tractorpoint.com - The leader in Tractors from Compacts, to Utility, to Full Size Tractors! Kubota, John Deere, New Holland, Kioti, Case/IH, and Others. Keywords=Compact Tractor, Kubota Tractors,  Kioti Tractors, JD, John Deere Tractors, New Holland, Case Boomer, Used Tractors, Classifieds, Dealer Directory, Tractor Pictures / Images
  parts   |   discussion   |   photos   |   podcast   |   reviews   |   specs   |   dealers   |   classifieds   |   contact   |   faq   |   myProfile   |   home          Login Now | Sign Up

Forums > Active Threads > Home and Garden > Home Improvement

Post Message Home Improvement

 Go Bottom
____________________________________________________________________________________
Hot Water Heater Replacement Tank or Tank Less

View my Photos
DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2644 NorthWest NJ
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2008-01-23          150635


My Oil Hot water heater has lots of calcium deposits in the the tank because we have a acid neutralizer in the system for acid water. I guess the warm water causes the calcium to solidify in the hot water heater. So small pieces come off and clog up my faucet aerators.

I was thinking of putting a hot water sediment filter in after the water leaves the hot water heater. Is there any brand that is better than another? Any does and don't s.

I was going to put in shut off valves before and after the filter, the pipe runs across the 16" on center joists where I want to put it so I thought I could skip the support bracket. Looks like they use compression fittings on cold water filters to attach it, same for hot?



Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Hot Water Heater Replacement Tank or Tank Less

View my Photos
candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2008-01-23          150641


Dennis CTB,

You'll have to be careful when choosing a filter system for your hot water lines.

Most filter housings are made of plastic, and may not be rated for hot water use. Hot water may soften the plastic, allowing it to swell under pressure. Worst case scenario.....the plastic fails, flooding your home.

I would suggest a metal housing. In addition, you may want to ask about what filters to use, as the hot water may also cause a problem with them.

As for filters........

Filters are rated in microns. For most people, 10 or 20 micron filters are fine. These will stop sand from getting through. You can also get filters that go as small as 5 micron, which will filter out most silt.

Since you're dealing with fairly large debris, a 20 micron filter would probably work just fine.

The better filters, such as the 5 micron type, will run you a bit more money. You'll save money if you can get by with a filter that doesn't filter out things that small.

Joel ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Hot Water Heater Replacement Tank or Tank Less

View my Photos
kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2008-01-23          150642


Wouldn't the higher temperatures promote bacterial growth in any standard type of filter? I'd think filters rated for hot water would have some special sort of antibacterial treatment. To filter out the type of material your faucet aerator screens catch a screen type arrangement with a similar sized mesh might be best. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Hot Water Heater Replacement Tank or Tank Less

View my Photos
earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2008-01-24          150643


Dennis, it may be the dip tube inside the tank that is breaking down. There were many class-action lawsuits over this problem. Another result of the dip tubes either breaking down or breaking off was you could never get really hot water as the the cold water came in from the top (usually) and cooled the hot water. If memory serves there is a sacrifical cathode tube inside too that breaks down over time so that might be what you are seeing. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Hot Water Heater Replacement Tank or Tank Less

View my Photos
DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2644 NorthWest NJ
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2008-01-24          150644


Yes there is a sacrificial tube that is supposed to be pulled periodically. Mine has never been pulled and a plumber told me at this point it was unwise to do so as I might bust up the tank since its been there for 10 years.

The stuff that clogs the aerators is white and breaks up like lime, which is what my acid neutralizer puts in the water. There is also a bit of silt like stuff, which I can get rid of when I flush the tank every 6 months. After I flush I do get more of the calcium chips in the aerators for awhile.

Hate to replace the water heater thats got to be expensive!

....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Hot Water Heater Replacement Tank or Tank Less

View my Photos
DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2644 NorthWest NJ
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2008-01-24          150647


Quote:
Originally Posted by earthwrks | view 150643
Dennis, it may be the dip tube inside the tank that is breaking down.....


