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chrbranic1
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 16 Pittsburgh PA
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2011-02-21          176945


Can we fence across a under ground pipeline, if we need to we will install a gate for maintaince purposes.

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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2168 West of Toronto
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2011-02-21          176947


If you're asking if it can be done physically, just don't use a machine-driven post-hole digger without info on the pipeline depth. If you're asking if it's OK legally, probably yes on your own property but better ask the right authority (depends whether the pipes are municipal, county, or state controlled). I doubt a gate would be required. ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2011-02-22          176950


What do you consider a "Pipeline", and who does it belong to?
Is this near your house that provides a service for you or in a farm field that simply crosses your property?
A pipe can have anything from high pressure gas to no pressure wastewater.
I don't have a pipeline or burried utility lines crossing the farm other than my own, or field drain tile, but neighbors who do have utility lines fence across them. I've never saw a gate where the utilty goes under a fence.
Be sure to call the "One Call" number probably in the front of your phone book a couple days before you dig, they'll send someone out to locate any underground lines or pipes.

Frank. ....

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chrbranic1
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 16 Pittsburgh PA
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2011-02-22          176961


I am not excatly sure what type of product passes thru the pipeline, but Marathon Gas has plastic markers along the line. This line is a long distance one, miles long. I cant imagine anyone using the line other than some type of large complex. I called the 800 no. on the markers and talked to someone that seemed to not know anything about placing fences. He just kept saying make a one call. His concern was diging around the area which is understandable. Me installing a fence is not an issue just curious if someone might come along and make me remove it. I get the idea that it should not be a problem, just trying to make sure.
I have seen a couple of tractors come through cutting grass and never considered putting fencing up until recently. ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5219 South Carolina
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2011-02-23          176971


The "one number" they and Hardwood mention normally covers all buried lines and pipes for locating them for your need. Call them for that will help protect you two ways, one cost of repair if you damage what ever is buried if not where they tell you it is and more important possible death or injury from digging into what ever is buried there. Installing a fence will require post and placing the post will be the issue, I think.

It would surprise me if you were not allowed to install a fence if across your property. If so there would have to be some legal restriction and would expect it must be on file with your county courthouse. ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2011-02-23          176972


I'd check the abstract on your property to be sure but more than likly Marathon has an easment allowing them access to repair or maimtain above the line. There can be all sorts of contracts, easments, agreements, etc. etc. I've never saw a pipeline or any utility mow across anyone's property here. The farmer farms right over it like it wasn't there.
I'd call again asking for someone who really knows what's going on. If they mow above the line, then yes, I'd put a gate in rather than them call later demanding a gate for their access.
Frank. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2011-02-23          176980


Sounds like an easement to me which means you can't do anything on or over it--it's like they own it--which they do. And if you do put it up they have the right to tear it down and charge you for it. And if fact you could be prosecuted for trespassing. ....

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treeman
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 251 Wisconsin
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2011-02-26          177037


There has been two major natural gas pipelines put in just south of my property. Any fences they tore down, they repaired. They even went under the interstate highway with it. The property owner still owns the property...it is just an easement. Large sheds and blacktop have been built over them too. I don't think you will have a problem constructing a fence over the pipeline. Just call diggers hotline first. ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2011-02-26          177038


A few miles north of me is a major east/west natural gas pipeline that most all the small towns within ten or fifteen miles feed from. The only place I've seen a gate is where there is some kind of I suppose shut off valves where the pipe comes above ground and a little building next to it. I don't know how many miles apart those are but they are always right next to the road and heavily fenced in. From there on across the rest of the fields the farmers have farmed across it since it's been there, probably 25 years.
One of my wife's younger cousins used to work for a power company that had the big steel towers that go long distance with real heavy electric lines. They cross lots of farms along the way. His job was to walk the path of the lines every summer checking the towers. He said they had easments to drive thru a crop under the lines to repair in an emergency but otherwise would wait till the crop was harvested for routine repairs.
Frank. ....

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chrbranic1
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 16 Pittsburgh PA
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2011-02-27          177052


On with the fence. We are new to new to owning land and would like some input about puting in wire fencing. We have 35 acres, approx 2000 feet of which run along a road that is not heavly traveled. That encourages people to dump, cut fire wood and just generally be where we dont want anyone. Fencing along the road is our main interest and later on maybe the other three sides. No animals to keep in yet. First question is where do we look for posts other than the big box stores? Can we use landscape timbers for posts, they are cheeper than round fence posts by a buck each. How about the metal t-bars, why not use them, cost is about same as round post yet seem to be easier installation. We have a tractor and a post hole digger attachment. Any online reference would be appreciated. Hopefull that is enough information to get this post started. ....

