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tires and weights

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SusanH
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 7 Weaverville, NC
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2008-06-10          154470


I had this idea (that several of you all agreed with) about putting a weight box on the three point hitch instead of filling the tires up with 700 lbs of stuff. It seems to me that when I want to work in the garden, it makes sense to be as light as possible. The dealer is a little horrified because, he says, the front end loader requires those weights or else the front tires and axel gets more load than they are designed for.
It also seems to me that it would take less weight hanging off the back of the PTO than up where the tires are to be a ballast.
The tractor is at the dealership being assembled, and I need to figure it out pretty soon.
I know they can fill tire later if I want that, how hard is it to take the stuff out? Do most people with the CK35 fill tires or not?
Thanks,
Susan


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tires and weights

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2008-06-10          154471


If you'll be driving on a finished lawn being light is an advantage. Some brands insist on loading the tires when a loader is installed. That is probably due to liability issues more than anything else - that way if you don't follow their recommendations and get hurt they can say it was your fault. Weight is weight but you do want to be sure the machine is always ballasted correctly.
....

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tires and weights

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kmgough661
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 10 Aylmer Ontario Canada
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2008-06-10          154477


Hi Susan, I hope that what I have been telling you makes sense for your application. There are liability issues when buying new equipment. That is where you have proven yourself a smart consumer by asking questions and researching the possibilities. I have yet to put up a link to a webpage of my background and work [ coming soon ] however please allow me to point out some facts. The issue you seem to be facing the most is the use of a loader on soft soil. This is a ground pressure or "foot-print" as I have heard it refered to an issue. Weight is weight. Whether it be fluid filled tires, counter-weights on tires or counter-weights on the rear end. The comparisons to be made are tongue- weight when hauling a trailer on your car or truck, or the capacity of a forklift [ which a front end loader essentially becomes ]. Center of gravity and wheel load distribution. There is no magic compromise. Low ground pressure with maximum load lifting capacity means wider tires and a counter-weight system that keeps the center of gravity of the whole system in equalibrium. The best way to achieve this is to keep the CG in between the wheelbase of the unit. I am hoping that an image will appear in the links to show you a solution to your issue that I used to solve a soft soil problem tractor. ....

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tires and weights

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SusanH
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 7 Weaverville, NC
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2008-06-10          154481


Great answer! However, I don't think I explained myself properly... for going into the softer areas I would be taking the loader off entirely (I'm hoping that's not too difficult to do). So it appears to me, that without filling the tires, I could do some plowing with a whole bunch less weight.
On the other hand, is that really practical? A 700 lb. block of cement is going to take up some space on the back when I do use the loader (which would be most of the time). And I assume that if I wanted to do bush-hogging and loader work together, it might be a problem because I don't think my bush-hog (5 foot)weighs that much.
I don't actually do a whole lot of plowing; just when its time to make the garden bigger... I'm interested in keeping my options open, but not to the point of being impractical. ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2008-06-10          154482


SusanH,

My little Kubota weighs considerably less than the Kioti you're looking at. I don't have filled tires, yet I can plow and cultivate my garden with ease, even with turf tires on it (less traction than the other tire types).

I can't pull a huge cultivator, and the little Kubota won't pull a two bottom plow......but I can do both with implements commonly available at Tractor Supply or Northern Tool. Better yet, I can do both without any rear weight on my tractor.......but I couldn't do either without the aid of 4-wheel drive.

You'll be just fine with a small cultivator of about 5 or 6 feet, and you shouldn't have any problems pulling a 2-bottom plow with your Kioti. You won't need any extra weight to do either.....and certainly not for mowing.

Hook up the rear ballast weights (about 300-400 pounds total) onto your 3-point drawbar when using the loader for heavy work, such as when hauling loads of sand, clay, or rock -- or when using the loader for digging holes.

Skip the weighted tires. They're very difficult to repair when they go flat, and they're generally a real pain in the hind quarters.

Joel ....

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kmgough661
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 10 Aylmer Ontario Canada
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2008-06-10          154483


Plowing with the loader attachment off- a non-issue- that is when the tractor really needs to be a tractor. Bush hogging with the loader assembly on is not an issue either- because I am going to assume that the hog attachment has carrier wheels on it that supports the weight of the implement as used. I would surmize from this that you don't have a weight issue at this point. Again I will emphasize that you consider the CG and load distribution when going outside of the bounds of the implements that you intend to use either attached or as re-configured for your use. ....

