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 11-19-2005, 20:26 Post: 119554
EricBX1500



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 pole barn sub panel

Need some advise? I ran power to my pole barn and I want to know if this is correct. I ran 130 of #8 THHN in plastic conduit from my main panel with a 30amp breaker at my main panel feeding a sub panel in my pole barn (my sub does not have a main disconnect at the barn only at the main). There is no metal of any sort connecting my house to my pole barn except a phone line. I ran two hots and a neutral but no ground wire. I installed two grounding rods at the pole barn six feet apart. I also bonded the neutral and ground at the sub panel. Does all this seem correct?






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 11-19-2005, 21:12 Post: 119558
Chief



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 pole barn sub panel

For a barn, I think I would use the cable you used or maybe one size larger to a 100 amp temporary pole/panel assy. 30 amp is not really adequate for generic us at a barn in my opinion. I purchased a 100 amp service pole to include the meter mount base, 100 amp circuit breaker box, weather proof 120 volt weather proof receptical, 16' pole with copper grounding strap, 8' grounding rod, and 80 lb. bag of concrete for $488. Keep an eye out in your local "Free Cycle" website as I just got one for free. I am a moderator on out local Free Cycle websit so let me know if I can get you pointed in the the right direction as far as web sites if you are a "thrifty" farmer like me. ;O)






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 11-20-2005, 20:40 Post: 119613
steve4300

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 pole barn sub panel

#8 copper is fine for 30 amps,You do need to run a # 10 ground wire with the #8s making it a 4 wire. you still need the 2 ground rods and do not bond the neutral and grounds






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 11-24-2005, 10:25 Post: 119778
Deereman



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 pole barn sub panel

Eric,

As a Journeman Electrician, you also need a dis-connecting means at the barn, such as a fuseable or non-fuseable safety switch or a small panel with a 30a breaker switch. You must have a means of switching the power in the barn. HTH.






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 11-24-2005, 23:08 Post: 119804
EricBX1500



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 pole barn sub panel

Thanks for the reply deersman. I have less then 6 sweeps of the hand only 4. So under these conditions I do not need a main disconnect in the barn. NEC does state this. My 30amp breaker at the main panel qualifies for a main disconnect.






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 11-25-2005, 11:45 Post: 119817
Deereman



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 pole barn sub panel

Eric,

I can't tell you what chapter this reg. is in, my nec is at the shop, but I believe if your sub feeding a panel, you need a dis-connecting means, "unless" your running it less than 50ft. or "within sight" of the panel being fed from. Or, whatever you feel comfortable with. Smile
I bought some rual property a while back and built a 30x50 barn, I had the local co-op run some primary(800ft. buried) up to a pad mounted xformer(they also set a pedastal meter) which was about 50ft. from the barn. I asked the electrician what the local code was(was'nt sure for that county), for me to bury it into the barn. His response was, "I don't care if you run an extension cord....it's yours now" Laughing out loud. Take care and be safe.






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 11-25-2005, 14:31 Post: 119822
EricBX1500



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 pole barn sub panel

deersman check out section 225.33 which specifically permits this.

thanks






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 11-25-2005, 18:05 Post: 119829
kthompson



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 pole barn sub panel

With code varying for area to area you both could be correct on what is allowed or required. As to the fourth wire for 220 it was not long ago that no circuit 110 or 220 had a fourth wire for single phase except in a mobile home in my world. If you will look in many breaker boxes you will find grounds and neutrals on same buss. As least in my part of the world. If the buss is mounted directly on the metal box as or has a jumper screw as some area's codes require you are in effect joining them still. The meter box I install two years ago only had three wires from the power company (220) so neutral and ground were joined by them. THeir neutral mounted to the meter box, with ground wire also mounted to the meter box. To me they are in same circuit.






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 11-29-2005, 20:28 Post: 120086
steve4300

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 pole barn sub panel

correct ,but you are talking about the main service panel, as far as a sub panel you have always been required to have a 4 wire at least back 1985 before that I don't know thats when I got into the trade. In the 2002 code they required you to add the ground rods for buildings supplied by anouther building.Article 250.32 . As far as having a disconnect at the barn yes in acordance with art.225.32






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 11-29-2005, 22:19 Post: 120089
kthompson



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I left the electric business before 1985 for other than my own barn and my brother's. The biggest thing I was trying to say is the way I think he wired it was standard for many years and it will work. I still find it hard to believe if it is safe to wire it that way from the meter base to the main breaker box and it is not safe to a sub panel. At same time it is only three wires run by the power company from transformer to meter base, two powers and a single ground/neutral. So why is there no need for a seperate 4th wire when it comes to the power in or out of meter base?

It used to be unless you had either more than 6 or 8 breakers (not sure now which number is was) you were not required to have a main disconnect either, again, per code here. That was even on a main breaker box. Is the extra ground wire safer, probably. So are ground fault outlets and I do recommend them anywhere near where water may be. Now would that not be for any outlet he may use an extension code to run something outside with?
Before someone comes along and say you sure had lax code there let me say 14 guage wire and 15 amp circuits have not been legal here since at least 1970 and all services had to be in conduit, not as they were with expoused (do not remember the type of wire they used as we did not use it here) in some large cities in other states.

Now if he wants to talk with his local code people and ask them if what he did is per code that is his call. I would not suggest he bring them out to his building as they may have all kind of issues.

A point that concerns me more that the 4th wire would be the depth he buried his conduit.






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