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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
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2008-01-17          150281


With the recent increase in hiking homicides, short of not hiking or carrying a gun how can you stay safe when hiking on the trails?

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
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2008-01-17          150284


Go with a big group? Myself, I always carry in the woods. You
never know when a predator, human or otherwise, will show up.
I've done this ever since a friend of mine told a story
about being stalked by a cougar after hiking to a remote
mountain lake to do some fishing. .40 S&W may not take down
a big animal but it's better than a rock or a stick. ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
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2008-01-17          150286


Dennis CTB,

I would never recommend that a woman hike alone. And men should prepare themselves for a life in the wild when hiking. Unfortunately, it's not "just a walk in the park".

Though homicides do take place, the most common cause of death, when hiking, is getting lost and being overcome by the elements.

A dependable sidearm is just one of many tools a hiker should have available to him. A good map, a compass, fire-starting equipment, first aid kit, (as well as the skills to use these things)a hatchet, knife, mirror, and rain gear, are just as important.

I prefer to carry a simple revolver, chambered in .45 Colt, when camping or hiking. They are always dependable, simple to clean, and they won't freeze shut when wet and cold. Stainless is better than blued steel, but any revolver is preferred over a semi-auto gun.

Joel ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2008-01-17          150292


Quote:
Originally Posted by candoarms | view 150286
but any revolver is preferred over a semi-auto gun.Joel


That's an opinion, not a fact. I'd rather have 15 rounds than 5-8, but each to their own. ....

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yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan
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2008-01-17          150294


Unfortunately their isn't much a person can do. The element of surprise is always the critical factor. Even if you have a gun, if the other guy shoots first, you are at a major disadvantage.

My suggestions:
1. Keep your distance from strangers.
2. If you happen to begin a conversation with a stranger always keep them within direct view and never beyond your peripheral vision. (i.e. eliminate getting clubed from behind)
3. If you have a big dog that generally helps, particularly if it acts agressively. If you make it appear that you have difficulty in controlling the dog while on the leash it also helps scare them away.
4. If you are not comfortable with carrying a gun, a large walking stick is helpful. Ken mentioned his .40 S&W which has about the same ballistics as a .45ACP or Joel's .45LC. All of these can take down a cougar or other predator. A .38 is the smallest I'd suggest in areas where large predators do not exist. Have extra ammo in reserve.
5. As Joel has mentioned, be prepared for the worst if you get lost. Be able to build a fire, have first aid, a flashlight, some snacks and water to get you by.
6. If you are going alone let someone know where you are going and when you expect to return. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2008-01-17          150295


Ditto, I'll take my chances with a good auto.

A Glock 19 (9mm) for me, and a S&W 422 (.22) for her.

The 422 doesn't have stopping power, but will get off a clip full in mere seconds and since there's no recoil, it's a tight group even in her hands and I figure 12 LR hollow point .22's will put a dent in the enthusiasm of most things.

If nothing else it would give us 12 shots at dinner, literally!

Best of luck. ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
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2008-01-17          150296


Yooperpete,

Many thanks.

I have a semi-auto Springfield 1911 in .45 ACP for home defense. The thing is always dry, and I can disassemble and clean it while I have other firearms at the ready.

Disassembling a semi-auto in the wild can be quite a chore, especially when wet, cold, and while wearing gloves. Revolvers are so much easier to maintain in the wild, due to the fact that no disassembly is required.

Revolvers also come in calibers that are much more powerful than those available in the semi-auto guns.

Regardless....homocides are very infrequent. The biggest danger hikers face is injury, or getting lost. Even in these cases, a firearm can be a life-saver....if for no other reason than as a signaling device.

Three rounds, fired one minute apart, is the international signal for SOS. (This doesn't help much, if the people who hear the shots have never been made aware of the international distress signals.)

Joel ....

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denwood
Join Date: Jul 2004
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2008-01-17          150299


In omnia paratus. Numquam non paratus. Yes I carry in the woods too(auto). Where I am there are no areas large enough to really get really lost for more than an hour or so. I watch the news and see shootings at schools, religoius facilities etc. Heck I carry to church. I guess most us live somewhere a bit rural but in the concrete jungle, it is often a felony to carry in the large parks when hiking and often the only predators are rabid raccoons and people. I say leave the I-pod at home. I just cannot be comfortable with things in my ears preventing me from hearing my surroundings. Mace, electric stunner, knife, some martial arts training on top of all the things previously mentioned. ....

