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Installing Drainage Pipe for Lawn

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ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 762 Kingston, NY
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2004-03-21          80639


My daughter got on the backhoe and dug an 80 foot trench 2 feet deep to drain water off the driveway and route it around the edge of the lawn. I have been quoted $3/foot for 8" perforated platic pipe and $250 for an 18" concrete catch basin and steel grate. Total cost $490 not including stone to fill in around pipe. Guye recommends 1&2s for stone. I am looking for cheaper alternatives. Does anyone know where I can order plastic catch basins? I think 8" pipe may be an overkill - 6" may be enough. Any other ideas to reduce cost?

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Installing Drainage Pipe for Lawn

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-03-21          80645


Is it just draining the water that's falling on the driveway? Or is there other water to contend with? Seems to me 4" pipe would be sufficient since it's more than adequate to drain the roof area of 4000 sf ranch style homes. Of course I haven't seen your driveway and have been known to be wrong :) ....

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Installing Drainage Pipe for Lawn

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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2004-03-21          80653


Ncrunch32
NY. ? How deep does the frost get around you? By the looks of your pictures (your front drive and back yard) Seems like you have plenty of slope for drainage? I sure hope my boy can hook up with a gal like your daughter some day (one that can run a tractor, and like it) Sounds like you have a fine young lady there! Maybe you have found the perfect wedding gift? ....

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Installing Drainage Pipe for Lawn

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2004-03-21          80654


newkurch: any farm supply store will have perforated plastic drain tile. I think 4 inch is around 30 cents a foot. if you think you need bigger a 5 inch surely would be big enough except in a cloud burst. unless the catch basin is in the drive its self you really don't need one. Just fill the last three or four feet of trench with pea gravel not crushed limestone, the freezing and thawing will eventualy cause the crushed rock to crumble into lime sealing your drain shut. Just keep a 1% grade or more to the tile outlet and you should be fine. Hope this helps, Frank. ....

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Installing Drainage Pipe for Lawn

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Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2004-03-21          80655


The pipe sizes from 4 to 6 to 8 are not incrimental but essential doubling the carrying capacity. An 8 inch pipe will carry a lot of water per hour. ....

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Installing Drainage Pipe for Lawn

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ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 762 Kingston, NY
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2004-03-21          80670


KW, you can see my driveway in pic 1. It is just the rain runoff. Trench goes to the right of house and there should enough pitch. I've checked with a laser level. I agree normally 4" should be fine. Last year we had lots of torrential downfall. I want to reseed the lawn and am concerned about the washout before I can get the grass growing.

Broken, yes she's quite a lady. Changes her own oil - in civil engineering program at U at Buffalo. There are plenty of suitors out there for her. Too many! :)

Hardwood - I agree I might not neede a catch basin if I do what you suggest. I will think about that.

Peters - yep - maybe 4" or 6" will do. Thanks all for your advice.

....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2004-03-22          80676


Something I forgot,no matter how you design your system intakes, size the tile, etc. do yourself a real favor and put an animal guard on the end of the tile at the outlet end, I've dug up a few too many pluged tile with a muskrat that had been there a little too long blocking the flow. Frank. ....

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Installing Drainage Pipe for Lawn

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2004-03-22          80694


It's likely not the same idea but I am reminded of what a contractor told me once. I was thinking about tiling around the foundations of a house at our camp (now demolished) to protect the foundations against frost damage. The contractor said 'Well the trouble is that when you need it the soil is already saturated and there's no place for it to drain unless you pump it from a sump to a drainage slope.' The house didn't have much back grading and that among other things is what killed it, but it was actually dead before we got it.

Tile drainage systems work best if the end sees daylight. The soil may have a high perc rate but probably not enough for storms and it might be good to think what where water from the catch basin goes. I've seen rockless tile for septic systems but I don't know the cost. ....

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ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 762 Kingston, NY
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2004-03-22          80727


OK, I am zeroing in on what I need here. I bought a small 1'x1' plastic catch basin from home depot for $40. I think I will buy 6" poly pipe at $2/foot with smooth inside wall. There will be adequate pitch. I will have daylight at the exit end of the pipe. I will screen the exit end of the pipe so rodents don't get in there.

I am thinking of buying the solid wall pipe so I don't have to worry about dirt getting in the pipe. And - I don't see any water leeching into trench from surrounding lawn because of high clay content (I see no trench drainage benefit to perforated pipe from nearby lawn along the length of the pipe).

Is there any disadvantage to using solid rather than perforated pipe when pipe is exposed to daylight at exit end? Someone told me a solid pipe could actually lift out of the ground over time! Is that true? ....

