Go BottomBobcat Corporation Sold to a Korean firm
 | candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1932 North Dakota 
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2007-07-31 144204
Dear friends,
For those of you here who may own a Bobcat skid steer tractor, I have some very important news.
Bobcat announced today, July 30, 2007, that it has been sold to the Korean firm, Doosan Infracore.
Ingersol Rand, Bobcat's parent company, has decided to sell off the entire Bobcat tractor line as well as the attachments division to Doosan Infracore. The deal was reported to be worth 4.9 Billion Dollars.
Bobcat has a large manufacturing facility here in North Dakota, where some 2600 jobs are involved. Needless to say, this sale has drawn the interest of North Dakota's two U.S. Senators, Byron Dorgan and Kent Conrad. These two U.S. Senators will be meeting with the representatives from Doosan Infracore in the very near future, in an effort to ensure that these manufacturing jobs will not be lost.
There is no guarantee that Bobcat tractors and the associated implements will continue to be made in the U.S.
I'll keep you posted on any news I hear in the future.
Joel
Link: Bobcat sold to Doosan Infracore--Korea -- $4.9 Billion
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 | Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York 
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2007-07-31 144206
Often it takes years to see a difference. I think that they will use it to their advantage for a US presence. ....
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 | earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2007-07-31 144218
Sorry to say, but this needs to be a wake up call for the quality of work of those American workers--up and down the employment chain. I have friends who bought new 250S's and had nothing but problems with them. My New Holland has the same sort of issues. It used to be just the automotive sector that had quality issues with products until the Asians got involved. It's a global community like it or lump it. ....
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 | kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2007-07-31 144219
Worked for a heavy equipment mfg for a few years who is out of business. Some of the quality issues are not with the worker, rather higher up the chain. The quality of the material and design is beyond the line workers control. Our product line was rated at one time number one world wide, then the top person decided the company's funds were for his use along with some dumb product decisions. kt ....
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| candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2007-07-31 144220
Kthompson,
I once worked for a company that produced the Grouser tracks for the Bobcat tractors. Several times, we were threatened with the loss of the contract, unless we could get our prices down.
In the end, we were making 8 cents per track link. Finally, the end came. Grouser tracks, as far as I know, are now being made in some other country.
I miss working in the foundry. There were two of us on the furnaces, pouring high ductile iron. It was the best job I ever had, mainly because I hate office work even worse than cats.......and that's saying something. hehehe.
Joel ....
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 | yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan
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2007-07-31 144221
Since there is no National pride nor loyalty, any job can be perceived as being done cheaper than you or I are willing to do it for. It is only a matter of time until all our jobs are gone. Don't know who is then going to pay the way for those on the "System". ....
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 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2007-07-31 144222
Unfortunately the whole mess is the best evidence of the "me first" attitude that is so prevalent in todays society.
People like to squawk about losing jobs to 'foriegners' then sit down on their (made in China) lawn chair, and pass comment on how their (made in Mexico) shirt is coming apart at the seam and they should take it back to Wally World because they paid good money for it after all!!! But since the price of gas is so high and even their (made in Korea) little import car is expensive to drive so they will maybe fix it themselves.
Sad but true.
Best of luck. ....
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| kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2007-07-31 144224
The problem is more prevlant than this. The ability to think for the most part has been lost. Price is something easy to compare and when people are not able to or choose not to understand a product or service then they just decide on price. The concept of quality is lost in that decision and then lower price wins. Quality is traded off for the lower price that can be understood and the cycle goes on.
Clark Howard a well known radio person who helps people not to get "ripped off" tells he is very willing to trade quality for lower price. That concept is very common. If a person buys today on other than price it is normal or that is cute or such in looks. I do very much realize higher price does not mean higher quality. But I do realize what CHEAP is and it is costly. kt ....
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 | Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma 
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2007-07-31 144226
Just think of all the little stuff the average American worker takes for granted. Most companies pay sick leave, family leave, emergency leave, maternity leave and who knows what other kind of paid leave. Put that with the 4, 6 and 8 weeks paid vacation that everyone thinks they deserve. Then there's the employer's part of medical insurance and don't forget their part of Social Security taxes. Oh and theirs the company retirement plan. Everything adds up and it does it in a hurry. Take someone making 20 bucks an hour, it wouldn't surprise me that after adding all the benefits, it jumps up to around 40.
