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Forums > Active Threads > Other Tractor Brands > Jinma Farmpro Agracat Nortrac

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Jinma 200 LE tractor dies will not start

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bogman
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 99 Bogalusa, La.
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2010-08-26          173460


While mowing yesterday my JM200 LE lost power so I pressed down the clutch and a few seconds later it died. I tried to restart and no go. I unscrewed the primer pump and pumped it a few times and it cranked long enough to make it to the shed where it died again. There's plenty of fuel and the sediment bowl is full. Took the bowl off and checked the screen. It was clean. Put a new fuel filter on. Pumped it up and it cranked. Ran about 5 minutes and died again.

What's going on?


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richwaugh
Join Date: Mar 2010
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2010-08-26          173467


There is probably another filter screen inside the tank itself. Pain to get to, but necessary to clean it. Also, you could have a fuel hose collapsing and hampering flow. Worst case, your lift pump may be shot. Do you regularly check/change the oil in your injector pump?

All things to check. ....

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
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2010-08-26          173468


If the in-tank screen was blocked, the sediment bowl wouldn't fill. Primer pump probably wouldn't work either.
1. check oil level in the injection pump
2. remove and visually inspect all flexible fuel lines;(a) replace any that show signs of internal collapse, and (b) inspect (and clean if necessary) the banjo fitting screen(s).
3. fuel filter could have collapsed internally due to water in the fuel, to rubber debris from degrading hoses, from age, or malfunctioning bypass. No way to inspect spin-on filters, all you can do is replace them - just in case.

//greg// ....

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bogman
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2010-08-26          173470


Thanks guys for the suggestions. It's to late to check the hoses and the oil in the pump tonight, but I'll do it tommorrow and let you know what I find. Thanks again. ....

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bogman
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2010-08-28          173497


I don't know guys, this parts list is starting to really add up! And I don't have a possible new fuel tank on it yet.

This is a 2002 model with almost 187 hours on it. I've gotten almost 8 years of trouble free service out of this tractor. Is it worth spending this much on it or should I retire the beast?

Fuel Line Y385T-1-10700
Your Price: $24.83
Fuel Line Y385T-1-10400
Your Price: $26.80
Fuel Line Y385T-1-10600
Your Price: $25.13
Fuel Line 180.50.020
Your Price: $33.26
Fuel Bowl Assembly 250.50.020
Your Price: $32.92
Pump 31329
Your Price: $595.98
....

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bogman
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2010-08-28          173498


Whoops, forgot to add what I did yesterday.

I went straight for the pump, because before I found this forum and read up on it, I had no clue you had to check/change the oil in it. I found the plug on the bottom and took it out. 2 or 3 drops of diesel smelling oil slowly dripped out. I flushed and filled with oil till it ran out the overflow pipe that had the rubber cap on it. I figure this pump is history.

Anyway I went ahead and checked the screen in the banjo fitting coming from the tank. Clean as a whistle, with diesel pouring out the whole time. I had tried to shut the valve off on the sediment bowl, but the handle broke off.

Reassembled and bled the system and she cranked and ran like a brand new one. Backed out of the shed and went to go mow and she lost power and died just like before.

....

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2010-08-28          173502


I change my pump oil twice a year, you haven't done yours in eight. So odds are you burned up the pump. Surprising it lasted this long actually. So when you consider that a new pump is almost certainly in the cards, the costs for those incidentals seem almost trivial. If you're gonna update the fuel system, consider those smaller pieces as just part of the job.

//greg// ....

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Jinma 200 LE tractor dies will not start

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bogman
Join Date: Aug 2010
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2010-08-28          173510


Hi Greg, I'm with you about the extras being insignificant, it's just that a couple of guys at work have bought zero-turns and swear that they cut your mowing time in half. And since 90% of the time that's what I'm doing with this tractor, I'm thinking of putting the repair cost toward a zero-turn.

It's that other 10% of the time when I need to haul dirt or use the grader blade or bushhog that makes it a tough decision.

Is there a source for these parts that might be cheaper?