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Installing Drainage Pipe for Lawn

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AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
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2004-03-22          80755


The perforated pipe is designed to have the holes pointing down to allow water to seep into or out of the pipe and still keep the flow area open. You can use this pipe to pick up water from wet areas and to distribute it into areas of high percolation.

I have never seen a drain pipe "float" out of the ground. I have put in a number of these so-called French Drains over the years using a combination of perforated and solid pipe. When I only wanted to convey water from one point to another, I used the solid pipe as you are planning to do.

It is possible for the soil over a shallow perforated pipe to erode and expose the pipe if it is very shallow because the covering soil can be washed away with the draining water. I always use as much rock as I can over the perforated section and they have stayed covered. Solid pipe sections have never been a problem whether they have been shallow or deep. ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2004-03-23          80795


It might be good to think about the trench grade. I don't know what an optimal grade might be but I think there are some issues.

I think that one issue is volume, and long runs pipe with little slope have lower flows even with a head on the intake end. I also think pipes that have shallow grades tend to be more prone to collecting sediment. Of course, steeper slopes means having to extend the pipe further down hill to get to daylight.

If the pipe drains a sizable area then there's going to be much more water at the outlet than from normal surface drainage and it would be good to think about surface drainage from the outlet. Permanent wet spots, erosion etc. are possible. If it's flex pipe then it's also good to ensure that the grade is constant so the entire pipe drains. I'm just raising issues and maybe somebody has the answers.

It might be good to shoot the trench floor to a specific slope, which can be a fun job in itself.

....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2004-03-23          80803


TomG; in my earlier post I talked about keeping the grade at 1% or greater. You are right the steeper the grade the more water a drain will carry. I guess I was speaking of field drainage tile. We live in an aeria where a non submerged outlet is almost a gift from above. We've ran (with a laser) as flat as 1/10th% grade to get an outlet out of a low areia, you're right it is slow to drain but it does work. When I was a kid (shortly after the Pilgrims landed) I worked part time for an Uncle who was installing the sewer hookup lines from from the main line in the street in our new town sewer system to homes around town. First day on the job he ran the hoe and guess who was in the trench with a pointed shovel and a four ft. level. He said "keep it on a half", I asked him what he was talking about, his reply was keep the level on half a bubble other wise it's too steep and will plug. I really never knew what degree of slope a half bubble is on a four ft. level, but so far I've never known of any I helped install giving trouble. Frank. ....

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Installing Drainage Pipe for Lawn

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blizzard
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 282 Central Maine
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2004-03-23          80818


There's some flow rate info at the link below.
search with Google on: pipe area drain calculate
and you'll get a lot of info too.
bliz ....


Link:   Flow_rates

 
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Installing Drainage Pipe for Lawn

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ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 762 Kingston, NY
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2004-03-23          80838


Blizzard, great link. Thanks! ACZO, thanks for keeping me straight on perforated vs solid pipe. TomG and Hardwood - thanks for the additional info on slope. I will be working closely on the pitch and may not backfill over the pipe until I watch the flow during some storms. I have time to play with this. I like the 1/2 bubble on a four foot level rule of thumb. Nice and simple. ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2004-03-24          80916


Sounds like the ideas here came together pretty well--room for both some work and a little research, which should make things interesting. I must be one of the last people in the world to use a water level and trig tables but it's fun (and doesn't need sight lines). Laser levels are sure getting inexpensive though. Somewhere I've seen a table that relates level bubbles to slopes but I can't remember where--half-bubble is simpler than trig tables though.

I tend to shoot my surface ditches to 3%, which seems to give good flow with little erosion but that may not be best for a pipe. Best angles for solid pipe likely are greater than for perforated pipe where you want water to hang around in the pipe. Yes, tiling for big fields would need to be near the Grand Canyon if appreciable slopes were used.
....

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lbrown59
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 931 First Organized Permanent Settlement In The Northwest Territory.
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2004-10-07          97834


drainage ditches

I have a couple of drainage ditches that I would like to line with something.

Anybody have any ideas short of a concrete ditch?

....

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Installing Drainage Pipe for Lawn

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dieseltrctr
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 21 Kansas
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2005-08-27          115526


ncrunch32...looked at your pics. Very nice looking property you have! What kinda psycho neighbor are you dealing with there? That is quite the deal with the anti-freeze jug. Nobody should have to put up with that...keep a stiff upper lip and good luck to ya :-)
....

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Installing Drainage Pipe for Lawn

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ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 762 Kingston, NY
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2005-08-27          115529


Dieseltrctr, thanks for the compliment. My son has helped me complete staining the front of the house, and he and my daughter (with aid of the JD 4310) have helped me complete a stone wall in the back. So things are looking even nicer now. As for the neighbor - my wife and I are as tough as nails. So don't worry about us, my wife carries a Smith and Wesson. ....

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