Go Bottomweight on back of tractor for plowing
 | kleinchris
Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 269 Westminster, Texas 
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2007-09-19 145893
I am comtemplating building a three point device which would aid in pulling a tractor out of snow or mud. But, before I get this built... If I were to mount a plow on my FEL, will I be able to elevate the plow and keep my back wheels on the ground with out a counter weight on the three point hitch? Or if you do this, what do you use on the back? Wheel weights, suitcases, anything?
I am not really concerned with traction at the moment, but rather balance.
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 | earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan 
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2007-09-19 145894
Chris I think you're putting the cart before the horse. Instead of inevitably planning to get stuck, plan to have traction. That said...
Henry Ford had a system for lifting the entire tractor (2N/9N) for changing tires and/or for widening the stance. It consisted of a fold down "kickstands" front and rear that were connected by chains so tat would pull at the same time when the rear one was connected to the 3pt hitch.
Having been an avid offroader for years, I feel you should be looking for an electric 5000 lb. cap. winch or even 8000. They are about $300-400. Then there are PTO-driven and hydraulic which can be salvaged from wrecker/tow trucks.
As far as an anchor, I made one that was extremely effective. It looked like a single bottom plow crossed with a fishing anchor. The flat, up-side-down shovel-like head had a point to it that would literally drive it 24" below ground and resisted pull-out of about 2o,000 lb. ....
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 | candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1932 North Dakota 
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2007-09-19 145896
Kleinchris,
I don't know how to post a photo here for you.
Please e-mail me and I'll gladly send you a couple of pictures.
For those who do not want to e-mail me, I'll tell you a bit about these things.
The North Dakota State Department of Weights and Measures holds an auction sale every year or so. It was during one of these auctions that I managed to pick up a few scale weights, which had been dinged up enough to cause them to fall outside of acceptable specs. (Dropped and chipped)
These scale weights have handles on them, so that State employees can carry them around and place them on the scales. A 3-point draw-bar slips right through the handles, which allows me to place 5 of these 50lb weights on the 3-point draw-bar.
Total cost = $5.00
Joel ....
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| kleinchris
Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 269 Westminster, Texas
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2007-09-19 145898
"I am not really concerned with traction at the moment, but rather balance." (From above)
Ive got the traction thing under control. Just trying to get some balance info- but I will check into info. ....
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| earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2007-09-19 145899
How 'bout: a long rope or chain, a cell phone, and a buddy with a phone AND a 4x4. ....
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 | Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2007-09-19 145900
Often with front attachments it is neccesary to add rear ballast. My preference is solid weight not liquid as it is just more effective ballast. The rule to a degree is to just help stabilize the tractor and not over load the tractor.
There are combinations of front blades on tractors don't need much if any additional ballast on the rear. ....
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| earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2007-09-19 145906
I'm still a bit puzzled about getting stuck in snow or mud and using the hitch to get yourself out. Am I missing somethin'?
When I'd get my backhoe stuck---really stuck--I'd lay down a steel pipe or beam under the raised bucket, lower the bucket to keep weight off the front wheels then use the hoe to crab-walk myself backward out while easily sliding on the pipe. In other cases where a pipe was not handy, using the rolled bucket to push myself backward works so long as the hole has a still bottom. This also works well for a skid steer loader too. ....
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Add Photoweight on back of tractor for plowing
| kleinchris
Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 269 Westminster, Texas
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2007-09-20 145907
Art, do you plow snow with a FEL attachment and if so, what do you use for counterwieght? How does the tractor act with out it? Is the counter weight used for balance or traction?
This device I am making is a tool which will help me get unstruck, and it will be relatively light for a tractor attachment. So, I wont be able to use it on the back end if I need, say, a box blade on the back for counter weight just so I can steer the tractor. ....
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| kleinchris
Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 269 Westminster, Texas
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2007-09-20 145908
Earthworks- you have a simple effectie way of getting unstuck. So, go ahead and give me your phone number. ....