Thanks again for your help. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2010-08-28          173513


Your buddies are right. I cut 4 acres in 3 hours. I have berms with pine trees on them ditches and pond embankments. A ZT would cut it in half, pun intended LOL ....

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bogman
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2010-08-28          173514


You see, that's what I keep hearing. One of the guys bought a Kubota diesel ZT and loves it. Says it's very economical to operate too.

What brand did you get Earth? ....

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bogman
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2010-08-28          173515


Anybody ever deal with this site?

ttp://www.china-tractors-generators-parts.com/

They have the pump I need listed for $218.99

1 F10S1 Y380-10100 Fuel injection pump assy. 1 218.99 ....

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greg_g
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2010-08-28          173516


I strongly suspect that price is FOB China. Try to get a firm delivered price from them before you commit

//greg// ....

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bogman
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2010-08-29          173528


Good advice Greg, I'll ask about C.O.D.. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2010-08-29          173531


Less than $300 for an injection pump? Me thinks they mean lift or transfer pump. If that's the case wouldn't an electric pump work for $50 - $60?

Also, if it is state-side but not in stock (likely), unless you pay several hundred or more in airship fees (which could be at least a week or two clearing Customs) it could take a month or two or three to have it in an ocean shipping container with a thousand other items.

The same scenario could happen even if their office is in Asia---but add to that getting your payment to them and having it clear (check, MO, etc).

If using a credit card call your issuer and ask them if you are protected if the deal goes bad. Or never happens.

And what happens if they send the wrong part? ....

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bogman
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2010-08-29          173536


All good questions Earth. I'll find out and let you know. ....

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bogman
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2010-08-29          173546


Okay, I sent an e-mail to John Yang at the site listed below asking about delivery charges.

http://www.china-tractors-generators-parts.com

Meanwhile someone mentioned that the price quoted might be for the "Lift" pump. Can somebody tell me what a lift pump is? Is that the name of the pump that raises the arms for the three point hitch? ....

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earthwrks
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2010-08-29          173547


The lift or transfer pump sucks fuel from the tank at relatively low pressure and supplies the injection or injector pump which boosts it much, much higher (3,000 psi??--not sure).

Injection pumps can be a grand or more---rebuilt. That's why I questioned the low injector pump price.

Lift pumps are crucial if the machine has one. It's basically like having a fuel pump on a gas engine.

If your tank is higher than the injection pump it may not have a transfer pump because it relies on gravity-feed. ....

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bogman
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2010-08-29          173548


Man that was quick. John just e-mailed me back. Didn't answer my question though.
"
I will check the inventory with our warehouse,because a lot of inventory are put of stock now,and it is hard to get them from China now because price
increased to much and higher transportation cost.

Thanks and best regards,

John "

Sounds like his operation is stateside from that. ....

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bogman
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2010-08-29          173549


Okay Earth, that makes sense. The fuel tank on my tractor is higher than the injector pump, so I guess you would call it gravity feed. ....

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earthwrks
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2010-08-29          173550


If they reply to the email and give what seems an acceptable turn-around time, ask if there is guaranteed delivery date. If they give you one be wary. No one can tell you that, even he is the ship's captian. Lol

I ordered some XRF brand suspension parts for my Ram that were supposedly made 90 miles from me here in Michigan. I thought, "Cool, keep it local". They have a million-mile warranty. And the price was less than MOOG parts. So I ordered most the parts I needed to get me started (everything was being replaced). Then I called the place again only to find out they were not made here but in Tiawan--Michigan was their engineering office. How nice. I needed one final part and it was on back order for months. They kept telling me they are the next ocean container, and the next, and the next. Each container took over a month to come here. I got fed up and ended up buying the final part I needed from Advance Auto. ....

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bogman
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2010-08-29          173551


That's the kind of horror story I hope to avoid. Thanks for the tip. ....

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bogman
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2010-08-29          173552


Earth, this is the source of the malfuntion. It is listed at FarmPro.com at 395.00 ....


