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MF-471 Split in Half

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mftractor10
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 7 United States
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2011-06-28          179208


I have a client who's MF-471 split in half at the bell housing of the tractor. I would really like to speak with other people who have had this happen. Please contact me via email. We can then talk through email or on the phone. Thanks to everyone and any help would be appreciated!

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MF-471 Split in Half

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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2168 West of Toronto
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2011-06-28          179209


Your client (you're a lawyer?) was at the time lifting something with his tractor's front loader, right?

It's a little hard to communicate by email in the absence of an email address, but yes, it has happened, including to me. ....

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MF-471 Split in Half

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mftractor10
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 7 United States
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2011-06-28          179210


Thank you for your response. I guess I left out my email but its mftractor1017@gmail.com. And yes I work for a law firm (though I'm just a law student right now) and my boss and I would greatly appreciate talking to you. Once you email me I can give you details and supply you with a phone number. Thanks again! ....

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MF-471 Split in Half

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7140 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2011-06-30          179221


I have lot's of experience at this subject, and may be able to save you a bunch of time and money.

Feel free to get in touch if you like.

If you're thinking this is a product liability case, you might be in for a very rude awakening.



Best of luck. ....

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MF-471 Split in Half

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mftractor10
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 7 United States
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2011-06-30          179223


Quote:
Originally Posted by Murf | view 179221
I have lot's of experience at this subject, and may be able to save you a bunch of time and money.Feel free to get in touch if you like.If you're thinking this is a product liability case, you might be in for a very rude awakening.Best of luck.


Murf, I am very interested in talking with you. Please email me directly at mftractor1017 at gmail dot com. Thanks for your reply and I look forward to speaking with you. ....

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MF-471 Split in Half

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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2168 West of Toronto
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2011-06-30          179225


Murf, why do you say that?

Josh, Murf is probably your best source on this site for answers. ....

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MF-471 Split in Half

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mftractor10
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 7 United States
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2011-06-30          179226


Quote:
Originally Posted by auerbach | view 179225
Murf, why do you say that?Josh, Murf is probably your best source on this site for answers.


Thanks Alan! I sent Murf a PM earlier and I'm looking forward to hearing what he has to say. ....

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MF-471 Split in Half

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7140 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2011-06-30          179228


Quote:
Originally Posted by auerbach | view 179225
Murf, why do you say that?Josh, Murf is probably your best source on this site for answers.


Thanks for the kind words.

A MF 471 is a big boy, not exactly the typical CUT, depending on the exact setup (2WD or 4WD, I'm guessing it was 4WD) the basic tractor weighs ~6,000 pounds. Add to that a FEL, another 1,500 pounds. A tractor & FEL that size would need ~1,500 pounds of counter-balance then add operator, fuel, etc., etc.

Were now talking about nearly 10,000 pounds pushed around by a 70hp diesel.

Add to that the mechanical stresses of a FEL itself, and as soon as I hear of the word "snow" in there, my mind goes "Oh-oh, I know what's coming next.".

According to published stats, the tractor was produced between 2002 - 2006.

That's a 4 to 8 year old machine with lots of opportunity for abuse during that time.

This machine is not new, and is in use all over the world, if they were defective, we would have heard about it by now.

IMHO.


Best of luck. ....

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MF-471 Split in Half

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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2168 West of Toronto
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2011-06-30          179229


... my mind goes "Oh-oh, I know what's coming next.".

... if they were defective, we would have heard about it by now.

Aren't those two statements somewhat contradictory? And you really consider a commercial-grade tractor made in the 2000s to be old?

As I understand it, an action has been filed on behalf of a farmer who bought it with a dealer-recommended-and-installed FEL. The tractor folded, crushing his legs beyond healing.

....

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MF-471 Split in Half

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7140 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2011-06-30          179231


Not trying to say it's old at all, but was only trying to say, like the old adage goes, if it didn't break when it was shiny & new, it isn't going to.

There's a reason the law says any new product has to have a warranty of 30+ days after all.

Warranties only cover "defects in material and workmanship" for a reason. That reason is abuse, intentional or otherwise.

Best of luck. ....

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MF-471 Split in Half

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5219 South Carolina
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2011-06-30          179234


Don't pretend to be knowledgeable on this and don't think I know anyone with this tractor. My guess is part of what Murf is saying as long as they have been out there if there is a major design issue it would be known very well by now. At same time what brand of loader and model was used? Could there be an issue with over size loader or improper installation and thus this being the only one set up this way?

As to person being hurt, regardless the reason that is sad. ....

