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JD 4210 or TC35D

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Muensterman
Join Date: Apr 2004
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2004-04-13          82981

Looking to buy a tractor soon to maintain 10 acres, gravel driveway, snow removal, tree & rock moval/removal, bushhogging and mowing. Looking at the JD 4210 and the New Holland TC35d. At a loss as what to purchase. Both are at $19000 (that is what I have to spend) with loader and bushhog, hydro tranny and 4 wheel drive. CAn anyone give me thier opinions on these two tractors? Do they have similar longevity?

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Chief
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2004-04-13          82984

You are comparing apples and oranges here. A more acurate comparison would be the John Deere 4610 or 4710 and the TC45. $19,000 is outrageous for a 4210. Here is an example of a more reasonably priced Deere in the range you want if you want a 45 hp. CUT. ....


Link:   click here

 
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Chief
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2004-04-13          82986

If you haven't already looked; I would suggest Corriher who is one of this sites advertising sponsors and provides VERY good service and prices on New Holland tractors. VERY good folks to deal with. ....

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Chief
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2004-04-13          82987

Sorry about that! I could have sworn I saw TC45. The 4310 would be a very similar but slightly less powerful option. ....


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Chief
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2004-04-13          82988

Or a more heads up comparison would be the 4410. ....


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kwschumm
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2004-04-13          82992

Actually, I don't think there is a direct match between a TC35 and a JD tractor. The JD 4310/4410 machines are mid-framed models and the TC35 is a large frame. If you're comparing power and hydraulics the 4410 seems to be the closest match, but if you're comparing frame size and power the 4610 is the closest match. ....

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Chief
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2004-04-13          82994

I agree with Ken on the size part and would strongly suggest the 4610 if you go green. It is the best value tractor in the large frame 4000 Ten Series as is the 4310 in the medium frame 4000 Ten Series. ....

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Chief
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2004-04-13          82995

Don't discount the Kubota 30 Series tractor as well. The 3430 and 3830 would be a fairly close match and are very good machines. I took a shine to the L3830's and up. ;o) ....

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Muensterman
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2004-04-13          82996

Was $19000 to much for the 4210 including liquid filled tires, a loader and a bushhog?? I am so glad I found this site. All the input is definately helping? ....

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brokenarrow
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2004-04-13          82997

Chief
Unless I am missing something? Now thro a loader and brush cutter on that 16,100 and it comes out to around $20,000. ? I think he is at 19k. ....

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kwschumm
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2004-04-13          83003

I don't think $19k is out of line with a loader and rotary cutter. But since the OP didn't say what model loader and cutter were included it makes it more difficult to say. The 430 loader is $600-700 more than the 420, and the rotary cutter might be $500-1800 depending on model, so there is some iffiness here. What model loader and cutter did your JD dealer quote you on? ....

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Muensterman
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2004-04-13          83007

Yes, the quote from the JD dealer was 19100 for the tractor, loader and rufcut: and 19000 even for the TC35d, loader and rufcut (both, the loader I know, implements were lareger than the ones the JD are offering). What aboutMMM on both, are they difficult to take off and on when neccesary? Also, JD was a light duty bushhog John Deere brand, and the NH was offering a Bush HOg Squeeler series rufcut. Both with Slip clutch, much difference between those two? ....

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Chief
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2004-04-13          83008

If you buy a rotary cutter with green paint on it, then those prices are not to far off the mark. Personally, at 28 hp. the 4210 would be grossly underpowered and he would not be at all happy with it. ....

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kwschumm
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2004-04-13          83009

Chief is right, the 4210 is a bit underpowered for it's frame size. ....

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Chief
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2004-04-13          83010

The best thing I can suggest would be to sit down and compare heads up equal hp tractors in the same size class with similar transmissions and options. Also do the same with the impliments. The costs when you compare apples to apples in each catagory will surprise you and in most cases, there is no free lunch. For instance, if you compare a King Kutter rotary cutter with say a Land Pride; when you factor in the safety chains, guards, slip clutch, etc.; the price margins close up more. Make sure you take the entire comparison into consideration. ....

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Chief
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2004-04-13          83012

Did not mean to imply that King Kutter was bad stuff either. For occasional and limited use, they are a very economical choice. Just remember to take into account all the features and specs. They all add a certain amount to the cost. Some may not always be required and that is where you might come out ahead. ....

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JD 4210 or TC35D

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Chief
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2004-04-13          83013

Another point is that you can only mount a 420 FEL on a 4210. This could be a big issue depending upon what you have in mind. ....

