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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
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2006-08-29          133783

This is an actual letter sent to a man named Ryan DeVries by the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Quality, State of Pennsylvania . This guy's response is hilarious, but read the State's letter before you get to the response letter.

SUBJECT: DEQ File No.97-59-0023; T11N; R10W, Sec. 20; Lycoming County

Dear Mr. DeVries:

It has come to the attention of the Department of Environmental Quality that there has been recent unauthorized activity on the above referenced
parcel of property. You have been certified as the legal landowner and/or contractor who did the following unauthorized activity:

Construction and maintenance of two wood debris dams
across the outlet stream of Spring Pond.

A permit must be issued prior to the start of this type of activity.

A review of the Department's files shows that no permits have been issued. Therefore, the Department has determined that this activity is in violation of Part 301, Inland Lakes and Streams, of the Natural Resource and Environmental Protection Act, Act 451 of the Public Acts of 1994, being sections 324.30101 to 324.30113 of the Pennsylvania Compiled Laws, annotated.

The Department has been informed that one or both of the dams partially failed during a recent rain event, causing debris and flooding at downstream locations. We find that dams of this nature are inherently hazardous and
cannot be permitted. The Department therefore orders you to cease and desist all activities at this location, and to restore the stream to a free-flow condition by removing all wood and brush forming the dams from the stream channel. All restoration work shall be completed no later than January 31, 2006.

Please notify this office when the restoration has been completed so that a follow-up site inspection may be scheduled by our staff.

Failure to comply with this request or any further unauthorized activity on the site may result in this case being referred for elevated enforcement action..

We anticipate and would appreciate your full cooperation in this matter. Please feel free to contact me at this office if you have any questions.

Sincerely,
David L. Price
District Representative and Water Management Division.


Here is the actual response sent back by Mr. DeVries:

Re: DEQ File No. 97-59-0023; T11N; R10W, Sec. 20; Lycoming County

Dear Mr. Price,

Your certified letter dated 12/17/02 has been handed to me to respond to.
I am the legal landowner but not the Contractor at
2088 Dagget Lane, Trout Run, Pennsylvania.

A couple of beavers are in the (State unauthorized) process of constructing and maintaining two wood "debris" dams across the outlet stream of my Spring Pond. While I did not pay for, authorize, nor supervise their dam project,
I think they would be highly offended that you call their skillful use of natures building materials "debris." I would like to challenge your department to attempt to emulate their dam project any time and/or any place you choose.
I believe I can safely state there is no way you could ever match their dam skills, their dam resourcefulness, their dam ingenuity, their dam persistence, their dam determination and/or their dam work ethic.

As to your request, I do not think the beavers are aware that they must first fill out a dam permit prior to the start of this type of dam activity.

My first dam question to you is:
(1) Are you trying to discriminate against my Spring Pond Beavers, or
(2) do you require all beavers throughout this State to conform to said dam request?

If you are not discriminating against these particular beavers, through the Freedom of Information Act, I request completed copies of all those other applicable beaver dam permits that have been issued. Perhaps we will see if there really is a dam violation of Part 301, Inland Lakes and Streams, of the Natural Resource and Environmental Protection Act, Act 451 of the
Public Acts of 1994, being sections 324.30101 to 324.30113 of the Pennsylvania Compiled Laws, annotated.

I have several concerns. My first concern is, aren't the beavers entitled to legal representation? The Spring Pond Beavers are financially destitute and are unable to pay for said representation -- so the State will have to
provide them with a dam lawyer. The Department's dam concern that either one or both of the dams failed during a recent rain event, causing flooding, is proof that this is a natural occurrence, which the Department is required to protect. In other words, we should leave the Spring Pond Beavers alone rather than harassing them and calling their dam names.

If you want the stream "restored" to a dam free-flow condition please contact the beavers -- but if you are going to arrest them, they obviously did not pay any attention to your dam letter, they being unable to read English.

In my humble opinion, the Spring Pond Beavers have a right to build their unauthorized dams as long as the sky is blue, the grass is green and water flows downstream. They have more dam rights than I do to live and enjoy Spring Pond. If the Department of Natural Resources
and Environmental Protection lives up to its name, it should protect the natural resources (Beavers) and the environment (Beavers' Dams).

