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John Deere 4100 HST won t move

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acerguy
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 69 Wisconsin
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2007-12-18          149398


Howdy. I've had my 4100 for about 4 years and it's been a great machine. Has about 660 hours on it...I've put on less than 100 of them. Lately I had been noticing that it seemed to be lacking power...having difficulty pushing the snow around. I also noticed that it was getting harder and harder to steer. Then this past weeked it got worse and worse until it basically quit moving. I couldn't even back it into the shed. The engine is running fine, just that the HST makes a lot of noise and barely moving the vehicle. I thought maybe it was drastically low on Hydro fluid but I checked yesterday and it was still in the "XXX" zone on the dip stick. I'll top it off tonight to see if that helps but I'm worried that this may be a more $$$$$ problem! Any ideas? Thanks!

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
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2007-12-18          149399


Acerguy,

You didn't mention anything about the last time you checked or changed your hydraulic filters.

Your fluid level is very important, but plugged filters and sump screens can often cause the same problems.

I would suggest a complete service on your hydraulic system. Depending upon when you last changed your hydraulic fluid, I would also consider doing that.

Joel ....

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acerguy
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2007-12-18          149400


Thanks for the lightening quick reply! :) Yeah, I have wondered if it could be a plugged filter. To be honest, I haven't changed it as it was done just before I bought it. I'm sure it's due. I'll give that a try and report back. Thanks!

Boy, I could use a heated garage right about now.... ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
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2007-12-18          149401


Acerguy,

You mentioned something that could be a part of the problem.

It's cold this time of year. If you had any moisture in your hydraulic fluid, it's possible that the water has frozen and consequently turned to ice crystals, which will quickly plug up your hydraulic pump's filter.

Changing the filter might work for a short amount of time. If you find that this problem shows up again in the near future, you'll know that it's probably time to completely drain and replace your hydraulic fluid.

If you have any problems, please check back with us. We have a good number of helpful people who might have other suggestions for you.

Joel ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2007-12-18          149402


Are the stering and hydro systems on the same circuit? Generally on CUTs I have found they are a fully separate systems. ....

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candoarms
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2007-12-18          149411


Earthwrks,

There are two separate hydraulic circuits involved here, but there are elements common to both.

There is only one hydraulic fluid reservoir, though most tractors have several drain points. All drain plugs must be removed when draining the fluid.

The hydraulic pump is common to both circuits (drive and steering), as is the hydraulic filter.

When all hydraulics seem to fail, it's a sure sign that some component common to both circuits is at fault. Most commonly this will be the filter, pump, or fluid level.....or even a combination of all three.

Joel ....

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acerguy
Join Date: May 2004
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2007-12-18          149412


Well, I stopped by the local part supply and will have the hydro filter tomorrow. Unfortunately, they don't have the exact rating of hydro oil that JD calls for in the temps I'm dealing with (cold!) so I may have to make a trip to the dealer anyhow. I figure I'll just go ahead and do a complete drain of the system. You're right about multiple drain points; at least 4...PLUS the filter! I won't get to it until this weekend but will be sure to report back. Again, thanks for all the responses. By the way, thanks to JD for putting the manual on line...yes, I have a paper copy but this was even better. ....


Link:   4100 manual

 
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John Deere 4100 HST won t move

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2007-12-18          149414


Acerguy,

You'll also want to check the screen on your pump intake (sump screen), which is located in the hydraulic fluid reservoir. Your manual should point this out.

If that screen is plugged up with debris, it will prevent fluid from getting to your pump, causing cavitation, noise, and poor performance. This can also destroy your pump.

It is generally not necessary to replace this screen. It can be cleaned off with diesel fuel, or kerosene, and then reinserted.

I'm all but certain that these services will cure your problem.

Joel ....

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acerguy
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2007-12-19          149420


That's what I'm hoping for...that the screen/filter is clogged....not that my hydro pump is destroyed! ....

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candoarms
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2007-12-19          149421


Acerguy,

I don't know why my previous message didn't post......so I'll try again.