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kwschumm
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2004-04-13          83014

Chief, are you sure about the 420 loader? The JD brochure I have says both the 420 and 430 will work, but that could be one of JD's famous misprints. ....

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Chief
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2004-04-13          83017

Unless there have been some changes that I am not aware of; last I knew was that a 420 was the only JD FEL you could put on a 4210. ....

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JD 4210 or TC35D

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oneace
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2004-04-13          83018

just about eveyone here knows me by now, but i'll say it again i am a mechanic for nh. And in my opinion the tc 35 is a grossly under powered tractor, for a few more dollars go with the tc 40 for the extra money you get a four cylinder instead of a three and it may only be five more horse power but a whole lot more torqe. I'm not up on the jd too much but from what i've heard the one you are looking at is a smaller tractor than the tc35 and cost just as much. that should tell you some thing there. I would be curious as to a price for a compareable model for either the tc 35 or the 40. ....

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oneace
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2004-04-13          83020

oh yeah the mmm on the tc 35 or 40 is an 84" and is very easy to remove and install. pull the four corner pins and unhook the quick disconnet drive line and you're done takes about 3 mins. ....

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Chief
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2004-04-13          83021

I double checked the JD web site and the 420 FEL is what is spec'd for the 4210. ....

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Muensterman
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2004-04-13          83022

The loader was the 420 and the cutter was a John Deere light Duty w/ slip clutch at 60".

The NH loader was one of either the 16la or the 17la (Was leaning tward the 16la( good or bad)). And the Bush hog was Bush Hog Squeeler series, I think at 60" aswell. ....

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Chief
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2004-04-13          83023

I think a 60" rotary cutter is pushing the limits of a 4210 but JD spec's the light duty 60" rotary cutter for the 4210. ....

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Muensterman
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2004-04-13          83025

that 84" MMM sounds great!! Does the 35 perform well with that big of a MMM? The detach time sounds great too! ....

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Muensterman
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2004-04-13          83026

Wow, that is the first real negative feedback I have heard on that tractor. I have heard that alot of the hydrolic settings are adjusted to low when they are bought from the dealer, and need to be readjusted to get the full gains of the machine. Is that the case. How does that Supersteer hold up long term? Any other specific advice you can give me about the TC35D? ....

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Chief
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2004-04-13          83027

In my opinion, the 4310 or the 4610 depending upon the size tractor you prefer would be the models I suggest in green paint. The 4410 and 4710 are even nicer but command a stiff premium for a just a few more hp. The TC40 or 45 would be a good choice of blue paint. The L3830 or L4330 for orange paint. The 4210 has issues with high cutting height settings with a MMM and they are just plain ole' underpowered. Take a look at these models and brands and see what you think. Kioti is another good choice; they are very similar to the Kubota's (in fact they are being sued by them ;o) ) Seems to me that you are looking for a good tractor in the 35 to 45 hp range depending upon size. Go and demo these tractors and see which one suits you best. Just may turn out the 4210 does after all but I kinda doubt it. Just have to try them one and walk with them like a pair of good shoes to see if you like them and they are a good fit. ....

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Peters
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2004-04-13          83028

I would think that is a good deal to a new TC35D. I found a new last years TC35 for 14K. If you add loader, hydro and brush cutter then you would be about 18K.
As they stated the 4210 is not a good comparison is not nearly the tractor. Obviously this answers you question as to whuch is the better value. I believe both hold their value well. Naturely the better deal you make up front the less you will loose in the first few years.
I would check the Kubota but don't wait to long on the NH. ....

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oneace
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2004-04-13          83029

it will do the job but as i said befor i do not like the tc 35 do to the lack of torqe. if you bog it down it takes a little to come back up to speed. Our dealership dose not even stock them for that reason the 40 is not that much more of an investment i'd advise you check it out. in normal use super steer is not needed byut if you get the mmm it is defenitly nice, and we have not had any problems with them. ....

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brokenarrow
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2004-04-13          83058

Oneace
That is exactly why I went with the tc40. I believe the cost was around 5-6 hundred more, no big deal when you consider the added lifting and power. As always, now I wish I would of spent anouther 5-6 hundred and went up to the 45 but ya keep adding adding and next thing you know you are over 20k I can tell you this, I get the New Holland price discount and for what I got I spent 19,185 bucks. If he is getting the 35/w a cutter for 19k I think it is a great deal. The bottom line prices are what need to be looked at not the walk in the door, "look how cheap this is" price. When we all add up all the LITTLE upgrades we want or need the price jumps fast. I even had a dealer tell me, " OH you want tires with that?" That will be an add on, LOL needless to say I didi not buy with them!
Well I will talk to ya all next week cause tomarroo I am going to the farmstead to take delivery of my tractor. Finnally I will have first hand knowlege of what you all have been talkin about. I hope it is all of what we have been talkin about or more. Thanks for all the help also,
I really appreciate it!!!!
Tom ....

