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Master Shield Gutter Protection - Anyone have them

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2009-07-17          164159


Some of our gutters are very high and thus difficult to clean. The only way I can get to them is by renting a 45 foot boom lift. And they clog a couple of times a year. When they clog in the winter the ground is too muddy to support a boom lift so I just have to let them overflow until it dries out some.

So I've been looking for decent gutter protectors for a long time and haven't found any that would last, protect against pine needles and wouldn't require cleaning.

Today I signed up to have the Master Shield protectors installed. I have a three day right to cancel and was curious if anyone here had seen or heard anything about them. There are a few youtube clips online attesting to the effectiveness of Master Shield protectors, and I've got to say the product certainly looks like it will work. I honestly don't see a down side to them other than cost and they are spendy.

Basically they become an extension of the roof line over the gutter. The portion that is above the gutter is corrugated with slots in it to drain water. The corrugated portion is covered with a fine steel mesh, so fine that pine needles won't go through them and they can't get into the gutter. Maybe big leaves from deciduous trees would interfere with drainage, otherwise I can't see how they could not work.

Anyway, does anyone here have or know somebody who has this system and have any feedback?

See link for details.


Link:   Master Shield

 
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Master Shield Gutter Protection - Anyone have them

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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2168 West of Toronto
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2009-07-18          164164


Also thinking about it, same reasons, don't know. Check the Gutter Helmet site. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2009-07-18          164168


Quote:
Originally Posted by auerbach | view 164164
Also thinking about it, same reasons, don't know. Check the Gutter Helmet site.


Products like Gutter Helmet, Gutter Topper, and LeafGuard aren't all that effective against short fir needles. The needles happily follow the water right around the curve, which is supposed to separate water from debris, and right into the gutter. A few neighbors have tried those products with poor results and when the gutters do clog they are quite a bit harder to clean. If you have leaves they probably work OK. We got a quote for gutter helmet once, and he claimed if the gutters ever clogged they would come out and clean them for free - but that is not a manufacturer warranty, only a dealer warranty, and dealers come and go. ....

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Master Shield Gutter Protection - Anyone have them

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5219 South Carolina
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2009-07-18          164172


Ken, we recently had guttering installed on my MIL house. She has some good size trees close enough to get leaves in them. Pine trees and hardwoods are very common here. Short needles such as fir are not. But the guy who did her job and I talked a good bit about the different styles. He strongly did not recommend the covered gutter design. He may have meant a certain brand such as you have mentioned and may not even know of the one you have in mind for I don't remember brands but he said they will clog and are major problems to clean out. This guy has got good history with some of my family for many years. He was not even a fan of the mesh that many install on top of open gutters. Wash them out was his suggestion but that is short of hard for you and understand that.

So you are good a designs..wonder if you could run water line up to the high end of the gutters so from the ground you could flood them washing them out? Might require some sort of nozzles and line you could hook up to pressure washer but would seem reasonable compared to the effort as often as you have it to clean them.

One thing they do here very much is use the commerical size down spouts. Our last house we had lots of pines and residential size down spouts. Problem often. NO PINES as we made sure of before we built current house. But we do have some hardwoods close enough leaves do land on house. Very very seldon do they not was down the larger commerical down spouts. Now my oldest SIL has same type of gutters with lots of pines and he has to clean his about once a year. Single story so we can use leaf blower with sort of "U" end on it and do much of that.

Ken, there is a single story bank here who's down spouts are really really different,large light weight chains! I have watch them in action for a few minutes and they work very well. In their case the chain is in place of the enclosed down spouts and ancorched at the ground. May have one stand off. The water really does run down the chain guess the same way it wraps over the edge of the design of gutter cap you have in mind. But cloggs would be history. Also if the issue is at the down spouts you can often use a leaf blower to force air up and blow the down spout and any leafs from the top of it clear.
....

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Master Shield Gutter Protection - Anyone have them

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2009-07-18          164176


KT, I've been looking for gutter protection products on and off for ten years and they all have shortcomings but the only shortcoming I can see on these Master Shields is how they might perform with big leaves (which we don't have) and on inside corners which might allow debris build-up but should be easily cleared with a hose. The fact that our roof is a fairly steep 12/12 reduces the inside corner issue to some extent.