If one wants to know why the big 3 auto makers are in trouble today, it's because of all the crazy benefits they offered through the years. Take GM for instance. GM has 332000 hourly retirees drawing a damn good check every month.
Then the average worker wants cheap shit from anywhere they can get it. Well, my friends, they are getting it now and bitching because it's cheap shit and their kids/grand kids ain't gonna have a job.
I wonder how that happened? ....
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| candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2007-07-31 144231
Billy,
Many years ago, under the command of General MacArthur, the U.S. sent one of our best scientists to Japan, in an effort to help rebuild that nation. IT WORKED!
Dr. Demming is generally credited for the excellent products being produced in Japan. We first started feeling the effects of Demming's efforts in the early 1970s, when Datsun, Toyota, and Honda started making big dents in the market share.
Dr. Demming tried to teach his system of management to the U.S. corporate leaders, but he was brushed off, like lint. It's now some 60 years later, yet Dr. Demming's system of management and production controls are still being shunned by American corporate managers.
Joel ....
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| kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2007-07-31 144236
candoarms, it not a big reason is the attitude in US companies the plant is lower life form than the true managment? While it is my understanding the Japanese promote from through the plant itself? ....
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| candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2007-07-31 144238
Kthompson,
The biggest problem with U.S. corporations is the attitude that our corporate managers have maintained since the early 1930s.
At one time, the U.S. produced more goods than any other country on earth. Not all of those products were good.....but we made more of them than anybody else. Our corporate managers didn't pay much attention to the quality of their products, because they didn't need to. The profits were rolling in, which is all they really cared about.
Well, when the foreign competitors started eating into their share of the market, they blamed the Japanese. When the Japanese firms started showing large profits, our corporate managers blamed the American worker for his lack of production, laziness, incompetence, etc.
Dr. Demming proved to us that the incompetence responsible for the demise of the American corporation was sitting at the CEO's conference table, eating donuts, and drawing pie charts.
The son-in-law of the corporate manager will always have a job in corporate America. His position is not held on merit, productivity, or even due to profit. His position is secure, only due to the incompetence of the American corporate structure......which hasn't changed since the days of Al Capone. And though our corporations are bad....our government is even worse.
Joel ....
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| Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma
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2007-07-31 144240
OK. so back to your original post. We'll leave GM out this time and put in Bobcat. Why would they (Doosan Infracore) even think about moving their plant to a Korean plant?
By the way, if every manufacturer followed Dr Deming's advice we wouldn't be buying throw away stuff. ....
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| earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2007-07-31 144243
My professional work experience is much like it was as a teenager bussing dishes: the more work the less the pay. That said, I saw "executives" middle manglers...er...managers who were getting perks for simply beating us employees up to get more "production" from us. All the while claiming "we don't have any money" (I did the cost estimating for the work I produced--$450,000 worth of work cost them $75,000---not a bad return on investment---and I was only one of many departments) Bottom line...was, well, bottom-line... at any cost to morale so long as management got their bonus. I remember one mangler boasting after a big layoff that he will now get $800 bonus. I was there 10 years. There were 3500 employees and 30 facilities world-wide. As of just a few weeks ago, they closed the doors for good. ....
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| earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2007-07-31 144244
My professional work experience is much like it was as a teenager bussing dishes: the more work the less the pay. That said, I saw "executives" middle manglers...er...managers who were getting perks for simply beating us employees up to get more "production" from us. All the while claiming "we don't have any money" (I did the cost estimating for the work I produced--$450,000 worth of work cost them $75,000---not a bad return on investment---and I was only one of many departments) Bottom line...was, well, bottom-line... at any cost to morale so long as management got their bonus. I remember one mangler boasting after a big layoff that he will now get $800 bonus. I was there 10 years. There were 3500 employees and 30 facilities world-wide. As of just a few weeks ago, they closed the doors for good. ....
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| kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2007-08-01 144249
Billy, sometimes one company buys another to use their current capacity more efficiency. The labor cost is lower in Korea than the US. It is also possible they purchased Bobcat partly for their operation (plants and dealer networks) and of course market share in North America. It can cost less to buy a currently accepted name than to establish one from scratch when all is considered.