Link:   

Click Here


 
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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
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2010-08-29          173553


Quote:
Originally Posted by bogman | view 173549
The fuel tank on my tractor is higher than the injector pump, so I guess you would call it gravity feed.
Not entirely. Gravity plays a roll, but not in the cases where the fuel filter is higher than the pump assembly. Gravity feeds the sediment bowl and gets fuel as far as the pump assembly, but on some tractors the fuel then has to be "pushed" up to the filter.

They call what you'll be buying an injection pump, but it's actually a fuel delivery assembly consisting of lift pump, hand primer, injection pump, and governor. It's an all or nothing purchase. Except for the hand primer, none of the parts are individually replaceable.

//greg// ....

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bogman
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2010-08-31          173587


I've seen people on this forum write about how crude these chinese tractors are. Well let me tell you, with my Jinma on the fritz, I had to go get the old mans TO-35 Ferguson to mow my yard. Now that baby is what I would call crude.

No more turf tires, those ag tires will really cut up your yard. No more power steering. No more spring seat. No headlights w/Hi-Lo beams. No rear work light. No lighted instrument panel. No fuel gauge.

After a few minutes on that beast, I was looking around for Fred and Barney. Made me really appreciate the JM-200 LE.

Alas no luck with John Yang, a really nice fellow but doesn't have much in stock. So I'm going to wind up ordering my injector pump from FarmProTractors. I wanted to deal with Affordable Tractor Sales since they are so close by, but their salesman said he wasn't authorized to match Farm Pros prices.

I haven't ordered yet because I still don't know if I'm going to need a new fuel tank or not. You know I broke the handle on the fuel shut off valve. So wanting to change the sediment bowl out to fix that, the whole sediment bowl assembly snapped off like a dry twig. I mean I just barely put any pressure on it when I went to unscrew it and snap.

Anyway I still haven't gotten the threaded part out of the tank. I've tried two different types of ez-outs. The tapered square snap-on just shaves more and more of the pot metal out and the tapered twist type goes in so tight I think it's swelling the pipe against the threads. I mean I'm sraining my goobers off trying to break it loose and I'm a pretty stout fellow.

So, bad as I hate to, it looks like I've gotta pull the fuel tank.

Greg that was a good description of the "fuel delivery system" and I found the following link you directed someone to, in some old threads I was reading on how to change the injector pump.

http://johnstractor.homestead.com/InjPumpInstall.html

The lever on top that you pull to kill it, does that advance or retard the timing so much that it dies?
....

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greg_g
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2010-08-31          173589


Nope, it simply cuts off the fuel

//greg// ....

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earthwrks
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2010-08-31          173590


Bogman, me thinks you're referring to me about them being crude. Yup that was me---GUILTY!

But compared to today's machine, 60-70 years ago THOSE were state-of-the-art. In fact you were somebody if you owned one. Your envious neighbor back then was still using a horse. ....

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bogman
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2010-08-31          173597


Nothing to be guilty about Earth, you gotta call'em as you see'em. I'm sure if you were to compare the Jinma to a new Ford or John Deere, it would come off like a Flintstone machine.

Now if you want to talk about material quality, the old Ferguson comes out on top. I mean like the sediment bowls for instance. The TO is a 1952 model and still has the original. A nice big knob that you can screw out partway that leaves you a little reserve, so if you run out, just open it up all the way and you have enough to make it to the barn.

Matter of fact, if I do get the broken piece out of my tank, I'm thinking of putting back an American made sediment bowl. They both have 1/2" pipe thread up to the tank. The only problem will be hooking up the foreign threads on the hose to it.

Thanks for the answer to that question Greg. ....

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richwaugh
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2010-08-31          173601


Bogman,

There's a pretty straightforward way to deal with that broken off stub in your fuel tank.

The fuel tank is steel and the broken stub is zinc alloy (pot metal), a much softer alloy than the steel. Simply determine the thread size and pitch of the stub and then drill it out. Use a drill bit that is the proper tap drill for that thread. Drill it out carefully and slowly and the bit will follow the hole nicely and take out all the pot metal except for what used to be the threads themselves. That last little bit you get out by running in the proper tap and, voila! - a clean new threaded hole ready to receive your new sediment bowl/valve assembly.