Please subscribe to Brendan Casey's free newsletter, Insider Secrets to Hydraulics. It's free. No strings attached.

Joel ....


Link:   Insider Secrets to Hydraulics

 
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acerguy
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2007-12-19          149423


Thanks. I'll check it out. ....

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John Deere 4100 HST won t move

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2007-12-19          149425


My 4115 is starting to slow down in the same manner. Just doesn't seem as brisk in the HST response.

I am going to drain the sump, clean the screen and replace the filter to see if that will help.

....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2007-12-19          149427


Mark, I just noticed your location under your avatar.

How long ago did you move to "Norhtenr" Nevada?

Inquiring minds and all....... ;)


Best of luck. ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2007-12-19          149428


I moved here 7 yeasr ago, but i didn't have room in the van for the speell checkre.

Thanks for the heads up Mufr. ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2007-12-19          149456


If you are going to buy the oil from the Deere dealer, I would strongly suggest you get the Low Viscosity Hygard. It will work much better in cold weather and that is the preferred oil Deere likes. ....

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John Deere 4100 HST won t move

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bloggins
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 103 Kingston, Ontario
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2007-12-19          149457


My SCUT CASE had no power in Forward or Reverse, but after closer inspection, I noticed that the floor pedal mounting bracket was flexing ever so slightly. One bolt had fallen off, with the remaining bolt was very loose. After replacing and tightening the two bolts it's as good a new. ....

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John Deere 4100 HST won t move

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bvance
Join Date: Jul 2004
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2007-12-19          149462


Makr,

Very clever and funny response to Murf. I love your sense of humor and I know Murf will too when he sees it! Thanks for giving me a good laugh after a very stressful day!

Brian ....

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acerguy
Join Date: May 2004
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2007-12-20          149472


Bloggins, you bring up a good point. I'll be sure to check out some of the physical connections as well. I've already had one scary moment a year or so ago when a clevis pin fell out of the pedal assembly....just moments after I was working near the top of a 6' wall where I might not have gotten to the brake quick enough and could have gone over!

And Chief, the manual recommends the J20D (the "D" being the operative term here). My local Auto store only has the J20C equivalent. So, yeah, I'm heading up to the dealer this afternoon. Thanks again for all the responses! ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2007-12-20          149479


BVance..... aw shucks, twernt nuthin'.

Chief..... where you been??? ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2007-12-20          149481


Mark IS very funny, apparently he had a '7 year itch' too...

It seems he's recently moved from "Norhtenr" to Northern Nevada. ;)

Best of luck.

....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2007-12-20          149482


Yup, just moved yesterday.........

Acerguy..... regular Hy-Gard is rated down to about 0 degrees F. Plenty for most places.

Low-Vis has a max of about 100 F. Gets hotter than that around here every summer

The real point is that there is a lot less leak-down with the hydraulic system in the summertime with regular HY-Gard in the sump. It works better for me. ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2007-12-20          149490


Season's greetings and a Merry Christmas to all.

Mark, if I told you...........you wouldn't believe me. I'll just say our entire family is enduring a horrible tribulation. Kinda had my mind elsewhere and haven't been of the mind to post much.



....

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Hettric
Join Date: Mar 2004
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2007-12-20          149492


Drankin, very timely comment on hy-gard oil. I was just going to ask what is the part # for low viscosity hy-gard. I just recieved some in a parts order, #ty6354, purple label, does not say on lable if low viscosity. Dealer sent it, as I could not find any listing on the JD Parts web site.
Thanks ....

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John Deere 4100 HST won t move

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2007-12-20          149494


The Low Viscosity Hygard is rated JDM J20D

https://jdparts.deere.com/partsmkt/document/english/pmac/4968_fb_HyGardsTransmissionHydraulic.htm ....


Link:   Deere Fluid

 
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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2007-12-20          149498


Try this link........ ....