Rats!

A year and a half ago I had a leak on the hot water heater at the cold water intake. I had a plumber out and I believe he replaced the dip tube as it was basically broken off. My wife had been complaining about not having enough hot water. We have plenty of hot water since he fixed the leak and replaced the dip tube.

Here is what to look for if your water heater was made between 1993 to 1997 (mine was installed in 1997) :


All hot water heater manufacturers (A.O Smith, State Rheem etc.) were affected, because plastic ages quickly in a heated environment. In this case, it crumbled into a soft white semi-gelatinous mass, and the deteriorated product floated to the top of the tank and out to the faucet. Now that the mystery substance has been determined, residents should consider if the following conditions are present in their own homes:

* Is the hot water tank relatively new, seven years or less?
* Is the substance appearing in the faucet light in color (egg shell)?
* Is it uniform in color?
* Does it float?
* Does it melt/burn if heated over a flame?
* Do you seem to have less hot water (shorter showers)?
* Is the screen in the HOT water supply to the wash machine plugged while the COLD is not?



So I guess I will test out the next batch of chips I get from the aerators to determine if it is plastic or calcium!

....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Hot Water Heater Replacement Tank or Tank Less

View my Photos
Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7141 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2008-01-24          150648


Dennis, I had a similar problem here too until I was given an excellent tip on how to deal with it.

I got a short piece of garden hose and connected it to the drain outlet at the bottom of the tank. It is long enough to run from there to the laundry tubs. Once a month when I am cleaning the electronic air cleaner elements I open the tap and let the water run into the laundry tub.

The first few times I did it I got some really nasty looking stuff out of the hose, now it is barely visible and is gone in just a moment.

Give it a try.

Best of luck. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Tractorpoint Parts
Fast Delivery!
Low Prices
Tractor Starter Motors for sale
Starter Motors
____________________________________________________________________________________
Hot Water Heater Replacement Tank or Tank Less

View my Photos
DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2644 NorthWest NJ
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2008-01-24          150653


Quote:
Originally Posted by Murf | view 150648
... Once a month when I am cleaning the electronic air cleaner elements I open the tap and let the water run into the laundry tub......


I have been flushing the tank every 6 months for the last 10 years (except the first 2 years when I didn't know about it since I always had tankless system before that ;-) ). My regime is more complicated because I have to drain it out to the lawn with a 75 foot garden house, and I have to get rid of the 50 gallons of hot water before I do that.

I dread it because I then have to fiddle with almost every tap in the house as the air that gets trapped and the aerators get clogged and yes I remove the aerators before I vent the lines but they still seem to clog within a few days :(

That laundry tub in the basement sure sounds good, I was smart enough to have the septic pipes put in the slab when the house was built (gravity no septic pump :))

OK I am down to the basement ! ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Hot Water Heater Replacement Tank or Tank Less

View my Photos
Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7141 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2008-01-24          150655


Dennis, I just spoke with the person who tipped me off to this trick, he stated that if you have a real problem with material building up in the tank you can sort of power wash the tank easily.

If you have a hose to the laundry tubs, shut off the cold water inlet to the tank and turn off the heater itself then drain the hot water tank into the tubs as far as it will drain, now hook the hose to the tap in the laundry room and start refilling it from the bottom (if your hose doesn't screw directly onto the tap, you can get an adapter at most home centers or hardware stores). After the water has run for a few minutes, turn on the cold water inlet, and unscrew the hose from the tap.

The water reversing direction and blasting in the sediment drain should clear most of it out.

Best of luck. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Hot Water Heater Replacement Tank or Tank Less

View my Photos
DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2644 NorthWest NJ
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2008-01-24          150673


I don't have a tub in the basement, I have a well tank and drain or I can reach an outdoor water faucet with a hose. The bigger problem is this would require two female ends on the hose, does anyone make an adapter? Like the enema idea ;) ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Hot Water Heater Replacement Tank or Tank Less

View my Photos
Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7141 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2008-01-24          150674


Dennis, the simplest way to do it is to cut off the male end and replace it with a replacement female end, about $3 at any home center.