So, as far as the beavers and I are concerned, this dam case can be referred for more elevated enforcement action right now. Why wait until 1/31/2006? The Spring Pond Beavers may be under the dam ice then and there will be no way for you or your dam staff to contact/harass them then.

In conclusion, I would like to bring to your attention to a real environmental quality, health, problem in the area. It is the bears! Bears are actually defecating in our woods. I definitely believe you should be persecuting the defecating bears and leave the beavers alone.

If you are going to investigate the beaver dam, watch your step! The bears are not careful where they dump!

Being unable to comply with your dam request, and being unable to contact you on your dam answering machine, I am sending this response to your dam office.

THANK YOU.
RYAN DEVRIES & THE DAM BEAVERS




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DenisS
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2006-08-29          133784

I love it!

:) ....

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SG8NUC
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2006-08-29          133787

dam ....

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oneace
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2006-08-30          133799

That is way too funny. ....

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wingwiper
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2006-08-30          133805

The fact that this happened, is TRUE, the dates and places are wrong. This actually happened in 1997
http://www.snopes.com/humor/letters/dammed.htm ....


Link:   Link to Dam Article

 
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kthompson
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2006-08-30          133815

WW,

I should have checked it first. But as you point out it is true other than the year and it is Michigan. Guess this is why companies started leaving there.

But the fact a person or people in such authority are so STUPID is sad. It is good when such is able to be shared. I do wonder if the government employee who wrote such has retired with FULL Government Benefits.

Aren't you the one who is taxed on the view or such of their property. I was telling a builder about that at lunch today and he asked how can you be taxed on a non tangible? Can they sell the view at auction if you don't pay taxes on the view?

kt ....

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Murf
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2006-08-30          133817

Kenneth, the same thing is true of property taxes up here too.

I have a neighbour at the lake who bought a "kit" home as a cottage a few years back, he bought it because he saw one just like it being built a few miles down the road that we are at the far end of. My neighbours land and is significantly smaller (0.5 acre vs 10 acres), is not on a publicly maintained stretch of road, we all chip in to do it out-of-pocket, we have no garbage pick up, no school bus at the end of the driveway, it stops 5 miles south of us. Yet my neighbour pays more than 4 times the taxes of the guy down the road who has all the land and services.

Why? Because my neighbour looks out his front window at a lake instead of a forest.

Go figure.

Best of luck.

....

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SG8NUC
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2006-08-30          133818

KT

The numbnuts that wrote the mentioned article was more than likley told to do so by someone that WE VOTED IN. The government fantasy crap that is shoveled out is so far removed from reality that noone can tell the difference. The GS-2 that mailed the letter more than likely has a real sorry job ($8 to $10 hr in a 8x8 cube)and mailed 5,000 form letters the same day. It is a DAMN shame. ....

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kthompson
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2006-08-30          133821

SG,

I would say there is a good possibility you are correct. There really are some very great people who work for our different governments. There is even one or two great elected ones. Well could be 3 or 4 total. I do realize there are more good ones than the bad ones, just it only takes one missing tooth in a gear to make a lot of noise and stop all the work.

If it was a bottom level person who sent the letter or any level for that matter because an elected person said to, we all know who's fault it was and it sure was not the elected person's.


Murf,

It makes no sense.

My sister in Illionis has run into a mess on taxes also. She has the smaller lot and with less road frontage and such (no view) but highest value. They gave her all kind of reasons without stepping foot on her property why she should pay more. She found one employee who said they are totally off but you will have to force them as a certain level manager was offended the rate was questioned. Seems he had set it. Probably time to take him fishing...


As least we can contest, tell about, make fun of such. Just think in many countries you have no taxes as you own nothing. ....

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SG8NUC
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2006-08-30          133823

KT
You are the smartest person I know. LOL EW should love that. There are some fine, smart, upstanding, educated, pillars of the community that work for the government yours truly being # one. In all truth alot of what you pointed out is true. There is alot to be desired with the way this company I work for is managed, but it is nice to work for a company that makes its own money.LOL ....