For sure, most covers don't work with fir needles. These seem to be different. A very fine stainless mesh covers the corrugated slots. In fact they say that oils from the manufacturing process will tend to allow water to run off the tops of the gutters, rather than drain, until the oils wash away. Not much besides water can get through those. Maybe in a very heavy rain they won't keep up but *mostly* we get light rain for long periods of time.

I tend to be very skeptical of this stuff. Maybe we will regret the purchase but it really looks like they will work.

For downspouts, chains work but they don't get water away from the foundation. All the gutters tie into the foundation drain which exits down the slope 50 feet from the house so it would be hard to blow air up the spouts. The downspouts don't clog, but the opening at the gutter does. After pulling a handful of fir needles out of the opening in the gutter they always drain quickly, until the next glob of fir needles plugs them up again two minutes later.

Funny you should mention the nozzle cleaning method. I've been thinking that a pulsed sequence of nozzles could be used to sweep debris *up* the slope of the gutters, away from the downspout, and out the capped end which would have to be unlatch and hinged to allow the rinse water to drain. But it would be expensive even if it worked. ....

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Master Shield Gutter Protection - Anyone have them

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5219 South Carolina
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2009-07-18          164189


Ken, I don't think the way you mentioned the holes that system is used here. We get light showers and very heavy downpours. An inch an hour is not unheard of. Two an hour is rather rare but with a good tropical storm does happen.

I would ask for the largest downspouts they can install so the needles are able to wash through as much as possible.

KT ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2009-07-18          164190


Several years ago a nearby town put in new sewer lines and the homeowners were responsible for hooking up to them. The town made it plain they did not want water from eave spouts going into the sewer, it would overload the sewer plant. Well several folks did it anyway so to "Smoke" out the violaters the town had someone with a smoke generator come to town, hook a big hose to the manholes. If your dwonspouts were smokin you had to dig it up and do it over. ....

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Master Shield Gutter Protection - Anyone have them

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2009-07-18          164191


KT, I'd go with bigger downspouts but they aren't replacing the gutters, they're just repositioning them and putting the protectors in place. If the protectors actually work the downspouts should be fine, if not... well I'll take advantage of their guarantee. The rainy season is only a few months away!

Frank, fortunately we don't have to worry about city sewers. All gutters tie into the foundation drain which drains to daylight 40 feet down the hill. At one point we had a problem with squirrels using the drain as an access to the roof but a screened cap put a stop to that.
....

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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2168 West of Toronto
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2009-07-19          164193


Another approach I saw at a home show is a solid block shaped to fit inside the gutter. I think each piece is about a foot long. Solid material (green, like Styrofoam but extremely porous and very light) that goes inside the gutter so water runs through it but solids sit on the top and get washed over and down. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2009-07-19          164194


Quote:
Originally Posted by auerbach | view 164193
Another approach I saw at a home show is a solid block shaped to fit inside the gutter. I think each piece is about a foot long. Solid material (green, like Styrofoam but extremely porous and very light) that goes inside the gutter so water runs through it but solids sit on the top and get washed over and down.


Those might work but weak points might be that they would either break down under sunlight, or the pores would clog up with algae, moss, dust or roof granules, or if they don't fit tight there would be gaps that would clog up, or that big leaves would lay over the top and allow water to run right off. ....

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Master Shield Gutter Protection - Anyone have them

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7140 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2009-07-20          164204


Ken, in most places up here where leaves and or needles is an issue, they use a different approach altogether.

They don't use conventional gutters at all, but rather a type of louvers set horizontally and just a few inches wide, mounted just below the roof line on the fascia board.

On the ground below that they install a strip of clear gravel with drainage tile that carries the water away.

The big advantage in our area (likely not yours though) is the winter weather doesn't really affect it all. It is mounted low enough that snow and ice just slides right off over top of it and it can't fill up. Likewise, leaves coming down late in the fall can't clog it right before freeze up the way they can gutters.

They only use short pieces of gutters over doorways and such to give protection to people going in or out.

Best of luck. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2009-07-20          164205


Murf, I've seen those louvers but didn't think they'd help much with erosion given that we get 50 inches of rain a year. How much rain do you get in your area? ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7140 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2009-07-20          164206


Ken, while we do have less rain than you, probably a lot less, we still get about 30" of rain a year, bear in mind however, we also get about 60" of snow on top of that, all of which eventually melts of course.