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treeman
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 251 Wisconsin
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2011-02-27          177056


When I did my fence, I used 5" x 7' long wood posts, buried 2.5', every 10 feet. Some people will run every other one with a metal post. Others will have 2 metal, then one wood. My dad had a fence next to the road to keep people out and he had all metal posts and it worked great for that. Get the t-posts that have the flat blade on the bottom. Get long enough ones to get deep enough. Treated 8x8 work good for corner posts. I found limestone gravel tamps in great around corner posts. I used a 1/2" rod to tamp the dirt to the bottom, then a 1" rod to tamp the rest. You will want a good and heavy second from the end post to run your diagonal brace to. ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2011-02-27          177057


Perhaps you want to build your own fence as a something to do project, but I'll make another suggestion.
I used to do all my own fence work to keep livestock on the different farms but the last couple times I needed fence I found that contracting it out was less costly. There are two somewhat local firms here that do custom fencing. I've only dealt with one but I haven't heard anything bad about the other one. They furnish all materials, labor, cleanup, etc. for less money that I could have bought the materials only. You decide what type of fence, wood posts, steel posts, gates, three barb wires four, five whatever you want they'll give you na quote and have it done in a day or less. Look in your phone book for fence builders or check with your county extension office they may have a list of fence builders. Get a signed contract, and don't be afraid to ask to see their prior jobs, if they did it right they'll be glad to show you.
Frank.
Frank. ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5219 South Carolina
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2011-02-28          177076


Realize you have no plans for animals but consider the fence past just keeping people out if there is possibility you will end up with animals what type of fence would then be needed.

In the mean time you may wish to place some no trespassing signs. Depending on the trash being dumped the locals may have interest in finding who dumped it and having them clean it up. ....

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chrbranic1
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 16 Pittsburgh PA
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2011-02-28          177077


We placed about 20 signs along the road, we are guessing the people around cant read. We now have approx. 50 well used tires to deal with. I still am not sure why we should not use landscape timbers for posts. Using landscape posts would allow us to have a taller fence cheaper than round posts. We used landscape timbers for a fence around our garden about seven years ago and today they are still solid. Thanks for the suggestions, keep em coming. ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2011-02-28          177079


Even with a fence it's not unusual to find old washing machines, kitchen stoves, matresses, etc., and just plain garbage in the county gravel road ditches outside the fence.
Some of the garbage dumpers weren't real brilliant, they put their old magazines with the address labels still attached in the garbage bags. They got to clean up the ditch and pay the littering fine both.
Frank. ....

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treeman
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 251 Wisconsin
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2011-02-28          177092


Someone dumped a big screen tv on a road by us. They called the manufacturer with the serial number and found the owner. ....

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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2168 West of Toronto
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2011-03-05          177202


If a gas line there's surely an easement. Terms vary but typically it gives them the right to go on it to do work, and probibits the placing on it of anything that would obstruct their access to it, such as a building. As for fences, they have stiles to climb over them, and are used to removing/restoring to get machinery in.

Fencing materials and construction depends on local conditions, the purpose, and sometimes local regulations. I agree you may find that professionals will do it faster, cheaper, and better than an individual can. ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4285 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2011-03-10          177311


Quote:
Originally Posted by chrbranic1 | view 177052
On with the fence. We are new to new to owning land and would like some input about puting in wire fencing. We have 35 acres, approx 2000 feet of which run along a road that is not heavly traveled. That encourages people to dump, cut fire wood and just generally be where we dont want anyone. Fencing along the road is our main interest and later on maybe the other three sides. No animals to keep in yet. First question is where do we look for posts other than the big box stores? Can we use landscape timbers for posts, they are cheeper than round fence posts by a buck each. How about the metal t-bars, why not use them, cost is about same as round post yet seem to be easier installation. We have a tractor and a post hole digger attachment. Any online reference would be appreciated. Hopefull that is enough information to get this post started.


I feel your pain!!! We HAD a similar situation in addition to what you mention, night time poaching of deer and partying was going on, not to mention who knows what else. These mutants were using the pipeline to gain access to our property. I continuously called and stayed on the supervisor for this section of pipeline who was intially not supportive of fencing it off........that is until someone set a very large fire. After very cordial phone conversation in which I explain the civil liability the pipeline company had for the fire, the fence magically appeared. It has a gate that stays locked. Things are not perfect now but MUCH MUCH better.

I suggest you talk to the superviser for the section of pipeline that goes over your property. Trespassing has become a HUGE national scurge and the pipeline companies are discovering that good fences make good neighbors. ATV and horseback riding are terrible errosion hazards which can lead to the pipeline being exposed on steep inclines. The fences go a long ways to stopping this problem.

If fact, now that a positive repour has been established, we mow the pipeline and plant it as a giant foodplot. The wildlife loves it and the pipeline folks have that much less to maintain. ....

