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Premium Fuel for Generator Avoid Ethanol Myth

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chuckles
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 77 Eastern PA
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2014-02-06          188851


When I bought my generator the Mower Shop told me to be sure to only buy 1 gallon of Premium fuel at a time and run the Generator for 15 minutes a month to keep the battery charged.

He said Premium fuel would have less ethanol in it and would stay stable longer. Regardless I add Stabile fuel conditioner anyway.

So I was so comically dedicated to the idea that Premium had less ethanol in it that for fear of getting anything but premium into my can I ran a couple of gallons of premium into my car before before putting the one premium gallon into my can for the generator just to purge the pump hose of the dreaded ethanol laced regular gas :--)

Now from what I have researched it seems there may be an even higher percentage of ethanol in premium fuel than regular as ethanol can be used to get an octane boost.

So anyone got any ideas about Premium fuel for small engines? Fact or Myth ?


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Premium Fuel for Generator Avoid Ethanol Myth

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2014-02-06          188854


I think it's a myth but the easy way to tell is to look at the sticker on the pump. There are stations here that still sell real gas but the closest is still inconvenient. Have you checked out Pure-gas.org? Maybe you have a station near you that sells the real stuff. ....


Link:   Pure gas

 
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Premium Fuel for Generator Avoid Ethanol Myth

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5219 South Carolina
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2014-02-07          188860


We have two stations near here that sell 100% gas, both in high octane rating. I am sort of torn as manual on engine (one any way) says to use low octane fuel but to me the issues with ethanol create a lot of problems so have ignored that to use the 100% gas.

That being said, station I was buying that fuel from sold and the new owners left pumps labeled as they were but the "pure" gas was not and caused me issues. Can you pump gas into a clear container and let it set and tell if it has ethanol in it?

Have found many of the small engine dealers know who sells 100% gas. ....

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Premium Fuel for Generator Avoid Ethanol Myth

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2646 NorthWest NJ
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2014-02-07          188863


I have been researching this quite a bit, and the more I do the more I think getting anything that you could rely on is not possible.

Some sources say that ALL Premium fuel has been blended with ethanol since the 1980's just to meet the higher octane ratings.

And even if you find a one off station that purports to have the ethanol free gas, since the EPA states that 77% of all US gasoline has ethanol, I do not think they would be above putting E10 in their storage tanks if needed.

I think I am going to skip bothering about this and just add Stabile for ethanol to my generator fuel.

PS NJ is not listed on that site on pure gas locations as well. in PA there are so few stations listed that it is a hopeless pursuit :-(

....

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Premium Fuel for Generator Avoid Ethanol Myth

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5219 South Carolina
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2014-02-07          188866


I understand the aggravation but do think some stations that show they have pure gas do. ....

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Premium Fuel for Generator Avoid Ethanol Myth

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2014-02-07          188868


I don't know about other states, but in Iowa the gas coming out of the nozzle must be as the label on the pump states. Regular pump is 100% gas and the premium pump is 10% Ethanol, there are some stations that now sell E 85, meaning 85% Ethanol if your engine is labeled to use it.
Some newer pumps use one hose for all grades which with the amount of fuel in the hose that would alter the purity if you choose a different grade than the customer just ahead of you. I have no idea how much the hose and plumbing inside the pump would hold, probably no more than a quart until your chosen grade pushed it out. Likely it is not enough to be of any consequence, but still it is altered from the intended grade just a bit.
A few years ago a station owner here in Iowa was caught spiking his tanks with a bit of Ethanol by the Iowa Dept. of Agriculture who has the responsibility of checking pumps for measurement and purity of the product at least once per year. As I remember the station owner paid a substantial fine.
Did I worry about using pure gas in my small engines? It depended on how far I would have to drive to get pure gas. The only difference I noticed was in my lawn mowers which were old enough to be carbureted was vapor lock with the Ethanol if I shut them off hot then wanted top restart soon after. I never did replace any gaskets, seals etc., that some blamed on Ethanol.

Frank

Frank. ....

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Premium Fuel for Generator Avoid Ethanol Myth

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2014-02-07          188869


Unwarranted subsidies notwithstanding, my two concerns about ethanol in gasoline concern water and rubber. Ethanol is hygroscopic, meaning it attracts moisture. Stabil or some other dehydrating agent in something like a standby generator is a must. Ethanol also eats rubber. Older gasoline engines should have the rubber hoses and seals retrofited with Viton equivalents, it's ethanol-resistant. New purchases should be closely researched to determine if the manufacturer used Viton.

Diesel engines are not immune either. Bio-diesel attacks rubber just like ethanol.

