically a police officer gives them a ride to work, wink, wink, it can result in a finding of 'contempt' which is grounds for instant removal from office, and gives the Queen's representative the right to name a replacement on the spot, without any further public input.

Consequently, not showing up here would have the opposite effect, it could lead to the REMOVAL of the opposition.

Here they use a political stalling tactic called 'filibuster', basically they raise every point of order, make every motion, and take every 'pee' break possible in hopes of delaying to the point where the current session expires and anything not past is lost.

Either way, somebody stated it best, 'pissing away tax-payers money'.

Best of luck.

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AC5ZO
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2003-07-29          60401


They practice the fillibuster in the US and state legislatures here too. More recently, however, they don't really have to fillibuster, they only seem to have to threaten to do so and the majority caves in. Go figure! ....

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Misenplace
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2003-07-29          60406


Politicians, theres something every one agrees on ..I think. What a waste of good air. ....

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2700 NorthWest NJ
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2003-07-30          60454


Currently, everyone even non members can read all ad "Subject" listings. But only Premium members can read the detail information of the ad and get contact information.

I will be modifying this as follows:

All ads placed by premium members will be viewable by anyone who comes to the site including details and contact info, ads placed by non premium members will only have subject viewable by all, and details viewable only by premium members.

Premium members will be able to choose one of the pix in their album to include in their ad.

I will also see if I can list Premium member ads first.

Dennis
TractorPoint ....

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kwschumm
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2003-07-30          60456


Dennis, that sounds like a very fair way to deal with it!
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Misenplace
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2003-07-30          60465


How can you go wrong with a forum that actually listens to members and acts on their input. ....

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