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AbbasChild
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 72 Western Pennsylvania
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2011-03-10          177318


kthompson, I think, has a good answer to your repeated question about the landscape timbers--what, if any, animals are in the future for your land? You do not want to redo "inexpensive" fencing in the future when you find out it will not suit your needs--a good fence will save a lot of headaches in the future if animals are in your plans. Horses are destructive and will snap a lot of smaller wooden posts or potentially get hurt on steel ones.

I also agree--find some one to do it. My wife and I are looking into fencing a new pasture, and I think the cost of hiring someone to do it right will be worth it.

Just my thoughts.

Mike ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2011-03-10          177322


I think using landscape timbers for fencing is a bad idea. Timbers just are not rated to be submerged in wet conditions. The open end grain will wick water up like a straw. Ever pick up a timber that's been in contact with the ground for a season? It'll have earthworms and other bugs under and in it. ....

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treeman
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 251 Wisconsin
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2011-03-10          177323


I think you get what you pay for as far as rot protection. Your rotting will happen at ground level where it is moist AND has air. Posts I've pulled out after 15 years show no rot at the bottom but some at ground level. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7147 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2011-03-10          177324


We have to plant a lot of posts (wood and otherwise) every year, and since most of them are in the middle of a bunch of very pricey turf, otherwise known as a golf course, you don't want to have to do it very often.

After a conversation with a a long-time electrical utility employee about their poles, the average age of which is 30+ years old, I got a whole (hole?) new appreciation for how important preparation is.

Their method is to make the hole no less than 8" larger around than the pole their putting in. They put down at least 12" of "pea gravel" on the bottom of the hole, then stand the pole up in the center of the hole, then pour more pea gravel in around the pole compacting it with a small hydraulic vibratory packer on the end of a long wand.

The end result is that the pole is standing on 12" of stone, with a minimum of 4" of stone all around it.

The pole is rarely wet, and rarely rots.


Best of luck. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2011-03-10          177325


Murf these posts that you plant are they from seed or transplant?

Seriously though, the utility co's here simply drill a 4 foot hole a bit larger than the post and drop them in with little to no tamping. However on the Gulf coast where there is nothing but sand where they drilled post holes they use expanding foam as backfill.

The pea gravel idea sounds good on paper, but what if you have a high water table (as little as 12") like we do here? It would seem no gravel should be used otherwise it will create a soup bowl. ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2011-03-10          177326


Not debating the suggestions for making a post in the ground to be installed to last. Pipeline right or way easements regularly have heavy equipment come through to trim back trees, cut trees that become "danger trees", and mow/bushhog. Fencing that is installed to last on a permanent basis in the long run may be more cost effective but I suspect the pipeline easement people want the pipeline easement left open or at least fenced in such a way that it can easily and without damaging the fencing be opened up. My suggestion would be to coordinate with the pipeline supervisor to see if they would either cost share or bare the entire cost of a simple steel T-post and barbed wire fence with 4 to 5 wires depending upon the height you want to go with and and simple steel gate that can all be purchased at the local Coop or Tractor Supply Center. T-Posts can easily be pulled up with the proper puller undamaged if need be and later reinstalled. They will STILL provide just as much deterent to trespassers as a more expensive and permanent fence. This is what I use to keep ATV riders off of our property. They make a trail......my hunt club guys fence it off with T-posts and barbed wire. They go around the fenced off area, they add more T-posts and barbed wire. Eventually these douche bags get the idea and find some place else. Hidden IR/Passive flash and other types of trail/game cameras and recording devices also go a LONG ways to identifying the dirtbags who refuse to abide by the NO trespassing signs. I have also had some success in writing, speaking with, and lobbying my state representatives to amend the trespassing code to make it a criminal act and NO LONGER a civil issue to trespass and the crime becomes aggravated criminal trespassing if any signs are disturbed or and damage is done to fences, gates, or the property. The penalty is still a misdemeanor but now instead of a civil fine, the accused is charged criminally and must retain an attorney or plead guilty in general sessions court. This will amount to about $2500 for an attorney plus the fine and court costs. It's not a perfect solution, but it's a start. ....

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chrbranic1
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 16 Pittsburgh PA
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2011-03-14          177389


Sounds like using land scape timbers is not the best idea for at least two reasons. One being rot at ground level, the other is the posts will become distorded, leaning over, generally in in the direction of the loads imposed by the fencing. So be it we will use the product which is made for the purpose. About the pipeline, the gas company did not have a concern other than gaining access for emergency repair. At this time we are putting in a fence with no gate and and ok with it being tore down to conduct emergency maintence. We hope cutting grass is not considered emergency maintence. Thanks for the help folks. ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
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2011-03-15          177395


As to Murf and EW comments on the post or poles the electric company install here with often very high water level never had notice any sign of gravel but they are using tar and a water proof wrapping of the post a few inches below ground to about 4 inches above ground. My guess is like a foot below ground but have never asked.

Here landscape timbers as post last about three years. The tee metal post seem to last very well here but are not used a lot other than road fencing. But have not notice a lot of private new fencing last few years. ....

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