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ETHER---YES --OR--NO

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skipll
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 184 Robbisville NC USA
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2011-03-22          177516


Have a question concerning using ether to start a diesel engine.

The fellow I bought my backhoe from said to never use it on this engine----Yanmar (ceca 1995--25 hp).


I do know the in the past--- it was always used on big rigs---but I'm not talking big Riggs here---

Talking bout smaller & newer stuff here---

As I live in kinda a old timey place some also say that a engine can become addicted to ether---TRUE OR False?

So should I use ether to help me start my Yannmar 25 HP diesel engine on my bachoe ? ( & is it addictive ?)


BTW---I've only been a member on this site for maybee 1 mo.---asked 3 questions---got replies in 24 hrs. Outstanding group you are :)

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harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1539 Moravia, NY
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2011-03-22          177517


I use a litte bur of ether now and then. Make sure you do not have glow plugs in the intake. Ignition there would not be good.

Never use a large amount or you will lock it up also it dries cylinder walls. WD40 is a better alternative.

Old more worn enginges may need help starting.

Nope engines do not become addicts. ....

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2011-03-22          177520


It's my philosophy that a well maintained engine shouldn't need starting fluid in the first place. A recurring need for starting fluid indicates a problem that needs to be fixed. I've on rare occasions used starting fluid VERY sparingly just to get the engine running for the purposes of determining and remedying the hard starting condition.

Arbitrary use may not be addictive to the engine, but it can be for the operator. That is, one can get addicted to the idea that it's easier to spray it in the engine than it is to find/fix the actual starting problem. Plus - incorrect applications of starting fluid can result in damaged or destroyed engines when cylinders try to detonate out of sequence.

//greg// ....

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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
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2011-03-23          177523


In different words, you CAN use ether but you should not have to, and it's potentially dangerous. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2011-03-23          177538


Using WD40 I have hunch is not so much the oil itself but the propellant. ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
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2011-03-23          177540


Are you having a problem with out using a starting fluid? I have a Kubota about same size and age and it wants the glow plugs used is the engine is cold or it takes a long crank to start up. Never used any starting fluid on the three diesels I have. Now years back 25 plus worked for heavy equipment manufacture and we used starting fluid on certain brands often. Again that was 25 years ago and much larger engines. No built in starting aid. ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2011-03-23          177546


I have a circa 2003 24 HP Yanmar in my Deere 4115.

My owners manual adresses cold weather starting only to the extent that a coolant heater is recommended. There is no mention of starting fluid one way or another.

That said..... I have started this tractor at -10F and at +108F and it has never cranked more than 2 or 3 seconds and never failed to start on it's own. ....

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skipll
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 184 Robbisville NC USA
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2011-03-23          177549


All good info here----Sooooo--
Now if I have to start my backhoe when it is really cold I shall put a portable heater in front of the engine.
In the past I did that with my old ( carbureted ) Honda ATV---it would start rite up after 15 min..

Rite now if it is sunny & not real cold I open the engine hood so the sun can shine on it.
However I think it is the owners who get addicted to ether----not the engines.

THANKS to all for replies ....

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treeman
Join Date: Feb 2002
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2011-03-24          177556


I have a block heater in my NH TC33D and use it when it is 20deg or below. The tractor will start without it but it just makes it better. ....

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skipll
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2011-03-24          177557


Quote:
Originally Posted by treeman | view 177556
I have a block heater in my NH TC33D and use it when it is 20deg or below. The tractor will start without it but it just makes it better.

Aaaah--a block heater----I will have to look into that. ....

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treeman
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 251 Wisconsin
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2011-03-24          177558


I installed a in-line heater in a heater hose on a old Oliver tracter this winter. We took out a pipe plug in the block and installed a hose connector in the lower radiator hose. We then ran 3/4" heater hose between the two and installed the in-line heater in the hose. It keeps it nice and toasty in the winter. My tractor has a freeze plug type block heater installed by the dealer. ....

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skipll
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2011-03-24          177559


I just googled Block heaters----they start at $34--From Amazon.com I wonder if the one below will do the job?
Will check at my local Napha store today. ....


Link:   

Click Here


 
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greg_g
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2011-03-24          177560


The tricky part is buying one the correct diameter and thread to match your engine. I don't trust the ones that are just held in place with a rubber seal. But more to the point, what's wrong with your tractor's factory cold start system? Don't you have glow plugs? compression release? manifold heater? pan heater?

//greg// ....