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| earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2007-09-20 145910
Ready? Nine. One. One.
Call anytime! They...errrr...I will be waiting. ....
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 | kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2007-09-20 145912
klienchris, re read earthwrks suggestion, he failed to put in time limit for that "Buddy" to respond. Don't think he will fall into that "First" responder catagory myself, not unless you are stuck in his path. But I'm just saying...;) But you still have to love him. kt ....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2007-09-20 145914
I set up outfits with blades, loader mounted blades, and blowers for the front of tractors and you didn't get specific enough on your type of mount of the blade. Like I said before, it really depends on the tractor model but many do add rear weight to the wheels or hitch. ....
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 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2007-09-20 145917
Kleinchris, first off, any time you add weight past an empty bucket on the FEL you need counterbalance, how much depends on how you mount the plow on your FEL. If you do it like I have (see my picture # 15) you will need a fair amount of weight, both for traction (I'm pushing a 7.5' plow) and for counter-balance (I put it a long way out in front).
Now, having said that, of all the counterbalance weights I've seen, I still think the all time best down & dirty way to do it is by using a plastic 55 gallon barrel and a 3pth drawbar. About halfway up the barrel cut two rectangular holes through which the drawbar will just barely pass, then fill the barrel 3/4 full of cement. If possible, put a large bolt or something through the center hole and pointing up to become a 3rd link mount. It will stop the weight from swinging. If you live near a ready mix plant, or a job site where they're pouring lots of concrete, you can often get the dregs for free if you come to them. Concrete weighs about 148 pounds per cubic foot, a 55 gallon drum is 7.35 cubic feet, a 3/4 full one would be about 5.5 cubic feet or 814 pounds of concrete. The open space at the top of the barrel works as a really handy catch all for ropes, chains, gloves, etc., when you're working too.
The key to plowing with the FEL is not to mount the plow rigidly to the FEL, but instead let it run free like mine is. The big difference is the entire weight of the FEL and plow mount still rests on the front wheels this way, only the weight of the plow itself is on the ground. When you are plowing you have maximum traction because all 4 wheels are fairly equally loaded.
Now in may case the machine and all is a bit bigger, but with R4's and 800 pounds on the 3pth, and the plow setup I have I can, and have, pulled 1 ton trucks with a snow plow and salter mounted, out of the ditch.
I must say though, with the plow as far out as mine is, I really need more weight on the back when the plow is up a foot or so off the ground, but since all I ever do is move around the yard that way it's no big deal. If I have to road the machine more than a few houses away I just lift the FEL and roll the bucket under so as to have the plow hanging straight down. This brings the weight in far enough to restore the balance.
Best of luck. ....
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| Lwayne
Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 95
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2007-09-20 145930
Kleinchris: I move a considerable amount of snow in the winter and my main attachments are a FEL, a box blade and a Farm King 740-74" snow blower. Thus far, with about 1000#'s of fluid in the rear tires, I've never encountered a lot of problems with too little ballast or getting stuck. I'm not quite sure what you have for a tractor but if it has FWD and you have correctly sized attachments you shouldn't run into a lot of problems using plain, ordinary common sense. I usually have the box blade mounted when the snow blower isn't. You can move one heck of a lot of snow in a hurry with a box blade if it isn't too deep. It's really good for those every day or so dustings of a few inches. You won't even use your FEL because you can pile it 6' or 7' just pushing in reverse. My old tractor w/o FWD got stuck easy but it's pretty simple to just walk yourself out with the bucket. A ballast box on the 3 ph is great for front end work but if you need the 3 ph for other use you've just lost your ballast. ....
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| earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2007-09-20 145933
Murf, if I understand you correctly you say you prefer the plow to be farther out from the bucket? But then you have to add weight to counter the extended weight and leverage on the front wheels. So in essence you really haven't gained anything. In fact, haven't you increased the lateral force on the front end making harder to get traction when the plow is in any position but exactly straight? That said, wouldn't it follow that keeping the plow as close to the front wheels as practicable is actually the better way to go? ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2007-09-25 146054
Jeff, sort of, but not quite.
