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The effects of greenhouse gases

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2009-01-04          159060


Check out this link (it may not say what you expect). To say that "scientific facts" are all over the map would be an understatement. Maybe the competing factions should just duel it out and leave the rest of us alone.


Link:   Greenhouse gases cause cooling

 
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The effects of greenhouse gases

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2009-01-04          159064


Must be we aren't the only country to give grant money to scientists who can't get a real job. I've often wondered if I could get a million dollar, or more grant from Uncle Sam to study the affect of giraffe droppings on midwest soil. ....

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The effects of greenhouse gases

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2009-01-04          159065


The way we fund science is a disgrace. Most money goes towards crisis science, therefore it pays scientists to promote every theory as a crisis. Then scientists are castigated if they have a theory that doesn't pan out, creating incentive to manipulate data to prove their theories correct. It seems there should be as much value placed in knowing what is false as there is in knowing what is true. ....

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The effects of greenhouse gases

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2009-01-04          159066


KW; I'm all for scientific research that deals with helping to solve disease, hunger, and other current problems. It just seems such a waste of time, talent, and money to pay these folks to speculate on what the world will be like in six million years. ....

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The effects of greenhouse gases

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2009-01-04          159067


Quote:
Originally Posted by hardwood | view 159066
KW; I'm all for scientific research that deals with helping to solve disease, hunger, and other current problems. It just seems such a waste of time, talent, and money to pay these folks to speculate on what the world will be like in six million years.


Can't argue with that :) ....

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The effects of greenhouse gases

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AnnBrush
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 462 Troy OH
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2009-01-05          159084


It seems logical to me that pollution (including production of greenhouse gasses) is probably not good for our planet. In that case I ask myself what kind of planet do I want to give to my children.

For me its that simple. Will our children look at our deeds and say they tried their best or will they say they didn't care. Will they pay dearly for our economic incentive to do nothing?

I don't know but I suspect that pollution is generally not good and while I may not feel the effects now my children may suffer as a result.

If recent history is any guide our current actions are causing harm. Think about PCB's, and how many of you eat fish you catch in rivers, levels of asthma in kids and all manner of current known pollutants that were considered "safe" at some time in our past. ....

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The effects of greenhouse gases

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2009-01-05          159087


Given all the natural sources of greenhouse gases on planet earth one has to wonder if they should be classified as pollutants at all. A good volcanic eruption can pump out more greenhouse gases than the entire industrialized world. But for political reasons only greenhouse gases caused by humans and bovines are bad. Yeah, that makes sense.

I don't advocate for real pollutants though, it's the fake ones I have a problem with. ....

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____________________________________________________________________________________
The effects of greenhouse gases

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cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1303 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
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2009-01-05          159104


Being conscious of your habits and making corrections to preserve resources for our children is the moral and right thing to do. Recycle and do what you can to keep our environment clean.

On the other hand, the current "movement" is simply a way to control people through the use of scare tactics and junk science. We would be better off increasing the littering fines incrementally, to financially painful levels and enforcing them. And for those that claim they have no income to pay, we pick up the litter on weekends.


....

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The effects of greenhouse gases

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AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
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2009-01-07          159178


In the 20s and 30s there was a popular pseudo science movement called eugenics. It was essentially racial profiling and had quite a following with pseudo scientists and celebrities of the day. Then after the Third Reich adopted many of the same principles, it became very unpopular. Most people have to look up the word today.

Greenhouse gasses fall into the same pseudo science realm. Many of the predictions are based on modeling programs that cannot tell me if it is going to snow two weeks from now and even have a hard time predicting if an entire season is going to be severe or light from a weather standpoint. Extrapolating those models to make dire predictions of doom and gloom should be treated like yelling fire in a crowded theatre. ....

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The effects of greenhouse gases

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2009-01-07          159179


Quote:
Originally Posted by AC5ZO | view 159178
Many of the predictions are based on modeling programs that cannot tell me if it is going to snow two weeks from now and even have a hard time predicting if an entire season is going to be severe or light from a weather standpoint.


It's funny you say that. I commented to a friend of mine, who is generally very intelligent, that it's ridiculous to believe that scientists can predict what weather will be like in 100 years when they can't predict what it will be like a week from now.

His comment: "It's a lot easier to extrapolate long term trends than short term trends.".

My response: "That's only because there's no accountability 100 years from now, since all of today's scientists will be dead."
....

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The effects of greenhouse gases

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5111 Northern Nevada
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2009-01-09          159239


It isn't just about scare tactics and employing scientists who can't find a real job......

There is a taxing scheme built into the mix. They will get more money from your paycheck if enough people buy into the hype. ....

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The effects of greenhouse gases

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crunch
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 264 Niagara County, NY
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2009-01-10          159268


My standard answer for long run statements or extrapolations is that no one has ever observed the long run. It is a sample size of less than 1. For instance, take the financial experts that failed the predict the current recession but so confidently tell us how to mix our investments based on our age.

Long run forecasts typically include dummy variables to account for past perturbations in the model. So they predict the future assuming only these same perturbations will occur in the future. The "long run" will introduce new perturbations wih unknown probability. ....

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The effects of greenhouse gases

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AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
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2009-01-12          159342


Certainly there is a benefit to the government if people buy into the pseudo-science, both from a tax and control standpoint. It is much easier for a group of leaders to motivate a group of willing uninformed participants. A large percentage of new voters in the past election thought that the Republicans controlled the 110th Congress and wanted to "throw the bums out." Throwing the bums out (whether there is an R or D next to their name) might be a good idea in many cases if you know who the proper targets are.

I agree with the concept of minimal polution and environmental impact. But, this banner has been taken up by socialists that want to push a much stronger agenda that will cripple the US. I support new technologies that produce less polution. I use solar panels and have a hybrid car as well as my larger four wheel drive vehicles. Life is about balance, not extremes.

There is no question that we have seen some environmental extremes in the past decade. CO2 is also on the rise. But is the CO2 a cause or the effect of rising solar activity? Correlation is not the same as causation. If you shot 100 rabbits and they all died, are you making the case that increased lead level in their enviroment is leading to their decline? Some would. ....

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