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lakeman
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 39 Rollag Minnesota
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2004-01-14          73962


I am not sure where this post belongs but hope someone can help. I am building a new house with an attached garage. I live in Minnesota where the winters are cold. I am going to insulate my garage and try to keep it heated to a around 40 degrees all winter. Does anybody have any advice on what to use. I was thinking about mounting a heater on the wall. I am not sure if I should go electric or propane? Or what kind of heater to use?

Thaks for the help.

Lakeman

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7152 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2004-01-14          73964


If you have not yet already poured the garage slab have them lay PEX (cross-linked PolyEthylene) tubing in the floor and heat that way.

It is not only one of the most efficient ways to do it, it puts the heat uniformly into the room where you want it most, at the floor.

The hot water can be supplied by a huge variety of sources from the household water heater on up.

One of the big advantages of this type of heat in a situation like a garage is that when the door opens you dont lose all the heat, a good portion of it is in the thermal mass of the floor which stays warm even though the door is open. It also keeps the underside of your vehicles dry by burning off moisture before it can begin to rust. It's also really nice to have a warm floor if you're going to do any work out there in the winter.

Best of luck. ....

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shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 848 Wisconsin
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2004-01-14          73967


Even if you don't see yourself heating your garage above 40 deg. now, you WILL find many things to do in there and someday you'll want 60 deg. or more. Whatever you decide to use for heat I would make sure you can get it to room temperature. It's surprising how fast a garage can turn into a "shop."
Dave ....

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grinder
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 677 central Maine
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2004-01-14          73978


What type of heat are you putting in the house?Radiant floor in the slab for cold climate is a good way to go. It's becoming quite popular around here. I know several that have and like it.
I talked to a Solar guy here in Maine and he said he
can keep a (slab) 80 degrees with a solar panel in winter?
I called him to late on this house( slab was in) Went with a kerosene heater for occ. use. Without using the heater, the garage will stay above freezing, just from being connected to the house, if it is well insulated.There is a wealth of info on "buiding science" and cold weather houses on the web. Laying down some foam board before you pour is worth considering.
I used a 18x8 "Garaga" garage door 2" thick R-16, made in
Canada, supposed to be the best,well worth it!

I'm not sure how big you are going? But I have found a 2" pitch in a 28x28
garage works ideal to keep the puddles away. Thats 2' from all edges to the center.

Don't forget the drain with sand trap(5 gal bucket)min.
I used a thirty gal. concrete well tile.
I assume they sand the roads there?
if you are going to heat it in snow country you will have water.
I get into building sorry if it's info overkill, It's what I do full time,and you need to do the research before the cement!
good luck
....

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lakeman
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 39 Rollag Minnesota
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2004-01-14          73981


Thanks Everyone. This is a tremendous website. I am heating my house with a heat pump. This uses outside air and will double as an air conditioner. I also have a electrical plenum heater with a propane backup system. I also have a very efficient fireplace that I will try to use as much as possible. I have already poured the cement in the garage. It has a drain but my options are limited at this point. Thanks

Lakeman ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-01-14          73982


Don't assume that you can put in a garage drain without checking with your building department. Where we live they wouldn't let us put in a garage drain without having a waste water treatment system to filter what goes down it. That makes no sense since I hose the garage floor out to the yard anyway, but bureaucracy often makes no sense. ....

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grinder
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 677 central Maine
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2004-01-14          73983


Since you have the LP what about a Monitor? are you familiar
with them? You can direct vent them.(no chimmney reguired.
very dependable low maint. heat. ....

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lakeman
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 39 Rollag Minnesota
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2004-01-14          73984


Not familiar with a "Monitor" Is that a stand alone propane unit?
....

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grinder
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 677 central Maine
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2004-01-15          74024


Yes,it is.RINNAI,+ TOYO are two others. I'm sure there are more.
I have seen a LP model that does not need elec. and some with a exhaust pipe through the wall using PVC pipe.
Do you have an Agway or trustworthy store? They advertise
them here. ....