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skipll
Join Date: Feb 2011
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2011-03-24          177561


Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_g | view 177560
The tricky part is buying one the correct diameter and thread to match your engine. I don't trust the ones that are just held in place with a rubber seal. But more to the point, what's wrong with your tractor's factory cold start system? Don't you have glow plugs? compression release? manifold heater? pan heater?//greg//

I only have glow plugs---not 100% sure they are working. And I don't know how to check that---or even where they are.

The block heater I linked to is held on by a magnit I believe--so there is no hooking up---I realy don't know much about this subject---but I learnin ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2011-03-24          177563


The magnetic-type heater will do you just fine down there.

As for the glow plugs, the simplest way is a taillight bulb and a piece of wire. Hook up the taillight (or any 12 volt bulb like an "1156" type) to a pair of wires with bare ends, put one wire on the positive terminal of the battery, the other where the glow plug wire hooks onto the plug itself.

If the light bulb comes on, the glow plug is good, if not, replace it.


Best of luck. ....

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skipll
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 184 Robbisville NC USA
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2011-03-24          177566


Quote:
Originally Posted by Murf | view 177563
The magnetic-type heater will do you just fine down there.As for the glow plugs, the simplest way is a taillight bulb and a piece of wire. Hook up the taillight (or any 12 volt bulb like an "1156" type) to a pair of wires with bare ends, put one wire on the positive terminal of the battery, the other where the glow plug wire hooks onto the plug itself.If the light bulb comes on, the glow plug is good, if not, replace it.Best of luck.

Thanks Murf for the info. reply---will check the glow plugs as per your directions & think I will order that heater---I mean it's only $32 ;)
BTW---Like your Canadian Beer Cooler :) ....

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treeman
Join Date: Feb 2002
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2011-03-24          177580


skipll...are you allowing your glow plugs to warm up for 10sec or so BEFORE you try to start it? I can't believe your having that much of a problem down in NC... ....

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greg_g
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2011-03-25          177587


I personally wouldn't waste the money on a magnetic heater. They're terribly inefficient; way too much free air heat loss. Convenient, yes. Good value for the money, no. Before you throw away $32 on a gimmick, check the glow plug circuit first. It may be something as simple as a fuse. And try to determine if your tractor has a manual compression release.

Use a multi-meter (or a friend with a multi-meter) to check the GP circuit. They look like skinny spark plugs, one per cylinder, and will be screwed into the engine very close to the fuel injectors. Put the red meter lead on the exposed tip of one of the GPs, put the black lead on the negative post of the battery. Have someone turn the tractor keyswitch to the HEAT position. Not the START position, just the HEAT position. What you're looking for is an indication that voltage is getting to the GPs. Ideally you should see about 12.2 volts. Less than that means you're losing voltage somewhere in the circuit. Zero means an open in the circuit somewhere (blown fuse or broken wire or bad switch).

Compression release linkage typically sticks out of the back side of the valve cover, and has some sort of linkage (rods or cable) that extend to somewhere behind or beneath the steering wheel (so you can reach it from the operator seat). You open the compression release for a few seconds to allow a cold engine (thick oil) to start spinning faster for an easier diesel start.

And if you're still interested in an engine heater, I can also talk you through purchasing/installing either an oil pan heater or a lower heater hose coolant heater.

//greg// ....

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skipll
Join Date: Feb 2011
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2011-03-25          177590


greg_g---I have no compression release on my Kobelco SK 015 bachoe (1994 I think). Thanks for the offer to help insall a heater, but I don't think I will be doing that.
Yup treeman---I turn the glow plugs on for 15-20 secs.

This bachoe is still new to me & even though I have put 100 hrs. on it in 5 months, I still have much to learn about it.
Thanks

....

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kthompson
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2011-03-25          177597


Here Kobelco are sold by the New Holland dealer. Understand they have choice either NC commercial or the Kobelco. If not correct don't shoot me.

I have a Kubota 27 hp diesel about same age. I have learned on that engine if the engine is cold use the glow plugs a few seconds. If not it cranks a few extra times even it temp is 70F even. The temp can be a few degrees colder where you are then here (like 20 normally being the most) but would think glow plugs would be sufficient if all is working fine.

Be sure not only are the glow plugs good but power is getting to them. Does your machine have indicator light when they are heating? ....

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skipll
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2011-03-25          177606


Just tested the glow plugs ( 2 was all I could get to ). I used a DC tester that has a bulb in it & the bulb lit up. If I was to use a meter I would need some help---but if ya think I need to meter test it I will.
And yes KT---have indicator light when warming & it does work.
Next question---Do Glow plugs go bad very often? Is it a common thing---someone told me they cost bout $40.00 so it is not like changin out spark plugs---
Thanks ....

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