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DenisS
Join Date: May 2006
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2006-08-31          133854

Most of them government employees are nice people on an individual level. It's when you lump them all together into a GOVERNMENT that you get a mess. I wish there was a planet I could go to and grab some acreage and just be left alone. But NO, long before you know, there will be government officials coming on the tails of their army and police forces trying to convince me at the point of a gun that I need that service and this service and that I need to help those less fortunate, so why don't I give some money for no service at all, and then, of course, I have to pony up something for the administrators who will run the whole damn thing. And so, to hell in a hand-basket, goes my brand new, not-so-long uninhabited, planet. Kind of like the US.

A practical question: what if I dug up my own pond and built a house that had a view of it? Do I get taxed extra on my own labor that I didn't even get paid for? ....

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kthompson
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2006-08-31          133864

SG,

The smartest person line...thought on that when EW asked you on it. Could be true. Start off with the dumbest and moving from dumbest up each one you could honestly say to "you are the smartest person". So you called EW that before me, LOL


DenisS and Murf and WW,

Just thunking (not really thinking but close) let us suppose a person is being taxed for the view from their property. Do they charge them for this if they were to be blind?

Taking this just a little further along the stupid trail, guess a lot of people that Katrina wiped out the buildings and trees betweent them and the ocean now are taxed on the ocean's view. Yep they probably will need to hit them on this big improvement in their lands value. ....

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wingwiper
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2006-08-31          133869

KT
I had a 10% Property assessment added for Views. I grieved last year, for when i bought the house 21 years ago, there was a great view, I could look West over 130 miles ( I am 2000' on the Western side of the Green Mountains on the Eastern Side of the Champlain Valley ) After 21 years the Trees grew to the point, that even when I clean my chimney, I can not see anything but Leaves. So I called them on it and had my taxes reduced. Guess they didn't realize that Trees Grow and block views.
I also offered to sell my place on the spot for what the State Assessed me for and I told them, I would even throw in the JD and be gone in 72 hours.
The other joke is this, they tell you what the property is worth and you pay your taxes accordingly. Well when I bought my house it had been on the market for 2 years. I made an offer for $26,000 less than appraised value and they said SOLD. I went and chanllenged the Taxes and told them, the house wasn't worth what you all said it was, because it didn't sell and I made the BEST offer for $26,000 less and that is what I should be paying the taxes on... WRONG! they left it at the appraised value. So just how real do they want the appraisals? ....

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Murf
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2006-08-31          133871

In our case it 'used to be' that you had higher assessments for waterfront, not for views, but then a sharp lawyer (there are some) realized that in most cases there is a 66' shore road allowance around most lakes, so most people DIDN'T HAVE waterfront property, they were across an imaginary road from it. Many people won an appeal based on this so they changed it.

Now people do things like appealling their assessmsnt based on an eyesore like a cell phone tower with a blinking red light within sight of their lands. LOL.

Up here you can actually get a discount on your taxes for digging a pond, two discounts in some cases. Since all "navigable waters" in Canada are public, they can't tax you on it. So, if you owned a 500 acre property, and 400 of it was a lake, you would only pay taxes on 100 acres of what you "owned". Likewise with a pond, if you have a 20 acre parcel, with a 5 acre pond, you only pay taxes on 15 acres of land. If your pond is near the street, like mine is, and you sign an agreement with the municipality, like I have, that in the case of a fire you will allow the fire dept. to use your pond as a source of water for fire-fighting, they give you a small discount also.

This in my mind is dumb though, the fire dept. should have the automatic right to enter your property and pump your pond in the case of an emergency, subject only to the liability for thier actions as far as damage, etc.

Best of luck. ....

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Art White
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2006-09-02          133914

The problem with government is they are trying to be a big buisness. There first concern is for job security so they have to show they are doing something which of coarse costs money. Why tax and give refunds, why not just lower the tax? When refunds are issued it means they need more people in the government to do the job! AHH, now the boss has a little security! They also are going to need a few percent more of the money to assit in this fine program. This is a type of cancer that has taken over the country. They don't do it because of efficiency, it's just the way the government works. They can raise taxes, buisness can only raise prices so far before the consumer finds another source. It's to bad but I believe we have entered socialism as the number of government workers, take them all from towns and villages, counties, state and federal levels, add your teachers of public schools and the bus drivers and rest of the staff, your police forces and prision gaurds and support staff, lets not forget the people that are on the government programs for a living and you probably would find we are getting close to having more in the government then carring the GNP. ....