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yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004
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2008-01-17          150305


Murf:
I didn't think they let you walk around in Canada with a pistol even in the remote North. I thought most of your gun rights had be taken away.

Of the dozen or so handguns that I have, I also have a S&W 422. It is prone to jamming particularly when shooting Remington and other cheap .22 LR ammo. It seems to work best with CCI Stingers. My wife used it during our course getting a CCW. I had schooled her on how to work it when it jammed and how to clear it. It jammed during her range time and she impressed the instructor. She outshot many of the guys during our qualification with it. ....

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randywatson
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 109 texas
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2008-01-17          150306


In addition to all the above here's mine, I agree with most as to what to carry, (whatever you are comfortable with) and willing to use gun,knife, walking stick, mace, stun, and the info on getting lost etc..., the biggest thing is awareness and confidence,

Human and animal predators each sense weakness or weak will and will act accordingly,

1. when approached frontally make and maintain eye contact, greet with hello and keep going. Dont fall into a conversation or fall for the "do you have the time? match? whatever" it is the oldest trick in the book to allow them to distract and evaluate you while seeming harmless.

after speaking pass by, and be aware if they keep moving, or stop behind you. If they do stop or follow, turn and confront directly, do not allow to follow without them knowing you are aware and willing to defend yourself.

2 if from behind and it is obvious they do not intend to pass, step to the side, and allow to pass while speaking and making eye contact, be aware if pacing you to the rear or in front, could precipitate an attack.

3 If you have not developed an combat mindset, then do so or be prepared to go down without a fight and hope the predator dont eat you.

If attacked or even had your safety zone violated react immediately, fight, flight, do not freeze, that is what they want.

repel the assault, gain ground, counter assault.

develop a plan of action for yourself and family, IE. They need to know to run, hide, etc in threatening situation if you need to stay to repell the assault

Jus my 2 cents worth.

....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7160 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2008-01-17          150312


Quote:
Originally Posted by yooperpete | view 150305
Murf: I didn't think they let you walk around in Canada with a pistol even in the remote North.I thought most of your gun rights had be taken away.


For the most part you're right, but we both travel a lot, and the restrictions don't apply to all, if you have the right (shiny metallic usually ;) ) credentials you can still carry no problem.

I was warned about the jamming possibility when I purchased it, but was also told that quality rounds and keeping it clean would virtually eliminate the problem. Since neither one of those items are issues with me I've never had a problem with it. I've got 2 422's, the first one I bought has a laser sight on it, and probably has (without exaggeration) 10,000 rounds through it without a single jam yet.

I had one fella at the gun club tell her she might as well carry pepper spray as "that pea shooter". She put all 12 into a 6" circle at 50' almost as fast as she could squeeze the trigger then she turned to him and told him she didn't think pepper spray would be that accurate or effective from 50'. He didn't say word, he just walked away grinning.

Best of luck. ....

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harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1539 Moravia, NY
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2008-01-17          150316


I'm ah thinkin that several .22 rimfire holes would tend to remove any romatic inclinations a pervert might have.

I have been to parks where firearms are banned and I still carry Large calibers CONCEALED in the back country.

I agree with the more than one person thought and if going as a couple I would go armed with a minimum of my S&W 642 .38spl (as long as not in large predator country)in a jacket pocket and it would be in my grip at anytime a stranger approaches. And I WOULD NEVER PULL MY HAND OUT TO SHAKE HANDS! Even when hunting the 642 is usually in a very accessible pocket.

I carry semi autos hunting all the time .45 ACP for close in coyote work and AR15 or rifle for longer range. Both have fast follow up shoots. ....

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2652 NorthWest NJ
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2008-01-17          150317


Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisCTB | view 150281
....short of not carrying a gun how can you stay safe when hiking on the trails?


Do any of you go hiking unarmed? I always have on the Applachian trail here in NJ, besides the recent rash of killings by weirdos, my biggest concern was bears. ....