A few years ago a large company purchased a small local manufacturer of rotary cutters, trailers and sprayers along with some other items. The reason given was their patents. It was not long before the old name was replaced with the new name; plant here all but closed and so forth. It was not long either before the larger company realized we may own the patents but this is not us as the small company’s name disappeared so did the market share. About 3 years after the small company was bought the large company sold it back to the same family they had purchased it from.
You see a lot of this in the insurance industry. I remember about 18 years ago hearing in a large meeting how there were about 1800 or so insurance companies at that time and within 10 years there would be only about 500. The time table was off but it is happening very much. In the insurance industry there are certain people if hired as CEO you know their only mission is to get the company looking good to be sold. It is not just small or young companies who are sold and their name lost either but companies that are 50, 75 and yes a 100 years old. ....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2007-08-01 144253
I was lucky enough to have spent some of the time I was in the service in Korea. I had a bit of free time and was able to talk and work with the people. It was interesting that they had a lot of drive from the birth of a child to educate them from the start. Not waiting until they start school and leaving the teachers held hostage for even potty training which is about whats happening in pre school. They take tests around the 8th grade and that is about the only chance they have to get into college. Many are shuttled into learning a trade at that point as they did not test well enough and for the few that do they go onto college.
This countries socialistic values of our one time greatness are leading us down a losers road as you can't bring everyone along and keep up with the chosen few!!!!
There is a place for everyone! That doesn't mean we are all equal in abilities but we all do have some good to develop on. Well most all. With the leaders in politics listening to every interest group with some money and a voice we are in trouble. Not everyone can afford to buy their way into politics as it is today. Unfortunately many of those that have gotten there are living on someone elses money and have no damn idea how hard someone had to work for it!
Many school teachers have to spend to much time on to few just for discipline reasons they don't have the time to give to those that can go on!
I kind of look at it as an eagle trying to soar but not being able to get past the flock of turkey's overhead!
We don't have the time to bring everyone along and stay competitive when no one else is!
Let's get back to the basics, if you don't want to contribute, go hungry, walk, and live for what you can give! Nothing to give, then don't expect it in return.
I'm all done! Who started this anyway! ....
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| candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2007-08-01 144257
Art White,
Two thumbs up, Sir. I applaud you for taking the time to write that very important letter.
Joel
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| kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2007-08-01 144261
Art, there is room for one more Presidential Candidate from New York. Could be room for a Senator or two also. ....
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 | AnnBrush
Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 463 Troy OH 
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2007-08-01 144277
In this post I haven't yet seen the single biggest reason we continue to need foreign firms to buy US companies and US treasuries. We spend more than we make - at all levels - government and private. We have to get the money from somewhere - so we borrow it, every day billions of dollars - foreigners buying US treasuries and direct foreign investment pay for most of the difference. Lord knows how much of the US government the Chinese own (trillions of US IOU's in the from of US securities) - all needed to pay for that widget and a million other things we needn't have bought ....
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| earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2007-08-02 144299
Ann: "In this post I haven't yet seen the single biggest reason we continue to need foreign firms to buy US companies and US treasuries."
Maybe I missed it, but was that a rhetorical comment? I mean IMHO, we don't "need" foreigners to buy our companies. However, I think if you look at what really drives sales of publically-held businesses, it is the shareholder that drive it all in the name of profit. And sure the execs have a lot to benefit from the sale too.
I live outside Detroit. It's nearly all automotive-driven here (pun intended). I get sick to my stomach when I hear on the nitely local news that the Big 3 are laying off AGAIN to improve shareholders' profit. That means yet another well-paying job evaporating that I won't be able to do work for.
Eight years ago I worked in the automotive engineering field for about 10 years. I can tell you there is a big connection to reduced quality with higher profits. Quality does suffer. The privately-held company I worked for was a supplier to many foreign auto companies and the Big 3. The Big 3 were/are pain in the asses when it came to making a product for them. First off they demand to see your "books", then they literally dictate to you what your profit margin will be. Then they come back the following year and tell you that you WILL make a reduction in cost even though they know you are hardly making it as it is. Then, they use "OPM" (Other People's Money") and don't want to pay for at least 120 days and as much as 6 and 9 months. Suppliers aren't banks to float them a loan while they pay big dividends and bonuses. I have seen products that were designed right at the beginning and produced right get pared down to the point they are useless because "bean counters" demanded any all profit be squeezed out. And I have seen some smaller shops literally tell one of the Big 3 to go f%$#! themselves when it came time to audit their books for another round of cost cutting. The owner shut his business down.