I do prefer the WAY I have it mounted, which IS out further, but only because doing so allows the plow to be mounted the same as on the truck, pivoted at the mount.
It does help a very little with visibility, and it gives you far better ability to stack snow, or to push the tops off existing banks, but that is just a side benefit, not the reason for doing it.
The only time it adds weight is when the plow is in the air, which isn't very often.
I should add some pictures of the way it is mounted and the position in which it is used, it's hard to explain. The FEL is about a foot in the air, this puts the weight of the FEL itself only on the front wheels, the weight of the plow is resting on the ground. This creates the best weight balance possible on the tractor, without loading the tires, which for us is a non-issue, loaded tires and turf work don't mix.
Best of luck. ....
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 | NorthernMainer
Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 31 Maine
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2007-12-12 149251
;-) Hey for what ever its worth I plow here in Northern Maine with a 3203 John Deere with the CX300 loader and the big 6' bucket . I have the rear tires full of "rim guard" and they are R4s. I have a 450lb grader blade on the back as well. We just had 25" here last Monday, and that is nothing for it. It pushes it anywhere you would ever want to go. I tilt the bucket up a degree or so and that leaves a wisker of snow but doesnt rip the lawns all up until everything gets froze up real solid. The 7' grader blade is really great and when its angled you can get the exact results as you would with a plow on a pickup. Our tractor is only 32hp but it will really push a mountain and has super traction and would say that most of the time if I am plowing at low rpms [16-1700] it will stall the tractor before it ever spins a wheel. With the rears locked up it is about unstopable. I am kicking around an idea at the moment of building an adaptor so any JD owner with the QD system on his bucket could just pop his QD bucket off and because we have alot of old FISHER plow blades kicking around up here, I have done all the measuring and have drawn up an adaptor on the CAD program and will build a good HD adaptor of JD quality, so anyone that has access to a 7 1/2 ft or 8 ft Fisher blade, could just hook into this adaptor and then just hook it onto the FEL arms and I will get some QD for my hoses, so I can use the top hydros to run the pistons that are down on the A frame of those Fisher plows. Then you have a heavy duty blade, that you could angle, from the cab, with your standard joy stick and lift it or angle it. Alot of guys have done this already, but most of them have extended off the front of the frame with metal, and hooked the end of the aframe directly to the frame, and lifted the blade different ways, which is identical to how it is rigged on a pickup.
Ours will be a similar to a Curtis Plow adaptor, but will use a Fisher blade. I am hoping to be able to produce the adaptor compleate for around $800; and Fisher blades used run from $250-1000 according to the condition. So realistically one should be plowing for say $12-1500 and that exactly half of a new Curtis plow............. let me know if anyone wants one, as we are just getting ready to cut out the first ones..........
Earle
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2007-12-13 149267
Earle, you mean sort of like my picture # 15?
Great idea you have there, I've been doing it for 25+ years now....
Best of luck. ....
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| NorthernMainer
Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 31 Maine
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2007-12-13 149272
Murf,
How do I see your picture #15??? Have no idea where its located. And I am very firmilar with the fact that LOTS of guys have made up adaptors over the years for lots of different plows. However we are trying to stay with the standards so will try out the JD system with QD and if there is enough interest would draw up one for the Kabotas QD system as we have alot of Fisher blades available up in New England so it would be something that ANYONE could just hook to their blade and install QDs to hook up the hoses and away you go............... we will see how it works ..... sounds like you have had great sucess with that system so that is good news! ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2007-12-13 149275
On the grey coloured panel to the left, under my avatar is an icon of a camera and the word "Pics". Click on this icon, then on the right side are a list of pictures, in the far column fifth one down is my picture # 15.
It is shown below for your convenience.
Best of luck. ....
Picture Link
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