There really isn't an erosion problem as long as the entire thing is done as a whole 'package'. The louvers disperse the water into a small area instead of a narrow single line of drops. It then lands in a gravel area that is immune to erosion compared to soil. The water then runs down through the gravel into drainage tile where it's carried of to a discharge point.

A lot of people (especially those in the rain shadow of the Great Lakes) find they actually have less erosion since the gutters discharge at surface and this method uses buried drainage tile to carry the water away.

Best of luck. ....

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Master Shield Gutter Protection - Anyone have them

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2009-08-06          164724


So we had the Master Shield gutter protection installed and it really seems it should do the trick. I took a six inch piece, tilted it at various angles under a faucet running full blast. It was impressive, every drop of water went through the screen from nearly perpendicular to nearly parallel to the water flow. I never would have believed that. We haven't had any rain since it was installed but here are the pros and cons as I see them now.

Pros:
- Completely encloses gutter so debris can't get in
- The enclosed gutter will keep wasps from building nests
- The screen is so fine that fir needles cannot get in
- I really think this will put an end to all gutter cleaning
- Wide color selection allowed us to choose a perfect match

Cons:
- Difficult to install, it took two hard working guys two full days to install 270 linear feet (very complex roof line, steep roof and 3 story house) Lots of fabrication by hand necessary to fully enclose gutters
- It only comes in 4' sections so that affects the look. It's hard to make a bunch of 4' sections look seamless.
- Relatively expensive
- Protection is at it's weakest at inside corners, where water flow will be at the highest and gutter protector area at it's smallest. Installers said that in the worst case we may need to hose those areas down once in awhile to wash the debris completely off. In our case the worst areas are the easiest to reach so that should be ok.

I'm almost looking forward to the rainy season. ....

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cpotter638
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2 Springfield, MO
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2009-09-15          165666


Ken,

We are also considering MasterShield. Do you have any photos of the completed installation? If so, would you mind forwarding to me (cpotter3@sbcglobal.net)? Thanks in advance for the help ....

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Master Shield Gutter Protection - Anyone have them

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5219 South Carolina
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2009-09-15          165670


Ken, when not just post them here so all can see? Also have you any real rain on them yet? ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2009-09-16          165684


I'll take some pics but it won't be until this weekend sometime. The more I look at the installation the more I think I'll call them out to clean up some areas. For one, they had to lower the gutters but on a couple they didn't shorten the downspout so now the gutters are no longer flush against the fascia board.

We have had a couple of days of rain, not really hard, but they seem to work as advertised, especially with pine needles. After a rain the house is now surrounded by a perimeter of pine needles whereas before those would have been caught by the gutters. ....

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Beaner
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 27 CT
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2009-12-07          167257


I have had Mastershield installed for three years now and it is the worst investment I ever made. Moss grows all over them and the water overshoots where ever this happens. They are terrible with ice and snow. Even after snowraking the top as was recommended, the snow melt from the roof just drips right over them all winter long. They have a money back warranty which would be impossible to ever make good on because it only covers the inside of the gutter clogging, which is impossible. The warranty in no way covers the performance of the product. If the filter clogs and water does not go in, not covered. If snow and ice clog it, which happens all winter, not covered. I have to either have this removed or deal with the icy steps, walks, and driveway all winter long. I paid over $5,000 for this system and could have paid someone to clean the gutters the rest of my life for less and not had to deal with risking life and limb just to walk out my front door in the wintertime. My recommendation is to save lots of money and even more aggravation with this terrible, overpriced product. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2009-12-07          167259


Not to start an argument but don't you spray moss killer on your roof every year or so? We do it here to extend the life of the shingles. It grows like crazy in the shade with all the year-round moisture and cool evenings.

So far we've been happy with ours, they certainly keep the fir needles out, but winters are an unknown. We'll know soon but we probably don't have the ice problems that are in CT (last year was pretty bad but it was really unusual).