And the cost-cutting trickles down to the ranks too. I was told I had to take a 10-15% pay cut. SO I told my boss to go to hell (AND I got a raise not too long after that too!). Why? Because I was not only doing the work but did the cost quoting, so I knew what the profit was.
It's way too easy for Corporate America to tell the guy in the trenches --the "cash cow" if you will, to take a pay cut AND improve quality AND production all in the name of saving the company money, while the fat cats (managers, executives, and the like) get to keep the status quo of bonuses, perks and the like. I'm talking equity. ....
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 | bvance
Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 280 The Great Pacific NorthWet, Olympia, WA
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2007-08-10 144580
"Dr. Demming's system of management and production controls are still being shunned by American corporate managers."
At the risk of creating a firestorm here, I would restate the above sentence in this manner:
"Dr. Demming's system of management and production controls are still being shunned by American Unions."
The Union's very existence is predicated on inefficiencies to create or sustain more jobs without any concerns to creating more efficiencies that in reality will cut jobs.
At the same time, American management has much blame as well for managing to shareholders demands at the expense of good, long range planning and management.
The other problem of American business is a "defined benefits" retirement program vs. a "defined contributions" program. The operative words here are contribution vs. benefit. In the former, the employer is responsible for predetermined benefits at a predetermined time. The later, the employer is responsible only for a portion of the defined contribution to retirement and the future benefits remain undefined. In a defined benefit scenario, management mortgaged their future without figuring out or knowing how they were going to pay the benefits they promised....and typically in response to Union demands, I must add.
The bottom line: Both management and the Unions are responsible for a declining manufacturing base....likely never to be salvaged. ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2007-08-10 144582
Well, since we're throwing a little gasoline on the fire already.....
IMHO a union is no different than any other monopoly, including the goobermint itself, it has nothing to compete with, so there is no need to be competitive. Since it is a monopoly it also has little fear of obsolescence.
A number of years back a union organizer approached my workers on a large jobsite. They nearly laughed him back into his truck.
The foreman on that job, one of my longest serving employees, told him they already make more money than union scale wages and have no desire to fund a fat guy in a shiny truck driving around stirring up trouble!
The union tried to organize an 'information picket' on the jobsite, my employees went out to the entrance and told all the union workers about how much they got paid, and how well they get treated. The union guys went home, seems they were unemployed union workers who were instructed to show up or else.
A few asked if I was hiring before they left.
I also got black-listed when I bought the remains of a former (unionized) competitor of mine. I had been negotiating with the owner, but the union refused any concessions or to allow the company to de-unionize. I merely had the former owner bankrupt the company and bought everything from the trustee in bankruptcy, less the union.
Best of luck. ....
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 | leejohn
Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 71 Doniphan, Missouri
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2007-08-11 144614
Murf i'm like you. If you treat people right you sure can get alot done with min. of people. It doesn't always have to be with money, just a pat on the back, a good job you guys, or how's the wife and kids doing. Things like that go along way. I bet you don't have guys working harder too not work, then getting in there and getting the job done.
Good luck to you, lee ....
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| candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2008-01-03 149850
I just received the spec sheet and quote in the mail from the Dealer in Grand Forks, North Dakota.
Bobcat
Model CT230
Compact Utility Tractor
Fuel Capacity = 7.9 gallons
Engine =
3 cylinder Diesel,
Tier II,
30 horsepower gross,
91.5 ci.
Rear PTO =
22hp,
Cat 1,
hydraulic position control system,
1764 lbs lift 24" behind the lift points,
540 rpm,
Live,
Mid PTO (optional) 2000 rpm
Total hydraulic pump capacity =
12.2 gallons per minute
Implement 7.9 gallons per minute
Steering 4.3 gallons per minute
Rear Hydraulics (optional) single or dual outlets
Telescopic stabilizers (standard)
Lower Links (telescopic)
Lifting rod (crank)
Drive System =
Transmission Hydrostatic
Speed Ranges 3
Brakes Wet Disc
Rear Differential Lock (standard)
4-wheel drive (standard)
Travel Speeds =
Low 0-3.3 mph
Med 0-6.4 mph
High 0-13.1 mph
Reverse 0-8.7 mph
Dimensions =
Ground clearance 13.8 inches
Operating weight 3055 pounds
Height (ROPS up) 96.8 inches (foldable ROPS standard)
Other features
Power steering
Suspension seat
Tilt wheel
cruise control
cup holder
tool box
Spark arrestor muffler
Horn, hazard and flasher lights
Neutral start interlock safety system
Loader 7TL
Lift capacity unknown at this time.
