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TC25D rear pto shaft broken

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Boomer Bummer
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2004-03-13          79796


I think the rear pto shaft on my TC25D (385 hrs.) is broken. It appears to be off to one side, the seal is broken and fluid is running out. Has this been a problem with Boomers?

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TC25D rear pto shaft broken

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Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2004-03-13          79808


It certainly is not a common problem or at least it has not been posted here before lately. What were you running? Is it under waranty? ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2004-03-14          79826


If it's a warranty issue, I think I'd just show up at the dealer and respond to all questions asked rather than volunteering information here or elsewhere. I haven't heard of the problem on that tractor before. ....

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TC25D rear pto shaft broken

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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2004-03-16          80069


that is not a problem with any tractor of new holland brand as for being a warrinty issue i dought it tc25 went out of production over a year ago if it is not under warrenty i would suggest a tade on a new modle that is a very pricy repair ....

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TC25D rear pto shaft broken

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2004-03-17          80120


If a dealer was talked to whether it's in or out of warranty they'd ask questions to determine if the tractor was abused (oversized implements, wrong shear pins etc.).

If there's been no abuse then it's a low hour tractor with what sounds like a failed output shaft and likely the result of a manufacturing defect. Warranties are supposed to cover manufacturing defects but it's still a story that doesn't do NH any good. I believe I think I've heard of cases where a factory authorized repair of a low hour tractor that was out of warranty, so maybe it's worth a talk with NH CS and the dealer. A dealer couldn't take on the repair under warranty unless authorized to do so by the factory. ....

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TC25D rear pto shaft broken

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Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2004-03-17          80121


I agree with Tom. For a component like this to break, without abuse there must be a flaw in the casting or forging. Most manufactures will extend the waranty to cover such items out of good will. You may have to talk with the area rep. for NH but normally they will replace the item at the least and will cover labour at the best. ....

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TC25D rear pto shaft broken

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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
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2004-03-17          80212


yes that is all true BUT he said that the seal was out of place to me that is abuse and pto shafts in those tractors are not cast they are cnc machined ....

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TC25D rear pto shaft broken

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kubotaguy
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 360 Shepherdstown, WV
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2004-03-17          80227


It depends on how and when it broke as far as damaging the seal. If it had an implement that caused the shaft to keep turning but was broke off inside it could damage the seal. Those shafts are extremely hard so it seems like there could possibly be some abuse involved with it.
We broke a PTO shaft off on a Massey TO20 (old 1 1/8" shaft) when we were bush hogging with it. The top link piece on the bush had broke the weld and was hanging on so we took a 3/8" logging chain and hooked it around the bottom lip of the bushhog and around the area where the top link was. This was a temporary fix until we could weld the piece. It worked fine until he raised the bushhog slightly and the chain caught the grease fitting on the overrun coupler. It tore the seal up and snapped the PTO shaft off clean at the end of the overrun coupler. It also bent and stretched the 3/8" logging chain. It sure made a believer out of me when it comes to PTO power and strength. Since that day we outlawed any type of temporary fixes!!! It only cost about $200 to get it fixed, but that of course was doing the work ourselves and nothing inside was damaged and it was an old tractor and not a nice new CUT. ....

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TC25D rear pto shaft broken

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DK35vince
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 689 Western,Pa.
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2004-03-17          80228


I don't know how the seal being out of place makes it abuse?
If the shaft breaks and gets to flopping around, the first thing it is going to take out will be the seal ! ....

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TC25D rear pto shaft broken

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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2004-03-18          80325


never mind i work on these tractors everyday i know what im talking about and im not going to cyber argue about it plus the guy him self has not even responded so it is all speculaton any way ....

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TC25D rear pto shaft broken

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roadrunner19
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 8 South Cental PA
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2004-03-23          80867


Check your driveline on your implement it may be to long and is bottoming out on turns ....

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TC25D rear pto shaft broken

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Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2004-03-23          80878


I guess I am not sure how the oneace knows that the shaft is CNC machined and that it is definately abuse. Many of these type of propellar shafts are cast or forged to reduce the cutting required and allow surface hardening of the bearing surfaces. Many of the splines I have seen were ground not machine cut, it is difficult to cut harden material. They were producing these shafts long before the advent of CNC, I would not guarantee that the shafts are not cut on regular mechanically controlled lathe and grinders. Routine cuts are easy to set up for repedative motions. ....

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TC25D rear pto shaft broken

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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2004-03-24          81006


how i know is that i work on nh every day i see there guts and gears and pumps and every thing else and out of the HUNDREDS of compacts we sell none have ever broken the pto shaft!!! ....