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Muensterman
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2004-04-14          83064

Thanks everyone for your input! Looks like I will probably go with the New Holland. I will just have to haggle on getting the TC40 over the TC35. I'm sure that the added cylinder will definately be smoother with more torque.

Again, thank you all.
Cheers!!!
Muensterman ....

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danno muensterman
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2004-04-15          83176

Alex, read messages, that NH is looking better all the time...
....

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kawika007
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2004-04-16          83264

I just started looking at the big three (green, orange & blue) in this same range. Let me know what you end up getting & cost. Do these dealers discount at all normaly or ?? I'm eyeballing the TC-40D primarily. Aloha, David. ....

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Muensterman
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2004-04-16          83266

David,
I think that I am going to see how much more the TC40d is, and if is not to much more, I'll get that. If it is to much more, I'll go with the TC35D. As far as discounts go, all the ones around me (JD, Masey F., NH, Kabuta ((spelling?)), Kioti and afew others) are all pretty solid on their prices. Not many discounts. JD has a once a year sale. They offered me the 4210 at $400 cheaper, not my idea of a big sale. NH quoted me at $19000 even for the TC35DA with a loader, filled tires of my choice, and a rotary cutter. I believe that the have better financing than JD aswell, and their warranty is 2 years, where as JD is 1 year. If I had more money, I'd get a bigger JD, but after all, it's for working around the land, and it seems to have what it takes.
Let me know what you end up doing aswell.
Muensterman ....

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kwschumm
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2004-04-16          83290

The JD warranty is two years. ....


Link:   JD Warranty

 
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Muensterman
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2004-04-16          83336

You may be right. I just remember that the NH warranty was 1 year more than JD'd. I would love to get the JD like the one in your photos, I just don't have the cash for that. But I don't feel like I am settling becuase I do feel that the NH ios a good tractor aswell. How much was you tractor? Probably at or over 20grand? Wow, 20% less resell than JD. I do plan on keeping the tractor for a long time, as long as it holds out. What is the longevity of the JD's and the NH's? ....

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kwschumm
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2004-04-16          83344

I bought a bunch of stuff together the entire package was around $28k. Since we have a tree farm we could depreciate $14k this year and thus got a nice bonus back on our tax return that helps pay for it all.

It is my opinion that products from any of the major manufacturers, properly maintained, will give you years of good service. Parts may be an issue 10 or more years down the road though. I think JD is unsurpassed in parts availability. NH may suffer some in that regard since they have been involved with many mergers, and when that happens support for older products always seem to be dropped. ....

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Muensterman
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2004-04-16          83349

Wow, that's alot of implements! I see what you mean about parts and mergers. Many people say that NH is Ford, but I think that Ford's tractor division was bought by FIAT and were not allowed to keep the name on Ford on the tractors. I think I read something like that on a NH webpage. I could be wrong. ....

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grassgod
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2004-04-16          83375

I have a 1999 JD790 & the quick detach loader was poorly engineered. JD discovered this & redesigned it for 2000. Well, my loader would literally "pop" off any any given time if i had a load of gravel or some type of material in it if I drove over a slight bump while carrying the load. Well it did this to me several times, which damaged my hood & side panels not to mention it took me over an hour to remount it each time after this would happen. When I notified JD, They didnt want to hear about it. My dealer went to baddle for me & I had to attend a meeting with a big wig from JD. The big wig had an arrogant attitude & I had to argue for them to split the cost of damage with me!! In my opinion, They should have updated my tractor with the redesigned loader.When i go to get a bigger tractor in a few years, It will be a NH. I vote NH!!! ....

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Muensterman
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2004-04-17          83380

Wow, that's pretty bad. That's also the first bad thing that I have heard about JD machines. I HAVE heard that alot of JD dealers arrogant and beat around the bush when you have a problem. The two in my area seem okay, but then again I don;t have a tractor from them to have problems with to need to deal with the dealer. 'm sure every brand seems okay before the purchase, but after you buy it, it could be a hole different story.
Thanks for the input!!
Muensterman ....