Link:   

Click Here


 
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acerguy
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2007-12-23          149574


Well...got the hydro fluid/filter changed today, cleaned the pre-screen but it didn't seem to help much...a little...but not much :( Upon advice of the dealer I did use the Low Visc. Hy Guard. It was definitely NOT what was in there before. What I drained out was a red hydro fluid and the L.V. Hy Guard looks more like motor oil. The steering seemed a bit better but the FEL seemed sluggish and I basically can't use the high range. The tranny makes a lot of noise under load. Soooo..... it looks like it may be more serious. Any idea what I'm looking at? ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2007-12-23          149576


The red fluid may have been automatic trans fluid, and may or may or may not be an indication of problems the previous owner had.

I have a hunch that it's not pump problem per se, but a mechanical one---how that effects the steering---dunno.

It sounds like something is bound up either in the trans or the rear axle.

If it's the trans it may be a shifter fork that is bent or broken and is allowing two differnt gear sets to engage so it's internally fighting itself.

If it's the rear axle and it's bound up it could be the ring-and-pinion that is shattered or broke and a tooth or pieces are jamming either the pinion itself or caught in the diffeential spider gears.

It could also be brakes that haven't released and the sound you hear is the pump and the brakes dragging (my blue does that sometimes).

The reddish fluid may have reacted with the brake pads and caused them to swell preventing movement and the subsequent noises.

Could also be a shattered locking differential mechanism that has spread pieces throughout.

A bad bearing in the trans could also cause binding of gears.

What happens when you put it in neutral and try to push it a few feet either way? You may have to depress the clutch to free it from the hydro pump.


Is it 4wd? There might be somtheing in the front axle binding up. See if you can disengage the front and try rocking it back and forth for a few feet. ....

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acerguy
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2007-12-23          149578


I should have lead off my previous post with some more information. :) Before changing the filter, I went ahead and started it up to move it to a flatter/dryer part of the driveway. It started up no problem and went into gear and drove sort of normally in low range. I let the system warm up a little before draining everything. After I refilled the system I started things up and initially everything seemed about right. Like I said, the steering seemed better and it drove OK, again, in low range. So I drove it around a little to move some of the snow off the driveway and it seemed to start getting sluggish. I tried HI range and it made a lot of whining and basically wouldn't go. If Perhaps as things warm up, the fluid gets less viscous and it loses power? I parked it as it was starting some nice freezing rain and I didn't want to have it stop moving at the bottom of our drive! I may go out and experiment a bit with it more today. ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
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2007-12-23          149579


Acerguy,

Well, there's little doubt that your tractor was due for a good servicing.

The fact that your tractor seems to move OK in low range tells me that you might have a brake problem.

You might be able to test this theory by jacking the rear tires off the ground and blocking it up. With the tractor in neutral, you should be able to turn the rear wheels by hand. If they don't turn, or turn very hard -- you'll then know that you have a problem, as well as where it might be.

I have no idea how to go about checking and adjusting the brakes on your tractor. You'll have to refer to your manual, or possibly take it to a dealer for servicing.

Joel ....

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acerguy
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2007-12-23          149580


Thanks for the replies, guys. I'm going to bundle up and see if I can move some of the new snow around. And I'll try jacking it up to check if the wheels can move. To paraphrase the "Terminator"..."I'll be back!" :) ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2007-12-24          149601


Yes, viscosity does change as the fluid heats up. That is exactly why I don't use low-vis. Once the fluid has warmed, the transmission has no idea what the temp is outside....assuming you are not operating at 50 below.

Also... proper tractor hydro fluids come in all colors, including orange and red.

What you are describing is the same as if you were to jam the FEL to some extreme and then try to drive in high range at the same time.

I think you are bleeding pressure somewhere. Some hydraulic valve could be jammed open.... possibly a lever is stuck.... or a brake is dragging...... or the parking brake mechanical linkage is jammed.... or the system pressure relief valve is stuck.

Whatever.... I doubt that you have a serious mechanical issue. I think when you get to the bottom of this it will be a fairly simple fix.

