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 07-07-2008, 15:24 Post: 155142
kthompson



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 Grey Market Tractor

Request for Grey Market tractors show up here often which is understand.

Just wondering the reasons for the attitude by the Manufacture. Could it be if they are shown to support machines which do not meat our safety standards, in court that support might be seen as condoning the use of those machines, making them liable for any injury that could come from such lack of safety equipment or warnings as required by US or Canada’s laws.

Other ideas? kt






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 07-07-2008, 18:03 Post: 155150
Art White



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Ken, the grey market tractors depending on where they were sold to depends on how they are built. Some have gear oil in the hydraulic systems because where they are used they don't use loaders or hydraulics for much and they certainly aren't designed for cold waether!
That's when you get beyond the safety systems!

Chances are you will find wiring differences because of the safety equipment and more.

It is tough enough keeping up with the ones that are supposed to be out there for parts peole and sales much less what someone might have dragged in to save a dollar!






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 07-07-2008, 18:09 Post: 155151
auerbach



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One answer is they're just being difficult. Suppose I bought a bunch of used Chevies, shipped them to Japan, and sold them cheap. Some cause tragedies because the steering wheel is on the wrong side, and the Japs get mad at GM. Others demand repair manuals in Japanese. I don't think GM would care.

The other answer is what you wrote. Hard to believe but in fact, an American farmer was killed when his grey yannie rolled, and his widow successfully sued Yanmar for not having put a ROPS on it. Another result is that Yanmar got ebay to refuse listings of grey ones.






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 07-08-2008, 09:23 Post: 155167
candoarms



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 Grey Market Tractor

KThompson,

I'm of the firm opinion that ANY piece of equipment can be dangerous, or even deadly, when no operator's manual is available.

All manufacturers would be better off if they'd make manuals available for download, free of charge, in any language.

Online manuals are easy to produce. And there's language interpretation/conversion software available today that allows for conversion to nearly any language.

Printing costs are paid for by the end user. The manufacturers don't have to print out any books. They don't have to hire people to stock and ship the manuals. They'd only have to invest in the interpretation software and post the manuals on the web, such as MTD does.

I honestly believe the whole world would be better off if manuals for any piece of equipment were made available to anyone who wants, or needs them.

Grey market tractors are far more dangerous to use when an operator's manual cannot be found. On the other hand, I don't think it right to sue a manufacturer for failing to have safety equipment on any tractor. It is up to the end user to provide for his own safety. It's called PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

Joel






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 07-08-2008, 10:38 Post: 155169
Art White



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Joel, it owuld be good for those with computers! How about for those that don't! Crazy enough as it may seem but we have areas with party lines yet!

There will always be holes, we just don't have enough people with the intestinal fortitude to say enough is enough. Sorry about your loss but!

It seems that with this country if you make a dumb or stupid mistake you get fiscally rewarded!

Great legal system we have here!






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 07-08-2008, 11:38 Post: 155173
AnnBrush



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 Grey Market Tractor

The VAST majority of incidents do not result in lawsuit - just because we hear of the occasional:

"but in fact, an American farmer was killed when his grey yannie rolled, and his widow successfully sued Yanmar for not having put a ROPS on it"

which is often of dubious source or not cited with a credible reference, the impression is that everyone is being sued for every incident. Not true, sure there are some incidents.

On the production side manufacturers have a responsibility to design safety into their equipment. There is not a single person here who would say that it was OK for a manufacturer to produce equipment today having the safety standards or equipment design specs that were OK for the 1900's. Take a vehicle without seat belts for example, if your new car arrived with out them today who's responsibility would you think that was, "It's OK I'll just drive carefully" - I think not - 50 years from now they will say the same thing about airbags (assuming they still have them). So the argument that it is the primarily users responsibility to ensure safety is just bogus. You could easily win the argument that a ROPS was a manufacturers responsibility to provide when its documented that there was reasonable expectation that a tractor might roll.

If you bought a hand gun without a trigger guard and it had a hairpin trigger - would you sue if it went off and killed your kid - you bet you would. You have the reasonable expectation that the device is safe to use as intended. The "reasonable expectation" clause is where lawsuits come in - everybody has a different opinion.






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 07-08-2008, 14:21 Post: 155175
Murf

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 Grey Market Tractor

While I DO AGREE with the sentiments expressed here, there is a missed point in all of this.

The tractors we are talking about are GREY MARKET units never intended for this country, or it's type of consumer, use, market or anything else.

These tractors were built for use in primarily dead flat fields, by third world workers & farmers to whom "a few hundred bucks" is a YEARS WAGES, not a nice night out with our significant other.

Complaining about the lack of safety features on a grey market tractor is paramount to complaining because you bought a car made in, and FOR USE IN, a third world country and and then griped because it didn't have ABS brakes or adequate crash protection.

The machines are made for a suitable standard given the target market.

The problem, IMHO is when some unscrupulous importer decides he can exploit a loop-hole in the law to make a fast buck on the price disparity between the grey market machine and the proper one.

Best of luck.






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 07-09-2008, 08:05 Post: 155194
auerbach



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Ann, there's indeed a lot of falsity on the net. When I heard about that (one) lawsuit I didn't believe it so I checked and confirmed it on a legal site. I'm no judge of lawyers, but I sure wouldn't hire the one that Yanmar used.






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 07-09-2008, 08:17 Post: 155196
kthompson



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Not throwing off at any brand of tractor for anything man made has enough problems. But boy reading how many people have problem after problem with some of the legal products, it must be a nightmare with a Grey Market or do those people just undertand there is no or at very little support. Nah, it does not register I am sure unless they have been there before. I looked at one a few years ago and it took a while for it to fully register what all was being given up to buy a Grey Market.

One point I don't understand on the Grey Market, how so many people from a low income area can afford to trade tractors often enough there is such a supply to sell in the US and at so low a price. kt






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 07-10-2008, 03:20 Post: 155209
crunch



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 Grey Market Tractor

In my experience people on juries are quick to convict in criminal matters and quick to give away someone else's money in civil matters. I have been on one murder trial and 2 civil trials.

In one civil trial a man with a bad back is out of work for a couple of months. He comes back to work to talk and have fun and agrees to change a bulb for someone at work. He trips and falls and hurts his back some more.

The parties settle before the trial ends. The lawyers poll the jury to see what our opinions were (to see if they had a good settlement). I said I would give the man $0. Others were prepared to offer $1,000,000 for loss of sex. The amount of money meant nothing to them since it was coming out of some company's pocket.






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