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ncrunch32
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2006-09-02          133915

In my area the state is the second largest employer after IBM. IBM has been holding salaries flat for several years, while the government is raising my school taxes 6-8% per year. It will be almost impossible to retire where I live. Like Art says, there are no controls on tax increases. If taxpayers complain and vote the budget down the taxes increase anyway because of past contracts signed by the school teachers. Where does it end? Will the state and local government employees help feed me while I am living in my cardboard box in a few years? What type of box do you recommend? A refigerator box may work well. Can I fit a sleeping bed and a small table there? Maybe I will afford to keep my cell phone :) ....

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DenisS
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2006-09-02          133918

I get apoplectic every time I read wingwiper's tax assessment story. the gall these people have...

As I review my August paycheck and notice that I'm missing about 45% of my pay, a thought crosses my mind that government is a punishment from God, and, as we know, the loving father spareth not his rod.

I think we should accept the abuse from our government with all obedience and humility - it's only fitting since we're the ones responsible for it's existance. If we're not willing to do what it takes to "reform" this government, then there's no point in crying. ....

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Billy
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2006-09-02          133921

DenisS

You gotta look at it a different way. For every hard working tax paying Joe/Jane, there's 4 or 5 on some kind of freebie government program.

If you were running for some political office, which would you cater to? ;) ....

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lbrown59
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2006-09-03          133926

I had a 10% Property assessment added for Views. I grieved last year, for when i bought the house 21 years ago, there was a great view, I could look West over 130 miles ( I am 2000' on the Western side of the Green Mountains on the Eastern Side of the Champlain Valley ) After 21 years the Trees grew to the point, that even when I clean my chimney, I can not see anything but Leaves. So I called them on it and had my taxes reduced. Guess they didn't realize that Trees Grow and block views.
I also offered to sell my place on the spot for what the State Assessed me for and I told them, I would even throw in the JD and be gone in 72 hours.
The other joke is this, they tell you what the property is worth and you pay your taxes accordingly. Well when I bought my house it had been on the market for 2 years. I made an offer for $26,000 less than appraised value and they said SOLD. I went and chanllenged the Taxes and told them, the house wasn't worth what you all said it was, because it didn't sell and I made the BEST offer for $26,000 less and that is what I should be paying the taxes on... WRONG! they left it at the appraised value. So just how real do they want the appraisals?

Reply :My county don't know S from apple butter about prperty values .
....

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DenisS
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2006-09-05          133961

Billy,

I'm with you on that one. Can't expect the pols to do what is right by us; they've created their own self-sustaining power base. Like Art said, government is a cancer, and cancers are very smart about their survival.

The thing about cancers is, they don't go away by persuasion like a mild depression and you can't wait them out like a cold. You either poison them with chemicals or cut them out. In either case, the rest of the body suffers, but is better off in the long run. IMHO, we're overdue for a surgery. ....

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WillieH
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2006-09-06          134001

kt ~
When I read your post, I received a dose of humor that was well needed today....THANK YOU !
In some lights, it is just plain pitiful as it has been pointed out to actually be true, but humerous nonetheless.
I was rolling!

WW ~
Much like yourself, I too was hit with an appraisal of view. My house is on the west side of the Green Mountains along the east side of Champlain. I was told that I have a view so I must be assessed for that too. I argued the fact that the only view I have is that of a large, ugly rock formation to see across the lake. I am not a rock climber, so the rock bears no intrigue. I am not an archeologist, so it offers no desire to examine the monument for artifacts.
It sits in the way of what could be a nice view, but I have no way of telling for it blocks any view I might have....NO SALE !

