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Oliver
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 210 Massachusetts
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2007-03-18          140513


The past few weeks have been especially tough as my wife of nearly 10 years has moved out (just at night -- comes home to see and take care of the kids during the day for as long as she is able) and says that our marriage is over and has been for some time. She's battled depression for almost 20 years so I have gotten used to (perhaps immune to) the sense of despair she has talked about for months or even years. All the signs were there but I didn't pay enough, or give the right kind of, attention -- curled up in a ball as soon as I got home, no interest in things that once brought her happiness, saying there is no hope, and even talk of suicide. I feel we're doing all the right things -- seeing a marriage counselor, she is seeing a therapist and has an appointment with a psychiatrist, and her medication was re-evaluated a few days ago. It all helps, and while things seem dark often, I do see hope.

While I do beleive all the therapists and medications are necessary to treat a very real illness, what helps me is tractor time. When I really feel overwhelemd by the situation, a little time moving snow (and fortunately we have plenty right now), whether it's plowing the driveway, making an unecessary path, or just cutting back a snowbank, things get put back into persepctive. Problems can be solved and seemingly impossible tasks can be performed. When I get off the tractor I can look and see what I did and I am reminded that with the right tools, energy, perseverance, and will, problems, even seemingly insumountable ones like the heavy wet snow that covered the driveway two days ago, can be solved.

So I guess now my tractor is a medical expense, hence a right-off -- and tax time is just around the corner!

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
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2007-03-18          140521


Very sorry to hear of your troubles Oliver. I'm the last guy to offer advice about those types of problems, but we'll keep you and your wife in our prayers. There is something very therapeutic about pushing things around on a tractor. I find it relaxing to go out and move around slash after a stressful day. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2007-03-19          140525


Oliver, hey buddy why don't you change your profile preferences to accept personal messages? I'm sure there members out there who have been there and can reach out to you---privately and confidentially. And while trctor therapy is great, depression is nothing to mess with as it touches everyone in the family. We're here for you, man. ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2007-03-19          140526


Oliver; I do know what depression is. I haven't had the loss you have of a family breakup, but business afairs got me down bad a few years ago. If you have a pain in your leg, a problem with your stomach, type symptom you can explain your problem to a doctor. Depression however hits you on your blindside, you never see it coming, till you have it. Explaining your feelings to a doctor is difficult to say the least, because you cannot describe your feelings, that may sound strange, but so true. I just overnight lost all intrest in everything, was scared to leave the house, could'nt stand to see a clock, on and on with strange feelings and fears. In spite of my desire to leave home trying to escape the world, my wife and family put up with a lot of resistance from me and got me help. They took me to several doctors before they found one who did understand my felings and recognized my desparate need for help. He perscribed some medications, gave my family encouragement and proved to be almost a miracle worker for us. It is not a comdition that is cured quickly, it took me nearly a year to get myself back. I take medication to this day, but thank God I got over it. My purpose in all this is to encourage you not to give up on your wife's problem. You will need an unbelievable amount of patience and understanding to handle this, but we did it and with Gods help you can too. We'll keep you in our prayers. Frank. ....

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Oliver
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 210 Massachusetts
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2007-03-19          140527


Thanks all. There are good support systems in place for me, the kids, and my wife -- lots of family and friends nearby really helps. The hardest part is that she really doesn't see that she is not thinking and acting rationally as her mind is clouded with this sickness. Yesterday, for the first time, she said that maybe she is sick. For the most part, though, she says that the problems are not with her but with the marriage, her past (particularly the way her mother treated her 20-30 years ago), and most importantly, everyone who is meddling with her -- if everyone just leaft her alone she would be fine. For example, I called her doctor and told her what was going on -- the doctor was very concerned and wanted to see her first thing the next day. The doctor met with my wife for over an hour, then my wife went to a "nurse psychiatrist" (not sure what the actual title is) who met with her for almost two hours. Both of these people recomended a voluntary, intense, partial hospitalization program (my wife opted out). Yet, I was the bad guy -- if I had not gotten involved, none of this would have happened. She just doesn't see that it was two different trained medical professionsals (in addition to the therapist she sees and the marriage counselor we see together) who were concerned and recomended a course of treatment -- if they had thought she was fine, they would have told her to leave and told me that everything is just fine and we just have relationship issues.

