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 11-17-2008, 21:25 Post: 157954
brokenarrow



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 Road work information needed

Need info from the experts. I just bought another 40 acres. 215 now total so I am starting to get up there with land for trail walking and such. There are trails thru this land already and I think its time to link em all together and get them in better shape. (the new 40 is connected to the other 160).
I want the trails to shed water and not pocket it. Most of the land is very high so I wont worry too much about the lower trails, not much you can do about that, water from the ridge has to go down? I would say that 180 acres is never wet and 20 are wet in rainy season.
Here are a few questions
All my questions are for a dozer, I will not spend the time with my tractor on this. I am talking about 3-4 miles of trail so I am getting a dozer hired in.
1) Is there a way to or a blade designed that will pull ground up to the center and then v it off as it goes?
2). What time of year would you do this. When it is very dry in the middle of summer or when other time is best?
30. Any other suggestions?
My bride wants to have trails that are flat,dry and very neat appearance looking. What would you seed it down with afterward considering the lack of sun that will reach this in many spots? Anything is better than nothing but something must be better than nothing Laughing out loud.
I have plenty of ideas of my own since I am into food plotting heavy, but the shea distance I need to cover is the daunting matter that makes me want to ask the folks that have actually done something like this. I dont want to get crazy with money either
thank you






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 11-17-2008, 23:49 Post: 157955
bvance

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 Road work information needed

BA,

How wide do you want to path? A small dozer will typically have a blade 5-6 feet wide, probably about right for a woods path. I would just flag where you want the path to meander and have him blade in a path, filling in the low spots from the higher spots and when he's done roughing in that path bed, he can just tip his blade a bit and make a couple of passes and crown the path a bit if most of the area is flat. If the land has some general slope to it, I would try to build the majority of the path with a slight tip one way or the other and not mess with a crown. A good dozer operator can take a look at your ground and advise best.

I would then spread 3/4 minus crushed rock because when it settles down it locks into a nice solid path bed, where pea gravel is a pain because it is always moving around and difficult to walk on.

Place a bench every so often and enjoy it!

Brian






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 11-18-2008, 08:00 Post: 157956
auerbach



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 Road work information needed

You are describing "crowning" the trails, so water flows from the higher center to the sides and off. I've not seen a blade that automatically crowns. Rather, the operator sets, say, the left side of the blade lower (1-3", depending on width), grades the left half of the trail, and comes the other way to do the other side with the same blade-set. They are used to doing this.






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 11-18-2008, 09:44 Post: 157960
Murf



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 Road work information needed

BA, I think you're confusing road work with trail work. Yes you can kill a fly with a nuke, but it's overkill.

All you need is a fairly flat level area to walk.

Without knowing one critical piece of information, and that is whether the trails will be going up/down, or side-slope (along the side of the hill) I can't offer much information as to slope.

The general rule of thumb though is unless there is a good reason not to, you always slope a side-slope road such that it is flat and sloping INTO the side of the hill, you always want the ditch between the road and the up-slope side. Then every so often (depending on conditions) you make either a drain, a trench full of stone that goes under the road, or a culvert. This goes a LONG way to preventing erosion.

However, in your case, you probably won't have the single biggest cause of erosion, wheel tracks!! When the water runs in wheel tracks it causes a lot of erosion.

If you can just make a fairly flat, slightly sloped trail and then get a decent crop of grass growing on it you should be just fine without too much erosion.

My suggestion would be to, as Brian advised, hire a decent, skilled operator with a bit of experience at this sort of thing and set him loose. Just roughly mark where you want the trail and give him 'the reigns' and let him have some freedom to go around any bad spots he finds and so on, and you will be just fine. Just be sure to tell the operator that you want a GRASSED trail, he needs to top it with with topsoil, not scrape it all away for a road or driveway.

As for the time of year to do it, fall is good if you haven't already missed that opportunity up there. If there are any trees in the way of where you want to go, I'd say to cut them late in the winter, and start work as soon as the ground is dry enough. That will get you to the point you can seed in the spring.

Best of luck.






