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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2009-12-23          167663


Here's a wacky idea.

Hypothetically, say a guy had an auto hauling trailer with runners (not flatbed) and also wanted a four-post lift to work under the car.

Would it be feasible to modify the trailer to have four flip-down screw jacks (or other secure jacks) to raise the whole thing up a couple of feet for working under the car? If you could get the bottom of the trailer runners 4-5 feet off the ground it would be nice to sit on a rolling work stool and just roll it under the car. Sure the trailer axles would get in the way but you should be able to work in the front and rear ends of the car without too much interference.

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2009-12-23          167664


The side lift hoists with the four arms that swing under a car aren't too expensive. I've saw used ones for less than a thousand bucks. Big problem tho is getting someone to install it, and your insurance man to look the other way. I bought a single post air over hydraulic once from a guy who tore down old gas stations but before I went after it he called and cancelled the deal. His insurance compamy said that if it were improperly installed by anyone, including me and killed or hurt anyone that he still could be liable, so I never got the hoist.
Best solution I came up with was home built in a steep sidehill with two old 8 X 8 barn beams with a couple 2 X 8 planks nailed on the sides for a guide. It just simply came out from the sidehill sitting on four good eight inch creosote corner posts. worked fine till we moved to a different place, don't know if the "Hoist" is still there or not. Frank. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2009-12-23          167665


A real two poster would be nice but the garage isn't tall enough to make one worthwhile. With the trailer approach you could work on a low car in the garage or a taller vehicle out in the driveway. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2009-12-23          167668


Quote:
Originally Posted by kwschumm | view 167665
With the trailer approach you could work on a low car in the garage or a taller vehicle out in the driveway.


The average garage for a car has a door that is 8' wide and 7' tall. The width of a standard car trailer is 100" or 102" wide to allow for a deck that is 78" or 80" wide.

I'd be surprised if the trailer would fit into the garage, and if it's only 7' tall, I doubt it would clear the header with a car on top either.

The other issue is the cost, it would be more money to do this than to (as Frank mentioned) just buy a hoist.

The simplest way (and IMHO safest) way to work under a car is to make either a pit the car can straddle, or a pair of ramps (maybe incorporated into a retaining wall) such that there is room to get under the car.

My friend's Dad did this years ago, they had a retaining wall that supported a space to park an RV, as well as the back portion of the garage. He made a pair of buttresses that projected out as supports for the wall, but spaced such that he could drive out onto them leaving room between them to work (oil changes mostly) under the car.

Best of luck. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2009-12-23          167669


They already make a 4-post lift on a trailer--they're used to haul a boat above a car for RVers. Some guys use them to work on racecars.

Either Harbor Freight or Northern Tool sells an "auto rotisserie" which attaches to the front and rear of the body and allows you roll the car nearly 360 degrees---like barbque a spit. Other types you drive on and secure to it. Wide hoops at both ends allow the car rock onto its side--like a rocking chair.

And being the inventive guy I am, if I wanted to do what you propose--in a pinch it would be "easy"--my famous last words--to use a flat deck car trailer with car cinched down, and turn it into a rotisserie: a cherry picker with a wide base could be modified to have a trailer hitch ball at the vertical post. The trailer tongue would be lifted by the picker's own jack. Basically the same set up at the rear of the trailer would be needed, except it would need a pivot point such as a traler ball like the front. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2009-12-23          167673


Okay, Northern has them. They call it an "auto twirler": the standard model starts at $800. Bascially it would take the place of cherry pickers aforementioned.

Another idea is buy this unit and you could either mount it to the trailer, or leave the roll around casters on it and that would let you roll it on/off as you wish. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2009-12-23          167674


The car I'm working on has interesting jacking points.

Directly in front of each rear wheel and behind each front wheel are ~1" ID pipes, about 6" long, welded directly to the unibody perpendicular to the cars axis and flush with the running boards. The spare tire jack has a rod that gets inserted in these jacking points to lift the car.

So another idea was to build a "car pallet" that could be lifted with the loader. It could lock into these jacking points to locate the car and once on a strong loader it could be tilted up rotisserie style.

Unfortunately, even though the car only weighs 2000 lbs soaking wet it's still too much for my loader.

A rotisserie would be nice but since the body will be sent out to be dipped/blasted and painted I could probably do without. ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2009-12-23          167675


Like EW said the easiest way to work on the bottom of a car is to turn it on it's side. That really isn't nothing new here in the sticks. The neighbor kids had an old Chevy 47-48? I'm not sure, it always had a clutch out, tranny grining, or something. So growing tired of crawling under it they took the old Allis WC, threw a chain over the top, tied it to the door post and over she went, got er fixed flopped her back on the wheels and away we went. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2009-12-23          167677


Okay, Northern has them. They call it an "auto twirler": the standard model starts at $800. Bascially it would take the place of cherry pickers aforementioned.