....

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John Deere 4100 HST won t move

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2007-12-24          149603


Acerguy,

Have you tried systematically removing items in the hydraulic circuit such as the FEL (is what I would start with) to see if the symptoms improve or disappear? I am not sure what else you may have installed on the tractor that is part of or interacts with the hydraulic system but the idea is to try and eliminate everything but the bare/basic tractor systems to identify and isolate the problem. As Mark mentioned, a sticking or leaking spoil valve on the FEL or a power beyond kit valve or similar item could be eating up the hydaulic pump output. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2007-12-24          149604


Chief he's having problems with the drive system (and the steering)--the drive system is separate from the accessory system and the hitch isn't it? My blue is all separate. ....

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hardwood
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2007-12-24          149605


If the basic design is similar to the 42-4400 series the hydro pump is totally seperate from the hydraulic system pump, both drawing their needs seperatly from the sump. It seems a million to one that both the hydro pump and the hydraulic system pump or pumps would fail at the same time.
Do either systems have a jerky feeling under load as if air were getting into the suction side of the pumps? It doesn't seem likely that a stuck loader spool/bypass/relief, would affect the hydro drive or vicea versa. In my thinking it boils down to some reason that the pumps are starved for fluid, which without a mechanical restriction is not likely with low vis. I'm as stumped as the rest, but just throwing out some possibilitys. Incidentally, the dealership I have my service work done at just won't put anything but low vis in summer or winter. I agree, thin as rainwater, but so far so good. Frank. ....

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acerguy
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2007-12-24          149607


Wow! Thanks for all the responses. So I took it out today and had the same results...runs sorta "OK" when it's cold and in LOW range but after a few minutes will barely get out of it's own way and the transmission making lots of noise under load. I did jack it up and both rear wheels move freely.

Now that you mention it, my FEL has been acting a bit weird lately but, frankly, I'd been thinking it's more the linkage for the lever; I have to move it "extra far" side to side to get it to do what it's supposed to do. So maybe that has something to do with it. To be honest, I've never taken my FEL off...it's so darn handy I use it all the time. I'll be off visiting family for Christmas (you know, over the river and through the woods) so I won't get back to it until Thursday at the earliest but will try pulling the lines for the FEL and see what happens. Oh, and the FEL is the only attachment I have.

The 3PH seems to work just fine no matter what.

The power steering has, since I bought it, always been a little quirky; when mowing along a sideslope, I pretty much have to constantly crank in a little countersteer to keep the thing going straight. But then recently it seemed to take more effort to steer, especially when cold. Today, as I was paying particular attention to it, it seemed like the power steering would come and go; it would be fine one moment and difficult the next...particularly if it was under load.

Again, I have changed the filter, filled it with 3.3gal of fluid (checked the level today and it was spot on) and I cleaned the pre-filter thoughougly.

Sorry for the long post but I'm just trying to get more clues out there. Again, thanks for all the responses! Merry Christmas everyone and I'll report back in later in the week.

Keith ....

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bloggins
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2007-12-24          149610


Do you have to remove the FEL? Or, park it on a level surface fully lowered and disconnect the FEL lines, then drive the tractor as if you were plowing you should notice the difference in power if the FEL actuator is to blame. I have 2 spin-on filters on my tractors transmission, you just have one? ....

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Chief
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2007-12-24          149611


From what I have been able to gather the 4100 has a transaxle oil filter but no separate dedicated hydraulic pump filter. Is that correct? I was thinking that perhaps something somehow is causing the oil to become aerated which can degrade and cause problems with the hydrostatic drive system. Is the hydrostatic drive whinning or making more noise than usual?

On the 4200 and up I believe they all have a separate hydraulic suction filter in addition to a hydrostatic system filter. ....