In my case it was an old hose that had cracked from old age anyways, until you mentioned it I had completely forgot about having to change the end.

Best of luck. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Hot Water Heater Replacement Tank or Tank Less

View my Photos
kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5219 South Carolina
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2008-01-24          150675


Dennis, if your water heater is electric be sure you cut it off before draining. Being where you are it probably is gas. Pick up a washing machine hose, female ends on both ends. If you need to drain the water heater up hill, just use a drill powered pump or do you have a sump pump that you may be able to connect to or drain to it (be sure the hot water will not damage any part of this). Just wondering, and if missed sorry, are you draining your tank with the water cut off or leaving the input open to push out the sediment? I would finish any draining by letter having the water pressure flush the tank even if you don't back flush it as Murf suggested. If after doing this you are unable to close your drain fully and end up with a drip, you can either get you a faucet that screws onto the hose fitting end on the current drain and cut it off or just use the solid end for a garden hose.

I have seen calicum build up on electric water heater elements until you would almost fail to remove the element. kt ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Hot Water Heater Replacement Tank or Tank Less

View my Photos
bialecki
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 60 Southern Connecticut
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2008-01-24          150679


Dennis I too have high pH with my well water (pH of 4.8 as 7 is neutral), I use Sodium Carbonate (soda ash) to neutralize my water and the sodium eventually builds up in a manner that you described. Are you sure it is Ca versus Na? I found that I was able to pull the lines from the oil fired hot water heater and use a commercial Na deposit removal agent to clean out the scale. After that I checked the chemistry of my solution, I was injecting too strong of a sodium carbonate solution, so I backed off, I now use 2-1/2 coffe cans (16 oz metal can) of sodium carbonate to 10 gallons of water. My chemical feed pump settings are set at 80% of full capacity (my pump capacity is 30 gallons/day). Of course it only pumps when the well pump kicks on.

With these settings I have not had a problem in over three years.

Also you will find that after you clean your hot water heater it will be more efficient as well.

Also seeing that your HW heater is ~ 10 years old sounds like a new one may be in order. I found the best on the market for a oil fired HW heater is a Bock.
http://www.bockwaterheaters.com/technical/faqs.html

....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Hot Water Heater Replacement Tank or Tank Less

View my Photos
DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2644 NorthWest NJ
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2008-01-24          150680


Quote:
Originally Posted by Murf | view 150674
Dennis, the simplest way to do it is to cut off the male end and replace it with a replacement female end, about $3 at any home center....


I didn't want to sacrifice a hose, so I bought the two specialty brass pieces $8 here in NJ. So I worked on this since noon today, up and down to the basement, and just cleaned all the aerators and turned on the "Oil" fired water heater.

Giving her Murf''s enema losed it up just a small amount, I had flushed it several times from the top prior to the enema. This would be great for those who have such a big build up that the drain is clogged, mine was not.

I have quite a few pieces of what I previously thought was lime, it floats suggesting that it is broken up pieces of the old plastic pipe, now I will see if it melts to confirm that it is plastic. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Hot Water Heater Replacement Tank or Tank Less

View my Photos
DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2644 NorthWest NJ
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2008-01-24          150682


Quote:
Originally Posted by bialecki | view 150679
Dennis I too have high pH with my well water (pH of 4.8 as 7 is neutral), I use Sodium Carbonate (soda ash)......


Our PH is only mildly acidic something in the 6.5 range, the nuetralizer tank takes Calcite, the tank gets filled once a year, there are no adjustments, it gets back flushed a couple of times a week on a timer.