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TC25D rear pto shaft broken

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Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2004-03-24          81010


All the more reason to suspect that it is a defect that has slipped through. I am sure that the drive lines get abused by people in your area. I believe I wrote that this is very rare from the TP prospective in my first post. ....

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TC25D rear pto shaft broken

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2004-03-25          81061


I'd try to keep in mind that nobody has seen or heard a description of the broken shaft nor a description of operations before the failure. Bummer seems to have gone on to something else maybe under a different registered name here or maybe simply disappeared. We aren't going to help him no matter what the problem was.

So lets help ourselves by trying to learn from all the expertise here--and I know that there's plenty all around. Everybody agrees that this would be an extremely rare event in absence of abuse. Got to stop talking about this particular thing though because there's no info to support any view of what happened. Both manufacturing defects as well as abuse happen.

I've seen pics of failures due to inadequately worked forgings--if that's how the shafts are made. I don't think it's too difficult to distinguish fault from abuse if the broken part is available but it's not. Could be an interesting subject though even if a bit esoteric for here. I have plenty of room to learn myself. ....

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TC25D rear pto shaft broken

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ALDALE
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 18 CINCINNATI, OHIO
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2004-03-25          81086


oneace
Here's a slightly different problem, but it sounds like you would know about it.
I have a nh TC30 hydro that will mot stop (or may be slow to stop) when the hydro pedal is released when the tractor is pulling hard or going up a hill. Both forward and reverse do this in all ranges (worse in higher ranges). The linkage is free and the cruise control is ok. This started at about 8 months (about 30 hrs) after I bought it new). Now,at about 15 months (45 hrs) it has gotten worse. I can stop one of several ways, (1. push the cluth in, (2. reduce the engine rpm, (3. press the hydro pedal slightly in the opposite direction, (4. turn the key off, or (5. keep going until the load is reduced (stops ok with light load or going down hill).

It is still in warranty, however I have called four nh dealers to find one experienced with this problem and the shop managers have never heard of this happening on any hydro. One shop manager did find a troubleshooting guide for this type problem, but had never done it. An e-mail to the factory resulted in nothing--they gave me the address of the dealer where I bought the tractor (I think I could find it).

Do you think this can be fixed and be expected to last longer than a few months?? I have seen the same complaint from others on this forum. I have not seen a comment where one had been fixed except where the external linkage was binding.

Thanks. ....

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TC25D rear pto shaft broken

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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2004-03-25          81115


aldale
this is a common proplem with most of the lver asction hydros we sell. fist question would be did you try geassing the pivot on the underside of the tractor. second dose it creep ....

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TC25D rear pto shaft broken

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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2004-03-25          81116


tom g.
i said the same thing a few posts back ....

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ALDALE
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 18 CINCINNATI, OHIO
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2004-03-25          81120


oneace
Yes, the linkage is well greased and works just fine when under light or noload. No, it does not creep.
The hydro pedal always returns to neutral except when the tractor is pulling a load. Under load the pedal appears to stick. The forward spring produces about 20 pounds resistance when pushed (with the range in neutral). The reverse is about the same. ....

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TC25D rear pto shaft broken

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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2004-03-25          81127


have you ever heard of static resistance? with these tractors when they are under a load the static resistance on the hydostat it higher than the spring rate. NH will probly deni it through ....

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TC25D rear pto shaft broken

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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2004-03-25          81128


i have to look at a few things at work to give the fix for that i cant remember the exact procedure ....

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TC25D rear pto shaft broken

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ALDALE
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 18 CINCINNATI, OHIO
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2004-03-25          81146


oneace
No, I have not heard of static resistance in hydros.

I hope that there is a fix for this problem as it makes it difficult to drive in close quarters.

Thanks in advance for any information that you can provide. ....

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TC25D rear pto shaft broken

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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2004-03-25          81155


basicly static resistance is the force generated under load on the swath plat in side the hydo with is what makes the tractor move front and back by changing the angle of the rotating piston group. ....

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TC25D rear pto shaft broken

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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2004-03-25          81157


it is almost like a sifon the more load the greater the effect you probly noticed it dose not take that much pressure from your foot to bring it back to neutral the engienires just missed it by a littel bit i know my spelling smells like a rotten fish lol ....

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ALDALE
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2004-03-25          81166


oneace
Yes, it takes very little pressure on the oposing pedal to stop. Just a little tap and the pedal returns to center very quickly by it'self which stops the tractor quickly. ....