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acerguy
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2007-12-25          149613


Yes, there is just the one filter (and the pre-filter screen). And yes the hydrostatic drive is making more noise than usual under what should be negligable load. I'm used to it making a whining noise for a moment or two when I do something like start up in HIGH range up a grade, but now it's that same noise under loads that shouldn't be a problem at all. The noise comes from the front of the tractor. No noise when it's not moving. Unfortunately, I don't have anything other than the owner's manual and that is somewhat limited in it's maintanance/repair information. I don't know enough about how the HST works but my instinct tells me that the hydraulic system is not getting enough pressure. ....

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earthwrks
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2007-12-25          149615


The hydro systems when working properly hardly make any noise. The groaning sound you hear is due to something dragging or lugging. Bascially the hydro pump consists of finger-size pistons arranged in a circle (think: a revolver pistol). Like the pistol, only one piston at a time is making pressure while the ones before and aft are either giving up the pressure or preparing making it. The ends of the pistons have a swiveling foot similar to a C-clamp. The foot rides against a swash plate which is a flat metal ring. The ring changes attitude by the input from the go-pedal. A pressure called "charge" keps the psitons against the swash plate so that don't don't bounce around inside. In neutral the pistons don't move; their feet glide happily against the swash plate. Only when you move the go-pedal does the swash plate make them in progression start moving. When they move they make pressure and volume. The pressure remains relatively constant. The volume however is a result of how far they move back and forth at a given speed which is why you set the throttle and leave it.

(For an example of the theory picture a tube filled with oil. Put a finger in one end of the tube all the way. Then take another finger and push it in--the other finger wants to back out due to pressure. So in simplistic terms in a hydro system all you are doing is remotely transferring rottaional effort (pressure) from one unit to another via a hose to get rotational power.

The hydro motor is bascally a pump in reverse except the motor swash plate is not moveable. As pressure fro,m the pump is transferred to the pistons in the motor, the piston ramps, or is forced away from the center of swash plate and results in rotational power. To keep the process going, all the other pistons in the circle take get their turn to make power.

Basically gear pumps and motors sort of work the same way, except it's the meshing teeth on the gears that are making pressure to force the oil away. At the motor end, it's the teeth that the oil forces against and pushes them away from each other---like a water wheel.

So back to the noise, the grunting is coming from something binding or lugging the system and it is letting you know.

Or POSSIBLY it's air in the system that is cavitating then "exploding" inside the pump hence the noise (this is typical of gear pumps but not from piston pumps according to my experience). If enough air gets in the system it simply won't work anymore because there is no charge pressure. ....

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kthompson
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2007-12-26          149628


acerguy,
Did you check out the front axle also to see if those tires turn freely as EW suggested? ....

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acerguy
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2007-12-27          149660


earthwrks: Thanks for the great explaination! Boy, does anyone know if there is a more detailed schematic of the 4100 series on line? As I stated before, the "owners manual" is not that useful. :( If it was air in the system, wouldn't have draining and refilling the system as I've done helped that? If not, how does one go about "burping" that baby?

kthompson: No, I haven't checked if the front axle was somehow dragging yet although I did experiment with taking it in and out of 4WD (to no effect).

Another 2 inches of snow last night with 4-6 called for tomorrow night. I'm getting a little nervous!

....

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earthwrks
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2007-12-27          149663


IMHO you have to bleed every component at its OUT port or fitting to really get all the air out. Cylinders are especially hard to bleed if air got in them. The hydrostat may be a different story. And if there was air in the sytem at any given point, yes that air MAY be displaced and find it's way into the reservoir. But therein lies the other issue--the air bubbles don't just evaporate like fumes, but rather have to slowly settle up and give up their air. So if there were air bubbles in the oil BEFORE they settled out they get recycled and cause more cavitation which foams the oil even more. ....

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DRankin
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2007-12-27          149666


I have been studying the schematics for the 4110/4115. They are almost identical to the 4100.

I really doubt you have an air problem. Based on what you have already said, I would get a can of Super Lube... a Deere recommended spray lubricant..... and I would hose down every moving part of the FEL SCV controls.