It is hard but I get through it by reminding myself, many times a day, that she is sick and it is the disease talking, not her. If she had cancer or some other illness that required long-term treatment and difficult treatment, I (and others) would be by her side supporting her. Mental illness, unfortunately, has a stigma attached to it, but it is an illness. With time, support, and treatment, I know she will see this, admit that there is a problem, and more actively seek treatment. ....

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yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan
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2007-03-19          140533


Is she bi-polar or have a manic depressive personality? I have friends and acquaintances with each. Being on and having the correct prescriptions at all times is key.

It is hard for those of us to understand this type of illness. I always say that I have a recessive gene that makes me smile all of the time. I'm kinda like the pac-man game from years ago or the energizer battery. I just keep on going no matter what.

You can't talk these types of illnesses away, medication is the only way. It does take allot of comfort and effort on your part to attempt to make her feel better. You're a good man for sticking with her. I've also read that some people drastically rely on sunshine for mental health. If you live in a wooded area with lots of shade that can be adding to the troubles. You may need a sun room or sky lights or a lengthy trip to the sunshine state. The winter months are worse on these types of conditions. My one friend is retired and now spends about 3 months near the Keys to keep him positive. ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5223 South Carolina
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2007-03-19          140534


Oliver, there has been some very good advice given. Until and unless I am willing to admit my sickness it is hard to get help. Prayers of others and their words of encourgament can mean a lot. Realize you are where many others have already travelled. Most make it often with support of others. Sadly some don't. God can and will help if allowed. Will be remembering you, your wife and children. kt
....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2007-03-19          140536


Oliver, I know what you're going through, it's not easy. I went through the same thing a few months back, my wife of 10 years (a second marriage) who had stood by my through thick & thin suddenly went into a depression that caused her to do some terrible things.

The bottom line was we parted ways, although luckily we had no children, so at least there was one small blessing in the mix.

The important part is to make sure it doesn't bring you down, and to be sure that your kids know the truth, and that none of this was as a result of them. Kids are smarter than we give them credit for.

I too know the value of keeping your mind and body busy through this, be sure you don't get too busy for your 'other' friends too, sometimes a cold adult beverage does more good than you might think.

Best of luck.

....

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praha4752
Join Date: Jan 2007
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2007-03-19          140546


Oliver,
your marriage is not over and everything will be OK.

I've been there, I gave hell to my wife, I was going to get divorce for no reason.. any reason I created with my sick mind was a good reason. My wife knew I was ill,so she just suffered and took my abuse hoping that one day I will be OK. Funny part of all that is,that I had NO reason to be depressed. NONE. Period.
And yes, every winter I was on medications, suicidal, mean unbearable./medications HELPED/.
ASA the spring came, more sun , my depression was gone.I was smiling again, no more drugs.
I found out, that a lock of sun, frekvent overcast and bad winter Illinois weather were the MAJOR contributions to my situation.
I just need a sun for my brain to function. Gotta go south.

Maybe your wife is the similar case. Maybe.
She may need a sun.

Joe


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Oliver
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 210 Massachusetts
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2007-03-19          140554


I hope it's just the lack of sun but I doubt it. And no, I won't throw in the towel on the marriage -- it's worth fighting for. It's tough, though, to listen to her rationalize things -- tonight she had (in her mind saying no is not an option) to go to dinner with a friend. Getting ready meant ignoring the kids who just want to spend time with their mother -- and yes, it is hard watching her get all dressed up and look so great (and no, there isn't anyone else, of that I am sure). After she left our daughter kept saying she wants Mommmy and I have to say Mommy's not here...

It is unbelievable how she can put on a happy face and basically fool the world -- something she has done for years. It's only when she is at home that the facade crumbles and the despair sets in.

A good example of her inability to see staright is that she insisted that she is not depressed, she knows what that is like and this isn't it. Not 30 minutes later the doctor who has been looking into her midcations called and told her that she is adding another medication -- so my wife asked me to pick up the prescription. She doesn't see or hear that a doctor is prescribing a second medication to treat depression -- she insists that she is in an unhappy marriage and is not depressede. I hope this new drug will lift enough of the cloud so that she can see she needs help -- and that whatever happens in out marriage can only happen when the cloud of depression is lifted.

