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Use of brakes on hydro

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AnnBrush
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 462 Troy OH
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2006-11-04          136585


Was reading a post on the Oliver board and got to thinking, I never use my brakes on my JD 4300 hydro, just back off the forward or reverse pedal. Do any of you hydro operators out there use the brakes on yours, if so why?

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Use of brakes on hydro

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Iowafun
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 955 Central Iowa
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2006-11-04          136586


The vast majority of time on the 4310 I don't use the brakes. But I use them as insurance when I'm moving up into the loader, or moving close to a dumpster to dump a bucket load, or if I'm crawling forward for a good reason. Or if I'm maneuvering in a tight spot, I use it for insurance to make sure something just doesn't happen.

Other than the parking brake when warming up or installing an attachment, I don't use the brakes. The hydro pedals work great so I don't have need of the brakes. But I sure do like having them. ....

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Use of brakes on hydro

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ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 762 Kingston, NY
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2006-11-04          136587


I use the brakes on my 4310 whenever I am on any sort of incline because my 4310 creeps a little. It creeps less if I am in "A" range but usually I am operating in the middle "B" range. Usually the creep is small enough that it could be tolerated, but I don't like to see a tractor moving when no one is in the seat. ....

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Use of brakes on hydro

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2006-11-04          136590


Does using a cutting brake count? I use the right one with the cruise control on when brushhogging---spins right around. Or I use it without cruise control when I've gotten stuck usually in road-shoulder mud or found (okay, gotten) myself sidehilled in a ditch. Also found it handy with Super Steer when I was moving FEMA trailers around using the front end to point-and-shoot. I think the only time I used the brakes---along with the hydro pedal-- was when I wasn't sure if I was going to be able to stop AND negotiate a turn towing a full 15,000 lb. dump trailer. I'm not a stuntman, but I play one on TP (pun intended). ....

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Use of brakes on hydro

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2006-11-04          136591


I use the brakes frequently when maneuvering in tight spots between trees, when operating on hills, and on the rare occasion when turning brakes are needed to pull a really tight turn. ....

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Use of brakes on hydro

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2006-11-04          136606


A creeping hydro is an accident waiting to happen. ....

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Use of brakes on hydro

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ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 762 Kingston, NY
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2006-11-04          136607


Geez Art, spare me the suspense! What will be the fate of my creeping 4310? ....

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____________________________________________________________________________________
Use of brakes on hydro

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2006-11-04          136608


Which brings up a question. How well do your hydros hold on hills? Sometimes I have to set the parking brake and chock the wheels on maybe a 30 degree grade, which makes it a two-person operation. The hydro alone will only hold up to maybe 10 degrees. ....

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Use of brakes on hydro

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ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 762 Kingston, NY
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2006-11-04          136609


Ken, I might clarify that the 4310 does not creep if there is no slope. But I always have to use brakes on any reasonable incline. It might only creep about 1-2 inches every minute but its enough to make you feel uncomfortable if you don't use the brakes. I don't operate on slopes steep enough that I feel the need to use chocks. ....

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Use of brakes on hydro

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2006-11-05          136612


My 4310 is a 12/12 reverser transmission. The gear transmission must be in neutral and the bracke locked when you get of the seat or the engine stops. It's been a while since I've driven a Deere hydro so refresh me. As I read the posts you can get off the tractor with the engine running, range lever(ABC) still in gear and the brake not locked? If you shut the engine off while the tractor is on a slope does the lack of having the hydro act as sort of a parking brake allow the tractor to coast away if the brake isn't set? Just seems to me that a safety interlock wouldn't let you off the seat with the engine running and the gear transmission still in gear. Just curious. Frank. ....

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Use of brakes on hydro

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ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 762 Kingston, NY
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2006-11-05          136613


Frank, yes I can get off the tractor while its running and the range selector is in gear and brake not locked. I can also start it while not in the seat and standing next to it on the ground. However, foward and reverse pedals are disabled if I lift off the seat. Also if the pto is engaged and I lift off the seat then it will shut off.