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tires and weights

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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2168 West of Toronto
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2008-06-11          154487


You can detach/install a loader yourself (if it has quick-connect hydraulic fittings) but it's not as easy as a rear attachment and is much heavier. For "tractor work" like plowing I fill the bucket for the extra front-wheel pull.

Liquid in the rears? I'm not an engineer, but would think that the weight on the front axle wouldn't change. It just adds some down to the rears, which you often need with a loaded bucket, and lowers the C of G, which may save you from tipping when you drive with a raised and loaded bucket. You can remove it yourself, but there may be chemicals added to the water, it makes a mess, and you'd need a compressor to refill with air. Usually liquid goes up to above the top of the rim; why don't you get them filled to the half-way level as a compromise. If you have an easy way of carrying a weight on the hitch, you can still do that to lighten the weight on the front axle. ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5266 South Carolina
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2008-06-11          154491


Do not have a FEL but do run compact tractor even with field work and loader tires with no water in tires. It is 4 wh and have at times had to use that to pull sprayer or trailer. Do run a larger tractor for disking and such with filled tires. Pleased with both set ups.

If the tractor were going to be used totally for pulling on dirt I would fill my tires. If you are going to use a side mounted cutter I would fill my tires.

Without removing the tire from the tractor and getting the valve stem where it would totally drain do not think you can remove all liquid from the tire. Half filled not sure, but they say about 25% filled is a no no for when driving. Have no experience there. If you have air compressor it is possible for you to fill the tires at least with water. Anti freeze can be added if need be. At same time there are tire dealerships that work on tractor tires who will fill them on the tractor at your shop if you have water for a reasonable price. BTW, when you need tire repair, price them coming to you. Here the price difference is well worth it. Esp if you have loaded tires. You need to know if you have tubeless tires or not for repairs reasons also. Tubeless you had possibly plug a nail hole yourself, tube type and you will need help.

Something I did not notice being discussed was wheel weights. Not sure if Kioti offers weighted rims or wheel weights. If they only have the steel rim, you may need the tires filled.

IF and A BIG IF, you will be doing any width changes to your tractor which requires changing the tires around, filled tires are dangerous as the liquid weight of course shifts very quickly.

I agree with Auerbach, makes no sense how it would take load off of the front tires by having rear weight. Also agree with I think it was you that the further back the weight is (3 pth compared to the tires) the greater affect the same pound has for the FEL.

Do you have any idea the weight of what you plan to move will be? I am thinking you were using for clearing a barn. If that is it, just how much does the load weigh? Or will you be also moving a full bucket of wet dirt?

It does not matter the set up you end up weights or no weights, you should keep the FEL low for moving. That way if you happen onto a tip situation it will tip only to where the bucket touches and not turn you and tractor over. Boy as I typed that, the image of some one driving a slope sideways with the bucket raised hit me, dangerous. kt ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2008-06-18          154688


I don't agree that weight is weight. Weight is weight only when describing the curb weight or the total weight. a 700lb. weight box hanging off the back close-in to the rear axle center line will have a totally different effect than, say, a brushhog weighing half that. It's called leverage. I can lift easily 2000lb. at the drawbar hitch with my TC33D---however a 500lb. 5' KingKutter brushhog can sometimes get my front tires off the ground under the right conditions. ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2008-06-19          154692


Susan; Just my two cents worth, If you haven't finalized the deal for the tractor yet check the cost difference between a weight box and a box scraper. A weight box is just that a weight box, but a box scraper is one of the most used three point tools I have plus it takes the place of a weight box for the loader. I've had lots of past experience with fluid in tires for weight on farm tractors and the memories aren't pleasant ones. Iron costs more than fluid, but rusted rims and the mess you will encounter with a tire puncture will make the iron seem cheap. Frank. ....

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kmgough661
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 10 Aylmer Ontario Canada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2008-06-19          154710


weight is weight. Curb weight and balanced load weight are reciprical. Any carried load is incumbent on controlling where the center of gravity is. And the design of the material handling device is governed by that factor. What the application of the user is has to be within that of the designed capabilities. Your observations based on experience are great. However to get back to the fundamentals of the issue is to understand that ALL of us want to know what we can do to maximise the potential of our equipmemnt without spending a ton of money. This forum is great because we can share experience over top of sales hype. ....

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