But hey, there is a little snow falling again, so I'll have more "therapy" later tonight or in the morning! Maybe I'll go put the chains on just in case... ....

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6885 Waterville New York
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2007-03-20          140556


I know several people that when the winter hits with short days and no sun that have difficulty. It is hard for them to want to go out and they actually go into hibernation with body and mind and don't come out till spring. It is tough on their freinds and family as they are snippy and much the same as you've described. one of them had divorce papers filed for four straight years in January. Wish you luck! ....

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yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan
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2007-03-20          140563


Many people with bi-polar are normal at work and when away from home but act differently in familiar surroundings. Do you sit in with her at the Doctor's appointments? ....

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Oliver
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 210 Massachusetts
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2007-03-20          140566


I don't sit in on all the docotors appointments and I don't talk to her therapist. I did speak with her primary care physician and was concerned because she did not know the extent of what was going on -- but does now. One thing that I find is how little the different doctors communicate with each other -- and when they do it feels rushed (at least to me). I am an educator, and what I am used to is when a student is in trouble we have team meetings with parents, teachers, the advisor, administration -- and anyone else who is working with the child. This way we are all hearing the same message and are all on board as to the steps that are required to help the child. My experience is that medicine does not always work in the same way -- sometimes it does, but not always. ....

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praha4752
Join Date: Jan 2007
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2007-03-20          140574


Oliver,

I feel for you. I know you'd need a tons of snow...........
Why is doctor prescribing several medications? One should be enough! The right one.
Look into it. Also the Internet is a great source of info's.But you most likely know everything about it by now.
Well, my wife was on the net often.It helped her to deal with me.
But I wanted get better, I worked on myself, when I was able to be with my senses. When I was on drugs I wes fine...no problem guy, BUT I did not want to take pills for a long time. I am fine I insisted.

Good luck.

Joe
....

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Oliver
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 210 Massachusetts
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2007-03-20          140576


The power of the Internet -- my best, non-medical guess, is that she suffers from a condition called borderline personality disorder. This explains a lot to me -- ongoing battle with bulimia, excessive spending, feelings of being worthless, extreme anger and depression -- but is also the "life of the party". The more I learn the more it fits -- but we'll see what the doctors say. ....

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Iowafun
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 955 Central Iowa
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2007-03-21          140604


I've been watching this thread a couple of days. I don't really have anything of importance to add except I feel for you and your kids. As hard as it is on you, your kids are probably taking it hard. I don't know what the age of your kids, but have you looked into having them see a counselor to help them through the situation? Help them understand that Mommy is ill and her behavior is not due to anything the kids have done.

It's just a thought. Tractor therapy is great and I miss that therapy terribly with my move. I suspect I'm dealing with some form of depression over it but nothing like what you are dealing with.

I wish you the best and I hope things improve for you. ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
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2007-03-21          140614


Oliver, you would do wise to take a list of all medications and be sure they don't fight each other. Also be sure each doctor is aware of all of her medications so they don't over prescribe. Some people play the doctor rounds to get the medications for the effects they want. As to doctors working together, sadly they often do not. You would do well to find one who is willing to take control of the situation and tell the others all must be cleared by me. As Iowa said, be sure the children understand where the problem is and be sure there are not given the impression they will grow up to be the same. kt ....

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Oliver
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 210 Massachusetts
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2007-03-21          140622


Probably going to see a psychiatrist next week. It's interesting -- I also learned she has accumulated significant credit card debt (not sure if I mentioned this) which she says she wants to deal with. Yet today, off she goes with one of the kids and spend a ton of money onstuff we don't need. It's sad, because I see her get angry with herself for doing this, but she doesn't seem to be able to stop. And the kids are 2, almost 4, and almost 6. The oldest just wants to know why she can't stay here, the middle climbs all over her when she is here but doesn't ask for her when she isn't, and the third is fine until bedtime when she just wants her mommy...

I've gotten over the need to put a label on my wife's condidtion. Instead, I want to make sure that the diagnosis and subsequent treatment are right. ....

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Iowafun
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2007-03-22          140638


Like some of the behavior, the shopping is probably a compulsion or an effect of the illness. For many people, shopping makes them feel better/happy with immediate gratification. The drawback is in the long run they are angry with themselves for doing it and causing the debt. I've known more than one person that used shopping and wine to make themselves feel better. It was only good for addressing the immediate bad feelings but made things worse in the long run.

