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 12-30-2000, 14:29 Post: 22933
cutter



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Well the time has finally come when I can build a barn on my property. I am looking at a 40'x60' building with 14' ceiling and a 16'x40' enclosed shop area within the main building. I have thought of skylights and floor drains along with a seperate electric service and a storage area above the enclosed shop for boxes and whatever. This will probably be a once in a lifetime event for me and I would like to do it right. I plan on spending time there when I retire in a few years (right after it is paid for). I sure would appreciate any advice from those with experience with such things. Thanks to you all, Cutter.






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 12-30-2000, 22:33 Post: 22936
RCH



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Cutter, a neighbor picked up at an auction a car/truck hoist for $ 1600 that straddles the vehicle and lifts from the sides. I'd make sure the heighth would accommadate something like that. Also,220 volts,phone, water and propane are mighty handy in a workshop. A blacktop access on the southern side of a building soaks up those winter sun rays helping with snow / ice removal. A truss 2d story floor can eleminate posts on the first floor. Eight or even nine foot double door is nice for getting big things in at an angle to store things off to the sides. Also consider burying an electrical line between the house and barn/workshop so a portable generator can use propane to feed the house electricity with out all that noise. RCH






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 00-00-0000, 00:00 Post: 22938
cutter



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All good ideas. What do you mean by a double door? I am installing a 12x12 over head in the main part of the building and a nine by seven or possibly larger for the shop area. I am probably going to put an additional 12x12 slider on the end of the storage area as well. Also, I like the idea of the sub-feed to the house. Currently my generator is in my attached garage (noisy). Thanks.






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 12-31-2000, 12:10 Post: 22951
RCH



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cutter, by a double door I meant a 16 or 18' garage door; they seal up nice if adjusted properly,they lend themselves to remote openers and they are great for working on machinary half in the shop, especially when welding fumes, pressure washing or water, painting or blowing dust. I'd sugggest a serious REVERSIBLE exhaust fan to save your lungs.
For a shop within a larger building consider insulating it with Icynene,which is sprayed on walls and ceiling. It is a high R insulating material so a 4" inside wall is enough, it adds to the structural integrity of the building, it seals the shop off from the rest of the building for better ventilation and dust control. People love radient floor heat in a shop.
I would start thinking now about how & where you're going to hang tools on the walls, the placement of a compressor and outlets, electrical outlets inclunding 110 and 220 volts, inside and outside walls; water faucets.
Re water, use 3/4" pipe and 3/4" ball valves to preserve the 3/4" diameter in the building. Run a one inch supply to the building if it is any distance. you will forever enjoy the benefits of the Pouissville-Hagen equation where the volume (flow) is proportional to the 4th power of the radius( a 19 % increase of the radius doubles the flow asumming the pressure, viscosity and round configuration of the pipe are constant- throw in a friction factor for length, elbows etc).You can get a hydrant the has an electrical heat probe about 15" long that you can control with a thermostat. Plumb any exposed water lines so you can drain with gravity or,since compressed air is available, blow them out.
There are three resources that have been invaluable to me regarding constuction product and techniques. http://www.taunton.com/fh/ is the url for FINE HOMEBUILDING which is readily available at any comprehensive newstand. A favorite is THE JOURNAL OF LIGHT CONSTRUCTION, url http://www.jlconline.com/ If you subscribe to JLC pretend you are in the building trades ; they have this notion that are only " for the trade". FARM SHOW at http://www.farmshow.com/ is a unique publication with no advertising in the print version with many shop ideas plus a plethora of ideas, inventions, techniques out of farm workshops. There are also candid evaluations of products (hence no advertising) that you want find anywhere except CONSUMERS REPORT. I remember several months ago someone here had a Canadien goverment site with plans for barns/workshops that seemed pretty good as a starting point.
One thing I found for sure was that many builders and subcontractors were NOT knowledgable about new construction products and often where unaware of well known failures of products. I'd be leery of the low bidder. It's important to have a contractor that not threatened by a knowledgale consumer and is established enough so that sub contractors will do a good job so the'll get subsequent jobs. Your part is to have good plans without any changes once you get started and show up twice a day to check on things. To enjoy the experience put it out of head that it's costing $2000/ day! RCH






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 01-01-2001, 22:08 Post: 22973
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RCH,
I am impressed with you ideas on a building. You have obviously given this much thought. I am not build a building yet, but will keep all of these sugestions in mind in the future. The only thing I might add is a shower/lav.

tom






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 01-01-2001, 23:52 Post: 22978
Roger L.



