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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2007-05-26          142492

I bought a Stihl MS290 chainsaw to replace my old worn-out Husky 136 consumer grade saw. The Stihl is awesome but after a few hours the extra 3+ lbs of weight takes it's toll. I'm looking at buying one of the smaller Stihl saws, like the MS250, which is lighter and easier to use on smaller jobs. Are the smaller Stihl saws as well built as their larger brethren?

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2007-05-26          142493

I've worked with some professional tree cutters. All they use---me too (I'm a contractor, not a tree guy)--is Stihl. The tree guys call the smaller saw "trim saws".

I used to buy Husqvarna, but not after a crappy cutoff saw I had.

I have a 760 or 790 (I think) Stihl 16" diameter cutoff saw which is basically the same as a chain saw---almost 7hp! And it's h-e-a-v-y. I used it cut open jewelry store safes in the Lower 9th Ward, Louisana from Katrina. ....

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2007-05-26          142498


The 290 never impressed me as much as the 260! ....

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
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2007-05-26          142502

The professionals use professional grade; which equates with medium and heavy duty equipment. Consumers (such as myself) prefer lighter weight equipment, which pretty much equates with light duty.

My old 80s vintage McCollough started to takes it's toll on my arthritis - I guess maybe it could have been considered medium duty - so I went shopping for something lighter; specifically Stihl or Husqvarna. I ended up with an 025C (the predecesor to the MS250) which was the most horsepower available at the time, in the lightest head. I was told it the fault of the EPA, but this saw is all RPMs and no torque. I wore myself out sectioning one hickory trunk for firewood, and ended up actually finishing the job with the old McCollough.

Tried to find a Husqvarna dealer that was interested in taking a slightly used Stihl in trade - they weren't interested.

//greg// ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2007-05-27          142507

Ken,

I purchased a Stihl MS 192T. I had been eye balling the Stihl MS 192T for quite awhile. I needed a reliable and servicable limbing saw for when I am out cutting firewood. For the past 15 years I have been using a Homelite Super 2 which as been a real trooper but the plastic and rubber tanks, oil, and fuel lines are getting real old and the thing leaks like a siv. Parts are getting tougher to find if you can find them at all and it smokes like a freight train. It finally seized up about a month ago.

The Stihl MS 192T is very light and well balanced. I went with the 192 T primarily because of top handle equipped throttle trigger and it comes with an attachment anchor loop for a lanyard it you are climbing up a tree to do some work. Where I live is a forestry industry town and the guy at the Stihl Saw Shop had never seen an MS 192 T before be he even commented about how well he liked the feel and light weight. This saw performs unbelievably well limbing oak tree tops for its big brother the O-66 I have used for the past 14 years to cut firewood. Weighing in at a tad over 16 pounds, the O-66 is a cuttin' haus but it gets mighty heavy after several hours cutting and limbing tree tops. The dealer evern threw in a free 6 pack of Stihl 2.5 gallon size 2 stroke mix.

The 192T runs for a long time on a tank of fuel and I can cut a pickup load of tree top limbs on a tank usually. Having a really big and really small saw seems to work well as I can cut up the tree top limbs with the 192T and saw up the remaining large logs with the O-66.

Another think I like about the MS192T is that its small size and light weight make it ideal to take out on the trail on the ATV to clean up low lieing branchs and trees that fall across the trails provided they are not too large. The MS200T is the professional grade saw but it cost $500 vs. the $279 for the 192T.

The top handle and throttle allow you to cut with one hand and pull the cut pieces out of the way with the other. I highly recommend this saw.

If the MS 290 get too heavy for you, the MS 250 is not going to make much difference as the 290 weighs about 13 lbs. vs. the 250 weighing about 10 lbs. The 192T wieghs about 6 1/2 lbs. Use the 290 for the big stuff and the 192 for the small stuff.

....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2007-05-27          142509

Randy, thanks for the pointer. I've also concluded that one saw won't do it all. The 290 easily takes out a 18" tree but limbing is a real chore. The little Husky 136 was a compromise that would struggle on a larger trees and wasn't ideal for limbing either. It was a heck of a saw for the price and if a dealer was closer the choice between Husky & Stihl would be tough. At 7 lbs the 192T does look like it would take the work out of limbing and the top handle control looks really good. I think I'll pick one up. ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2007-05-28          142535

I think you will be very impressed as well as satisfied with the 192T Ken. It sure did make a BIG difference in how much and how fast I could cut up large tree tops as well as limbs up to about 8 inches in diameter but I try to stick with nothing more than about 4 inches and save the larger stuff for the O-66. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2007-06-02          142676

Randy, I bought a MS192T and used it for a few hours this afternoon. It's a real joy to use and is definitely a winner. It makes short work out of limbing these tall firs without tuckering a guy out. Thanks for the tip! ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2007-06-03          142689

Glad to hear you like it. For such a small chainsaw it is a real haus and gets a lot of work done on a tank of gas. Did you get the 14 inch bar? Very welcome. I should have mentioned that you should get the stihl sharpening kit pouch that comes with the file hold file and handle. The smaller chain is real easy to sharpen and so far lasts about 5 tanks of gas between sharpenings. ....

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2007-06-04          142712


Hey Greg, we take both makes in trade on a regular basis and we do see people swapping both ways but it's normally from wrong applications of sizes that causes the change. I like the pro models of both over the home owners. Lot's more torque and horsepower from both. ....

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greg_g
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Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2007-06-04          142713

I agree completely Art. Although I can't help but wonder if there aren't different EPA standards for commercial two strokes as opposed to consumer-grade stuff. There was nothing mechanically wrong with my vintage McCollough, other than the weight versus arthritis issue (elbows). I thought I was trading straight across for a saw with equal or better capabilities. Well - it may have looked that way on paper, but it sure didn't work out that way in the field.

