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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > SUV and Trucks Forum

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 10-13-2003, 12:59 Post: 66144
AC5ZO

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The WSJ had a small article today about SUV safety. With all the televised stuff about SUV roll-over, you would think that you are riding around on a can of gasoline with a lit match just waiting for a disaster. It seems that the data show something different.

Overall car safety showed 138 deaths per million registered cars and SUVs were at 140; about the same. Big SUVs over 5000 pounds had a rate of only 92 deaths per million.(The safest of all vehicles, period.) Small economy cars that the go'ment wants us all to drive topped out the list at 249 deaths per million.






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 10-13-2003, 15:34 Post: 66153
Chief



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Mike, Arianna Huffington will be stalking you for posting that. Wink yeah right






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 10-13-2003, 15:57 Post: 66155
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AC the day after my duaghter was born I bought an expedition to wrap her in as much steel as possible, some stats say there are more fatalities in crashes involving large SUVs. That's right what they don't say is the fatality is in the smaller vehicle. Seven years later and now i'm on my third expedition. Tried an H2 for a couple of days but, believe it or not they are not as big on the inside as an expedition.






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 10-13-2003, 20:02 Post: 66162
Peters

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There is something to be said for mass, the trouble is the cars are smaller and SUV's are bigger. If you drive a SUV like it is a car then someone may get hurt, although it may not be you.
I have always figured the best compromise was a Volvo, built like a truck, but the economy of a car. I am not sure the new ones are as tough though.






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 10-14-2003, 10:05 Post: 66199
AC5ZO

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I am not trying to convince anyone to buy a big SUV if they are not inclined to make the purchase. If you choose to buy a big vehicle and are involved in a wreck and someone dies; each one of us has to deal with that in our own way. What I am trying to do is point out the overall safety record, when the government and press seem to want to make SUVs sound like deathtraps ready to roll over if they hit a pebble on the road.

In my particular case, I have been hit several times by drunk or inattentive drivers. They have never significantly damaged my large vehicles. On the other hand, I have not had a citation in so long that I don't even remember when. It has certainly been over 15 years. I have never been at fault in an accident.

In one case, I had to stop for freeway traffic and I saw the idiot coming at me from behind not even paying attention to what was going on ahead of him. I put my head back against the rest, braced my arms on the wheel and waited to get hit. He put on his brakes just a few feet before hitting me. He slid under my GMC Sierra 4X4 and did virtually no damage. I drove home. He did not because of car damage. I don't feel the least bit guilty about having the large vehicle. If I had been in a very small car, I might be dead. (Not PC, not dead...both good things.)

As the Hummer commercial says, "Slip into something a little more metal!" BTW, my H2 is averaging almost 14 MPG in everyday driving. It gets much better gas milage than my 1992 GMC Pickup which no one picks on as a gas hog.






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 10-14-2003, 10:26 Post: 66201
Blueman



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I know AC has a TC45 like myself,and drcjv has a Boomer and an Expedition (like my wife), so I felt compelled to respond. I have her driving the Expedition, because, well, her "driving record" isn't spectacular, and my boys and future daughter are riding around with her most of the time. I sleep better at night, knowing I've got them in one of the safer vehicles around. I drive a Jetta TDI to help "off set" the poor economy of the Expedition. Too bad Ford doesn't put a Powerstoke in that Expedition, at a reasonable cost.






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 10-14-2003, 10:50 Post: 66206
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Mike, I was just kidding you about the Arrianna Huffington thing. I love all 7,200 lbs. of my Dodge Cummins pickup around me and my family as well. I talked to the wife about a Power Stroke powered Excursion as well but she did not like it and Ford has lost their mind on what they charge for it. (well over $50,000) That and the piss poor quality Ford puts out.

