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 02-13-2004, 15:55 Post: 76795
agentorange



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We have 5 acres, ponds, horses,trees, etc. 90% of my work at home is moving material, 20 yards of this, 40 yards of that, etc. We bought a grey mkt tractor about 7 years ago. very powerful, a bit bigger (physical size) than I should have gotten. Busted-up some stuff during the "learning curve". W/ much of my work being FEL stuff, the geared tractor was a nightmare. And a bit rickety. A lot of those things have changed in the grey mkt world as I have recently realized. But I sold it soon and for a loss. Lesson learned.

I am now able to get what I want (and thankful for it) and I wanted about 20 hp, FEL, box, 4wd, hydro tranny. The compact size is important as well in and out of the barn and for my second operator, wife.

Research told me Kubota, price (surprising enough I thought) pushed me towards John Deere. The battle was on between the JD 4010 and the Kubota B7510, both comparably equipped and both very fine machines. Upon finding a dealer that sold both I did all the side-by-sideI could handle for about an hour. Then I sat on the JD and drove it around. Yep fun. As soon as I got off and sat in theseat of the orange tractor, it was over. Didn't even start it yet. Main difference to me was the ability to see the bucket clearly. I relate it to an old sedan and being able to pick up the corners of the hood from the driver's seat. The orange tractor had a clear view of the loading area. With the new hood style, the JD was a tad uncomfortable in this regard. the support bars for the loader (down the sides of the engine cowling) don't help this problem either on the JD. The JD also has a lower COG because of this. The next issue was the pedals/foot controls. "Felt" much more natural to me on the 7510, being comfortable and confident is OK. The last of the major issues was the joystick for FEL. On the Kubota I felt like it was a part of the task at hand. Felt to me like both my hands were where they should be. The response is quicker and felt more direct. The JD stick at the right hip I initialy thought was cool. Upon further review it seemed like it was too far away from what I was doing. The length of the stick itself and all mechanical advantage of the action of it felt slow and "off". Seemed like it wasn't responding to what I wanted to do in time. Seemed like a long way from the lever to the bucket. I liken this to a short-throw race-type transmission vs a standard throw. The precision felt good to me.

Time is not an issue when you own your own tractor working on your own property (within reason). You are not worried about returning a rental unit by the end of the day so you take your time. Another load or two just means more time on your rig.

These are merely my personal opinions.

Again, both very nice machines. Wife from mid-west (farmgirl)so the dissapointment came from deciding on the orange one. She does understand the differences and agrees with "our" choice. Personally I was pretty stoked about using all my research tools and mechanical knowledge to actually get the one I wanted anyway.

So here we go.
Sorry for long-winded post.
-ao






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 02-13-2004, 16:15 Post: 76797
kwschumm



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Yeah, they're both nice machines. When I compared the JD 4310-4410 to the Kubota 3130-3430 I arrived at the opposite conclusion using the same reasoning as you. I didn't care for the Kubota pedal arrangement or their joystick location. Price was about the same so the ergonomics and dealer made the difference for me. Good thing choices are available Smile

Enjoy your new tractor, and welcome to the forum!






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 02-13-2004, 16:40 Post: 76800
blizzard



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 Kubota vs John Deere Compact Tractors Review

If the CFO is going to use the tractor, I'd say you ought to let her have a side by side comparison test drive before you find your orange CUT has given you blue cojones!
Both fine tractors, just make sure there are no unacceptable features for either operator.

Good Luck with your new purchase,
bliz






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 02-13-2004, 17:41 Post: 76806
HuckMeat

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 Kubota vs John Deere Compact Tractors Review

I did my own shootout, and ended up orange. I was looking at the L series (4330) versus the 4610. I've found that my orange dealer was a good bit easier to work with than my green dealers I talked to. Here is what I found.

1) I found the fit of the orange tractor to be far superior for smaller people than green. The pedal location was better for me, and I preferred the joystick up by my steering wheel. The tilt mechanism on the deere was chincy and difficult to operate, and getting the seat adjusted so my feet would reach the pedals (don't laugh, I'm only 5' 5"Wink yeah right took 10 minutes with the dealer frantically trying.

2) I did my shootout in 20 degree weather - Anyone can start a diesel on a nice day. The orange tractor started and drove nicely. The green tractor started OK, but kind sounded tough (no clutch?). When I drove the green tractor, the whole tractor squealed like a cold hydraulic system (it was quiet when we were letting it warm up) - Probably the power steering, but anyway. It was a rough demo.

Both have great resale in my area, except that you can't find used orange ever unless you hit the used tractor dealer. The first green dealer didn't have any 4610/4710 size tractors and didn't seem real interested in helping me find one, selling mostly lawn equipment and gators. The second dealer was helpful, and had something other than MSRP to show me, but got a little fancy with his math. He showed me cost, then added in his prep fees, delivery, etc and then took his 10% (rounded up to 11 on his "worksheet"Wink yeah right margin he likes to have, and layed out the price. Seemed reasonable, until I realized that I was paying freight twice, margin on the setup, paying for a pallet, and then paying about $11 per loaded mile to deliver it 9 miles away. Having driven both, I liked orange, and the dealer was a lot easier to work with. I pretty much paid the orange dealer the price he was asking, because he didn't give me MSRP up front or play any games, and threw in thinks like quick-tach, block heater, and a few sets of wheel weights.