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Those are all good ideas! I've already got them copied down to think about when I build my next barn. Here are a couple of more: If you are having any stalls or turnout pens then be sure to put them on the downhill side of the building for drainage. And a couple of concrete floor ideas. If you are putting in a concrete floor it isn't much extra to put an old fashioned "grease pit" in one area with a concrete stairway leading down to it. If you work under anything this is real handy. A recessed lip holds the parallel 2x6s level with the floor when the pit is not in use.
Another thing that you can put in when pouring a floor is some of that plastic tubing made for heating a floor with hot water. The plastic pipe is real cheap, but has to be put in during the pour. I was at a friend's shop with has a heated concrete floor....heats the whole shop with a hot water heater and a small pump. Very, very, nice heat.






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 01-02-2001, 09:08 Post: 22986
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Rodger, I grew up with 2 "grease pits" in a Gulf station in the Detroit area. 1) make sure there are no drainage problems or put a sump pump in. 2)The width gets tricky with narrow tractors, vans etc. Around 1950 I remember dropping a Crosley car into the pit with makeshift planks to narrow the footprint. I'd suggest a rectangular pit using the lip and plank coverage you suggested situated so you can put the vehicle over it long ways or cross ways. 3) I can tell you from experience, crawling in and out of that pit to get tools gets old fast.
Putting animal stalls on the downhill side is a great suggestion. Also a floor drain really helps keep a workshop clean, both from ice and snow on vehicles and cleaning up. However, code wise its a no-no because of the possible contamination of the enviorment with hydrocarbons.






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 01-02-2001, 12:10 Post: 22994
cutter



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These ideas are great. Thanks a million to you all. I was unaware the drains would be illegal. There must be a method to install them that will pass code. Possibly an oil trap or something, I will check with local zoning. My water will not be installed until the town runs it down my road next year (hopefully). In the mean time, I plan on installing some empty conduit for future use as well as a capped 1" h2o line before the cement is poured. I am curious about the floor heat. Is there someplace I can go to see plans as to how much and what type of plastic is needed as well as a diagram for the installation of the water tank heater?






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 01-02-2001, 13:19 Post: 22996
RCH



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cutter, either in FINE HOMEBUILDING or J OF LIGHT CONSTRUCTION was an article of how to use a hot water tank as a heat source for radient floor system by making a return loop to the tank using the clean-out faucet at the bottom of the tank, a circulating pump and controls. There have been several articles about exactly what kind plastic hose to use ( it's called PEX), how to lay out the pattern , the connectors to use and the controls and pumps. With a dedicated " outside" radient floor heating system usually they run an antifreeze solution so it won't freeze up and bust something; a system utilizing a hot water tank would preclude that or you would lose the hot water advantage.I know there is a relatively new combined water heater and area heater using forced air but having a heated slab AND hot water would be divine. You would have to pour the slab over 2" styrofoam and put styrofoam around the perimeter so you're not trying to heat the ground. You may want a well insulated little closet for the water tank and above ground tubing and machinary.






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 01-02-2001, 16:32 Post: 22999
Roger L.



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RCH...on the system that I saw, the hotwater heater was dedicated to heating the floor system only. I don't know if he had any antifreeze in it or not. His comment was that a using a regular hot water heater for the purpose was much less expensive than any other type of heater system.
As for the drains and legality or not...I don't know, and these things change as treatment fashions come and go. I do know that the next floor that I pour will have all the options: Floor heating, drain pipe (not connected), electric power in conduits, a grease pit (easy to cover if you don't want it), a 6" vertical steel pipe down in the ground for a lift cylinder, and several anchor points for frame straightening and generally tying things down. Plus an extra series of large plastic pipe...probably at least 4" diameter...that is just capped off in case I think of something else I want to run under the floor. All of this is very inexpensive to put in "just in case". The reinforced slab for my shop right now that has none of these things. It is just a chunk of concrete with no options. Strong, though.






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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > Barns Pole Barns Forum

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