Alcohol and gas mix: Just For Fun Off Topic  -- Current Events Health Happiness Discussion Forum and Review Alcohol and gas mix: Just For Fun Off Topic -- Current Events Health Happiness Discussion Forum

  parts   |   manuals   |   discussion   |   photos   |   podcast   |   reviews   |   specs   |   dealers   |   classifieds   |   contact   |   faq   |   myProfile   |   home          Login Now | Sign Up


FAQ:   What is a tractor?

Forum Index

Kubota Tractors
  Kubota News
  Kubota Price
  Kubota Review
John Deere Tractors
  John Deere News
  John Deere Price
  John Deere Review
New Holland Tractors
  New Holland Tractor Price
  New Holland Tractor Revie
Other Tractor Brands
  Articulated Tractors
  Belarus
  Bobcat Tractors
  Case
  Cub Cadet
  Hinomoto
  Kioti Tractor
  Long
  Massey Ferguson
  Mitsubishi
  Other Tractor Brands
  Other Tractor News
  Shibaura
  Yanmar Tractors
Lawn and Garden Tractors
  Craftsman
  Cub Cadet Garden
  John Deere Garden
  Kubota Lawn Garden
  Other Garden Tractors
  Simplicity
  Toro Wheelhorse
  Ventrac Lawn Tractors
Antique Tractors
  Allis Chalmers
  Case David Brown
  Farmall IHC
  Ford
  Ford 9N 2N 8N
  Fordson
  Harry Ferguson
  John Deere Older
  Massey-Harris Ferguson
  Minneapolis Moline
  Oliver Cletrac Cockshutt
  Restoration
  Tractor Pulling
Tractor Attachments Implements 3ph
  Back Hoe
  Field Mowers Brush Cutter
  Grooming Mowers Finish Mo
  Loaders
  Snowblowers / Snow Plows
  Tillers and Ploughs
  Tractor Implements
  Trenchers
  Wood Chippers 3PH
Tractor Maintenance
  Diesel Fuel Lubrication E
  Tractor Engine Repair Reb
  Tractor Tires
Utility ATV
  All Terrain Vehicles
  John Deere Gator
  Mule Utility Vehicles
General Tractor
  Farming Ranching Agricult
  Photo Contest
  Size Tractor Needed
  Tractor Projects
  Tractor Safety
  Welding
Chinese Tractors
  Jinma Farmpro Agracat
  NorTrac Tractors
  Other Chinese Tractors
Cars
  All Brands
  Audi VW
  BMW
  Car Tires and Maintenance
  Chrysler
  Exotic, Sports, Racing
  Ford Cars
  General Motors
  Honda
  Hyundai
  Mercedes
  News
  Nissan
  Subaru
  SUV and Trucks
  Toyota Cars
Trucks Trailers
  Chevy Pickup Trucks
  Dodge Pickup Trucks
  Ford Pickup Trucks
  Toyota Pickup Trucks
  Chevy Pickup Trucks
  Dodge Pickup Trucks
  Ford Pickup Trucks
  Toyota Pickup Trucks
Home Building
  Alternate Electric Energy
  Barns Pole Barns
  Buying Ranch Farm Acreage
  Carpentry
  Contractors
  Electric
  Excavation
  Moldings Finish Trim
  Other Home Building
  Pellet Stoves
  Plumbing
  Wood Stoves
Tools
  Electirc Power Tools
  Gas Power Tools
  Generators
  Shop Tools
  Techniques Howto
Landscape
  Flowers Shrubs Garden
  Golf Course Maintenance
  Irrigation Systems
  Landscape Design
  Landscape Lighting
  Landscape Maintenance
  Lawn, Turf, and Grass
  Vegetable Gardening
Construction
  Caterpillar
  Komatsu
  Wheel Loaders
Current Events Health Happiness
  Current Events
  Dogs and other Pets
  Electronics And Computers
  Food
  Health
  Just For Fun Off Topic
  Movies Music Games
  Personal Finance Investme
  Sports Outdoors
Tractorpoint Site
  Member Photos
  Site Members
  Website Operations Howto


New As Posted | Active Subjects



Click to Post a New Message!

Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > Just For Fun Off Topic Forum

Page [ 1 ] | 2 | | Next >>
Reply | Pop Up Window Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo
 10-17-2005, 17:04 Post: 118052
shortmagnum

TP Contributor

View my Photos

View my Photos  Pics
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Wisconsin
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 848

3
Filter by User
 Alcohol and gas mix

After discussing the topic with a friend I noticed that the 90 octane gas that I was putting in my motorcycle gave piss poor mileage. Usually I can easily get 300 mi out of a tank of gas and the tank of 10% alcohol blend was flashing FUEL at only 250 miles. After putting in 91 octane of that same brand but without alcohol I'm back to getting 300+ miles.