Now for the refinement: I've heard that the thread on those is very close to a standard American pipe thread. If this is true, you might be able to drill/tap it to that pipe thread and then use an aftermarket American valve and sediment bowl. You'll have to do some careful measuring and figuring to determine for sure if you can actually do this, of course. You need to be sure you'll have enough meat in the fitting on the tank to accommodate the size hole you need to make and depth of threads you'll be cutting. Fundamentally, it is only a simple ball valve and sediment bowl so almost anything should work okay. Liek the man said, these are pretty fundamentally simple tractors, right? :-)

Cheaper than a new tank, I'm sure, even if you have to buy the tap and drill bit.

Rich ....

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bogman
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2010-08-31          173603


Now that,is a plan. Just eyeballing it, it looks like 1/2" pipe thread. The ez-outs I'm using are for 1/2" pipe nipples. I just so happen to have a 3/8", 1/2" and 3/4" pipe taps. And I believe they have the drill bit size stamped on them.

Good idea about the drill bit just taking out the softer zinc and leaving the steel threads intact.

As far as connecting the hose to a SAE type thread, I'm thinking I might be able to find a barbed fitting that will fit that and just cut off the chinese fitting. Then slip the hose on and clamp it. What think you?

Thanks Rich ....

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richwaugh
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2010-09-01          173605


Well, there's certainly no pressure o nit so I'd say go for it.

Rich ....

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Murf
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2010-09-01          173612


A couple of points come to mind;

First off, a drill bit will certainly chew through threads, and pronto at that. Yes steel is harder that the casting, but bear in mind, the inner portion of the threads, the part closest to the drill bit, are very thin. Thick soft metal versus thin hard metal probably equals out.

Second, the threads are likely a Metric thread, any decent shop supply place, likely even JC Whitney and such places will have them, they're no more expensive than an Imperial one is.

Finally, if you have to pull the tank out anyways why not just cut straight to the chase? Find a brass SAE fitting the right size and braze it in place. In two minutes the whole job will be done for $5.

Oh, BTW, there's no zinc bits, and never should be, in the fuel system of a diesel. It's a good way to wreck the injectors and injection pump.

Best of luck. ....

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bogman
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2010-09-01          173641


Sorry for the late log-on Murf, it's been one of those days. Vacation is rapidly running out and the better half didn't want me to spend it all working on a tractor.

Hopefully she will leave me alone long enough tommorrow to get the tank off.

I thought about the bits in the tank as well. When I tapped the ez-outs in, I could tell something poped off on the inside. Looking at the new ones on the website, I know that was a fuel strainer screen.

So I knew it had to come off to get that out and anything else.

Unbelieveably the tank has a pretty thick sleeve welded in the bottom and I'm hoping the treads are a little smaller than 1/2" NPT. If not there's enough meat sticking out the bottom that a 1/2" sleeve could easily be welded to it.

The problem is getting the tank off. The steering wheel has to go, the fuel lever has to come off, all the wires to the instrument cluster, a major job in other words. No telling what will break getting that sucker off.

But anyway thanks for the suggestions. ....

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bogman
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2010-09-02          173666


Well I got a little time to play today and got that tank off. I wasn't as hard as I thought it would be thankfully.

The first thing I noticed was that it was all smaller than it looked like while mounted on the tractor. I took a 1/4" pipe tap and tapped that pot metal out and made some perfect threads without even touching the steel.

I got to thinking, why don't I just put a nipple then a shutoff valve then a barb fitting to a large see thru fuel filter then a barb fitting to the originol hose?

But then I figured they had to have a reason for the sediment bowl. So I looked for one at the napa online catalog. No 1/4" inlets only 3/8" NPT.

So I went back out and ran a 1/2" drill bit through the hole. It did just as advertized and just cut the pot metal to the steel threads. Then I took a 41/64" bit and just started it in the hole to give me a little taper to start the 3/8" pipe tap.

Again just as "someone" figured, it followed the steel threads chasing out the pot metal. I wound up with some perfect 3/8" NPTs.