....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5219 South Carolina
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2009-12-07          167282


Ken, I did not realize there really is a moss killer. Then we have rain but not the same and amount of it or shade you do. You can see a little but not much of an issue here. Do you have a recommendation on brand? ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2009-12-07          167289


It's sold under several brands, Lilly Miller is the brand I use. It comes in crystals and powder. When doing the whole roof I use the tractor sprayer to spray a stream a long distance, but for shorter spot coverage I use a super soaker squirt gun. This stuff works great.
....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7140 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2009-12-07          167292


Ken,

The norm around here is a zinc strip to keep the moss, etc., at bay. The roofers put a strip of zinc sheet metal over the peak before putting on the ridge cap. The sheet metal is about 4" - 6" wider than the ridge cap so that 2" - 3" of it is exposed on each slope of the roof. When it rains a minute amount of the zinc leaches out and runs down the roof keeping it coated.

This is more than enough to keep any growth at bay.


Best of luck. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2009-12-07          167296


Quote:
Originally Posted by Murf | view 167292
Ken, The norm around here is a zinc strip to keep the moss, etc., at bay. The roofers put a strip of zinc sheet metal over the peak before putting on the ridge cap. The sheet metal is about 4" - 6" wider than the ridge cap so that 2" - 3" of it is exposed on each slope of the roof. When it rains a minute amount of the zinc leaches out and runs down the roof keeping it coated.This is more than enough to keep any growth at bay.Best of luck.


Murf, on our 12/12 roof we have one of those zinc strips at the peak. It keeps the moss off the roof for 4-6 feet down but below that the moss happily grows, at least on the shady sides. I think a zinc strip every 4 feet would keep it off but it's harder to retrofit than to spray once very year or two. We really don't have to spray very often to keep the roof moss free. ....

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Master Shield Gutter Protection - Anyone have them

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Beaner
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 27 CT
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2009-12-07          167299


I don't have a problem with moss on my roof so I don't spray moss killer. The moss grows only on the Mastershield. I am at a loss to explain exactly what this "moss" really is. It is not the fluffy green moss like you see at the base of a tree, it has a much dryer look to it and it is a very pale light green. It looks like a fungus. I have tried to clean it off but it grows right through the holes and I can't brush the underside. Quite honestly, cleaning the gutters was easier than trying to get this stuff off. I am sure there is a way to clean it, but why buy it if it needs to be cleaned? Even if I could take it off without voiding my warranty, it seems to me it would be very hard to brush the underside because there is metal underneath the filter that would make it near impossible to brush the underside of the filter itself. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2009-12-07          167301


Beaner, curious, how long ago was your MasterShield installed? It's been a few months here with no sign of what you're seeing.

Curious, it might be worth spraying a little bleach on a small section to see if that helps. That should kill about any moss, fungus or algae. It might be corrosion which stainless certainly shouldn't have. ....

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Beaner
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 27 CT
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2009-12-07          167302


About three years give or take. It definitely is not corrosion. How do I post pictures? ....

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kwschumm
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2009-12-07          167303


You can post them in your album, When you're logged in click on "My Profile" at the top of the page and scroll down to Add/Edit photos.

What does MasterShield say about the green stuff?
....

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Beaner
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 27 CT
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2009-12-07          167306


OK I posted the photos. Mastershield came out and cleaned it once and said it was not a "product failure". They said they would continue to service it but at their normal service rate which is four times what I could get the gutters cleaned for. I am not mad, I just feel like it was a lot of money to go from cleaning my gutters to cleaning my gutter covers. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2009-12-08          167323


Hmm, can't see your picture.
....

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Beaner
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 27 CT
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2009-12-08          167324


Try this link.



Picture link fixed by moderator Murf. ....

Picture Link

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Beaner
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2009-12-08          167325


And this.



Picture link fixed by moderator Murf. ....

Picture Link

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Beaner
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2009-12-08          167328


I think I figured out the pictures, I had not named them properly, you should be able to view them now. ....

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kwschumm
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2009-12-08          167329


I don't have any idea what it is but it sort of looks like the algae that grows on rocks in the desert southwest. Have you tried bleach or any other treatments on it? ....

