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New Branson 4220 engine rattle

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RanchGal
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5 Campbell Texas
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2008-03-25          152388

Just Got a new 4220i (42 hp) 4 cyl.) 17 hours now.
Starts fine runs good, however between 1300 and 2100 rpm the engine sounds like it has a loose bolt rattling around in the engine. Some might call it clatter. I called the dealer and he said that if you already have run it for 17 hours, if it had a serious engine problem it would have already blown up. I wonder if this noise is normal?
Thanks,
RanchGal


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New Branson 4220 engine rattle

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2008-03-25          152390

That was a p-poor response from the dealer. Is he the only game in town, or does he just live with a poor referral rate?

Anyway, I'm going to assume your Branson doesn't have electronic fuel injection. As such, you'll have mechanical injectors, which can get noisy. It's an easy possibility to confirm or eliminate. You simply cut off the fuel to each injector - one at a time. The engine will clearly tell you when you've disabled a good injector. But if you disable one - and the engine doesn't sound any different - you've found a bad one. Good news is that - on such a new tractor - it just might be dirty.

//greg// ....

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RanchGal
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5 Campbell Texas
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2008-03-25          152391

The strange thing is that at idle and up to 1200 rpm it purrs like a kitten and if I boost the rpm to 2200 or higher it sounds fine. There is no loss of power at any rpm even when it making the rattling noise. I read other discussion boards and gathered that this could be explained as "breakin misfire". I hate to make any changes to the engine or play with the injectors as the warranty should cover any/all problems at this point and I don't consider myself much of a diesel mechanic.
thanks for your response.
RanchGal ....

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2008-03-25          152399

Three out of the last four tractors I've owned were bought new - I broke them in myself. This is the first time I've
EVER heard of "break-in misfire". Somebody's yankin' your chain.

Mechanical injectors work on fuel pressure that is developed by the injection pump. There are compression springs inside the injectors that are tripped with a specific fuel PSI. That's what causes the aerosol that eventually detonates in the cylinders. The sequence in which they trip constitutes firing order in a diesel.

Yours is a four cylinder. At low rpms you may not detect the difference between 3 cylinders and 4 cylinders firing. 1200 on a diesel isn't much more than a fast idle, barely even touching the working range of the engine. By 2200 perhaps the pump is working hard enough to actually trip the recalcitrant injector - the engine smooths out.

I'm not saying this is the problem. My only point is that this is ONE of the things that can cause excess "clatter" on a diesel engine. The test to eliminate an injector issue is so simple, there's no reason NOT to take the 15 minutes required to perform it. If it reveals all 4 injectors working fine, you move on to the next possibility.

But - this REALLY may be a warranty issue. Judging by your opening post, any troubleshooting attempts on your part could be used against you by that lazy dealer - who may argue that your meddling with the engine is what caused the problem in the first place. I'm sorta inclined to take the guy to task. Make THEM satisfy YOU.

//greg// ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2008-03-25          152408

I am not a mechanic but: did it made this noise from the very first? did you hear it run before you bought it and did it make it then? does the dealer have another you could listen to and see if it makes the same noise? has anyone else listened to it and noticed it? are you sure it is coming from the engine and not say the hyd pump but if it is that does not mean that is normal. have you looked the tractor over to see if there is any obviously loose bolts or part?

You have checked the oil levels?

I agree with Greg, I would not just let the dealer slip by on my concern. Only thing is if it is totally normal they may have a charge for checking it. Depending on the dealership you may be able to talk directly to a mechanice and they probably would give you a direct answer. Wish you well. kt
....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2008-03-25          152410

Another thought hit me, is it possible the noise is only when the engine is cold and you are not noticing it at the higher rpm as it warms up quicker there? or it may not be getting very warm at all at the rpm level you are hearing it at depending on the temp and what you are doing.

My small Kubota can rattle when it is cold and the temp is probably below 40. But it smooths out as it warms. kt ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2008-03-25          152411

Have you tried any fuel additives to see if it changes? You might try adding a little Power Service additive. ....

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New Branson 4220 engine rattle

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RanchGal
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5 Campbell Texas
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2008-03-25          152422

This started from the get go with 2 hours on it. So what I have been doing is just running it at 1200 rpm with no noise or if I get anxious I run it at 2300 to 2600 rpm with no noise. The dealer said he was going to see if another new 4220 tractor did the same thing, but I think this was the only 4220 on his lot. I did drive it before I bought it, but not at higher than 1200 rpm.
Warm/Cold same thing here in Texas it's been around 70 and it warms up pretty quick.
All the fluid levels are full.
Tomorrow, I will look at it closer and try to turn off the fuel to each cylinder like greg suggested and if that doesn't expose a bad injector then I think I might try using some farm diesel or an additive and see what happens.

If all fails then I will have the dealer do the 50 hour fluid changes and fix it or replace it. Only problem with that is that I bought from this dealer because he gave me the best price and he is 120 miles away. The closer dealers (30 miles and 44 miles) couldn't beat his price and deliver it.

Will let you know
Thanks,
RanchGal ....

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New Branson 4220 engine rattle

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CoyD1968
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3 Lufkin Texas
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2008-04-04          152750

I have a new 3820i it sounds the same at mid range, before 2,100 have you found anything out yet. I only have 21hrs on my machine. Thanks ....

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2008-04-04          152751

Diesels by nature have a rattling/clattering sound to them, so maybe we're chasing a non-problem here. Let me ask if this is the first diesel either of you have owned?

//greg// ....

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RanchGal
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5 Campbell Texas
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2008-04-05          152756

I have owned a new Green 3 cyl 5103 diesel but I think the exhaust sound covered up any engine noises that it may have been making.
I had a diesiel mechanic listen to it. No noise when cold but when it warmed up the noise was only audible at 1700-1800 rpm. SO it's changing. (used to be 1300 -2200)
The mechanic said "that's a diesel". "May be piston slap or valves and won't hurt anything, if it gets a lot worse then take it in." We discovered some water in the fuel separater. unfortunately, there is no drain valve on the bowl. I added some fuel conditioner drier to the tank and drove it around for a bit. Now the noise goes away if the engine is under load. Since this tractor has probably been sitting out in the weather for year at the dealer, it's had plenty of time to accumulate some water in the fuel. (Dealer says it's a 2007 and was on his lot since then).
Bottom Line.. The noise is going away and the mechanic said "that 4 cylinders are more likely to do this than 3 cylinders. A little piston slap is normal especially if there is water in the fuel.. if it was a rod or bearing it would have already cratered"
In My opinion.. They should tell you in the manual to run out the old dealer provided diesel fuel during break in. It turns out, (like greg said) that there is not really a serious problem.
Thanks everyone for your ideas,
RanchGal
....

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New Branson 4220 engine rattle

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CoyD1968
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3 Lufkin Texas
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2008-04-05          152758

This is not my first Diesel, I have had several, Trucks and a tractor before, ....

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New Branson 4220 engine rattle

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OtherEnd
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2 Wentzville,Mo
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2008-04-19          153110

It maybe something simple as a loose body panel. My 40hp 3cyl Century, (same maker as your Banson or Zetor) Has a rattle. After 200 Hours of use, I love this machine. ....

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