Washed it out real good and shook all the water out. Left it in the sun to dry. Going to O'Reillys in the morning to get PN# 393 Dorman Fuel Strainer Bowl w/3/8" MNPT inlet and 1/8" FNPT outlet. I've got a 1/8" barb fitting that I had for my outboard motor tank. ....

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bogman
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2010-09-25          174183


Wow! 23 days since my last post. It took a while, but I finally got a new pump. It stayed backordered so long at farmpro.com that I finally gave up and cancelled the order.

I went through some more old threads here and found out that the NorTrac tractor that Northern Tools sells is a Jinma in disguise.

So I call Northern and sure enough they have the pump in stock. And a $100 dollars cheaper to boot. $294.00 plus $11.00 shipping. It was here in 4 days.

I put it on Thursday after work but ran out of light before I could finish everything. Yesterday after work I got the front cover back on and the radiator hose put back and filled the radiator. Then the better half wanted to go out to eat.

This morning I was chomping at the bit to get out there and see what it would do. I rechecked everything I had done and primed it to the hose coming from the filter. Left the nuts on the hard lines loose.

Turned it over and as the fluid came out solid tightened the nuts. She cranked when I tightened the first line then got stronger when I snugged the second. She really smoothed out when I got the third one tight.

I let her idle a long time while I looked everything over then took her out and mowed about 3 hrs., filled her back up and mowed another 2 hrs.

It might be my imagination but I swear it seems like she has more power than before and cranks a whole lot easier.

Big Thank You's to everyone for your help in getting her going again. ....

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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
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2010-10-14          174583


Glad you got your tractor working, Bog. You were wondering about the difference between a CUT and a ZT. I have both, with almost the same diesel engine.

The Yanmar is easier mowing long straights, and its 4WD, FEL and rear hitch are what makes it a utility machine.

Once you're experienced, the Grasshopper has agility that's hard to believe (which is why it can feel skittish if you're trying to go straight ahead). And with a leaf vacuum added to the front deck and a hopper pulled behind, it handles leaves (vacuuming, transporting, and dumping) better than anything I've tried.

But traction is poor, so you have to watch it on hills. There's no room for chains, at least with the tires I chose. You can get many attachments, but loader and hitch are not among them and you can't even pull anything that wasn't made by G'hopper.

So a ZT does some things well but for general use it won't replace a CUT. ....

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bogman
Join Date: Aug 2010
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2010-10-20          174689


Hi Auerbach, Sorry for the late reply. This site usually e-mails me when someone replies to a thread I'm watching, but didn't this time.

I'm glad to have a side by side comparison. A buddy of mine told me he was mowing his sons yard for him with a John Deere ZT. It was early but the dew had dried, so it really surprised him when he slid down the bank into the pond.

He says his Kubota CUT would have handled that with no problem. ....

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kthompson
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2010-10-21          174705


I have cut our grass with CUT and ZTR mower but my mother in law's yard has some good slope to it. Stay off of the slope if wet and but when grass was dry both my wife and I have slipped off the lawn down and through a road ditch. Not the worst ride but gets your attention. Realize on a ZTR you have no steering or traction with the front wheels which and are using the rear wheels for drive and steering and often you are expecting one wheel to be doing all the driving and steering when making sharp tunes and also don't miss the tread difference and size of tires either. Just no way a ztr has the control of a front steer, read drive mower much less a CUT. Also most ZTR run faster than most people will cut with a CUT.

....

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bogman
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2013-06-18          187388


Hi guys, the JM200 won't crank again. I've noticed the last few times I used it that it was getting harder and harder to crank. Now it won't start at all.

I took the hose from the air filter off and squirted a little starting fluid in it while turning it over but it still didn't even try to start.

I broke the lines on top of the injector pump one at a time while turning it over to make sure the pump is still pumping. Then did the same thing at the top of the lines at the injectors. Fuel comes out of all three.

Called Bob at Northern Tool and asked if he thought it was time for a new pump (this ones got 100 hours on it now)and he wanted me to take the fuel filter off, pour half the diesel out and fill it back up with conditioner put it back on. Then take the lines off the top of the pump, blow the fuel out of the top of the pump and fill them up with conditioner. Then wait 24 hours and purge the air and try it again. He's thinking maybe the diesels gelled.