On another piece of property located across the small town road from my house, I have a 1895 ca. built ice house - now used as a small barn.
the town had an appraiser come in from Stowe VT some years ago, when the state thought they new what they were doing...the first time! To balance the town appraisals state wide, they had ridiculous appraisals being made across the board.
This open grass lot (with a few trees), was assessed for a driveway, running water, power, and of course the barn.

I argued ALOT during the appeal process. You'll love this! I was told you must enter the lot to access your barn, hence a driveway. You have a river at the back edge of your lot, so you have running water. CVPS (Central Vermont Public Service) power lines, and Verizon Telephone lines run thru your lot, so you have power in your yard. Your barn is x feet by x feet, so it is worth x dollars.

Bottom line is that a neighbor had built a barn/garage nearly the same size in 1995+/-. Nearly 100 years newer than mine, my assessment was for some $10000.00 more than his was! He has actual electricity in his barn, he has windows - thermal pane, he has a view of the lake from his garage, and he has a driveway. GO FIGURE!

This assessment was back in 1995 time frame, and I am still fighting with the town to recognize that the current assessments were based on erroneous information cited by appraisers that had NO clue way back when. Honestly...it is pathetic.

So kt, ....as taxes are coming due by October 5th again, your dam story was a sure an enjoyable laugh!
I think we should all enjoy some dam beaver (story) now and again! lol

- Willie H ....

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kthompson
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2006-09-06          134005

If nothing else has been shown by the beavers and their dam is the need for us to be envolved in our government.

That also means running for office as the saying goes if the shoe fits.

I thank those such as WW and Willie H who made an effort to force a wrong tax issue, regardless of the results. At least they know people are watching. When we quit carring it will die.

kt ....

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Art White
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2006-09-06          134014

You will love this one, in a small local town a select property assement board lowered all of their taxes! They weren't quite that bad, they also lowered a couple of close associates! So they did spread the towns losses over a few more people but they didn't do enough of them as a couple of people in the local government noticed and publicized that they helped themselves in the cookie jar! Sunday's paper had a article about more jobs from the government coming to the area and that it is always good to have more government jobs even with the private sector jobs leaving, and the best part of it is he stated with more private jobs we really should be adding more even more to the government! He then went on to say that teachers are private sector! See how many years you don't pay your school taxes before your home gets sold! Love those socialists! ....

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Iowafun
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2006-09-06          134021

Sometimes the assessors are idiots. My parents fought their tax assessment and won. Their house is over 50 years old. The assessor defended the big hike because homes in the area had sold at x and y prices. My parents pointed out those homes were built that year vs their 50+ year old house. They have larger lots. They have more Sq footage. etc etc. Reason won out and they got the assessment lowered. They also offered to sell it to the city for that assessment price. City didn't bite as they knew they weer completely off base. ....

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Peters
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2006-09-06          134023

The private assessors are not always on the ball either.

I number of years ago I was buying a lake house in MA. The apprentice assessor schedules an appointment to view the property the day and time of the total eclipse of the sun. In the middle it gets dark and I run to the dock to take a look with my reflective foil. He asks me why it is getting so dark and why I keep running to the dock. Naturally he does not seem to me to be a leading light in the community.

When the appraisal comes back I know his bulb is really out. He has it much lower than the city appraisal, which is normally at least 10 percent lower than the market value and agreed to price, which was below market value. The comp properties are not in the area limits or time limits for a standard appraisal. In fact none are in the township I am purchasing the house in. None have acreage like the 2 acre lot mine had. I complain to his advisor, with no response. He is the brightest candidate they have. The bank then has to pay for a second appraisal and I am left with the added work and time. ....

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DenisS
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2006-09-06          134024

what's the root of the word assessor? that's all they are. just weren't smart enough to answer the pnone at customer service.

I had an appraiser fail my kitchen once since the new countertops weren't installed yet. No matter - the house has no functional kitchen, there goes the appraisal. ....

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ncrunch32
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2006-09-06          134031

Not long ago we had an assessor commit suicide as a ring of corruption was being uncovered by the authorities in the area. It seems everyone was on the take. I actually have some sympathy for the current assessor. I wanted to extend my poolyard patio, fence - he wanted architect drawings, my drawings weren't good enough for him. After 30 minutes of discussion he warmed up and told me how I needed to specify the building permit to minimize his involvement. He was most interested in not getting sued if any of the construction failed. Everything is just a game that costs you money. Hopefully you don't have to pay "extra" to get things done. ....

