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TZ24 HST Filter Failure

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jtfirth
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 56 Ontario, Canada
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2008-12-27          158869


Has anyone experienced failure of the HST filter in cold weather. This is the second time that mine has "let go" spilling most of the hydraulic oil on the garage floor and in the driveway. The first time, while under warranty, it was repaired by the dealer who mentioned that there was a special filter for cold weather use, which I assumed that he installed. Apparently not because less than 100 hours of use later the second filter failed. Same problem, same results! Downright maddening with all of that oil to clean up. BTW, the cold weather filter is only $112.00 but is made like a tank! Who should be responsible - owner, dealer or NH?

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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2168 West of Toronto
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2008-12-27          158874


Since it was not a case of owner/operator error, it's another one of the many problems that seem to crop up with new NHs. It may be the manufacturer's fault, but since you dealt with the dealer (who did not alert you to this), your locus of recourse is there. If you demand or win redress from the dealer, the dealer will very likely get reimbursed my the maker.

But I'm wondering about the dealer's story. Don't know how many hours recommended between replacements or how long you run the machine, but surely these filters are expected to last years, not just a single season. In fact (not that I've heard of everything), I've never heard of a seasonal filter. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2008-12-28          158875


I've never heard of the special filter. Might you be thinking of a heater for the coolant? Or a block heater?

100 hours is a really long time for something other than the filter to go. If something was bad it may be the filter. Did the dealer replace it with an aftermarket--non-NH-marked filter? There are many posts here even for other makes that have had similar issues only to find out the wrong filter was used---it's too easy for a technician to grab a filter off the shelf and only look at:

If the overall size is the same--which doesn't always apply--I have a replacement filter for machine that is half the size of the OEM.

If the threads are the same--which doesn't always apply: sometimes the threads are metric, and sometimes the threaded portion can be higher or lower inside the filter itself so it may bottom out, or not fully seat.

Also they have no clue iof the filter media is rated for fuel or hydraulics, and if so is it rated for filtering same. And can it withstand bursting or vacuum? Does it have an internal relief/bypass valve?

I have a hunch--just a hunch--that perhaps your machine has more than its share of moisture in the system. Perhaps, ice crystals formed in the filter media and clogged it resulting in the bursting. If that's the case, I think it's the wrong filter as there should be a bypass to relieve the fluid.

Also, some spin-on fliters which look like any other fliter are used specifically to prevent water in a system--I have one on my hand-pump fuel transfer tank. When it is exposed to water it actually swells up inside and prevents pumping.

Bottom line, I would play dumb with the dealer. You don't want to piss in their coffee right of the bat, so you have to decide what your plan will be as you go. Be forewarned though calling the NH Customer (No)Service Line, will get you nowhere---they are a bunch of useless college kids working as subcontractors for an answering service. They know absolutely nothing about tractors nor do they care. And it can take months to get a half-assed answer back from them. I've gotten back answers that didn't even apply to my machine. My advice is if you don't get anywhere with the delaer right off the bat, talk to an attorney. It will probably cost the same to have them fix it right as it will paying a dealer. I had a situation with NH and mentioned "my attorney" and they sat up, took notice and ened up buying my machine back and gave me a $13,000 discount. ....

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jtfirth
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 56 Ontario, Canada
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2008-12-28          158876


The tractor only has 166 hours of running time on it. The original HST filter was replaced at the 50-hour service interval and then again during the second winter of operation. The HST filter that failed the second time is a NH part and it is printed very clearly on the filter body that it's good for 300 hours. The cold weather filter has the same information printed on the body and it is the same size as the one that failed. The difference between them however is like night and day. The cold weather filter is built from machined aluminum that appears to be about 1/4" thick and has larger openings for the oil flow through. The defective one is your standard design made from stamped sheet metal that is relatively thin.

BTW, I also replaced the hydraulic oil with NH's F200 multi-viscosity oil that can be used year-round and is recommended for cold weather operation. At over 10 bucks a liter it better be worth it! I'm not taking any more chances. ....

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jtfirth
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 56 Ontario, Canada
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2008-12-28          158878


Take a look at photo "jtfirth1" in the TractorPoint Members Photos and you will see the difference between New Holland's cold weather HST filter and their standard (defective) filter. Like the say, "A picture is worth a thousand words..." ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2008-12-28          158879


Hey your picture didn't work out. Just sows a box with an x.