I never noticed this in my truck because I burn the cheap 87 octane that has no alcohol. A one tank experiment doesn't answer all the questions but its starting to look like alcohol is mostly a filler if you get 10% less performance with a 10% alcohol mix. Others seem to be noticing the same.

Any thoughts out there?
Dave






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 10-17-2005, 19:26 Post: 118058
Peters

TP Contributor

View my Photos

View my Photos  Pics
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Northern AL
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 3034

3
Filter by User
 Alcohol and gas mix

I suspect it would depend on the engine, but your math is not correct. You are obtaining about 17% less milage with the 10% alcohol.
Alcohol is going to give you less BTU's per gallon just as the winter blend of diesel gives you less BTU's and worse economy. With a 10% mix it should only give you a little less.
Remember that you have 95/5 ethanol to water mix when they distill ethanol as it aziotropes at this ratio. To get higher you must back distill from another solvent like benzene. The alcohol in the fuel will absorb any water in the tanks. Therefore the local fuel retailer gets his tanks cleaned of condensation and you get more than the .5% water you originally had in the gas and considerably less performance. Naturally this applies not only to the local retailer but also to the bulk dealer, pipeline and the tank truck. Do we need a spot test to check for water in the gasoline?






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 10-17-2005, 20:56 Post: 118066
Iowafun

TP Contributor

View my Photos

View my Photos  Pics
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Central Iowa
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 955

4
Filter by User
 Alcohol and gas mix

Certain greenies push the ethanol blended gasoline as a way to cut emissions as the ethanol burns cleaner. But you do get less fuel mileage so you end up burning more fuel for the same distance negating some of the clean air gain.

Some vehicles react to the ethanol blend more than others. A motorcycle is one that will react more severely than say a car will. My bike is a high performance bike so I won't even consider putting an ethanol blend into it. If you bike is a touch more on the performance end or has been tweaked, then that may account for your more severe reaction to the ethanol blend.

I'm not a scientist and I have done no technical studies to support my hypothesis.






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 10-18-2005, 10:42 Post: 118092
Peters

TP Contributor

View my Photos

View my Photos  Pics
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Northern AL
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 3034

3
Filter by User
 Alcohol and gas mix

Well I am a scientist and engineer, but too lazy to look up all the numbers in Perrys etc. I suspect that the higher the compression the worse off you will be. Ethanol will have slightly less BTU value per gallon (76K vs. 116 K BTUs), say 35 percent. At ten percent add ratio that should give maybe a 3.5 % decrease in fuel value per gallon. Naturally the water will decrease the fuel value by another 0.5 %
The ethanol adds oxygen content to the fuel which decreases the formation of hydrocarbons in combustion and other pollutants. It also decreases the temperature of combustion decreasing the level of NOX produced. I am not sure if it is the water or the ethanol that provides this function.
Octane value in a gasoline engine is not just the BTU’s but the suppression of the ignition point, there is very little difference in the BTU value of premium and regular gasoline. The addition of ethanol will decrease the octane rating as it will increase the flash point. Pre-ignition on a high compression engine will decrease the power as on a modern engine the spark timing is automatically decreased to accommodate the lower value fuel on older engines we heard the knock. The higher the compression the more the spark must be retarded and the less value you will obtain from the fuel.
Naturally if the engine is designed to burn the alcohol fuel by itself like a GP car, a top fuel dragster or a Brazilian auto the problems are diminished.
Personally I think to get as large of a decrease as he experienced with his motorcycle engine he was ingesting more than 0.5% water. I have done no technical studies to support my hypothesis, but you do.
This is no longer fun and becoming too much like work, but possibly more informative.






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 10-18-2005, 12:14 Post: 118103
Iowafun

TP Contributor

View my Photos

View my Photos  Pics
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Central Iowa
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 955

4
Filter by User
 Alcohol and gas mix

Thanks Peters. I am an engineer, but too lazy to look up numbers and do the math. I was on assignment for my wife and shouldn't have been looking at the internet at the time I posted my response. So had I been looking up info and been caught...






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 10-18-2005, 16:42 Post: 118117
shortmagnum

TP Contributor

View my Photos

View my Photos  Pics
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Wisconsin
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 848

3
Filter by User
 Alcohol and gas mix

"but your math is not correct. You are obtaining about 17% less milage with the 10% alcohol."

Peters, your answers are starting to sound like Murfs. Smile
Thanks for the response though. On my fillup this morning I figured the actual mileage for the two tanks: 41.9 mpg on ethanol blend and 47.4 on 91 octane so about 11% or 13% difference depending on the way you calculate it. My compression ratio is pretty high for a modern engine at 10.8:1 (Honda ST1300). I suspected water in the gas as it wanted to sputter a bit when cold. This engine never runs rough so the missing was obvious.