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yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan
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2008-01-17          150320


Most of the time I go unarmed, while the majority of my hiking is on regular trails not far from my Condo. Black bears are know to be about 5 miles away from my location and have yet to see one. Likewise some cougars have been sighted about that distance away. Most of them are as scared of you as you are of them. Be careful of being in the area of their offs-spring, that gets their dander up. These are all in Northern lower Michigan. For bear, the minimum would be a .40 S&W/.45ACP or .45LC.

In da U.P. it is wild and remote and one could get really lost for a long, long time. In those cases, I take extra gear and the .454 Casull(that can handle anything in North America).

I read that NJ has a real problem with bear populations and the tree huggers that stopped the hunt. Another consideration is a flare pistol with mini 12 gauge shells shooting capsicum rounds (rock salt and mace). It is short range but was told it will take a grizz down, however, you need to run because when it gets back up it is really pissed. I have one of those and it must be about 10 years old now. Don't know if the ammo gets bad. Should try it on somebody! ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2008-01-17          150321


Strangely enough my problems have not when hiking, but flying!

I like to fly into remote lakes a few miles back off the beaten path just north of here, I can be on a lake which is a couple of days by canoe from the nearest road and be back home in time for lunch if nothing is biting.

Problem is, the guys growing dope up there, it's rampant because they're cracking down on the 'grow ops' and want to be just out past air patrols, nosy neighbours, and such.

One more than one occasion I spotted a camouflaged camp on shore only as I did my final 'low & over' before landing and hastily decided to look for a new spot.

Best of luck. ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5223 South Carolina
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2008-01-17          150322


Quote:
Originally Posted by kwschumm | view 150284
I've done this ever since a friend of mine told a storyabout being stalked by a cougar after hiking to a remotemountain lake to do some fishing. .40



Ken, how did your friend know they were being stalked by a cougar? Was it that open in it's stalking? kt ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
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2008-01-17          150323


Quote:
Originally Posted by kthompson | view 150322
Ken, how did your friend know they were being stalked by a cougar? Was it that open in it's stalking? kt


The sound it made when it "meowed" sent a chill up his spine. ....

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kwschumm
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2008-01-17          150324


Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisCTB | view 150317
Do any of you go hiking unarmed?I always have on the Applachian trail here in NJ,besides the recent rash of killings by weirdos, my biggest concern was bears.


I expect a good, stout walking stick could do some damage up close. ....

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
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2008-01-17          150328


I at least always take a fixed blade ski knife I got from relatives in Sweden when I was a little kid. I think a heavy hardwood walking stick would also be beneficial.

I also always go with my chocolat lab, he is of course no real threat, but some people are less familiar with the chocolat variety and he is young, lean and alert.

We usually go as a family, and it is really remote where we go hiking, we have usually tried to avoid the more heavily traveled trails. May need to change that.



....

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denwood
Join Date: Jul 2004
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2008-01-17          150334


You never want to show up to a gunfight with a knife. I understand New Jersey is somewhat of a police state, and it is mostly criminals that carry concealed weapons as they make it extremely diffucult for law abiding citizens to get a permit. I have heard you can get one if you are well connected. ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
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2008-01-17          150339


Dennis CTB,

Do any of you go hiking unarmed? -- Dennis CTB

Heck, I don't even go shopping while unarmed. I've had a concealed weapon permit for a number of years now.

We had a gas station attendant get his head blown off by a young kid, armed with a 12 gauge shotgun. Why? The station attendant refused to sell him cigarettes, so the kid came back to settle the argument. The station attendant lost the argument.

I vowed to myself that should I ever be in a position to lend a helping hand, I would. From that day forward, I've carried a concealed weapon on me.

The station attendant was a very good friend of mine. He left behind a wife and two children, both under the age of 3. He was a very good man. If ever I am in a position to prevent such a crime, I'll do my very best to help save an innocent life.

Joel ....

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kleinchris
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 269 Westminster, Texas
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2008-01-17          150342


Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisCTB | view 150281
With the recent increase in hiking homicides, short of not hiking or carrying a gun how can you stay safe when hiking on the trails?