Bucket widths 54, 60, and 68 inches
Max lift height = 85 inches
Hood and side panels are made of steel.......not plastic.
Backhoe available = Model 6TB with 77" digging depth.
9, 12, 16, and 18" buckets available.
PRICING
CT230 Compact Tractor (Part number M1204) = $16,072
Deluxe factory installed Level Package = $1000.00
GP Tires 25x8.5-14, 6PR (Front)15-19.5, 6PR (Rear) $100.00
Deluxe Fully Adjustable Suspension Seat $200.00
7TL Front End Loader = $3538.00
Total = $20,910
Discount = $1022.00
Discounted Total (prior to sales taxes) = $19,888
Other specs available upon request....such as length, width, etc.
Backhoe pricing was not requested.
Joel ....
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| candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2008-01-03 149851
I don't why I didn't post the warranty information, but I guess it's not too late.
Warranty info.
24 months or 2000 hours full warranty.
36 months or 2000 hours on driveline.
No information available on the cost or availability of extended warranty coverages.
Joel ....
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| candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2008-01-03 149852
Photo of the new Bobcat CT230 Compact Utility Tractor.
Pictures of this and other new Bobcat models are available at the link below.
Joel
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Link: Bobcar Utility Tractors
Picture Link
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| candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2008-01-03 149853
Here's the new CT225 25hp model.
Joel
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| candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2008-01-03 149854
And the new CT120 21hp model
Joel ....
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| kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2008-01-04 149870
In the sale of Bobcat not sure it was picked up or not but they sold the IR brand to Volvo. Not sure they sold all of the IR brand but think they did. kt ....
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 | kleinchris
Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 269 Westminster, Texas
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2008-02-15 151381
I finally got out to take a look at these new tractors today. Got a quote for the 25 HP model, with FEL for $16,700. The tractor itself didn't look to be anything special- but it didn't look cheap either. I will give Bobcat credit for making good equipment- the saleman kept trying to mention Bobcats excellent warranties compared to other makers. I finally had to stop him and tell him that I have a Bobcat skid steer that is going on 200 hours and never once have I needed the warranty! (I think I do some pretty stupid stuff with mine, too.)
Anyways, all things considered, I was expecting this machine to be about $18- $19 K. Refreshing. They probably cant charge too much more or people would just but a skid steer! ....
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 | beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2008-02-20 151496
The Bobcat Tractors are KIOTI's with the Bobcat Paint Scheme. Bobcat and Daedong (KIOTI) have a marketing agreeement for compact tractors. Daedong (KIOTI) is supplying Bobcat with the compact tractors. Visit any KIOTI dealer and you will see we have the exact same tractors, same specs, with the original KIOTI color scheme, and the KIOTI 4 year powertrain warranty.
The 30hp tractor you speced is a KIOTI CK30 HST.
The 22hp tractor is the new KIOTI CK20S.
As of right now, Daedong is only supplying Bobcat with the HST models up to 40hp. Our guess is that they may get the full line eventually.
Regardless of color, they are great tractors!! ....
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| kleinchris
Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 269 Westminster, Texas
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2008-02-22 151607
beagle
funny you should mention that, because... my local Bobcat dealer is also a Kioti dealer. I asked the saleman if they were made by the same company since I thought it was to coincidental that everything on this lot now had roots in Korea. Anyways, he said no. I didnt have enough info to argue with him. But, it could have been an honest mistake because the tractors hadnt been on the lot long enough for the saleguys to know much about them. ....
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 | EMERICHSALES
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 75 187 Valentine Road, Charlton/Ballston Lake, NY 12019
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2008-03-01 151821
Wait till Kubota introduces their New Skid Steer next year. Should give BobCat some major competition. BobCat has been known for reliability while using Kubota engines.
Emerich Sales & Service inc.
www.emerichsales.com
....
Link:
Click Here
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