//greg// ....

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Premium Fuel for Generator Avoid Ethanol Myth

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taogden
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 81 United States
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2014-02-07          188871


All Colorado gasoline is blended, there are no places left selling pure gas.
Nearly of my equipment is older and has whatever came on it as of the date of manufacture which in some cases is the later 60's. On both small and large engines I leave the fuel in it it had at last use. I do use additives, both Stabil since it has been available as well as Seafoam. Before these products became something more than a novelty I would turn off the fuel and let the motor run dry at storage. Leaving the old fuel in was cause for pulling carbs apart at the beginning of the season to clean them out, and this was when straight gas was still available.
The only thing I have noticed since having the blended is and increase in tank rust before I started using the storage additives. I did notice a difference in power, and economy when we changed mixtures in the spring and fall, but, as the state has decreed that all fuel will be mixed, it is a mute point anymore.
They also used to use propane and butane in the past to improve the octane rating.
Colorado only sells 85, 87 and 93, mostly I run the 85 it is not worth the time effort and worry to do the search for other fuels. I have noticed no issues with small or large engines leaving the gas in or running a specific octane rating, what I have noticed is that I do have to use the additives to keep my tanks from rusting as to where I did not notice the problem in the past. Treating the gas is nearly mandatory anymore due to the alcohol.
I have not noticed any issues with the rubber hoses, but most of my diesel stuff is from the late 80's or newer so it could already have the newer rubber. ....

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Premium Fuel for Generator Avoid Ethanol Myth

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2014-02-07          188875


No, they won't have Viton. You're preserving them by "letting the motor run dry at storage". That way, there's no ethanol left to eat away at the natural rubber over winter. With Viton seals and hoses, there's no longer a need to run engines dry at the end of the season. All that stuff that used to clog the jets went by the wayside after ethanol blended fuel was introduced. Don't like ethanol, but at least that's one GOOD thing it contributes.

Personally, I feel LNG/LPG is a far better solution than is ethanol and bio-diesel. The USA and China are the two biggest counties in the world that BURN food on purpose.

//greg// ....

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Premium Fuel for Generator Avoid Ethanol Myth

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2014-02-08          188881


Gregg

Regardless of our personal opinions on "Using food for fuel". Remember back when the cost of gas shot up and shortage stories, (true or fabricated) were rampant the public was shouting about we needed to find alternate fuels before we exhausted the oil supply, and yes the government volunteered to wave some of the fuel tax on Ethanol in order to promote production. Yes in the beginning it took more energy to produce Ethanol than you could gain from it, but that has changed with newer methods plus more uses for the by products.

How much the use of Ethanol has affected our price at the pump, I have no idea but I'm sure with an alternate source it took some of the oil company strangle hold from around the neck of the public.

I am very aware that we have hunger in the land of plenty but if using a bit less corn for fuel would solve the hunger problem I too would be all for it, but that never seemed to be the answer. We simply have too many politicians who can't agree on anything let alone how to feed the hungry.

I would love to read a copy of the new farm bill, the old one was some eleven hundred pages long, so I'm sure the new one is longer. The highlights that I've heard take away one percent of food and nutrition dollars. end direct payments to farmers in exchange for a beefed up crop insurance program. Remember even when the direct payments were I effect less than ten percent of the farm bill dollars ever ended up in a farmer's pocket, so now with an end to direct payments the ten percent will shrink too.

Frank. ....

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Premium Fuel for Generator Avoid Ethanol Myth

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5219 South Carolina
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2014-02-08          188888


The more I know the more I realize more is lost when money goes through D.C. than in many times reaches those it is suppose to help. I would be glad to see our Fed Government get back to the real responsibilities it is suppose to and let the market handle the rest. ....

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2014-02-09          188891


Don't get me started on the Farm Bill, and I'm a retired farmer. About 15 percent of the money in the legislation signed into law Friday will go to farmers to help them grow the food we eat. Most of the other 85% in the almost $100 billion-a-year law will go to food stamps. And of the meager 15% that goes to actual farmers in the form of direct payments, a portion again goes to people who don't even farm anymore.

Of all the subsidies in the bill, it's the ethanol subsidy that galls me most. Given the success other countries have had refining ethanol from switchgrass and sugar cane/beet residuals, there's no excuse for us to still be making it from corn. There's a massive world market for our corn, so ethanol from other vegetation shouldn't lower corn production figures at all. Instead of burning it - export it. Acreage that the Feds are now paying farmers NOT to grow stuff, could be used for switchgrass and sugar cane/beets. Yet this bunch in Washington still wants to burn what could be somebody else's food.

//greg//

....

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