I really doubt there has been an increase in hiking homicides. I believe you might hear more about cases when it happens because of our media based country... but is it necessary to arm yourself when you take a hike? No. Come on guys- most of the posts on this topic are bordering on paranoa.
Before anybody shoots backs at me on this one (no pun intended), know that I am a gun owner and I have been involved with professional camping for 20 years. I have never taken anything more powerful than bear mace on a hike. Never needed it either.
Go back and read these posts and tell me that this isnt an overeaction to a very simple question about homicides somewhere while hiking.

We hear about stuff more than we used to- thats it. Baby abductions are not on the rise- we just get them crammed down our throats when it does happen.

How do you stay safe on the trail? A few people have touched on it- Be prepared. One of the best books I own is the Boy Scout Handbook.- Best toilet book ever printed. Carry a pocket knife, wear comfortable shoes or boots- keep an extra pair of socks on a ziplock. Tell people where you are going. Sign the trail head log. Make donations to your local Search and Rescue- or better yet volunteer. (Karma kicks ass.) Cell phones are pretty popular these days. So are GPS devices. I've left a note on my windshield- "If this car is here on Monday after sun down..."

If you really want to take a gun on your hike, do it because it's your right as a citezen, not because our country is overun with crazed stalkers and rabid racoons.


....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
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2008-01-17          150343


Somewhere in the Boy Scout Manual it says "Be prepared". Isn't carrying a sidearm the very definition of being prepared? A gun isn't only for defense, if you get lost it can be used to hunt and to signal for help. And if you happen to be hiking in a real dangerous area, say downtown Portland, it is real comforting to have :)

BTW, thanks for reminding me, I've been wanting to pick up a copy of the Boy Scout manual for awhile now. ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
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2008-01-17          150344


Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisCTB | view 150328
I also always go with my chocolat lab,he is of course no real threat,but some people are less familiar with the chocolat variety and he is young, lean and alert.


Dennis I doubt there is an easier going breed than the Golden Retreiver at least the one we had. Yet I have heard him give the low rumble growl to a person as a friendly warning. Got my attention, think it did the person he meant it for. My guess is your lab, if he found his family showing real signs of fear or being threaten would surprise you.

They do make walking sticks with swords or knife points built in. Not sure of the quality. For our area the killings seem to be more on the line Joel told about or they knew each other. Not all, but most. About 5 years ago a good friend had a grand daughter and her small child kidnapped from the parking lot of a store her military husband and her brother went into to buy snacks and when they returned them and the car was gone. She was rapped and killed with the baby just tossed in a field. At least the state of NC had a quick find of the killer and a quick trial ( a matter of a few months not years). More than likely the piece of trash is still alive waiting on the execution so the bleeding hearts can, not sure what they can be. More trash to me. kt ....

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denwood
Join Date: Jul 2004
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2008-01-17          150351


I haven't seen a post saying that because they see more violence they are going to carry a gun, they just have carried and do. I carry more often than I used to but I don't play the odds. Every day when I wake up I know there are more people in this country than the day before. More good people, more bad people, so on a per capita basis, there may not be more murders, but on sheer numbers it would make sense. You hear about it, you want to be prepared. Not knowing it could be a danger is ignorance. The media brings dangers to light however small the risk. I have had homeowners insurance for all the years I have owned a home and never needed it but I wouldn't be without it knowing that there is only a 1 in a million chance my home will burn down. I can only imagine how sorry I would be if I needed a weapon to protect my family and didn't have one. You cannot turn back the hands of time. ....

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randywatson
Join Date: Apr 2007
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2008-01-18          150363


Sounds like most are in agreement, one last thought from me, anyone who does not believe in self defense then don't carry or it will be taken and used against you.

but if you dont believe remember, McDonalds in CA, Luby's in Killeen TX, VA Tech, Tyler TX Courthouse, Columbine CO, etc...predators prefer unarmed victims and also strike at their convience, think...lion, zebra, waterhole. Or the truck driver in LA at the redlight.

last but not least, my motto in this life for many things, I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. ....

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yooperpete
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2008-01-18          150365


Just remember that the gal that was recently killed hiking in Georgia by Mr. Hilton had a large dog and some martial arts belt. The news said a "Blue Belt". I'm not into that stuff so don't know if that is correct nor what level of skill it took. The news also indicated that she was alive for several days before she was killed. ....