On your railroad: do you have a need for saw made for cutting railroad track perfectly? I have one for sale and I'm across the "stream" from you too. It's a Stanley RS25. ....

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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2168 West of Toronto
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2008-12-28          158881


JT has his own railroad. EW has a saw for cutting train rails.

I gotta lie down. ....

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TZ24 HST Filter Failure

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jtfirth
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 56 Ontario, Canada
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2008-12-28          158882


I'm not sure what your problem is with the photo. It works for me. Do any photos for other members work?

The saw might be a tad big for what I'm doing. My railroad is HO scale - 1:87! ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2008-12-28          158883


Oh, your profile doesn't say SCALE MODEL railroad.

Poor Auerbach--he got all disgusted over nuttin'.

But don't dispair Auer, I sell YOU the saw, 'k? ....

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jtfirth
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 56 Ontario, Canada
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2008-12-28          158885


It does now. Sorry to both for the confusion and disappointment. ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2008-12-29          158906


Jtfirth,

New Holland wouldn't have to make a cold-weather filter, if only they would provide a high pressure bypass valve in the filter line.

A high pressure bypass valve is designed to open when the pressure reaches an unacceptably high value. The valve then opens, allowing oil to flow freely through the circuit, though not through the filter. Once the oil warms up and thins out a bit, the bypass valve closes and the oil is again diverted through the filter.

You can probably purchase a bypass valve to install on your tractor. It will replace the filter housing. It's really nothing more than a spring and ball valve. When the pressure is too high, the spring compresses, allowing oil to flow past the ball, without restriction.

Most such devices have an indicator on them, showing you when the bypass valve is open. It shouldn't be open very often, as you normally want your oil to flow through the filter media.

This would save you all kinds of problems, and New Holland would be far better off by installing something like this on their tractors, rather than making such an expensive replacement filter.

Joel ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5219 South Carolina
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2008-12-30          158925


The picture link does not work for me either.

It is amazing to think NH would have a different filter depending on the temp. So we have been in the 20's this fall and last Saturday low 70's. Do all NH users pull over and switch their filters with such temp changes or blow them or what? Sure glad I bought orange and think Blue was in there for a while. ....

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jtfirth
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 56 Ontario, Canada
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2008-12-30          158930


I just got off the phone with my dealer and he told me that NH has recently released a new filter with a built-in bypass valve to eliminate the filter failure problem when the tractor is used during cold weather. The best part is that it sells for about $30.00 instead of $112.00!

It kind of makes a statement that NH knew it had a problem and has finally addressed it. I'm still waiting for compensation but not holding my breath... ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2008-12-30          158933


Jtfirth,

I'm happy to hear that the folks at New Holland finally got around to consulting with an engineer to figure out how to properly address this problem.

But now I'm wondering if the new housing allows the user to visually inspect the bypass valve, so that he/she can easily tell whether or not the bypass valve has stuck open.

If the new bypass valve doesn't include a visual indicator, it's highly possible that the tractor could be operated for over 200 hours between fluid changes, without a filter in place. Well......the filter would certainly be there, but the question remains as to whether or not any fluid was actually flowing through it.

Please keep us posted.

Joel

....

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jtfirth
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 56 Ontario, Canada
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2008-12-30          158934


Hi Joel,

I mentioned the same concern to the service manager and he tended to agree, that although this seemed to be a remedy for an on-going cold weather problem there is no way to know that the oil is being filtered. Since it's a mechanical by-pass then it too is prone to failure and the unsuspecting operator may be headed for catastrophic results. Even though the cold weather filter that I installed is much more expensive I have more peace of mind knowing that it's doing it's job, especially since the tractor is no longer under warranty.

I'm waiting for dealer to call back with an "olive branch" offer to settle this claim that works for both of us. I'll keep you posted. ....

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TZ24 HST Filter Failure

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5219 South Carolina
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2008-12-30          158936


Years ago knew of a oil filter failure that was sold by NAPA. They paid for the oil change. I think if their part caused other prodlems they are responable. Surely they will not balk at such. Best way to loose a customer. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7141 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2008-12-30          158939


It sounds to me like it's a combination of a poor filter design and the wrong weight of oil.

Our 'Botas run what the factory calls SUDT or PUDT, it is a multi-viscosity hydraulic oil with a 5W-30 weight.