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TC25D rear pto shaft broken

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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2004-03-26          81253


what rpm are you running at when this happens ....

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ALDALE
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2004-03-26          81270


oneace
It happens at all engine speeds from idle to pto ratiog of 2600 rpm. However it is worse at lower rpm. ....

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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2004-03-26          81274


try replacing the return to neutral "shock" under the step that is the only direct replacement part if that dose not work you would have to use two springs one for forward and one for reverse hooking where the "shock" is located some mods are re quiered because you do not want to remove the "shock" completely ....

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billy r
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 18 NC
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2004-04-21          83863


If it is out of warranty you can forget about help from New Holland.
....

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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
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2004-04-21          83874


yeah that is what coverage is try getting a car manufacture to fuix something out of warrenty. you are one person yo most likelty abused your tractor and are nopw cring cause now you have two pay a couple thousand dollars to get it fixed if you even have a tractor and not just on here to stir up trouble. ....

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oneace
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2004-04-21          83877


and billy r you said your tractor is a 99 they only come with a 2 year warrenty so its been out for 3 years what do you expect ....

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TC25D rear pto shaft broken

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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2004-04-22          84015


Many of our 4wd shafts are cast, green turned in a cnc lathe, hardened and quenched right on the spot (same cell) then moved over the the next machine and HARD TURNED in the lathe. Some times its hard to tell from the untrained eye if it was turned or ground. When you turn hard material it comes out (usually) as smoothe as a gring job.
We HOB many gears in the same general way along with splines on the shafts. Anyone have a question on the exact part and I can find out for you. Our foundry gets shut down this week, what a shame. Since we have been getting outside castings we have had quality problems but they ussually get weeded out before they go in a machine.
Many if not all the big three and others have outside comp. making their castings (it is not in our CORE buisness plan anymore) AS for ISO ??? At the last 3 places I have worked at we all have been ISO compliant. What a joke!!!!! Dont count on it saving the world, after
the inspectors leave most places bend the rules when production is in jeperdy. Management wont admit it and production complains about it and the cycle goes on and on. If your in UPPER management you will call me a liar, if your on the bottom you will say ISO does and means next to nothing (sometimes) and if your where I am, in skilled trades and have to rework parts back to spec and see what actually happens after ward you will believe me. Our ISO quality guy knows me VERY well! I am in there most every month complaining and taking care of engineers and buyers that are covering their butt by having us keep GOOD parts supplied to the lines. On a side note, every part we machine (repaire) will be to exactly what the prints call for or I tag it and turn it in to ISO. What happenes after that to it??? ask upper management? This is not localized to NH, trust me!!!!!! Its at DEERE, Cat. and one of the major dairy pump and valve makers here in the states. Whether or not it was abuse??? Who are we to say unless we had first hand knowlege. I just had a rest button SNAP! after just touching it with a drift, that never happened to me in over 20 years in the trade so crap does get thru to customers in ALL phases of production in every company in every buisness. What a company does with it when the facts are revieled is anouther story. ""And thats all I have to say on that matter!!!""
(Forrest Gump) qoute! ....

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rs1rs1
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 7 West Tennessee
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2004-04-23          84028


brokenarrow
Very, very interesting. Thanks ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
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2004-04-23          84055


I think ISO is a joke as well. Mostly it means documenting and creating "repeatable processes". It does little or nothing to improve the quality of processes or products. In fact, it's often an impediment to improving quality. When you want to improve a system or process the paper trail and inspections and expense required are a disincentive to doing so. Once bad systems or processes are documented they tend to stay that way. ....

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hockeyhead
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 21 monroe,michigan
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2004-04-29          84748


I know ISO is a joke,The persons who sold this to American industry did nothing but make themselves rich, and increase the burdon rates of American manufacturers. ....

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kwschumm
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2004-04-29          84749


You're not a kiddin. I'm working on a product now that uses some boards from a Swiss manufacturer. We need some very minor modifications to the boards for this product. In addition to the customization fee we are getting dinged another $2.5k for an ISO Compliance fee to cover the cost of ISO mandated paperwork. What a scam. ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2004-04-29          84758


After reading this thread, I disagree with the sucks to be you, its out of warranty, and suspect abuse approach here as well. It could be a case of trolling as Boomer Bummer has yet to give much of any detailed info. just the initial post. I for one would be VERY interested in what was being done with the tractor when it broke? Could very well be a case of abuse but I have not heard the owner's side of it.

Yeah Ken, I think the ISO stuff is a lot of eye wash. Sounds good and looks good of performance reviews ehh???;o) ....

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