Then again - since the high rpm/low torque is an EPA thing - I might be a Husky owner wishing I'd bought a Stihl, instead of the other way around.

//greg// ....

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Art White
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2007-06-04          142721


Greg, with Stihl saws the pro's are lighter!!!!! The Husky's normally are using the same frame for the most part for a saw size grouping.
The real difference comes with the engine porting and way they are built between the pro's and homeowner semi/pro models. The pro's push out a lot more ponies then the home owner series.

To look at them here is a comparision of the 361 which has a 3.6 cu in engine and produces 4.4 horsepower at 12.3lbs compared to the 310's 3.6 cu in engine which produces 4 horsepower at 13 lbs. ....

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greg_g
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2007-06-05          142733

Well, the toll on my arthritis taken by the 12-13 pound McCollough's is what made me decide to retire it. The Stihl 025C head weighed in at 10.3 pounds, but they still managed to squeeze 3hp outa 2.7cc. On paper that looked good; light and comparatively powerful. In the field, it turned out to be light. Period.

//greg// ....

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Art White
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2007-06-05          142739


Greg, for what you were cutting I'd have sold you a bigger saw if that was all that you were cutting of hickory. There are differences in chain as to a saw's cut ability. We like the stihl chain for all saws although our local oregon dealer who also a dealer for both makes of saws say's I'm missing a profit oppertunity! ....

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greg_g
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2007-06-05          142741

Yeah, hindsight is 20/20 Art. The old 18" McCollough went through that hickory just fine. On paper, it seemed that a Stihl with the same displacement and horsepower and Oregon bar/chain should perform similarly (or better considering the age difference). The only real (external) difference between the two saws was the weight. And of course the comparatively poor performance of the new Stihl against the old McCollough.

I don't section hickory on a regular basis, it just happened to be the job that the McCollough was engaged in at the time I bought the Stihl. I've since simply relegated the Stihl to the roll of trimming saw. A little heavy for trimming, but it beats buying a new saw to replace another (almost) new saw.

//greg// ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2007-06-05          142742

Greg, it sounds like the chain is more at fault than the saw is.

There is a HUGE difference in how the chain will cut different types of wood depending on the gauge of the saw chain. Each cutting tooth has, just in front of the sharp part, a little stub that is rounded over back towards the cutting face, this is the depth gauge.

If the gauge is too tall the cutting face is only able to take a small bite out the wood because the depth gauge is holding the cutting face away from the wood more. Conversely, if the tooth is too short, each tooth is able to dig in deeper taking a bigger bite.

If the gauge is not set right, according to the length of chain / wood contact, and the hardness of the wood, then you will either be making just sawdust, and not chips, or the teeth will be really biting in, trying to take too much at once, and bogging the saw down.

We keep a variety of chains with usually two different sharpenings, soft and hard wood, with each saw and change them over as conditions change.

Best of luck. ....

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greg_g
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2007-06-05          142748

Thanks Murf. I understand what you're saying, I've been doing this for 20 years myself. Anyway, I mentioned above that both the McCollough and the Stihl were running 18" Oregon bars and chains. Additionally, the McCollough bar/chains were well used. But the Stihl had a new outa the box bar and 3 chains stated by Oregon to be specifically for the 025C

Specific to the hickory, the old McCollough didn't need much more than it's own weight to make a reasonably straight section. The shiny new Stihl needed almost constant constant down pressure, which actually caused chain stoppage at times. I wasn't impressed. It got so aggravating that I finally I got the old McCollough back out to finish the job.

But I still parted with the old Mac, simply because of the weight factor. Still got the Stihl, I just don't let it get near hickory trunks anymore.

//greg// ....

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Art White
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2007-06-06          142755


Greg, we have sold oregon chain in the past and it doesn't seem to hold an edge on high rpm saws from we or our customers have told us. The part of having to hold it down tells me that is the bulk of your problem.

We had a fellow twenty plus years ago that worked across the street, he was good freinds with another Stihl dealer and he told me I was twenty dollars to high! It was probably a month later he was in and wanted to buy a bigger saw and knowing what he was cutting I told him something was wrong. I handed him my saw which was one size smaller, I'd actually brought it in to have one of the boys put a fresh edge on the chain. He dropped it into some wood out front and when he came back in he accused me of having it souped up! I asked him why he thought that and he told me he never saw his saw throw as big of chips! I gave him a new stihl chain for his saw to cut with for the next weekend and he came back in and bought several as well as some for his cutting partners. He didn't swap saws just the chain! ....

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greg_g
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2007-06-06          142756

You obviously know what you're talking about Art - and I respect that. But I also think you missed the part where I said the old McCullough outperformed the new Stihl while BOTH were using model-specific Oregon bars and chains.

Or am I the one missing something? Perhaps you're suggesting that the high rpm/low torque difference between two saws using the same chain is the cause. If so, is the answer to switch to Stihl chains? or to something else?

Oh, and I apologize to the OP - I'm afraid I'm guilty of hijacking here. On the bright side, perhaps some of the answers I get may apply to your situation.

//greg// ....

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kwschumm
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Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2007-06-06          142763

I've switched to Stihl chains too, originally because that's what the nearest dealer carries, but they do seem to hold an edge better and the chips are larger compared to brand new Oregon chains I've used. ....

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Art White
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2007-06-06          142766



It's really a matter of sharpening to a degree but the stihl chain holds an edge better then oregon from what we've seen. On high RPM saws the stihl is a better performer and what you should have had Greg is to hold the saw up to keep it from taking to much. ` I don't know the vintage of your Mac but they did have some good saws too!

Every thing that I work with is the non-anti kickback chain and that would make a difference in the way it wil cut. ....

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