Just got through doing that and still nothing. So what do you guys think? ....

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
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2013-06-19          187390


Diesel fuel doesn't gel in Louisana. And it's not varnish or shellac, because that makes the pump pistons stick. If they were stuck, you'd get no fuel out of the hard lines. This sounds more like an electrical problem than a fuel problem. How old is the battery? Have you tried to jump start it from another diesel-rated battery? Have you tried to jump start it with a screwdriver down at the starter solenoid?

//greg// ....

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Cyrus55
Join Date: Feb 2012
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2013-06-19          187392


Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_g | view 187390
Diesel fuel doesn't gel in Louisana. And it's not varnish or shellac, because that makes the pump pistons stick. If they were stuck, you'd get no fuel out of the hard lines. This sounds more like an electrical problem than a fuel problem. How old is the battery? Have you tried to jump start it from another diesel-rated battery? Have you tried to jump start it with a screwdriver down at the starter solenoid?//greg//


If Greg's idea is incorrect.......you said it turned over enough to get fuel out of lines.....

A. You might, check your valve adjustment. this problem began earlier. I worked on a Ford Dexta, an engine that starts nearly as easily as a Jinma. It would run if you pull started it, but not start with starter. I discovered the valves were NOT completely closing. After adjustment it started great!

B. If that is not the problem, I would pull the injectors, install them on the lines, but out side, and bleed system. Check output from injectors. these should be multiple orifice injectors. if one or more sprays like a squirt gun instead of creating a "fog" when you crank it over, you have a bad injector. Each should turn the fuel into a fog around the injector.
Warning do not get your hand in front of the injectors when performing this test. ....

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bogman
Join Date: Aug 2010
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2013-06-19          187393


The battery and starter are doing great, turning the key spins it over quite rapidly. The only thing I noticed about turning it over, is that when I crack the cylinder line closest to the back of the tractor to bleed it, the speed at which it turns over slows noticeably until I retighten the line.

I have never adjusted the valves (wouldn't know how to start going about that) but I can try taking the injectors out and seeing if they spray a fog.

Could a loose wire or fuse cause it to not crank? ....

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Cyrus55
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2013-06-19          187399


Quote:
Originally Posted by bogman | view 187393
The battery and starter are doing great, turning the key spins it over quite rapidly. The only thing I noticed about turning it over, is that when I crack the cylinder line closest to the back of the tractor to bleed it, the speed at which it turns over slows noticeably until I retighten the line.I have never adjusted the valves (wouldn't know how to start going about that) but I can try taking the injectors out and seeing if they spray a fog.Could a loose wire or fuse cause it to not crank?


If you mean by "crank", start, highly unlikely, as stopping is by pulling a lever unless the newer ones have converted to solenoid. If that were the case, you couldn't bleed it.....

I would check the valves, first. Especially since you said it turns over quite nicely. Valves too tight(not closing) decreases compression.
Pull valve cover and make sure, usually during rotating the engine by hand, that during two revolutions, at some time all the valves open fully(rocker arm down) and close (small space between valve and rocker arm) It takes two full revolution for that to happen. If you find that some of the valves never have the space between the rocker arm and the valve they are too tight. Not enough compression and the diesel will not ignite. that was why pulling the referenced Ford would get it to start. A preliminary way of checking would be to try to turn the engine using the fan blades(caution if they are plastic, it might not be a good idea) That's how I discovered the Ford's problem. It turned over easily that way and a diesel turns so much harder than a gasoline engine, because of the compression difference. ....

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bogman
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2013-06-19          187406


I just got through checking the injectors. Pulled them out one by one and reconnected on the outside of engine. They each shot out a nice fan of mist when turning over the starter. While they were out I noticed the orange glow of the plugs when turning it over.

I wonder if that rules out the injector pump as the source of the malfunction? If the pump was weak, would the compression stroke produce enough pressure in the cylinder to keep the mist from being able to spray?

On to the valve check now. I am dreading taking the valve cover off. ....