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 11-18-2008, 12:21 Post: 157963
earthwrks

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BA: I didn't see anywhere where you mentioned the type of top soil, sub soil and the base soil. Didn't see anything about vegetation, trees, stumps, etc. that will cause problems from every aspect of grading. Unless you have a barren tract with absolutely no issues or obstacles this could be a nightmare from every aspect---from expectations to cost and time frame. Simply running a dozer through the woods with the blade tilted (to make a crown) on one side (typically) means you should run it down the other side too. The simple act of removing a tree stump and backfilling it opens up a spot for water to lay and ground to settle--which could 2-3 years. I did land clearing down yonder where the vegetation was so dense that I couldn't maneuver my bobcat let alone a dozer--every tree or shrub pulled out has to go somewhere. Be prepared for piles of dirt mixed with debris. Once it's like that good luck pulling it out to separate and move it.

At the very least-- I would seriously consider a big bobcat on tracks with a rotary horizontal grinder or a dedicated hydro-axe (about the cost of two dozers an hour but worth it) to go through and make the initial trail with you leading or making the trail as you go on an ATV or the like. A hydro-axe will grind anything including the roots and leave a mulch mat in its path. I'd let the mulch rot over the winter and spring then see what you have as far holes, ruts etc. You might even want to harvest the wood before the hydro-axe goes through, then just have them grind the stumps. A road grader may be the ticket to rough groom the trail too. (I'll sell you mine---it has a cab too!)

Now may be the time to look into a 6 or 8' power rake which can windrow anything in its path. Just remember to remove the PTO shaft when backing up, buddy Laughing out loud





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 11-18-2008, 13:45 Post: 157971
Murf



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Jeff, how long do you think it would take to run that grader up here, I need one for the airport....... Wink yeah right

Just imagine what the guys at the Ambassador Bridge would say!! Laughing out loud


Best of luck.






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 11-18-2008, 14:40 Post: 157976
earthwrks

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I don't think they'd have a oproblem with it--'cept I don't have a visa (only MC-tehehe)

20 years ago I did bring back a '60s-ear experimental airplane fuselage (sp) from your neck o' woods on a car trailer. That REALLY drew attention but was simpler than I figured it would be. (I was just doing it for a co-worker who did all the paperwork.) You being a pilot and being the same age as me and my former co-worker--you may know of him: Dan Mitchell--thin dude with sandy blonde hair who had a single engine plane on Grosse Ille Airport. He had plans to manufacture both the plane and parts, whicjh I don't believe ever happened since he went to work for Toyota of America in California.






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 11-18-2008, 14:48 Post: 157977
earthwrks

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Oh the grader---I dunno: how fast can you drive a rollback truck? We bought two; sold the one we trucked back to a guy in Nebraska on the rollback, and the former owner drove the good one we have now for us.

I'm not sure it's heavy enough for your use if you mean for snow plowing and the mouldboard isn't all that tall either.

Ha! reminds of my way to a buddy's home in Ann Arbor. A BIG county grader fitted with a butterfly or V plow--the ones you can barely see over or around--was nose first in DEEP ditch. As I drove by (slowly of course), the operator gave me one of those looks like, "OK f---ker, just keep going" Smile






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 11-18-2008, 15:14 Post: 157978
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 Road work information needed

EW, was the Rock Flat before are after you graded it?






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 11-18-2008, 15:51 Post: 157980
earthwrks

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Kenny: "before are after"? Assuming you type like ya tolk--I think you mean "or" not "are". Laughing out loud

The Flat Rock has been here for millions of years--it's a BIG outcropping of limestone in a river that runs through town. BTW, Flat Rock was the name given by the native americans living here. Ironically, our town has the dubious distinction as the launching-off point for bringing the natives westward, which incidentally are my ancestors.

SO to answer your question about me "grading" it...guess I'd have to give it an F. So Sad

I know you were trying to be a smartypants but you got a history lesson instead--today's YOUR DAY!

When's TG dinner again? I know I'm invited 'cause I'm "the turkey". Gobble gobble, pilgrim!






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