I would also get under the tractor and hose down the HST control pedals. While under there I would check to see if any of the high pressure metal lines have gotten pinched by a stump of rock.

Important Question: Is your tractor equipped with a rear hydraulic remote, such as might run a backhoe or a log splitter? ....

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acerguy
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2007-12-27          149668


Nope. No rear remote. I did not notice any obvious pinched lines but will go take another hard look this afternoon. I did check the function of the pedals though while I was draining the system and they seemed to be working correctly. ....

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2007-12-27          149669


acerguy, I would follow through and check the front wheel to be sure there is no bind there. If you can pick up the front end with the loader I would check it cold and then when it is having a hard time moving to see it is binding after moving. You may also be able to tell by watch the front tire marks esp in snow or such to see if they look like they are being push or skidding. I doubt you would be able to find a hot spot by touch but may.

If I run my HST Kubota on hard surface in 4 wheel drive long enough (like a half mile on paved road) where the front wheels are not able to slip it has acted about the same as you are having happen. kt ....

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earthwrks
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2007-12-27          149670


acer, when you jacked up the rear and spun the tires, was one tire on the ground under a load to keep it from spinning? If not, it needs to be. Otherwise, if both wheels are off the ground, one wheel will rotate one direction and the other wheel the other direction as all forces are going through the differential but not through the ring and pinion and back through the transmission to detect a problem.

Also, try jacking all four wheels off the ground and with engine running run the go-pedal back and forth and see if the resistance/noise still occurs. ....

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2007-12-27          149672


If I might add to EW on all 4 wheels off ground. I would not run the wheels fast one direction and suddenly change directions. kt ....

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acerguy
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2007-12-27          149673


Well, I went home over lunch and checked a few more things out. I could not see any line constricted and under no load (flat, level ground, not pushing anything) it runs basically normally. As soon as there is a load is slows down and the transmission starts whining. While I did not check the rear with one wheel down/one wheel up nor the front end, I can confirm that it seems to roll in neutral like normal. Regardless, I called the dealer and they're picking it up this afternoon. :( I will, of course, keep you all posted with all details! ....

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Chief
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2007-12-27          149675


Just to confirm, you verified the tranmission is in low range and the linkage is in good working order. The symptons you describe could very well be a hydro unit trying to overcome a transmission stuck in high range. I think you already said you have checked for this but did you check to make sure when you move the shift lever, the transmission is actually shifting into and out of the indicated range? ....

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2007-12-27          149689


Yep. It will move under a no load condition in LOW. It whines like a mother and basically won't move at all in HIGH.

Once again, thanks for all the responses. We'll see what the dealership (hopefully not STEALERship) says... ....

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2007-12-27          149692


Acer based on your last post all I need is your credit card number and the expiration date, cause I think this is really simple.

When you put in low and you drive it the go-pedal can go all the way to the floor (or stops) in either direction right?

And when you put it in HIGH he go-peadl is really hard to push either way, right?

If you answered YES to both, then I feel it's the wrong oil and/or it is just cold and the oil has not heated up. That would explain why the steering is hard. Think of the tractor being a huge heat sink or radiator with the wind blowing on it and snow on it anywhere wicking away any heat. Think: the mechanical equivalent of human hypothermia. Ahh yes!

I could be wrong. But every piece of equipment I have that has a hydro or a pump on it takes a while to get warm. ....

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acerguy
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2007-12-28          149696


Let's see....3222 233 4444, expiration of 2/12 but I really don't see how that will help... ;)

Well, to answer your question, I guess I would say "sort of" but let me put it this way...the tractor was working pretty much normally (including operating in the low teens) up until a week or two ago. Then, it pretty much suddenly started doing this. So I changed the oil, using the dealer recommended fluid with basically no effect. So I don't think it's the fluid....but let's hope it really is something that simple. ....

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2007-12-28          149698


"It whines like a mother and basically won't move at all in HIGH."

"...the tractor was working pretty much normally (including operating in the low teens) up until a week or two ago. Then, it pretty much suddenly started doing this."