Hang in there and make sure you are a rock for your kids. But don't forget to take care of yourself. ....

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praha4752
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2007-04-04          141036



terrible situation, I'd cancell all credit cards, I know easy to say, in my case I have all in my name...
I feel sorry for both of you, Oliver......help will have to be fast.

Joe ....

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jb5050
Join Date: Apr 2007
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2007-04-05          141038


Well O, life sometimes hands us tough problems. Like they say if you have lemons, make lemonade.
You should feel lucky that 1. you have a way to escape the mind burden you have. 2. your wife is still with you. and I believe most important the fact that you awake each day and should look forward to the sunshine, snow, rain, whatever it brings. Just think of all the folks that cannot do that for various reasons.
When I get to feeling bad I look around and thank my lucky stars that I have this day to enjoy. You will never have this day again, ever. This helps me, hope it helps you.
Luck to you and here is hoping your wife recovers some of the personality she had when you met her.
....

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jb5050
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2007-04-05          141039


About 3 weeks have gone by since you wrote about your wife, how are things going now? ....

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Oliver
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 210 Massachusetts
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2007-04-05          141047


Well, she has moved back into the house into the guest room. We are working on lots of issues and often it feels like a step forward results in two steps backwards. In the same sentence she will talk about divorce -- and vacationing together this summer. She is slowly starting to face things, but is still looking for a quiick and easy solution to some very complicated issues -- and tends to "run away" (literally and figuratively) when things get tough. ....

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jb5050
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 18 spokane, wa
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2007-04-05          141048


A lot of folks run away when things get tough. Your the stable person and thus ALL the responsibility for the children now falls on you. Stay stable, spend time with the kids, get or keep involved with them. Go to PTA, set the best example you can.
I do not know if it helps but I had a rougher than normal growing up and remember I had one parent I could count on and one I could not. I raised 3 daughters to adults without pregnacy, drug use, well maybe a little, all got through school and no one went to jail or ran away. You may find this weird but listen to Dr. Laura on the radio when your driving. Not that she is great but you will see your not alone. I have heard this story many times on her show.
No easy cure, but a lot of us out here care, you are not alone.
Keep me, us, posted. Sounds like the sun came out, partly.
Oh yeah, on the daughters I raised? I now have 4 strapping grandsons. The oldest drives. I would be lost without "The Boys" ....

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Oliver
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 210 Massachusetts
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2007-04-05          141051


Do I want to raise three children by myself? No. But of course I will...

....

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jb5050
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2007-04-05          141061


That question, as an educator, I think does not need an answer. Yes you will, if you do not who will? They will be your solice and refuge if you have the sense to let it happen. My brother "hated" kids, he never had any through 3 wifes. He is back with his 3rd and is foster caring one from his 2nd. Makes her mad as hell, I think it is just deserts if you will. He made a great dad, you would never have known it had you known him before. Kid is happy, brother is happy, now lets get Big O happy, what do you say? C'm man, you can do it, might even like it. What do you have to lose? JB ....

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Oliver
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2007-04-05          141065


Don't get me wrong I am anything but an absentee father -- I'm up with the kids first thing in the morning getting them ready for school, bring them to school, make dinner when I get home, put them to bed -- and I wouldn't change it for anything. Still, though, right now my wife is here (sort of). The thought of her not being here is tough -- no matter what I love her.

....

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jb5050
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2007-04-06          141088


O, re-read the above answer I sent you, things will work out, maybe not as fast or the exact way you want them to, but they will work out. Usually for the best, in my life things that did not go the way I wanted them to usually turned out better in the long run. It hurts in the gut now, but when it is time for hind sight it will look a lot better. Think about what I just said, look back and see if I am not telling you true. Good luck to you, give it some time and maybe spray the fields to make them grow, or tell me what to use on a lawn planted last summer, now green but needs help with some weeds that came it. What would I spray first, make it grow stuff or weed killer? Then how long would I wait before spraying again? Have about 2.5 acres in new grass. ....

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Oliver
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2007-04-06          141095


I do hope that things will work out in the end -- and I know they will but I don't know what the future looks like. Right now, for lack of a better term, I am broken. I hurt. But I know that I can and will get through this... ....

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