Not sure about whether it will coast when shut off and on a slope since whenever I do this I usually drop the bucket and set the brake. But I will check it out. ....

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Use of brakes on hydro

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2006-11-05          136614


hardwwod: You make a good distinction; are we off the tractor while it's running and the parking brake isn't set(which is the same as the service brakes)? My blue's seat interlock and parking brake interlock stopped working on their own long ago, so yes, I can get off mine while running on a slope or not--for mine it's a matter where exactly the hydro pedal is: a little forward or backward to put a little pressure on the system, sort of like going up hill in an automatic trans at a stop light and giving it a little gas to hold it there without using the brakes.

As far as holding there with the engine off, no typically they will not hold there due to lea-down around the individual pistons both in the pump and the motor which are about the size of your litle finger.

However, 2005 NH skid steer is a hydrostatic in the purest sense in that the motors are semi-directly connected to the drive wheels and not through a gear transmission. The skid steers prior to this one used to creep whether running or off on a incline if the parking brake wasn't set. My model has a "spring-activated / hydraulically released" parking brake that uses a disc brake on each drive motor. It sets automatically when you shut of the engine or get out of the seat. To deavivate just get i and hit a release button. Oh yeah, and the hydraulic functions to the loader are also locked out while the brakes are on.

My sense it's only a matter time until you see these type of systems on tractors. The law refers to it as state-of- the-art that if a mfg. has a safety system on one line or product and they all don't have it, or you as a competing mfg. don't have it on your products (to some degree or in principle) you are setting yourself up for a product liability and/or personal injury lawsuit. ....

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Use of brakes on hydro

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2006-11-06          136646


Ag tractors have had hydro's since the 60's and were discontinued in the 80's with some success. They were only two range with speeds to about 7 mph in low and a high range that made them the road king with tops possibly close to 30! Today there are some multi range variable speed transmissions that have come here from Europe. With todays fuel prices it is hard to justify much more in speed flexibility then an 18 speed. The true hydro's simular in drive to the skid steer are used in harvesting machines like self propelled mowers to maximize efficiency of the machine for the harvest. There are machines that only use a single common drive with a steering axle like combines and forage harvesters. ....

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Use of brakes on hydro

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2006-11-07          136651


My Uncle bought a new Farmall 656 Hydro and I bought a new 656 gear drive about the same time, both were gasoline tractors. Gas was cheap so nobody got real excited about fuel economy, I don't remember how much more but the hydro took quite a bit more fuel to pull the same load as my gear drive. We used the hydro on the baler and he had an IH 234 mounted corn picker for it, it was great on either use being able to get just the speed you needed. I still have my 656, it was my main tractor for several seasons then got used mostly for grinder/mixer and manurer spreader duty. It has a fresh engine now I think this wsa the third overhaul, it has had a clutch or two, water pump, etc. but still original TA and tranny. It ran all last week on grain auger duty. Bought it and a new Krause 13 ft. wheel disc in late 1965 for 5600.00 outright. Frank. ....

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Use of brakes on hydro

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Iowafun
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 955 Central Iowa
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2006-11-07          136696


I'm lucky enough that my 4310 hydro is new enough that it doesn't creep on me on a hill, yet. Given time, I expect the hydraulics to start to leak down a bit. But if I stop on a hill I use the brakes to take the load off the hydraulics. I also make sure to release the pressure on the hydraulics when I am shut down. ....

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Use of brakes on hydro

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2006-11-07          136707


Frank, we have a 656 gas that has the two point hitch with a narrow front end, the boys really appreciate it as a yard tractor although a hydro would be appreciated. The hydro on the pto we found was good for about 10 percent for efficiency, just as much as it might prove a handicap on the gear drive for ground engaging tillage. Like all things that might get used for something that they are not designed for they don't perform as well. ....

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