Sounds to me more like something in the pressure relief setup went south.

I doubt it is anything to do with the oil if it just started to happen out of the blue.

Best of luck. ....

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2007-12-28          149700


Well, just got off the phone with a sympathetic-sounding fellow named Joe from the dealer. He took the tractor out and put it through it's paces. The verdict? He believes that it's at least the "charge pump" gone bad. He further suspects that they will have to rebuild one or both of the "cylinder block group" and wear plates of the HST. Oh...and it could be up to 18hrs of labor. Granted, he was quoting me the worst case scenario.

The charge pump intuitively to me makes sense...that would explain the tough power steering in addition to the drive not working well. The drive wearing out...well, I think I'll call him back or go visit and try to get more information so I can get my head around that.

I asked him if this was normal for a vehicle with only 670 hours on it. He said "no" but suspects that something like a bearing may have gone south a while ago and contaminated the system. He asked me what the fluid looked like when I drained it and what the pre-screen filter looked like. Sure there were some metal bits, some coloration but hard to say there was a smoking gun. The dealership (different branch than where it is now) supposedly changed all the fluids when I bought it. I have my doubts now. Anyhow, I still love my little CUT but am very disappointed to say the least.

Yes, this is going to be ex$pen$ive. :( ....

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earthwrks
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2007-12-28          149701


If yours is anything like my blue, the steering system has its own reservoir and pump, the hitch and acc. has it's own pump, and the hydro has its own pump. The hydro system has a charge pump but it is integral to the hydro system pump. IMHO if the swash plates are that bad, there is even more wear.

When I had my backhoe's hydro pump and motor rebuilt, I watched them do the entire job and got a tour of the 200,000 sq ft facility. In '01 it cost $1200 for just the hydro rebuild inc. parts and labor---but that was with me removing and replacing it plus driving four hour each way to the shop.

They told me that while the drive motor was OK, they would not warranty the pump unless I had them rebuild them both.

....

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2007-12-28          149702


EW.... just one sump on this model for everything.

Acerguy... sorry to hear the verdict. Hopefully it really is the worst case scenario.

I know it won't ease the pain in the wallet, but I have been on this web site since 2001 and paying special attention to posts about the smaller JD CUT's. This is the first major mechanical problem I can recall on a 41xx or smaller machine in all those years.

Probably significant also is the fact that it appeared on a used machine with an unknown service history.

Keep us posted as the situation developes... ....

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2007-12-28          149705


Sorry to hear of the bad news from the dealer. Probably no way to tell now but when you mentioned the hydro fluid was red........that waved a red flag to me. I can't help but wonder if possible the fluid previously in the tractor was the wrong stuff. Really no way to tell conclusively if it did or did not contribute to the failure. That's Murphy's Law for you. No offence intended Murf! :-) ....

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2007-12-28          149706


Yeah...the fact that I was told by the dealer that sold it to me that they had fully "serviced" the unit before I bought it and then to see much different looking fluid come out than what I put in (using the official stuff) makes me wonder. As you say, it was used when I bought it so I don't know the true service history. Hard to say. Anyhow, I'll hope for the best. And probably change my hydro fluid much more often than what the factory recommends! ....

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2007-12-28          149708


Acerguy, I thought of you today as I was using my Kubota with manual trans that had a gear to go out in the trans as less hours than your JD had on it. I would ask that shop their opinion on the hours on the tractor. I would also consider having them look over the machine while there. kt ....

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2007-12-28          149710


Yeah...that's a good idea. I think I'll head up there on Monday and chat with the guy in person. See what I can learn.

Heh. Just came home from a "real" farmer friend of ours house. I just have to laugh as he and his brothers run a huge dairy/cheese making operation and he's in charge of some pretty big equipment. And I'm fretting about my little 20hp tractor. :) He jokes about how his father, after driving one of their top-o-the-line tractors, said he'd have to get a better car. ;) ....