If it were up to me most of the idiots I see on the road would not have a driver's license. Constantly yapping on the cell phone, drunks, weaving in and out of traffic, living in the left lane, slam on the brakes first and then the turn signal to turn. I could go on for hours. Driving is a privelidge NOT a right. When the insurance companies and law enforcement start going after these folks for wreckless driving and vehicular homicide, then the problem will turn around. Until then, I want LOTS of steel and iron around my family and I. I am like Mike, haven't had a ticket in over 15 years or been at fault (knock on wood) but I want the protection. So I enjoy hearing from Arrianna and her claim that I support terrorist by driving a SUV or large vehicle. I wonder what she drives and flys around in??????? Wink yeah right OK, I had my rant, I'm done now! Boy do I feel better!!!! Wink yeah right Think I'll go outside and start up the Cummins and the John Deere just to make me feel better and make a little smoke. Wink yeah right






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 10-14-2003, 11:01 Post: 66207
AC5ZO

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Chief, I know you were kidding. Any sentence containing Ms. Huffington's name probably has to be some sort humorous comment. We have kidded about Ms. H before, and this probably won't be the last time, either.

Another thing that I remember from a long time ago is that the cost to repair a Big SUV or pickup after a wreck was generally less than other vehicles. I am sure that this takes into account the amount of overall damage.

Another report that I heard recently on TV news said that some automobile owners are trying to get insurance rates for SUV owners to be higher because of the "higher cost to repair." The automobile owners claim that they are subsidizing the SUV owners. Apparently some insurance companies are following this trend.






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 10-14-2003, 11:35 Post: 66211
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Mike, I figured you knew I was teasing you but just didn't want anyone else who read the thread to think so. Did not want to be responsible for a food fight. Wink yeah right You're right about Arrianna and she needs to work on the beer gut too. Wink yeah right






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 10-14-2003, 11:57 Post: 66213
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Peters,
A Volvo is a good car. To some degree getting larger vehicles is sort of like an arms race, but it is essentially impossible to make all vehicles have the same bumper height and certainly not the same mass. There is just no way to make semi's, military vehicles, and construction equipment that share the same roads as the cars to be 100% compatible. I would never modify a vehicle by raising my 4X4 or lowering a car for street use.

As far as the H2 is concerned, it does share some production parts with the Yukon, Suburban, and other GMC vehicles. But the characterization of a sheep is wolve's clothing is not correct. The ways that those production parts are employed and mixed with new parts make all the difference. Ground clearance, wheel travel, wheel base, suspension geometry, and other critical aspects are very different from the Suburban. I think that the Suburban is a great vehicle, but it is for a different use.

I have been involved in off-road racing for nearly 25 years. I have taken the H2 through some rough terrain in Southeastern Utah near Moab. Those GMC production parts and construction techniques keep the cost down, but it is a very capable vehicle. The H1 is slightly better in my opinion off-road, but the H2 is a better overall vehicle, since even off-roaders spend most of their time on roads. The off-road specification is identical for both vehicles and they run on the same test track in Indiana.

I have built off-road vehicles including pre-runners, motorcycles, and Class V Baja Bugs from scratch. I am also an engineer. I have a Class V Bug in my shop right now that will go places that an H1 or H2 cannot cross. It can do that because the tires are big compared to its light mass, but I certainly would not want to be in a head-on collision with it. Even though it has a three loop roll cage, fuel cell, 5 pt harnesses it still does not have the mass to keep the driver from experiencing fatal levels of mechanical shock in a collision.

Unfortunately, the state where I live is in the top few for being the worst for drunk drivers. There are drivers here with as many as 28 DWIs and they are still driving. They have found ways around every precaution and penalty that the state takes to get them off the road. The statistics are such that at any given time someone on the road in my direct line of sight is drunk. Now, if you add others that are high on Methamphetimine, you have a real circus. If I can take measures to make sure that I am not a victim of this, I certainly will. It is not me that you would need to worry about on the roads, here.

What I don't have an answer for is how you keep the drunks and other impaired people off of the roads and out of large SUVs where they are likely to kill someone if they don't get stopped. Making the SUVs more carlike doesn't solve that problem or help the victims.






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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > SUV and Trucks Forum

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