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kthompson
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2008-01-18          150393


YP, on the girl in Goergia, if she had a large dog and if she knew martial arts and she was killed, does it not make you wonder what it would have taken to protect her? It would seem if she was in as good of shape as a runner as she was suppose to be she could have even out ran the guy if he did not surprise her or lay trap or such. If any of those happen, would she been able to use the gun? Why would any woman do such by her self as she did amazes me. kt
....

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randywatson
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2008-01-18          150396


It goes to awareness and preparedness, IE combat mindset...

all the training and equipment in the world does not turn a sheep into a guard dog. You can put body armor on and implant sharp teeth into a sheep, it still wont guard the flock.

If you think you can reason or compromise out of being a victim then you will try that, and fail. Think of a gazelle reasoning with a cheetah

That being said, not all are guard dogs, that is why those among us who are must stand for those who are not...

....

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Murf
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2008-01-18          150398


I mentioned earlier about problems on fly in fishing trips.

On one such trip I was approached (out on the lake) by 3 guys in a canoe, they were not dressed like, and did not look like typical campers or canoe trippers.

When they got close one of them asked if I was a cop, I said no, he then asked why I was wearing a gun, I replied that it was in case of an emergency.

They wished me good luck fishing and paddled away. I doubt that was their original intention.

I had another (though VERY different) incident a few years back where I had briefly parked my truck with the windows down and went in to a store for a moment. On the dash & console were several items that should not have been left so visible, namely a GPS unit & a cell phone. My pooch 'Deputy Dog' was also riding shotgun.

When I came out of the truck there was a man trying to offer assistance to an obviously injured young man, he was bleeding pretty good from his right arm. He was claiming my dog had 'attacked' him as he went by. I was a little nervous until I got into the truck to check that the dog was OK.

I spotted several drops of blood on the console, dash and drivers seat.

When the Police arrived (I called them) the young man explained that he was walking past and the dog lunged out at him. I showed the cop the blood drops in the truck.

Neither I nor the dog were in any trouble, the young lad was 'known to police' already.

Bottom line, a careless moment would have cost me a thousand bucks or so, maybe the whole truck had the dog not been there.

It's like buying lottery tickets, you never know.

Best of luck. ....

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randywatson
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 109 texas
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2008-01-18          150400


Murf,

gotta love that dog....

re the other, absolutely right on that one too, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure... ....

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2652 NorthWest NJ
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2008-01-18          150401


Quote:
Originally Posted by randywatson | view 150396
It goes to awareness and preparedness, IE combat mindset.....


Randy,

You are so right. Years ago I worked in NYC , I had a female co worker who was mugged three times!

Why? Because when she walked around she acted like a friendly unsuspecting out of towner. A lamb among wolves.

I think in the GA case the girl let her guard down because he had a dog also and she let her dog loose to play with his. Bad assumption that someone who owns a dog is safe!

....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5223 South Carolina
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2008-01-18          150415


When my wife and I were clearing our lot we often ran to town to pick up items or just for food during lunch. I often sat on the pickup tailgate with our Golden Retreiver while she went in a store. It amazed me how many ladies would come over smiling and pet him and talk. Without the dog those same ladies would have thought danger, man sitting in parking lot waiting for ???

Hey EW, since it is slow time of year for you, get a cute dog, park in large store parking lot and sit on tailgate petting the dog. No doubt you will soon be looked at by many ladies as they wonder what the frozen, snow covered bump is. Do send pictures. ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2008-01-18          150423


Just an interesting bit of information to add to this discussion.

The other night on the local news, there was a law enforcement officer on who was doing a public service announcement.

The Concealed Carry Weapons course is scheduled for the third Tuesday of each month, in the basement of the County Courthouse. Price is 25 dollars.

Original applicants must take first take a test. If the test is passed, they must then go through fingerprinting, background check, and a photo session. The 25 dollar fee includes only the testing process. The background check, photo, fingerprinting, etc....runs approximately 50 dollars extra.

For those who renew their CCW permits, only a 25 dollar fee is required. The permit is good for three years.

5861 North Dakotans currently have Concealed Carry Weapons permits. This is approximately 1% of the total State population.