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bogman
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2013-06-19          187407


Ok I took the dreaded valve cover off and spun it over a few times. Everything looked good. I was able wiggle a few rocker arms when I stopped, then bumped it over and was able to wiggle the rest. None stayed tight the whole time.

Still won't start. What next? ....

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Cyrus55
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2013-06-19          187408


Quote:
Originally Posted by bogman | view 187407
Ok I took the dreaded valve cover off and spun it over a few times. Everything looked good. I was able wiggle a few rocker arms when I stopped, then bumped it over and was able to wiggle the rest. None stayed tight the whole time.Still won't start. What next?


I think the injector pump is ok, and the valves appear to work correctly.
I;m stymied. More "drinkin' and thinkin'" required.
Oh, and why were your glow plugs glowing? ....

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bogman
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2013-06-19          187409


I'm guessing they come on when you have the key in the start position. They quit glowin when I quit crankin.

If you were to do a compression check on the cylinders, would you unscrew the glow plugs and screw the gauge in there?

What would a good pressure be? ....

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Cyrus55
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2013-06-19          187410


Quote:
Originally Posted by bogman | view 187409
I'm guessing they come on when you have the key in the start position. They quit glowin when I quit crankin.If you were to do a compression check on the cylinders, would you unscrew the glow plugs and screw the gauge in there?What would a good pressure be?


All my Jinma tractors have glow plugs in the intake manifold. I take it yours are in the head? Usually compression testing is done thru the injector hole. Most important is that all are nearly the same pressure. I'd guess the pressure would be in the 200 PSI range or more....... ....

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bogman
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2013-06-19          187411


Mine are in the head, right between the injectors and the valve cover.

Come on in here Greg, what say you? ....

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greg_g
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2013-06-20          187413


You say it's spinning over quite fast. Is your tractor equipped with manual compression release? If it's the Y380 engine, I'm guessing the answer is yes - an engine by the way, with glow plugs as opposed to a manifold heater.

//greg// ....

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bogman
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2013-06-20          187416


You are correct, it is a Y380. It does have a manual decompression lever. That was the trickiest part of putting the valve cover back on after checking to see if the valves were being allowed to fully seat. I won't be able to see if I did that correctly until it is running.

....

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greg_g
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2013-06-21          187424


Ok, that's important. Because you probably noticed a secondary rockshaft under the valve cover. That's the actual compression release. It gets out of adjustment just like the primary. When you do a valve lash adjust, the compression release must also be adjusted to compensate for any changes you made. There's a chance that the compression release is preventing at least one valve from closing completely.

//greg// ....

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bogman
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2013-06-21          187431


I checked the decompression lever today to make sure it working correctly. All's well there.

I'm going to get some fresh diesel tomorrow and drain all the old out and try that.

Other than that, could the timing have gotten off somehow? ....

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greg_g
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2013-06-22          187437


You don't understand. The decompression lever is merely the operator end of the linkage that engages/disengages the actual decompression rockshaft, which resides under the valve cover. On this rockshaft are three nubs - one for each cylinder - which are adjusted with a screwdriver and a feeler gauge. As valves and valve seats wear - and after every valve lash adjust - these nubs must be readjusted to compensate. If as few as one is set incorrectly, it can result in a permanently open valve - which essentially disables that cylinder. A partially open valve caused by a decompression rockshaft that is out of adjustment cannot be detected at the decompression lever.

Diesel timing is controlled by fuel delivery, and fuel delivery is regulated by the injection pump. The actual adjustment is a physical rotation of the pump itself. So if you have no reason to believe that your pump hasn't moved, there's no reason at this point to believe it's timing. Besides performance issues, incorrect timing is also usually accompanied by abnormally colored exhaust smoke.

//greg// ....

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bogman
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2013-06-22          187441


When I removed the valve cover to see if the rocker arms were too tight, not allowing the valves to fully retract, I noted the way the rockshaft arm for the decompression lever operated. This arm has three screws running through it with a locknut on one side. These screws protruded a bit out of the side of the rockshaft arm. And that by turning the decompression lever the normal horizontal position of the screws would be rotated 90 degrees to depress the tops of three of the valves, one for each of the three cylinders(I don't know if these are the intake or exhaust valves). With the rockshaft arm in the normal or operating position (screws horizontal)it does not contact the top of the valves. So I am having trouble understanding how that can be affecting the valves.