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Beaner
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2009-12-08          167330


I have not tried bleach. I think the point is that regardless of how this can be cleaned off, what is the point of having Mastershield? I still need to go up a ladder and clean the Mastershield instead of the gutters. It absolutely keeps everything out of the gutters(including the water) but when the Mastershield itself clogs, it is pretty much the same process as before,climb a ladder and clean the Mastershield. So what have I really gained for $5,000.00? I was sold on the fact that it is a "self-cleaning filter". Apparently "self" means me. I was going to take them down because it is cheaper for me to have the gutters cleaned than to have Mastershield come clean this fungus off, but I will take some pictures in the next snow storm and post them here so you can see how useless they are with ice and snow. Buyer Beware!!!!! A lot of money to create new problems. ....

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
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2009-12-08          167332


I think that growth might be Lichen. You see it on rocks in heavily forested areas here.

....


Link:   Lichen Wiki

 
Picture Link

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
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2009-12-08          167333


This site says that Kocide and Baking Soda kills it. ....


Link:   Kocide and Baking Soda kills Lichens

 
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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
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2009-12-08          167334


Thanks Dennis, it's Lichen that grows on the rocks in Arizona and not Algae! My brain is losing it.
....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2009-12-08          167338


You might want to google class action suit with the brand name. IMHO. The plastic was not made with an anti-microbial and possibly a UV inhibitor. Either way, mold, algae, and fungus with disentegrate the material. Another issue is breakdown of the plastic (generically speaking)--if it is of poor quality it will be chalky which indicates it's breaking down. We just replaced under warranty an entire 2 story home's vynil siding because it was chalking.

Short of that, you can extend the life of the guards and the shingles by installing sacrificial zinc strips along the roof ridge. Rain dissolves the zinc coating everything the water contacts. These zinc strips aren't common here in the midwest but the are on the east coast. Sprays and cleaners will wash off. Any good roofing supply should have the zinc strips which nail easily to the ridge. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
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2009-12-08          167339


The master shield guards don't have any plastic. It's basically powder coated steel (or aluminum?) with stainless steel mesh. Maybe the powder coated finish needed some sort of inhibitor but I don't know if I've ever heard of that.

I wonder if this stuff was growing in the gutters before the guards were installed?
....

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Beaner
Join Date: Dec 2009
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2009-12-08          167342


I had new gutters installed with the Mastershield. ....

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kwschumm
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2009-12-08          167344


Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaner | view 167342
I had new gutters installed with the Mastershield.


Sorry to keep bugging you but would you mind saying how long they were installed before this stuff started growing on them? Ours has been on for about four months and has no sign of anything yet but I wouldn't expect anything in that short a period. It could also be that the moss kill and zinc strips we use will keep it at bay, dunno about that. ....

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Beaner
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2009-12-08          167351


They have been on 3 years, I would say this started growing after about a year. The first time it happened they came out and cleaned it for me, but it comes back pretty quickly. I think the reason it comes back so quickly is because the underside of the filter can't be cleaned, but I am not sure. It is really hard to clean off, and scrubbing with a brush only hits the top side. This stuff has grown right through the tiny holes and is on both sides. I hope your zinc strips keep it at bay for you, I would hate for you to go through my experience. I called today to ask about lichen but the number was out of service. I have about given up on this anyway, it is just an aggravation at this point. I don't mean to make you feel bad about your purchase, I really hope it works for you. ....

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kwschumm
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2009-12-09          167357


OK, thanks for the information. I'll have to keep an eye out for that problem. So far we really like the product but a year or two will tell. The rocks around here don't have much lichen on them so maybe that's a good thing.

Good luck with yours and if you find a solution please post it :)
....

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
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2009-12-09          167358


Quote:
Originally Posted by kthompson | view 164172
Also if the issue is at the down spouts you can often use a leaf blower to force air up and blow the down spout and any leafs from the top of it clear.


All this talk of gutters, I just noticed that my downspout/gutter on the 50 foot ladder side of the house (never been cleaned in 12 years since we don't have any trees that close to the house) is clogged. KT your idea, once we dry out, might do the trick with the blower ( if I can get the the long downspout out of the ground drain pipe :(

Thanks for the idea!

Dennis ....