If I have to replace my oil fired 50 gallon water heater, I want to think about a non oil based unit with the high cost of oil, and possibly tankless. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Tractorpoint Parts
Fast Delivery!
Low Prices
Tractor Starter Motors for sale
Starter Motors
____________________________________________________________________________________
Hot Water Heater Replacement Tank or Tank Less

View my Photos
bialecki
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 60 Southern Connecticut
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2008-01-24          150684


Just bought a Ranni propane heater for the loft over my garage, what a great heater, a breeze to install. They are also well known for their tankless propane water heaters. http://aestheticenterprises.com/ranni-tankless-water-heaters/2006_04_16_archive.html

Check the net for best pricing and ratings. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Hot Water Heater Replacement Tank or Tank Less

View my Photos
DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2644 NorthWest NJ
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2008-01-25          150697


Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisCTB | view 150647
...* Is the substance appearing in the faucet light in color (egg shell)?* Is it uniform in color?* Does it float?* Does it melt/burn if heated over a flame?* .... So I guess I will test out the next batch of chips I get from the aerators to determine if it is plastic or calcium!


Ok I put the white stuff from my strainers in a teapspoon and heated it, it melts and it smells like plastic. I guess after spending 7 hours on flushing this yesterday it is pretty impossible to get that stuff out. Now I know what it is. Is it a health hazard ? Can't be good for you. Since it is caught in the strainers it is contaminating the drinking water :(
....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Hot Water Heater Replacement Tank or Tank Less

View my Photos
DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2644 NorthWest NJ
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2008-01-28          150867


Now that I know that it is plastic in the tank and not calcium I called Therm-Flow the manufacturer of the hot water heater. They said they have not gotten many calls since 2000 when the the class action suit was brought.

The support person said that flushing would not get rid of the particles but that I could skim them out of the tank. Here is the process:

1) Drain the tank to below the pressure relief pipe
2) Remove the pressure relief valve and pipe
3) replace the pressure relief valve with a nipple
4) slowly open the fresh water valve allowing the flowing PVC pieces to skim off into a bucket

Since there may be still be large pieces of the dip pipe decaying in the tank you may need to repeat this process periodically.

He also said since the tank is 10 years old it might be just as well to replace it if I am concerned about the PVC contamination.

I asked him if there were any problems with tank less systems and well water, and he indicated that tank less systems could get clogged fairly quickly compared to a tank system.

....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Hot Water Heater Replacement Tank or Tank Less

View my Photos
kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5219 South Carolina
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2008-01-28          150871


Dennis, two quick thoughts...and they do not sell the tankless do they? So the tankless is not as good because they do not make and sell them or they do not make and sell them because they are not as good. I have no idea which and know no one who uses tankless. Here most are electric 80 gallons tanks.

Second point, if the drop tube is what is decayed, then your cold water MAY not be pushed to the bottom of the tank to be heated. Normally the cold water is pushed to the bottom of the tank to be heated to raise to the top when heated. But the tube prevents the cold water mixing with the hot wated as it comes in. So if your water starts out hot and then gets cooler rather quickly you probably would benefit by replacing your tube with a metal one. Since you are having the problem (my understanding) with a plastic drop tube, why not replace it any how when you clean the plastic pieces out if you can find one. kt ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Hot Water Heater Replacement Tank or Tank Less

View my Photos
DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2644 NorthWest NJ
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2008-01-28          150872


Quote:
Originally Posted by kthompson | view 150871
.Second point, if the drop tube is what is decayed, then your cold water MAY not be pushed to the bottom of the tank to be heated....


I already had the dip tub replaced 2 years ago and I have tons of steaming hot water, I just did not know what it was then and that the decayed dip tube was still in the tank in pieces and bits. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Hot Water Heater Replacement Tank or Tank Less

View my Photos
kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5219 South Carolina
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2008-01-29          150880


"steaming hot water"

Could your temp setting be so high it is part of the problem? kt ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Hot Water Heater Replacement Tank or Tank Less

View my Photos
DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2644 NorthWest NJ
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2008-01-29          150882


Quote:
Originally Posted by kthompson | view 150880
"steaming hot water"Could your temp setting be so high it is part of the problem? kt



No, what I meant was other than the particles it is working completely normal. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Return to index    Go Top


Share This



Tractorpoint Parts
Fast Delivery!
Low Prices
Tractor Radiator for sale
Radiators