Another idea is buy this unit and you could either mount it to the trailer, or leave the roll around casters on it and that would let you roll it on/off as you wish. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2009-12-23          167680


Quote:
Originally Posted by earthwrks | view 167677
Okay, Northern has them. They call it an "auto twirler": the standard model starts at $800. Bascially it would take the place of cherry pickers aforementioned. Another idea is buy this unit and you could either mount it to the trailer, or leave the roll around casters on it and that would let you roll it on/off as you wish.


Got a link or stock number? A search for "auto twirler" on their web site turns up bupkus and I usually just toss the catalogs they send out. I've seen a few of these - even saw one a guy made out of a couple of heavy duty engine stands. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2009-12-23          167684


118542-2806. Needs 18" to mount
118540-2806. Needs 40" to mount

They have variations for more money of hydraulic lift and/or powdercoat. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2009-12-23          167691


Quote:
Originally Posted by earthwrks | view 167684
118542-2806.Needs 18" to mount118540-2806.Needs 40" to mountThey have variations for more money of hydraulic lift and/or powdercoat.


Thanks EW. You must be looking at a catalog since the website says those items are no longer available. However, stock number 157845 is probably similar. There are a number of those around but they are probably limited to bodywork because the engine, suspension, etc. add a lot of weight. Of course you wouldn't want to turn a car on it's side with all the fluids filled.
....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2009-12-23          167695


Yup it's a nice hardbound book over an inch thick. 2008 year though. As far turning a car on its side the only questionable things to remove would be the battery that I can think of and the fuel. The roll-to-one-side type system are popular in the UK for muffler work, or at least that is what I saw the marketing ad for. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7142 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2009-12-24          167699


Quote:
Originally Posted by earthwrks | view 167695
As far turning a car on its side the only questionable things to remove would be the battery that I can think of and the fuel.


You also have to be very careful to either leave the car sitting back on it's wheels for some time after rotating it, or pull out all the spark plugs.

It's surprisingly easy for oil or gas to seep up into the cylinders, turning over an engine with liquid in the cylinders is a great way to kill it in short order. Liquid is not compressible. You can blow head gaskets, destroy starters and or ring gears, pop or wedge pistons, all sorts of nasty stuff can happen.

Best of luck. ....

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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2168 West of Toronto
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2009-12-24          167700


When I got my trailer I asked here for comments about removing boards in the center, driving a car on (outside), and using a creeper. Forgot the reasons given against it, but just as well -- not as easy to remove boards as it looks.

Many firms sell "car rotissaries." You'd have to watch the battery acid, and hadn't thought about the plugs too.

Garage pits are illegal in some jurisdictions because of fumes or accidents. There's often hoists on sites like Craig's List and Kijiji.

Here's a new two-poster. Each has wheels so the posts can store against a wall. Tilt and wheel them over to bolt-receivers you sank in the floor, and screw the post feet into them. Called MaxJax. Doesn't lift quite as high as most hoists.

Then there's the self-tilting or teeter-totter ramp. You drive up the ramps (usually adjustable for separation). When on, drive forward a bit more, and the top of the structure changes from tilted up to horizontal by tilting down from the weight of the vehicle, through a pivot under where the ramps attach. One company made and sold them but can't find it now. There's a video on one in use on YouTube, I think under teeter-totter ramp or hoist. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2009-12-24          167701


Thanks Auerbach, that MaxJack two poster looks pretty neat. I'll have to do some height measuring but that might be the way to go. ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2009-12-24          167703


Auer;
I never thought about those teeter totter ramp things the auto dealerships use out front with their bargan of the week up on. Maybe buy the car and the ramps will go with it.
Murf;
We weren't smart enough to think about the oil leaking out and all that when we rolled the old Chevy on er side. I think our total tool inventory consisted of a vice grip, screwdriver, and probably a twelve inch crescent. The pistons were likely loose enough that the oil slid back down in a few seconds. ....

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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2168 West of Toronto
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2010-01-13          168022


More on the MaxJax

Received the below email. Wasn't able to replicate the "click here for the video" address, but you should be able to retrieve it from the site below. You'll see that it doesn't lift as high as other units.


Legendery talk show host and car collector Jay Leno is a proud new owner of a Dannmar MaxJax™ Lifting System. So proud in fact, that he saw fit to demo it on his website: www.jaylenosgarage.com.


....

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hardwood
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2010-01-13          168023


I'd think that by now ole Jay would tell NBC what to kiss and go play with his cars. That O'brien guy who tried to replace Jay was about as funny as an undertaker. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
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2010-01-13          168024


The MaxJax looks pretty good but it seems about $700 too expensive for what it does. You can buy full size lifts for nearly the same price and they will raise a car 2-4 feet higher. No portability though and high ceilings are required.