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Beaner
Join Date: Dec 2009
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2009-12-14          167477


Check this link out. Tim Carter from Ask the Builder has apparently been reviewing gutter guards for quite some years. You need to read this and watch the video. He defends this test he did as scientific even though the guards were clearly subjected to totally different conditions. When asked at the end of the string if he is being paid for his endorsement, some guy named Ralph totally dodges the question and refers "Larry" to the disclosure policy. When I have time later, I am going to invite Tim Carter to come shoot a Mastershield video at my house and see if he will post this video along side his "real world test". Keep watching this link, it should get pretty interesting to find out if Tim Carter actually got paid by one of the parties in his real world test. Everyone should post a comment asking Tim to disclose if he is being paid by Mastershield for his subjectivity. ....


Link:   

Click Here


 
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kwschumm
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2009-12-14          167480


The disclosure policy linked to does say he does not get paid for endorsements but may get paid a commission when people link to a manufacturer site from his (which is a fundamental way web sites generate revenue). He also states that he will disclose when that occurs.

Whether that is accurate in all cases is another question.

Regarding testing, it can be very difficult to come up with apples to apples tests in many circumstances. Just read Consumer Reports sometime to see how there tests are done. They are often very easy to pick apart. ....


Link:   Tim Carter Disclosure Policy

 
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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2009-12-14          167481


The endorsment thing reminds me of the "Cool Tools' thing on the DIY channel. Are the Cool Tools really the favorites of the guy on the show or the favorites of the DIY channel that get the biggest financial "Incentive" from the featured tools?
Kinda like the "Real People", "not actors" on the TV ad. who get the amazing amounts of big money for their scrap gold they have sent to somnebody and are junping with joy over the big check they got.
I sure have had my outlook on things changed, like used to believe that all big corporations, banks, credit unions etc. and especially politicians were honest and to be looked up to. I won't even watch the national news on TV anymore as I firmly believe the sponsors tell the "Anchor Person" how they want the news read, or hit the bricks buddy. ....

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kwschumm
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2009-12-14          167482


Frank, I'm as cynical as you are.

When the guy came out to show me these gutter protectors I fully expected to find them to be crap and decline any offer. But the product itself impressed me. I couldn't shove a fir needle through the mesh and holding a piece of the material under a faucet running full blast I was amazed to see how much water it let through.

It looked like big leaves might block the mesh but we don't have big leaves anywhere near the house so that wouldn't be a problem.

So we bought. I never considered that stuff might grow on them and block the water path. We haven't had that problem here (yet) but if it happened to one guy it clearly happens. I'm crossing my fingers that we don't get bit by the same problem but so far the protectors are working out well. If that problem happens, well, I'm hoping that spraying moss-kill or lichen-kill or whatever will take care of it and doing that is sure easier than cleaning gutters.

Regarding cynicism, how about global warming? :)

Seriously, in the mid 80s I worked in a business where it was a major pain in the butt to get accurate temperature measurements. We had three NIST certified mercury thermometers that didn't always agree. I'm sure these days the atmospheric and weather people always use electronic sensors and there are many ways those can give inaccurate readings. First, they have to be calibrated. What do they calibrate them against? How can they know that the calibration reference standard is correct? Then they have to assume that *all* components in the circuit (thermistor or current source temperature sensor, analog to digital converter, all resistors in circuit) give a linear response AND that they meet manufacturers specs (yeah, those never have mistakes). Then they have to assume that all the components give repeatable response in all ambient temperature conditions. Then they have to assume that the performance won't change as the components age. Then they have to assume that the sensor is located in a location that won't be affected by outside influences (here they found a few that were located in the exhaust path of roof air conditioner units!)

Give me a break!

And they claim to be able to accurately tree rings and ice cores and derive temperatures from a thousand years ago. Yeah, right. That has to be about as accurate as reading tea leaves.
....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
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2009-12-14          167483


My chuckle for the day on Saturday was the ten o'clock local TV news showing a bunch of college kids in Iowa City demonstrating for the Global Warming, thing at Jokenhagen, It was below zero, freezing their butts off, these are our future leaders?
....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2009-12-14          167484


I had a good laugh too, but it was a clip of an airplane towing a banner over the conference area, it read "Stop global warming now!". It was paid for by one of the big 'environmental' groups.

I wonder if anyone ever told them that one small airplane puts out about as much pollution as 20 or 25 cars? ;)

Maybe it's just another case of do as I say, not as I do?


Best of luck. ....