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kawika007
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2004-04-17          83424

I tested the Kubota 3830 & loved it ! It has 39 horse. I upgraded the loader & bucket to the max. 1700 lbs max capacity. Just a bit shy of the NH loaders, but I got the whole thing for 20,000 out the door. I saved 2-4 thousand over NH & got just a little less in specs, but I MUCH prefered the operation of the implements & the controls were very predictable & best described as "Solid & Smooth" The NH was much more difficult to control fine movements of the loader , fwd & Rev from the Hydro trans. You got to go drive them & ask people who have used both. I wanted to buy USA, but I just felt the Kubota was the better tractor in this range. Aloha, David. ....

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oneace
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2004-04-17          83433

i misrepresented my self earlyer the price diff. between the tc 35 and the 40 is about $1800, and the 40 to 45 is about $1300 sorry for any confusion. as i said before im a mechanic not a salesman ....

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billy r
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2004-04-21          83860

I have had problems with New Holland customer service. I would not suggest going with NH. Major failure no help. ....

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Muensterman
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2004-04-21          83862

What major failure did you have with your tractor? What model tractor do you have? ....

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billy r
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2004-04-21          83871

Tractor broke in half while useing the front end loader. No help from New Holland. Just said it is out of warranty. ....

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oneace
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2004-04-21          83873

i dont understand what you people dont under stand about a warrenty. a company will arent something for so long and the it is over. pay the bill or quit gripping about it. what do you want them to cover the tracto for the rest of your life. the only time i've ever seen a tractor break in two is from plain and simple abuse. ....

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Chief
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2004-04-21          83880

I understand PLENTY about a warranty and I understand the I expect ANY tractor I buy or use to NEVER break in two under just about any circumstances! New Holland should be falling all over themselves to demand the have that tractor back and issue him a new tractor. That would be the correct and decent thing to do. New Holland customer support is very well known to me for be mediocre at best. That is why I went with Deere when I procured 15 4710's for the 101st. All new Holland did was threaten to sue if we did not buy their TC45D's. I told them to sue away. Maybe you would change your mind about warranties if airliners started breaking in two in flight. The aircraft are out of warranty right? ....

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oneace
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2004-04-21          83882

dude the freaking tractor is five years old they do not just break in half out of the blue. remember i am a mechanic for nh out of all the ones i've seen broken that way were abuse. he is not the only one to do that. ....

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Chief
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2004-04-21          83883

I sure would be interested in hearing what you consider to be abuse. I have never seen nor hear of a Deere or Kubota breaking in two. You think they don't get abused? This is the 4th instance I have read of of a New Holland breaking in two. That is more than just a coinicidence and sounds more like a design flaw to me. ....

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oneace
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2004-04-21          83885

cheif you must be a moron we are talking about tractors not air plane that go through hours of inspection each day befor they ever leave the ground. this is a tractor that must be maintained by the indivdual and if that person uses it then pay the price and quit cring about it. if you people have a problem with nhy then you are the exception. for one we are the least expencive and if mantained will last the rest of your life. dont take me as unsimpethetic i know how expencive it is to get repairs done. maybe next time youll learn form your mistake and take care of your unit. ....

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oneace
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2004-04-21          83888

well all you here is what is on this site i work in the shop every day ive seen all three broken in two and none more than the other. hell ive seen full size b-hoes broken in two. My dealership sells both nh and kubota we probaly sell 300 units a year or more of just nh. you have no idea what you are talking about, you just think you do and all you are going to do is get people that really dont know in a whole pile of dung. and while your at it why dont you call deer or kubota and ask them what theyed do if a 5 year old tractor broke, the same thing nh is doing. ....

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Chief
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2004-04-21          83891

oneace, unfortunately I am talking to the moron and that with no doubts would be you. My suspicion is that you are more than likely the lot boy who pressure washes the equipment for the REAL mechanics to work on. The man expressed his opinion and experience about his tractor breaking in two. He is looking for some help, not a lecture from a wanna be mechanic sphinkter. In the future if you want to converse or express frustration or just being plain ole' PO'd; you might want to consider doing without the name calling as it does highlight your immaturity and inability to intelligently express yourself just as you do right now. We are NOT talking about commercial backhoes.................duh!!!!!!! We are talking about a compact tractor with a backhoe attachment installed. Obviously you have little to no idea or experience of what you are talking about in this area or you would not even try to compare or group a commercial backhoe with a compact tractor. Guys like you working in the dealer shop are a BIG reason why I do my own work! Stick with the pressure washing and you will be just fine. ....