To pretty much seal the deal (green guys, cover your eyes!) my buddies, all engineers at deere, said that even with the deere employee discount, they still do better to buy orange or blue from their local dealers. Ouch! Coupled with the fact that their sole job has been to reduce the cost on each part, made the decision easy too.

Ultimatly, the way the dealer handled me made the difference. My orange dealer worked hard, and ended up delivering a 4330, 853 FEL, box blade, PHD, and BH90 backhoe in _ 4 days _. The quick delivery saved me some money on work I would have had to hire out, and the delivery and service has been fantastic.

I think the green is a great tractor, and basically, everyone who gave me input on this board was dead right:
---------------------------------------
1) Which Feels better (each person has preferences)?

2) Which dealer is going to provide the better experience?






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 02-13-2004, 18:05 Post: 76807
kwschumm



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Reducing the cost of each part is a major part of product engineering so they wouldn't be doing their job if they weren't. The idea is to make the part as inexpensive as possible and have it still do the job. Nothing wrong with that, it's when the parts don't do the job that trouble pops up So Sad

A guy I know who used to work for one of the Detroit automakers told me they selected the cheapest trim adhesive that would work in the region where the car was originally sold. That may be why we used to see trim falling off half the cars in Phoenix on hot summer days Smile

Curious, though, if the JD CUTs are basically Yanmars why your JD friends would be working on part pricing. Maybe they were talking about the BIG IRON.

Employee discounts often aren't that great. A recent thread had a guy who worked at CNH finding better prices without using his employee discount.

I had to drive 80 miles to find a decent Kubota dealer when shopping (Moen machinery in Gresham Oregon, great guys). The guy closest to me couldn't have been worse to deal with. The dealer certainly makes a difference.






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 02-13-2004, 18:26 Post: 76809
grinder

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Kubota vs the JD:
I am surprised at the number of times I have read on this
forum about the attitude of Deere dealers. I too tried to buy a JD but the two local dealers both had the "take it or leave it" thing going. I left it. Why is this? Is there
a special class they take at the JD school of how to not sell a tractor? Some of these guy's couldn't sell a bucket of water at a fire!
I think they are probably about equal machines. Just an observation. Anybody agree with me about the dealers or
is it my imagination?






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 02-13-2004, 18:38 Post: 76811
kwschumm



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I think you're probably right about the arrogance of a lot of JD dealers, but I didn't run across that. I suppose they'd rather spend their time selling a $250k piece of equipment than a $15k one. The CUTs sort of fall in the middle - some of the JD lawn & garden dealers don't sell anything bigger than a garden tractor, and the full-line dealers would often rather sell the big stuff. Kubota dealers often don't deal with big equipment so selling a CUT is what they're all about. Not defending it, but that seems to be the current reality.

FWIW, the Kubota dealer I first went to deals a lot with big wineries and rental companies and didn't want to talk to me if I was only buying one tractor. So it's not just a JD problem, but probably more so than Kubota.






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 02-13-2004, 19:26 Post: 76812
plugger



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 Kubota vs John Deere Compact Tractors Review

I to tried to deal with the green but the two dealers I went to seemed to care less if they sold me one, So I ended up with the orange,,,And glad I did! I love it so far.






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 02-14-2004, 01:29 Post: 76823
agentorange



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I must say that my local JD dealer, John at Peninsula Feed was top-notch. Very professional and knowledgable. He wanted to sell me a green one and I will send him a note telling him how it all came down. There was a guy at a dealer out of town that was a bit annoying. It was my first JD sales confrontation. I shut him down and moved-on.

I also must note that the most knowledgeable, friendly, professional Kubota dealer I talked to I did not buy from. It was an interesting situation that I'll explain possibly later this weekend.

kwschumm-- what a righteous-looking front bucket you have, I can't help but hum the "Jaws" theme when viewing it. What's that called? New building coming? Me too. A Miracle Truss 30 x 48 w/ 14' eaves arrives in May.

Thanks to all for your replies, insight, and welcome.
Yes indeed it's nice to have choices.

I'll let you know how the CFO does on the unit.
Tractor that is.

have an above-average weekend


...ao






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 02-14-2004, 10:36 Post: 76836
kwschumm



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Agentorange, that is a BoDozer grapple, made by Borgford. I've got a regular bucket too, but the grapple is awesome for handling all the slash and trees I deal with on our tree farm. The dealer didn't know about those when I bought and since then has sold a bunch of them. They're great for all the woodland owners in our area.

I'm envious of your upcoming steel building. How much research did you do before ordering your Miracle Truss building? Why did you choose them? And, if you don't mind, what is a ballpark price for a Miracle Truss building of that size?






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