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Beaner
Join Date: Dec 2009
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2009-12-15          167508


I think it would be simple to conduct a fairer test of gutter protection. If he had put them on the same gutter, tested them for the same amount of time, etc. The point is that if you read through all of the comments, you would see that the people that accused Mr. Carter of conducting a subjective test were accused by Mr. Carter of "having a dog in this hunt". What he does not reveal is whether or not he has a dog in this hunt. Finding this forum got me to thinking and I did a little checking around to see if others were having problems like mine, there is tons of negative feedback about Mastershield. Why does it seem Tim Carter is the only one who likes Mastershield? And if he is not getting paid, why would one be referred to his disclosure policy rather than revealing whether or not he gets paid? Here is another link to Mastershield complaint. ....


Link:   

Click Here


 
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Beaner
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2009-12-15          167509


Here is another page of complaints ....


Link:   

Click Here


 
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Beaner
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2009-12-15          167510


and more complaints ....


Link:   

Click Here


 
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Beaner
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2009-12-15          167511


and a link to the BBB with 20 complaints in 36 months ....


Link:   

Click Here


 
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Beaner
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2009-12-15          167512


and another complaint ....


Link:   

Click Here


 
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Beaner
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2009-12-15          167513


and here is a link where they had their BBB accredidation revoked ....


Link:   

Click Here


 
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Beaner
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2009-12-15          167514


Another Mastershield company revoked ....


Link:   

Click Here


 
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Beaner
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2009-12-15          167515


I could keep going but I think you get the drift. If these complaints are anything like my experience I don't think you can dismiss them as false. It would sure be interesting to know why the product works so well at Mr. Carter's house and seemingly nowhere else. I bet it has something to do with money. You can't make this stuff up, stay away from Mastershield. ....

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kwschumm
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2009-12-15          167516


Well, SO FAR (knock on wood) the product is working fine here. Our dealer did tell us that some maintenance was required, specifically that needles may build up on inside corners and have to be removed. When the needles aren't removed then dripping does occur. One thing that helps us is a very steep 12/12 roof, I can see a shallow roof not working as well since the water won't wash down as fast and clear the debris as well.

Many of the complaints you link to are about icicles forming. I'm not at all sure that's a mastershield problem since icicles have been forming on eaves since the invention of the roof.

Some other complaints are about dealers and not about the product itself. Crappy dealers sell all kinds of products, good and bad, so maybe mastershield should be more willing to yank bad dealers but that's not a reflection on product performance. We installed a well respected heat pump brand but it's been a huge disappointment due to the crappy installation.

The BBB thing seems damaging but they give no details.

(An an aside I had a consumer issue with the BBB once and they are pretty much a worthless organization that runs for the benefit of the businesses that provide funding as opposed to consumers. There's no way my business would be a BBB member).

Have you found anyone else who has reported the problem you are having? ....

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DennisCTB
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2009-12-15          167519


Gutters are a maintenance problem by nature. The closer trees are to your house and the more of them you have the worse it gets.

On my prior home I tried putting a do it yourself shield on. At best it just elongated the time between cleanings, at worst it made the the cleaning process so difficult that I removed them.

IMHO any type of gutter shield is an attempt to make the best of a bad situation, and as such is not going to be a complete home run, hopefully an improvement in lengthening the gutter maintenance interval.

Any gutter company will probably have lots of complaints as well because home owners that buy them, do it as the result of having intense tree problems. Add a little over selling of how good they will be and you have complaints.

I have seen homes in the south where they have overhangs with no gutters, allowing the water to flow off the roof into stone aqueducts around the house. I noticed in northern Vermont many homes don't have gutters but have what looks like a 2 foot slide zone of metal sheeting along the bottom edge of the roof. As icicles become more likely in southern Vermont you have to switch to the dreaded gutter, though it only works if the gutters are clear and not frozen.

Anyway, color me skeptical that any gutter cure product will be fully satisfying.

....

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jimeagle
Join Date: Jul 2010
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2010-07-15          172311


I have looked around for gutter system ratings for some time and the only reliable source for the ratings, performance and cost that i could find is at gutterprotectionreview.org ....