....

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greg_g
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2013-06-25          187487


An out-of-adjustment decompression rockshaft may do one of two things;
(a) not contact the valve stems at all (it only needs to unseat one valve to achieve decompression)
(b) stick in a vertical or near-vertical position on even one valve stem (causing at least one valve to remain unseated)
When this happens, it's possible that he control lever below the steering wheel rotate/return normally - giving the operator the impression that the decompression system is performing normally as well.

But as long as you've confirmed it returns to the horizontal under it's own spring tension, a decompression rockshaft issue becomes moot.

Back to something else that's inconsistent. You reopened this topic stating that it would hardly turn over, but not long after said it's turning quite rapidly. What happened in between?

//greg// ....

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bogman
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2013-06-25          187492


"Hi guys, the JM200 won't crank again. I've noticed the last few times I used it that it was getting harder and harder to crank. Now it won't start at all."

Sorry for the confusion with the terminology Greg. You're the second person who's had trouble with my use of the word "crank". I should've used the word start above.

I got a torque wrench from my cousin yesterday and am going to re-torque my head and do the valve lash adjustment this morning.

Oh and the reason I said that I felt that my decompression lever was working correctly is because that while turning it over, I can turn the lever and it will start turning over much faster. ....

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bogman
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2013-06-28          187532


Just an update. I did the head bolt re-torque and valve lash procedure and the valves did need adjusting. It did nothing to help her start though.

So yesterday I called the tractor doctor and within a few seconds, he made a diagnosis. Broken rings or hole in pistons on one or two cylinders.

He said he could tell because of how fast it was turning over. And also by taking the oil fill cap off the valve cover and having me turn it over, he put his hand over the hole and felt blow back. He said the pressure from the compression stroke on the affected cylinders was leaking past the pistons down into the crankcase and back up through the valve cover.

So I got it to his shop and after he tears it down, I'll let you know what it was. ....

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bogman
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2013-07-01          187550


Update; The mechanic said the rings on two of the pistons were seized, one severely. The sleeves looked good though, so I just ordered 3 sets of rings, 3 sets of rod brgs., 1 piston and gaskets.

He said it had to have run hot at some point. I remember now late last summer I lost the fan belt while bush-hogging. I shut it down immediately when the temp.gauge went hot. Afterwards it started up and has progressively gotten harder to start since then. ....

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DennisCTB
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2013-07-01          187552


Thanks for the update. Let us know how th repair goes. ....

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bogman
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2013-07-10          187616


Got her back from the doc today. She's running like a brand new tractor again. The parts summary from Northern Tool follows;

Your order summary:

Item# Description Price Quantity Total -------------

YJY38001002 CYL HEAD GASKET $16.68 1 $16.68 -------------

YJY385T101029 OIL SUMP CVR GASKET $7.80 1 $7.80

YJY38003005 VALVE COVER GASKET $9.42 1 $9.42

YJY48503013 INTAKE MANIFOLD GASKET $5.68 3 $17.04

YJY48503006A GASKET, EXHST MANIFOLD $2.04 3 $6.12

YJY48004000 PISTON RING SET,SINGLE CYLINDE $34.76 3 $104.28

YJY48004005 PISTON $53.87 1 $53.87

YJY480G04003 CONN ROD BEARING SHELL $13.04 3 $39.12

Subtotal $254.33

Shipping $10.49

Tax $.00

Total $264.82

The tractor doctor charged $370.00 to fix her, which I didn't think was bad at all. Northern said 4 days to get the parts to me and with it being the 4th of July week I didn't think that was going to happen, but it did!

So after 11 years of use, I've had to change the injector pump a couple of years ago (less than $300.00)which was my fault and now this $635.00. Other than that just normal maintenance expense.

I'm still happy with this little tractor! ....

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