Iowa, What bike do you own?
I know I've used this blend before and it usually seems to run ok. But I've noticed that certain tanks of gas I've burned just didn't give the same mileage. I'm now assuming that these were the fillups with ethanol blend. I might try one more this fall to see if the fuel mileage is reduced.
Dave






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 10-18-2005, 17:22 Post: 118123
kwschumm



View my Photos

View my Photos  Pics
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NW Oregon
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 5764

2
Filter by User
 Alcohol and gas mix

Maybe that's why our new Highlander is getting much worse mileage than 18/24 that's on the EPA sticker. We're seeing about 15 mpg with 60% highway miles. But our other vehicles haven't changed. Hmmm. Time to take it back to the dealer.






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 10-18-2005, 17:44 Post: 118127
oneace

TP Contributor

View my Photos

View my Photos  Pics
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: south central pa
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1490
 Alcohol and gas mix

sounds like you really love that Highlander.






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 10-18-2005, 17:56 Post: 118128
kwschumm



View my Photos

View my Photos  Pics
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NW Oregon
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 5764

2
Filter by User
 Alcohol and gas mix

At 2000 miles I like it about as much as our 86 Corolla. Which isn't saying much.






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 10-18-2005, 22:26 Post: 118143
DRankin



View my Photos

View my Photos  Pics
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Northern Nevada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 5105
 Alcohol and gas mix

Ken, My 02 Tundra 4x4 gets an honest 17 mpg in mixed driving.

I would think the Highlander would equal or surpass that.

Sometimes it takes 20,000 miles to break in a Toyota engine.






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
Reply | Pop Up Window Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


Page [ 1 ] | 2 | | Next >>

Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > Just For Fun Off Topic Forum

Thread 118052 Filter by Poster:
BrendonN 1 | DRankin 1 | Iowafun 4 | kwschumm 2 | oneace 1 | Peters 3 | shortmagnum 3 |

 (advanced search)

Picture of the Day
videorov

Belarus - Found my one part and looiking for some anothers
Found my one part and looiking for some anothers


Unanswered Questions

Belarus 825 - needs a new clut
Drain Cock
Need more hydraulic flow for s
HINOMOTO HB 501
Belarus 420A - Problems bleed

Active Subjects

460 Long hyd leak
460 axle
Key will not start engine
6x4 engine rebuild vsHarbor Fr
Things we say and what do they
The Plus and Minus of Ignoring
Looking to buy a New Pickup Tr
Need more hydraulic flow for s


Hot Topics

Tractor Category 1 2 3 Hitch s
Duerr hp 678 Chipper replaceme
Gator 620i gas in engine oil
KUBOTA Tractor Trouble Free Qu
Gator 6x4 Overheating problem
Duerr hp 678 Chipper Manual
Adjusting 7308 Pressure Relief
Long 460 hydraulic problem


Featured Suppliers

Mountain Creek Labradoodles
      MountainCreekLabradoodles.com





New Forums on Gun Sport Shooting and Hunting -- BarrelPoint.com  New Forums on Horses ManePoint.com
Talk Horses at ManePoint
Hunting + Gun Sports at BarrelPoint



Most Viewed

+ Need input on building a pneumatic mulch blower
+ Two-Cylinder John Deere Engines
+ one theory on Jobs
+ -17 degrees F
+ Bad River Tractor Tool Rack
+ Vandalism or Civil Matter
+ Joke o the day
+ Merry Christmas
+ OLIVER 1900 FWD
+ Tractor Umbrella Canopy Sunshade Question

Most Discussion

+ -17 degrees F
+ New Implements
+ one theory on Jobs
+ WHAT DID YOU DO TODAY
+ Empire farm days
+ Vandalism or Civil Matter
+ Shooting at Mall in Kingston
+ Joke o the day
+ A thought-provoking eye-opener
+ Hey Randy You are going to

Newest Topics

+ Things we say and what do they mean REALLY
+ Smile for the day Ole and Swen and others
+ Too much Snow Too Soon for me
+ Happy Thanksgiving
+ Commuting 335 miles to work
+ I m back
+ Some weather related news from North Dakota
+ How did you wind up where you are living Survey
+ How Did that happen
+ Super Bowl or Ice Bowl or Who Cares Bowl
















Turbochargers for Tractors and Industrial Machines
Cab Glass for Tractors and Industrial Machines

Alternators for Tractors and Industrial Machines
Radiators for Tractors and Industrial Machines

Driveline Components for Tractors and Industrial Machines
Starter Motors for Tractors and Industrial Machines