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oneace
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2004-04-21          83894

you realy dont have any clue. and like an airplain has anything to do with cuts. and i am a certifed nh tech. you expect the world to hand you every thing. but when you bad mouth the company that i take a lot of pride in and 99% of the purchasers do to. It pisses me off when some spoiled person gets mad cause we wont cover some thing 3 years out of warrnenty. to have you know that we do bend the rules a little if say it is 6mo to year. but 3 years is entirely too long.

and i was comparing the b-hoe breaking from abuse which are supposed to be very strong compared to a cut. ....

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Chief
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2004-04-22          83927

Careful beating on your chest so hard like that. You might hurt yourself. So......you had someone sew a patch on your uniform that says you are certified? I am still unimpressed and underwhelmed. The airplane is an example which you clearly are incapable of comprehending. It could just as well be automobiles, firearms, tires, or many other items purchased by folks with the expectations of using them for MANY years. If a particular auto manufacturer's cars or trucks started breaking in two 6 months to a year out of warranty; do you think owners and quite a few others might have some justified concern???????????? According to you; it would be customer abuse and too bad......your auto is out of warranty. Or how about if a particular fire arm blew up when being fired??????????? Bottom line in business is that a product has an implied warranty that an item is particularly suited to the intended use for which it is warranted. Warrantee perioud withstanding, it is understood that typical wear and tear items are no longer covered when the item's warrantee period expires. This does not free the manufacturer from responsibility to cover a known product defect. A very recent example of this is the Firestone Tire/Ford Explorer debocle. Ford and Firestone both started off with the position that the warrantee period has expired, you abused them and it sucks to be you, too bad. We all know how it finally turned out when Ford and Firestone were forced to step up to the plate to cover damages and replace known defective tires. I am not saying all New Holland products are bad; in fact many are very good. My experiences with their customer support and warrantee folks is what made my decision not to purchase their products. A final point that perhaps even you can understand. When I had a socket of a tool break, I took it back to the Snap On, MATCO, or Mac man who replaced it without question. No BS about abuse, or out of warranty. When you pay to purchase what you feel is that best product; it is expected to last and perform and most importantly be supported by the manufacturer. ....

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2004-04-22          83929

Without provoking further slanging, and as an engineer, the question seems simple.

IF the CUT, FEL & B/H are all NH products (whether NH made or out-sourced), and assuming they are properly matched, how is is it possible that products which are DESIGNED to work as a single unit can result in self-inflicted ABUSE.

There is a very old adage in engineering, "If it works, it was done right."

For ANY company to design one component of a system of such over-whelming capacity that it is capable of damaging, let alone DESTROYING another component, is purely and simply negligent. Period. If a B/H or FEL is designed and sold for a particular model of CUT then it had better be designed with the weakest part of that CUT in mind, if it can produce more torsional force than the CUT can withstand, that is negligence.

Negligence is a two-way concept in law. Owners have the same right to expect corporations to be responsible for negligence, such as with Ford/Firestone, as companies do to deny warranty claims based on abuse rather than negligence. But the key is responsibility for the negligence. The negligent party is responsible, PERIOD.

Best of luck. ....

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grassgod
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2004-04-22          83954

My wife cant figure out why i am sitting here on this web site laughing my but off at you too argue. This is better then Jerry Springer. By the way murf, Good piont again. ....

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Murf
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2004-04-22          83955

And just like Springer we too see the occaisional 'boob'!! ....

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kawika007
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2004-04-22          83960

I hope that that's that & we can move on from this pissing contest of "My tracktor's better than yours" B.S. ! ....

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Murf
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2004-04-22          83966

And the winner of this weeks wise sentiments award is.....

Kawika !!!!

Go ahead there Kawika, reach on into my picture # 14 and take your choice of a 'cold one', and I do mean COLD.

But do be careful, that's Canuck brew, it has a real kick too it so enjoy it AFTER you get your seat time in.

To laugh is to live.

Best of luck. ....

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oneace
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2004-04-22          83977

one last statement. i've been trying to work with the guy through email but i can not get acsess to his pictures. for some reason my outlook express keeps throwing out his attachment saying it is a virus dose any body know how to stop this from happening so i can see them and may be get a solution to his troubles. ....

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grassgod
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2004-04-22          84003

Murf - You are Hilariuous!!! I agree also to laugh is to live!! ....

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monsterdad1
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2004-04-24          84178

oneace, if outlook express won't let you open any attachment because it may have a virus go to:

tools--options and click on the security tab. one of the boxes will say "do not allow attachments to be opened that could potentially be a virus"--uncheck this box then close outlook express and reopen. you should be all set. good luck. ....

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oneace
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2004-04-25          84190

thanx monsterdad that is what i was looking for ....

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