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ncrunch32
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2006-09-06          134032

And let me tell you about the electrical inspector when I installed my hot tub. The building inspector comes and tells me what electrical inspectors I can use. I call the electrical inspector and he tells me he will, for $75, tell me what I need to do to pass inspection. ....

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DenisS
Join Date: May 2006
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2006-09-07          134040

The building inspector in my old town threatened to have my new porch demolished because the builder didn't build the access stairs to code (one stair was 0.5" taller than the other). Even sent me a nasty letter saying that remedial work must be done or I can't use my porch. I called him to ask him what the hell was wrong with him and told him that he can deal with the builder himself. Never heard from the inspector again and the stairs remained as "unsafe" as the day they were built. I bet Mr. Ben Franklin settled the matter. ....

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wingwiper
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2006-09-07          134048

WOW!
You all need permission to build a porch or install a Hot Tub?? I guess my worries are smaller than originally thought.
If I own my own house, I do not have to have any of my work inspected. I have had wiring done, a porch built, and basement dug out. Out buildings built and a Sugar Shack built. No inspectors only listers who try to come snooping around and I tell them they have to leave. You DO NOT have to allow any Lister onto your property here and if you don't you will get an AVERAGE Listing for everything. That may well be an added bonus and for some it can raise taxes if you have Below Average and they grade you for Average.
You all seem to have Socialism at work when City Governments are telling you what you can and can not do with your own land. Try this " defination of OWNERSHIP is to deprive others of usage and enjoyment of said property" I looked it up years ago in a Websters Unabridged Dictionary that was about 75 years old and a foot thick. I went to a Town Meeting where the Town was trying to tell a Property Owner that he could NOT operate a Slate cutting business on his land (I live in the sticks) so I gave them the quote and then said "If the Town feels they can deprive Jim from operating his Slate cutting, then they are depriving Jim usage of said property. In that case the Town would be considered the OWNER and since the OWNER of said Property has to pay the Property Taxes, the Town needs to consider how they will get their taxes paid. Dsicussion soon took on a New outlook. Sometimes people need to be told they do not have the power they assume they have. If you allow them to execute self proclaimed powers, then YOU lose. Yes! I know Zoning is an issue and has been since the 1700s. Zoning is to protect others from forced devaluations NOT to give others unchallangeable control of your property. If the landowner is not going to contaminate the Land, Water or Air then whose business is it anyways? Why do some people feel they know best for someone else? If you don't like my land, MOVE.
Have you all been paying attention to the changes in Eminient Domain Laws across the land, the new Laws that are preventing Local Governmets from abusing their duties? Many people sat on their hands and allowed Local Governments to just move in and take over. Now the spot lights have been turned on and sweeping changes are being made IN FAVOR of the little guy.
When the Estate Tax Appeal was defeated, it was a leading DEMOCRAT who said "They owe it to the country that has given them the oppurtunities", it is that way of thinking that has turned people against government. The Voice of a single man who feels the money belongs to the Government and not the earner has made the Democrats look bad yet again. The Government is BY the People, OF the people and FOR the people and if we all just sit on our hands, then we get what we deserve. You all must challenge and speak up, demand proof, call a Spade a Spade and be open about your feelings.
Newt Ginrich said that this Government was built on EQUALITY and that we do NOT BOW to Royalty and therefore a Senator is NOT referred to as Senator John Smith but as Mr. Smith or John, when the people add title to the name, they are putting government above themselves. They are handing the soap box to the elected REPRESENTATIVE. The ONLY person in Government that is called by title is the President and that is only for RESPECT, same as a person with a degree may be called Dr. Don't allow yourselves to be rated less than and you won't be. ....

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Peters
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2006-09-07          134060

Here we also have no codes and no inspectors. I think the map on the following link tells the tale.

The ownership concept only works if you own it and live in it forever. If no one cuts corners and does his best there is no problem, but human natures is such that we end up not knowing what is in the walls. ....