If you are running the typical 30W 'universal' oil it will be a LOT thicker in cold weather.

Things like filter seals and crimp seams are not meant to take much in the way of pressure against them.

Best of luck. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2008-12-30          158943


Kenny halve yew knot yet lerned the diffrance between loose and lose?

I know, I know---dictionaries are for people who KNOW how to spell. LOL ....

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Thumper09
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2 North Dakota
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2009-01-12          159359


I had a IH DX25E with the same system you have, and there is a winter filter that can be used year round. My dealer in Grand Forks ND said they are a 2 micron filter and they have had a couple of them pop off. They are not using that filter any more up here. We just got our NH T2220 and I was told that the filter on it is a year round filter, I've used this tractor at -10 with no issues. I would talk to your dealer, this is a known problem with the Case/IH and NH.

That winter filter is good for year round also.
Hope this helps.

....

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jtfirth
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 56 Ontario, Canada
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2009-01-12          159360


Thumper09,

I've opened a claim with NH and I'm waiting for the service rep to contact my dealer. The claim was made on January 2nd and, according to the dealer today, there's still no word what will be done. Still sitting here with my fingers crossed.

BTW, "Little Blue" is running just fine again with the new cold weather filter and F200 all-weather HST hydraulic oil. ....

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jtfirth
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 56 Ontario, Canada
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2009-01-20          159646


Good news! The NH service rep called today and listened to my side of the story after talking to the dealer. We reached a mutually agreeable solution where NH will pick up the tab for the multi-viscosity HST oil and I'll pay for the "bullet-proof" cold weather filter, which I think is fair.

My detailed log of events since I purchased the tractor just over 4 years ago along with photos to show what happened paid off. Definitely a "thumbs up" to New Holland's Top Service!

I highly recommend that anyone who lives in a cold climate area consider spending the extra bucks for the cold weather equipment unless your tractor is stored in a heated building. ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5219 South Carolina
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2009-01-21          159674


Thanks for the update. Always good to hear when a company does what is "fair" which is all they should but should do that. ....

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bloggins
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 103 Kingston, Ontario
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2014-01-02          188570


Darn, the same thing just happened to me today. It's -25C outside and the filter just burst open and dumped a lot of hyrdraulic fluid on the ground. Made my way back to the garage. Fortunately, I'm 10 hours away from a hydrostatic oil change and I have the oil & filter on hand. Whats the best oil absober as my garage floor has a gallon spread out on it? I've always used AMSOIL synthetic gear oil, so I thought it would flow better in cold temps...it did flow well...right out of the filter! ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2014-01-02          188574


Bloggins,

I'm not familiar with the New Holland tractors, but I'm all but positive that they use a common sump for the hydrostatic transmission, hydraulics, wet brakes, and front axle (4x4).

You might want to try something rated for cold weather use......such as Kubota's SUPER UDT, or Cenex KwikLift hydraulic fluid. Both are rated for common sump applications and will flow very well to about -40C or F. (Same thing at that low temp.)

Hope this helps.

Joel ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7141 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2014-01-03          188577


Joel nailed it.

Use Kubota Super UDT. I don't think you'll find Cenex in Canada.



Best of luck.


....

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
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2014-01-03          188578


Quote:
Originally Posted by bloggins | view 188570
Whats the best oil absober as my garage floor has a gallon spread out on it?....


There are specialty products out there you can get at auto parts stores to absorb oil spills. But I have used kitty litter with success got a big bag at Sams for very cheap for this purpose also use it to get rid of old latex paint.... ....

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bloggins
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 103 Kingston, Ontario
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2014-01-05          188602


So...I changed the HST/hydraulic oil today and the two associated filters and it runs well once again. However, the hydraulic oil filter (the one on the frame rail) didn't burst but was loose! Somehow after 290 hours it had loosened enough to gush oil. Now the temperature was near record setting low temps and it was due for its 300 hour change. But, from now on the first thing I'll attempt to do is tighten the filter to see if that stops the leak. Interesting is that the replacement filter (I always keep spares on hand) is smaller than the one I replaced. It came from a sealed CNH bag and I cross checked the bag part number and it's the correct one. Maybe I had the cold weather filter on it? It's hard to tell as CNH doesn't mark the parts number on the filters, just a 4 digit alphanumeric code (old one: 4V01, new one: 9X17 (smaller)). ....

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