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2008-01-04          149860


Before you spend a lot of money repairing this machine, I have one more suggestion as a possibility to rule out. I have worked on both a 4300 and 4310 that is the same frame size as your 4100. Both machine where stored outside on a construction site for some time and not inside like I normal do. Both machine over time began to lose pulling power, but engine ran great. One cold day the 4300 just stop moving and just made a whining noise when HST pedal was depressed. I asked my locate John Deere Dealer if they had seen this problem before and if they had any suggestions before I began to attempt a repair, of course by my self. They told me the same thing that the charge pump had gone bad and would have to disassemble the tractor to make that determination. After talking to them for a while, I realized how little they knew about HST,s and how to troubleshoot them.
The John Deere repair manual does a good job of telling you how to troubleshoot with pressure gauges and proper readings. All my readings where fine. After further investigation I found that the brake shaft that come out of the rear housing had corrosion on it and had frozen in the housing, causing the brakes to drag then finally lockup. Get under the tractor where the brake shafts go in to the housings and see if you can move them easily by hand. If they do not move tap them lightly with a hammer in to the released position and try driving the tractor to see if this corrects the problem. If this is the problem you will have to remove the brake housing to polish the shaft and housing bore. I also, had the same problem with my 4310 at about 800Hrs. I am concerned that your fluid could have been incorrectly serviced and that the HST is production Metal. I had one 4300 damage a PTO Clutch and make metal that was discovered in a routing fluid change. HST and PTO worked fine at the time, but I immediately disassembled and repair before any further damage occurred. I can send to pictures of both repairs by e-mail if you would like. Hopefully you can get lucky and will not have to split the tractor to change the charge pump. Good Luck,
Paul

....

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2008-01-04          149872


Paul, thanks for the reply! One of the things I did try was spinning the rear wheels by hand with the rear end jacked up. They moved reasonably well with the transmission in neutral. Granted, I did NOT try to move them both at the same time however I DID note that, while I could spin them with the brake off, I could NOT spin them when I applied the brake. Still, it's an interesting thought. Although a stuck brake would not explain my low power steering pressure though. Worth a call to the dealer to have them investigate. Again, thanks!

Keith ....

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2008-01-12          150173


Well, got the tractor back from the dealer and it's as good as new. Which is nice as it cost a couple of arms and a leg. Basically, they had to rebuild the charge pump and replaced both the HST motors. He saved all the old parts for me and you could definitely see the wear. It all made sense and the mechanic spent a good 20 minutes walking me through the thing. A lot of the cost of the repair stemmed from the labor as you have to "split the tractor" to get at everything (his words). He also questioned the red fluid that was in there. I'm pretty certain now that that the original dealer did NOT change the fluids as I had thought. Oh well, lesson learned. At this point, I'm just happy to have it back. Thanks again for all of the suggestions and support!

Keith ....

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2008-01-12          150175


Keith, you probably don't have two hydraulic motors. What you have is a one hydro pump and one motor. They may be one unit like my Blue has or separate. The charge pump is part of the hydro pump.

And the red fluid I think I mentioned earlieris likely automatic trans fluid, which at least in some of my older hydrostat equipment is okay to use; whether it's okay to use in yours remains to be seen. It also may red due to someone using an over-the-counter, fluid-type transmission fixer. ....

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2008-01-12          150177


Glad to hear this saga has come to an end.

I hope you have many hundreds of trouble free hours ahead of you now. ....

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2008-01-13          150190


Yes, I probably didn't describe the HST rebuild correctly. Regardless, I got to use it quite a bit today and can confirm that it runs great; perhaps better than ever. Now I can go back to lurking in the forum more! :) ....

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2008-01-13          150192


Acer, I didn't mean to come across as correcting you :)(I save that for Kenny who REALLY needs it)

I just wanted to make sure a. you got what you were paying for i.e, if they rebuilt only one component but said they did two of the same category, you got ripped and, b. others with this problem like yours may be reading this thread and skip to the end the of the story only to find an erroneous solution.

But I'm jis' sayin' ....

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