2210 Steer Ratios: John Deere Review  -- John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum and Review 2210 Steer Ratios: John Deere Review -- John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum

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 02-28-2004, 12:11 Post: 78175
Murray



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 2210 Steer Ratios

Could anyone comment on why my 2210 is such a joy to steer in two wheel drive and so difficult in four wheel drive. On any surface hard or soft,wet or dry,crawl speed or less a maximum turn is almost impossible without major wheel slippage.
Various tire pressures make little difference. The MMM weight should produce a balanced weight distribution on each wheel I would think. If this was a homebuilt tractor I would say the front axel gear ratios were wrong. Any opinions.






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 02-28-2004, 16:23 Post: 78195
psimonson

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 2210 Steer Ratios

I think you're describing the "normal" binding action that occurs when most any vehicle, (car, truck or tractor) is locked in 4WD. Gear ratios in the front and rear axles should provide an identical ground speed when traveling straight ahead but when turning you create two different paths for the inner and outer wheel on both the front and rear axle.

For example, if we assume the outer front wheel turns in a 72” radius and the front axle is 30” wide, the radius the inner front wheel turns is only 42”. When you are going straight the front and rear track. When you turn, the rear end follows the front end in much the same way as a trailer and moves in a tighter radius than the front end. Let’s say the outside rear wheel in our example follows a 64” radius so with the same 30” tread width, the inner rear tire would follow a 34” radius.

When you’re turning in two wheel drive the spider gears in the rear end allow the rear tires to turn at a different rate compensating for the difference in the size of the circle they are making. When you shift to 4WD you ask the front spider gears to do the same thing but, because the front and rear are solidly coupled, there is a bind created because all 4 tires are turning different radii. Some all wheel drive vehicles have a viscous coupling between the front and rear axles, rather than a gear box, to provide some slippage between the axles in addition to the speed differential allowed left to right by the spider gears.

Tire pressures should be in line with mfr. recommendations to get the theoretically correct ratios for traveling straight ahead. There have been threads that talked about checking footprint as well as pressure but, because of my racing background, I check all new vehicles with a pressure gauge then I jack up the front and rear separately and measure each tire’s circumference with a narrow ruler to be sure they are within 1/8", or so, on the same axle. Radials are pretty consistent but some supposedly identical bias ply tires vary by inches at the same pressure. This could be due to manufacturing differences but in some cases it is simply the result of different pressures needed to seat the bead on the rim when the tire was first mounted that stretched the casing.






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 02-28-2004, 19:57 Post: 78212
DRankin



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 2210 Steer Ratios

Every 4wd I have ever owned (car, truck or tractor) has done the same as you describe to some degree. Just the nature of the beast I think.

I would guess that the super-short wheelbase and tight turning radius on your tractor make it more noticeable.






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 03-01-2004, 10:40 Post: 78370
Murray



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 2210 Steer Ratios

Thanks to all who responded to my wheel slippage situation. My mowing pattern was to use my paved driveway for turn arounds to reduce wear on the grass. This worked well with my previous mower(Honda 4 wheel drive and 4 wheel steer)(Eight seasons same tires)
The 2210 will dictate staying on the grass and slow wide turns. Problem is slopes on my property demand mowing in four wheel drive. The other problem is I really like the rest of this tractor.
Thanks again






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 03-01-2004, 20:37 Post: 78447
Art White



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The problem you have is common on many four wheel drive tractors for farm use as well as on mowers! Air pressure often can reduce it but you can balance your air pressure easiest on the driveway just by driving and engaging and disengaging the four wheel drive lever with ease and no grinding or restriction. Kubota introduced Bi-speed turn years ago and it cures the problem and actually allows you to turn as tight as two wheel drive!






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 03-01-2004, 20:51 Post: 78450
kwschumm



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 2210 Steer Ratios

Art, I did a search on Kubota's web site for bi speed and the only hits were for discontinued products. Why did they drop it?






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 03-01-2004, 20:56 Post: 78452
Art White



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 2210 Steer Ratios

I thought the B-2410 still offered it but I might be mistaken as there was a lot discussed at the meetings. The unit was not the most popular option as most people don't need it and 400 dollars is 400 dollars!






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 03-02-2004, 07:07 Post: 78473
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The front drives in most 4wd tractors lead the rear drives by 5% travel or more. In tight turns even this lead isn't sufficient but more lead would place greater stress on the front drive when not in a turn. There's really no good solution except for a differential in the front drive shaft. Not only does the tire slip in turns but the 4wd in effect also quits. Carrying weight on the 3ph may lessen lawn damage but it also would make back-flips more likely when going up hills.

Sounds like you're doing the work without going off the grass. It's good to keep in mind that using 4wd on high traction surfaces adds to wear and tear--especially with heavy weight in a loader. Front tires have to do a fair bit of slipping whether in tight turns on the straight. Greater traction places greater stress on the drive train.






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 03-03-2004, 20:49 Post: 78689
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Hi, Tom. Not to nitpick, but I believe the front wheel "lead" in a properly set up 4WD is typically 1% to 5%. Any more than that and the front drive would be noticably trying to pull/drag the rear drive (faster spinning and tearing front wheels) even in sraight forward operation. You can accidently create an over-lead by increasing front wheel size, or decreasing rear wheel size. You can create and "under-lead" push condition by doing the opposite.

You are right about the front differential as a solution. I've never heard Kubota owners talking about bi-speed turn in comparisons over the years. Not that it didn't exist, but perhaps it wasn't a total solution, or was not worth the extra cost as an option. Pete






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 03-03-2004, 21:22 Post: 78696
Art White



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Pete, at one time it was offered on all of the B-series. Now they only use it on the B-2410 and the larger M-series. Yes it does sell for more but the market has not been strong or the marketing is weak!






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