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MF-471 Split in Half

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mftractor10
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 7 United States
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2011-07-05          179280


Thanks to everyone for your input. The loader was a Quicke loader and Auerbach is correct that it was a dealer recommended loader that was installed by the dealer itself. The loader was empty and only 2 inches off the ground when the bellhousing snapped.
I guess my followup questions would be regarding the types of frames/subframes used in modern day tractors. After talking to Auerbach, we learned that these frames used to be somewhat standard on older tractors but nowadays are being used less and less. Does anyone know whether there are present day tractors that come installed with these frames/subframes instead of just relying on the bellhousing for all the support?

Thanks again to everyone for your input! ....

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MF-471 Split in Half

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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2168 West of Toronto
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2011-07-06          179289


I think Kioti has a subframe on every tractor model.

For your research you could visit all the tractor-user sites and enter "subframe" in the Search box (including this site). I predict you'll find it's no secret that the strain of a loader calls for a reinforcing subframe.* You could also Google "tractor + loader" to get the names of makers, then Google each as "Woods + subframe," "Koyker + subframe," etc. to compile their recommendations.

Yanmar offered an add-on subframe kit, which I learned after my bellhousing fractured. (It's named from its shape, also termed clutch housing from its function.) You could also engage a forensic metallurgist to examine the broken housing. **

Keep us posted. My prediction: the maker of your client's tractor will offer a no-disclosure settlement for dropping the claim against it and the dealer.


* PS
I've seen smaller tractors than your client's or mine with not only a loader but a daily-working backhoe mounted to the 3-point hitch. (However, this is admittedly rare.) I mention this because a hoe is heavier than a loader and in use it can strain the central structure more than a loader can (but if the hoe breaks something it's more likely to be only the hitch). So that suggests a properly designed and manufactured center CAN take the strain.

** You might have the fractured housing examined by a professional to rule out the possibility that the operator hung it on a rock or otherwise damaged it beforehand. ....

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MF-471 Split in Half

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mftractor10
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 7 United States
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2011-07-07          179302


Alan, once again thank you very much! Hopefully I can come up with some good research here in the next few weeks. I'll keep you posted on any developments. Thanks again and thanks to all for your replies. ....

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MF-471 Split in Half

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12hand
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 2 United States
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2015-10-19          193900


I saw your correspondence on this issue and wanted to reach out.
We had out Tractor split in half, on flat ground about a month ago.
Thank goodness no one was hurt but we are out quite a bit of money and it is apparently not covered.
Is there any information you can share?

....

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MF-471 Split in Half

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bugs46
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 36 Tennessee
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2015-10-19          193902


a MF 471 is a 70 H.P Tractor and all can be overloaded. Massey-Ferguson makes a Great Tractor and not many people have a problems with them,unless they have been abuse. And i would say this tractor has been overloaded and abuse.
I would suggest to get a bigger Tractor with more Horse power.And a Massey-Ferguson,I love Red Massey-Ferguson Tractors,been using them since 1957. and still have a 1959 -65 Massey that runs as a dream but it has been taken care of and well service.And never abuse. ....

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arcwelder
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 106 Florida
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2015-10-19          193904


I looked at the quickie loader page.
Just guessing, this loader was the lightest loader that could be put on the tractor. No sub-frame was on it.
you are going to need specifics.
Like what is the model number of the loader.
what are the specifications.
when was it made. Was it a used loader.
when was it put on the tractor.
was the Manufacturer's instructions followed.
was it modified.
Was the tractor/loader ever used to ram down a tree.
was the tractor/loader ever used as a bulldozer.
was the tractor/loader ever overloaded, then partially dropped the bucket then stopped.
Because of the physics of having a bucket full of dirt or snow, Allowing it to fall 4 feet then release the control to stop, Force = Weight x (Free Fall Distance/Stopping Distance +1), that can be for a 72 inch bucketm 16 cubic feet of wet sand (120 lbs per cubic ft)leads 2400 lbs dropping 4 ft. yields (2400 x ((4/.25)+1)) or 40,800 pounds of impact (actually more because stopping distance will be less than an inch). Add in the fact that the fulcrum is the front wheels and the impact will be focused on the bell housing, it is the point where the tractor will be bent.
Ramming a tractor into a tree or snow bank to knock it over is much worse.
So if your client was the type to bump and release a full bucket to lower it instead of easing it down, or ramming into things to knock them down, if it was a new tractor, he or she may have done this on his own.
That is why when you over move a stick to lower, if it is a free fall on a full bucket with no danger, you go to the ground with it, then pick it back up.
Any impact that will lift the rear tires is enough to break most tractors eventually.

So what was your 'Client' doing with the tractor when it split.




....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5219 South Carolina
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2015-10-20          193905


Some good thoughts here but this thread is from 2011. I really think a discussion on proper installation of fel and use of it would be great. I would like that and benefit from it. kt ....

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