I'm punting on the lift idea though. I'll use a body rotisserie and tall jack stands instead. ....

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auerbach
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2010-01-14          168037


That's what I emailed them: lower the price and raise the height, and I'll buy one.

The designer wouldn't want the posts to be too high for easy moving around, but the innards could have been a nest of three rather than of two (if that's clear). ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2010-01-14          168039


Quote:
Originally Posted by auerbach | view 168022
Legendery talk show host and car collector Jay Leno is a proud new owner of a Dannmar MaxJax™ Lifting System. So proud in fact, that he saw fit to demo it on his website: www.jaylenosgarage.com.


I wouldn't exactly put a lot of credence in what a particular celebrity endorses.

I'm pretty sure the endorsement has more to do with how high the price got, and not how high the car got. ;)

Best of luck. ....

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kwschumm
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2010-01-14          168040


The other thing about the MaxJack design is that it seems that the concrete bolt retention holes would loosen up after a few uses. The threaded concrete inserts I've used don't exactly seem well suited to multiple cycles. Now if there was a big T-nut type of retainer embedded in fresh concrete that might be another story.
....

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Auto trailer hoist combo idea Nuts

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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2168 West of Toronto
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2010-01-15          168056


Yes, celebrity endorsements are as logical as buying "Tiger Woods" to be irresistable to women. I reported the site not because Leno accepted a freebie but
because it clearly shows the MaxJax in action.

Yes, the floor mount system could be a weak spot, I was thinking because of solid and liquid waste plugging the hole. (To vary the post separation you need to buy extra sets.)

Still awaiting a breakthrough, meanwhile keeping my floor jacks and stands. ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
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2010-01-15          168060


We all choose to belief different levels but what little I know of Leno he does no real endorsements are at least not like most do. He really is a car collector and is shown on auto shows as knowing a good bit on them.

Not sure but was he the one who bought a Harley built for Elvis and it was a junk machine and not known when he did so? Think it was him. Great story who ever it was. ....

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DZLDENNY
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2010-01-19          168146


Those car-b-q jobs are meant to be used with engines and trans ect removed. I looked at them a while back.

Also the "tall" jack stands I've seen are not rated to hold a car. A buddy of mine has a two post hoist and uses those stands to hold up exhaust pipes and gas tanks ect. That's all they are intended for. BE CAREFUL!

I'd watch Craigslist and e-pay for a used hoist. Folks are hurtin fer cash nowadays. Once you use one, you'll find it was way worth the investment. Don't be afraid to post a wanted ad either. Good luck, Denny ....

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kwschumm
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2010-01-20          168150


Quote:
Originally Posted by DZLDENNY | view 168146
Those car-b-q jobs are meant to be used with engines and trans ect removed. I looked at them a while back. Also the "tall" jack stands I've seen are not rated to hold a car. A buddy of mine has a two post hoist and uses those stands to hold up exhaust pipes and gas tanks ect. That's all they are intended for. BE CAREFUL!I'd watch Craigslist and e-pay for a used hoist. Folks are hurtin fer cash nowadays. Once you use one, you'll find it was way worth the investment. Don't be afraid to post a wanted ad either. Good luck, Denny


Not sure what you mean about the tall jack stands not rated to hold a car. Shouldn't a 2-ton jackstand should be able to hold two tons? Now if I put four of them under a car that weighs less than 2 tons it seems there would be plenty of safety margin. At most 500lbs each. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2010-01-20          168151


Ken, I think what he's getting at is not just the vertical weight carrying capacity of the stands. The tall ones (more than ~36" high) that I've seen all say not to use them to support a vehicle, they are intended, and I believe called, safety stands.

They are intended to support the car in the case of the hoist failing, or to stabilize it for working on it, while the car is in the air on a lift and you are under it.

If you've ever worked on a car while it's sitting on a 2 post hoist, you'll know what I mean, there's a surprising amount of motion in the vehicle.

Best of luck. ....

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kwschumm
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2010-01-20          168152


Murf, I know what you're saying. But sometimes companies use terms like "safety stands" to weasel out of any liability claim. That said, I have been looking for a four-post lift. Wish the garage door was a roll-up instead of a segmented door though, that would add three feet of clearance. Or I could go into hock and just build the dang shop that I've always wanted. ....

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oneace
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2010-03-26          169560


I have some thing similar to this I bought mine at a auto swap meet type place. Look about half way down the page. Once you get the car on the ramp you use a floor jack to lift the other end. I paid around $550 for what I have.

Here is a differnet option.


http://www.gotogroupbuy.com/488/EZCARLIFT.aspx?gclid=CNHA6oLx16ACFQUhnAodPksBCQ ....


Link:   Different wedges

 
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