Link:   MasterSheild Ratings, Price and Review

 
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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
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2010-07-15          172317


The Sept issue of CONSUMER REPORTS magazine will cover them. Should be on magazine racks in a couple weeks. If there's one top-rated brand it might sell out, so act fast. ....

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kwschumm
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2010-07-15          172325


We're going on a year since the MasterShield was installed. Really no complaints so far. Have had to clean the inside corners in one spot twice with a hose and that's about it. Had two brief snowstorms during the winter, nothing severe, but had no problems. So far I'm satisfied. The installer didn't do the best work but it's not terrible. Mostly they took the lazy way and lowered the downspouts instead of cutting them shorter when the gutters were lowered. ....

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hockeyrulez
Join Date: Aug 2011
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2011-08-09          179732


kwschumm, any update on what you think of the product now that it's been 2 years? Thanks!

....

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kwschumm
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2011-08-09          179737


Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyrulez | view 179732
kwschumm, any update on what you think of the product now that it's been 2 years?Thanks!


Our roof is very high and very complex and there are a couple of inside corners in the lower valleys where pine needles accumulate. An 8 foot ladder and a hose with a sprayer take care of that once a year. If the clogging valleys were waaaayyy up there it would be a problem.

Winters here aren't as harsh as some parts of the country. That said there are some icicles that grow on them but I don't think they are any worse than they were when the gutters were plugged up. Maybe it would be a much bigger concern in areas where it's snowy and freezing for months at a time. Snow here usually lasts for a couple of weeks and is gone.

The powder coated finish is holding up very well and the color was a real close match to our trim color so that worked out well.

I guess my biggest complaint is that the installation around the hexagonal gazebo on our deck could have been done a little better. That's sort of a quibble since it works fine and you'd only notice if you were up on a ladder inspecting it closely.

Really, no regrets other than the high price.

Somewhere I read that similar sorts of gutter protectors are available in one of the home centers for a much cheaper price. The installation is really important though, you want little guides to guide the water in a few key places and you need to fabricate end caps to keep critters out of the ends. If you're willing to do the install you could save some big bucks that way. Myself, I was willing to pay people to climb up 45 foot ladders and do it for me.
....

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Beaner
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2011-08-09          179739


I had to take the Mastershield off of my house. It was a lot of money to have the water not go into the gutters. If seeing is not believing from the pictures I posted, my suggestion would be to check consumer reports. It appears I am not the only person that got ripped off by over priced gutter guards. I replaced Mastershield with screens from Home Depot and they were thousands of dollars less and perform far better. ....


Link:   Consumer Reports

 
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kwschumm
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2011-08-09          179741


In our area (coastal range of Oregon) about 75 inches of rain falls each year and water going through Mastershield into the gutters with a 12/12 roof works fine.

But we all have our experiences and mine are no more or less legitimate than yours.

BTW, wanna buy a CR top-rated Frigidaire washer/dryer set? Worst appliances we've ever owned.

....

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kthompson
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2011-08-10          179743


I skimmed some of the most recent post and caught the comments on BBB. As a business owner have mixed feelings and experience with BBB which I decide against being a member.

Had a bad experience with a computer repair company. Since his business address was his house and not a commercial address zoned area they would not even accept it. Many legal business are run from residents. More so today.

It is true they are there to protect the business member. At least one major insurance group would always quote how well they were rated by BBB while they were in legal issue after legal issue. Their practices were so vile they ending up changing names to operate.

BBB is in business to make money. They profess to be a watch dog and what you will find out is they are trying to remain in business and with revenue from the business side only with most (some do charge the customer to get a BBB rating of a member group) they have to keep them. Not certain but have impression they are franchised. Other wise how does the way they operate vary so much?

The best I know if a business will refute the claim they get at worst a neutral rating on a claim.

As to CR...I like their annual report where real life owners rate the product but other wise find it of little value unless they have changed their reporting from when I did receive it.

As to the gutter style being discussed here, was in office complex with one building having that style guttering. My office was second floor and I have sat and watch the water wrap around it and into the gutter often amazed at how well it worked. Now icicles here are rare and it had at least an 8/12 pitched roof.

The best solution to gutter issues I think is: build on top of knoll, have about 5 foot overhang, cut all trees in 1/2 mile. Use hip roof only and no dormers or valleys. Now if snow area have no suggestion. ....

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