North Dakota is a SHALL ISSUE State. This means that any applicant who meets the requirements of the test and background check, MUST be issued a concealed weapons permit. Our county law enforcement officials do not have the authority to pick and choose from among the applicants, as is the case in many other States.

Joel ....

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harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1539 Moravia, NY
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2008-01-18          150427


I do not consider anyones post paraniod. I believe most show good sound sense.

40 years ago, as a teenager, I used to hitchhike all over. I could get from FT Dix, NJ to upstate NY almost as quick as a non stop ride. Girls could hitchhike also. I would not even think about it today let along pick one up.

Perverts have become more pervasive and who knows how many killers are loose with our liberal judges.

I choose not to be a victim. ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5223 South Carolina
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2008-01-21          150494


Happened across this and thought some of you may like. It does not address the exact issue.kt

U.S. Senate: We want people packing heat in parks

Posted: Friday, January 11, 2008 at 12:00 p.m.

WASHINGTON (AP) - Nearly half the Senate wants to allow people to carry guns into national parks and wildlife refuges. Forty-seven lawmakers signed a letter asking the interior secretary to lift restrictions that prevent citizens from carrying firearms onto lands managed by the National Park Service and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. The National Park Service says the Reagan-era restrictions were put in place for public safety and to protect wildlife. A park official says before the rules were adopted, "people would go out and shoot wildlife." He says he's worried if people are packing heat in the nation's parks, it could lead to accidents. The lawmakers write in their letter that the current regulations "infringe on the rights of law-abiding gun owners" who want to take firearms on or across federal land. The office of the Interior secretary says officials are reviewing the letter.

(Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

....

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DenisS
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 367 NJ
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2008-01-22          150576


Consider a flare gun. ....

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ejkessler
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 95 Northern CT
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2008-02-06          151140


I used to carry a pistol at all times. I no longer own one for my own reasons, but I spend a lot of time outdoors, hiking, canoing and biking and always have a substantial Dozier knife (horizontal kydex sheath) readily available, a quality multi tool (leatherman), a good pocket knife (case), compass and quality lighter (weatherproof butane), matches, flashlight (surefire), and a walking stick. I am trying to no longer be afraid of being afraid. Preparedness vs. paranoia. If I go down then so be it, but I will try and do some considerable damage before I do. FYI, Black bears don't bother people. I have heard there has been only one reported death by one to a human in North America in over a hundred years. That info may be incorrect and if it is I stand corrected. Cougars and brown bears can be a legitimate threat and can understand the concern there. Though I have also been told that most guides in Alaska will use mace on a bear before a firearm. Most of all pay attention. Good luck to you all and hope you never have the need to have to use any of these self-defense strategies. ....

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kingjl
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 4 Arkansas
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2008-02-10          151227


I shot on a ROTC pistol team in college. After college, I attended good self defense training programs since I was in a job at risk for obtaining a 45 caliber nostril. Over the years, my weapon has been very helpful four times. The first time was on a quail hunt when a feral sow with piglets started to disembowel my Brittany spaniels. A 9mm to the brain ended that. The second and third time a hand on a licensed concealed holstered weapon and good training avoided an assault. The fourth was this last spring when a 5 foot diamondback let me get to close and a .40 S&W got me out of a jam. The training is just as important as the weapon. Recognition and avoidance of trouble is important but having the skills to deal with it is paramount. I believe Capt. Woodrow F. Call said it best,"It's better to have it (gun) and not need it than to need it and not have it." ....

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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2008-08-21          156230


Dennis S
Hit it on the head. I used to do that all the time. Better than any pistol if you cant put six rounds in a circle at 50 foot! One flare gun round within 20 foot will do the trick at any distance. Legal in most places, after all, it is used for if you get lost?
Dog U say? LOL. All you police officers out there should be able to agree that 1 police dog is about the same as 5 officers as for intimidation! I once witnessed 6 officers surrounded in a half circle a young man who was yelling, (which one first, Ill take ya all!) He was not going down with out a fight (this was before pepepr spray, stun gun etc.) The cannine officer pulls up, gets out with his partner and within 6 seconds the man was on the ground doing what ever the officers wanted! The dog never came off the lead! ....

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