Link:   Ok health and safety

 
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DenisS
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2006-09-08          134079

Re: inspections vs. fire prevention.

Gotta disagree with you here. If I understand you correctly, you're linking stringent inspection regime with fire prevention. Although a strict regime may reduce the incidence of fires, the lack of it does not correlate well with the incidence of fire-related deaths (i.e. Wyoming has the lowest rate but is not known as an overregulated state, Idaho is 3rd lowest). Furthermore, federal funding for fire prevention does not necessarily translate into fire prevention (despite receiving this funding, the southern states and Alaska are still the highest in fire-related deaths).

But here is what I do see:

Quote from the link:
"African Americans and Native Americans are at higher risk for fire-related deaths than any other race or ethnicity."

Again, a nearly all white Wyoming, without regulations, manages to stay fire-free.

Conclusions:
-- Some folks have harder time dealing with modern amenities such as gas and electricity than others.
-- You can't pay your way out of stupidity.

....

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Peters
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2006-09-08          134087

Denis this is the only rates I could find which is death from fire not fire incident. There are a number reason for house fires and even with inspections someone can do something wrong.

Wyoming has state wide electrical codes and licencing of electricians. This is not the case in MS and AL. You can have regulations and not be burden some.

We lost a house and everything in MA do to a home owner breaking codes. We had the house inspected but you can not easily see in the walls. ....

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DenisS
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2006-09-08          134090

Eric,
Below are a few arcticles that deal with the more broad issue of accidental injury (of which fire-related morbidity/mortality is a part). I'm sure you can access them through your sci. lit. access service.

My point is that you cannot eliminate social problems by government regulation (including overbearing construction regulations). People have to address their problems on an individual level. Our problem is that responsible people end up under the same set of regulations that are meant to protect the irresponsible and stupid. Maybe safety regulations should only be applied to "stupid zones".

Durkin MS, Davidson LL, Kuhn L, et al. Low-income neighborhoods and the risk of severe pediatric injury: a small-area analysis in northern Manhattan. Am J Public Health 1994;84:587-92.

Bourguet CC, McArtor RE. Unintentional injuries. Risk factors in preschool children. Am J Dis Child 1989;143:556-9.

Pomerantz WJ, Dowd MD, Buncher CR. Relationship between socioeconomic factors and severe childhood injuries. J Urban Health 2001;78:141-51

Scholer SJ, Hickson GB, Ray WA. Sociodemographic factors identify US infants at high risk of injury mortality. Pediatrics 1999;103:1183-8.
....

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Peters
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2006-09-08          134203

Denis;
I am not for over regulation and an army of inspectors, but I am not sure no control is a utopia either. Part of the problem is the inspector’s willingness to work against the home owner, his employer rather than for him. I see a similar problem with the police in this country. Beaurocrats tend to bred more beaurocrats and create work for their children.

I see spec. houses going up in MS with no roof structure to speak of. If we ever have an ice storm again the roofs will be down. If we have another wind storm I will be picking up pieces of these roofs in my yard. We will all be paying the bill in our insurance rates. I feel sorry for the families that will buy these houses as most have no idea what to look for. ....

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DenisS
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2006-09-08          134208

You're right about the inspectors and beurocrats.

An inspector should be an optional safety feature for the homeowner, much like when you buy a house, you get an inspector to make sure you know what you're getting. It would be an easy task to scan the walls with a hand-held ultrasound device and see how good the frame is. Or go up in the attic and see how good the rafters are. The buyers need to take responsibility for what they are buying and when that happens, the builders will make sure they build quality homes or people won't buy them. Now, all they have to do is influence the specs legislature by buying off county and state officials, then claim that the house is sound according to the specs. BS! Let the private sector decide what is good enough and then the quality will go up.

I bet when you built your house, you didn't need an inspector to tell you how well you want it built. You took the responsibility to ensure that it was over and above the minimum specs. It would be nice if the system didn't stifle others from taking responsibility; let people make their own mistakes and make their own decisions, they might just learn something and be less reliant on government. Oh, I forgot, we wouldn't want that... ....

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