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grinder
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 677 central Maine
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2004-01-15          74027


KWSCHUMM
You are right about the drains. WE are not suppose to do it either. Possible oil and gas in the ground I guess. But as
of now, Maine has no building code, but it's coming!
....

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drcjv.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 334 southeastern pa
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2004-01-16          74144


Lakeman I have a 25'X 25' garage and a 15'X 15' workshop that I heat with propane plaque heaters that are mounted on the wall. They work great the are ventless. I bought them at Tractor supply and installed them myself. They work great they can raise the temp from 20 to 70 in under a hour. I would not use electric it is much more expensive and slower. The second floor of my garage is a playroom for the kids and has electric it does not heat up nearly as fast as the garage. You ca also buy a 100 gal tank at tcs one fill will usually last me the winter. ....

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lakeman
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 39 Rollag Minnesota
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2004-01-16          74207


I am not sure what a propane plaque heater is. Sounds very interesting. I could hook it into my large propane tank thats on the home furnace. What is a brand name of one of them. I did a search on Propane Plaque Heaters and came up with nothing. ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2004-01-17          74259


I think radiant heating can be applied to an existing slab but it would raise the floor level. The Library Board is doing some building right now. A new room in an existing slab on grade municipal recreation hall is being constructed. Supplemental heating is needed since the rec hall is kept cool when not in use and a radiant retrofit was discussed. Far as I know they are popular and efficient systems, but all bidders on the contract went with some variation of electrical. I think there'd be considerable problems in changing the floor levels and the idea may not work at all if the traffic were equipment rather than people.

The ventless propane systems sound interesting and I wasn't aware of them. I wonder how they get around the issue of low ventilation in very tight rooms and the possibility of producing CO if the oxygen supply became depleted--some sort of catalytic burner maybe. I wonder how much bang you'd get from a passive system such as skylights and a black floor? ....

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drcjv.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 334 southeastern pa
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2004-01-17          74272


Lakeman look on the tractor supply website (www.mytscstore.com) under home improvements then heating.They have several modals and sizes. I am very pleased with the 2 that I have they are a very easy and inexpensive way to heat an area. ....

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treeman
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 251 Wisconsin
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2004-01-17          74281


I also have a two car attached garage that is isulated. I installed a 30,000 BTU forced air propane heater that hangs from the ceiling. I'm very happy with it. It's fairly quiet and gives me all the heat I need. ....

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HuckMeat
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 121 Colorado
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2004-01-25          74980


I'm building my house right now, and putting pex in the slab as mentioned in an earlier post. One really nice advantage of radiant heat, if setup right (besides a warm floor when you are under a tractor or car!) is that there is no open flame. You can work with epoxy, or perhaps give that small part a quick spray. In my dads house, he is installing a downdraft fan, and with the flameless radiant heat (assuming your heat sources is located elsewhere, and you are simply circulating hot water through the floor) he can paint cars all winter.

For those DIY, you can have a design done and a quote from www.radiantec.com, and they offer solar intertie kits too. I am currently deciding between these guys and a local guy who would supply a ground source heat pump. ....

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grinder
Join Date: Oct 2003
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2004-01-25          74983


Huckmeat
Good handle!
Have you explored the solar aspect,with the pex in your slab?
Wondering what you thought,as I am in the planning stages of another house and found that(solar) appealing.
The price of oil and gas is so unstable for long term
planning. ....

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Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma
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2004-01-25          74989


In our old house, we had a Rinnai ventless radiant heater. It heated our whole house and used 'very' little propane. This would be ideal for a garage also. ....

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HuckMeat
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 121 Colorado
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2004-01-25          75031


grinder,

Yep! With propane and other fuel sources doing what they are, it's pretty easy to justify a little extra up front (roll it into the mortgage up front) for better heating costs.

I'm looking at the radian solar stuff (from the radian tech guys) - I'm in colorado, and with the sun we get, a well designed solar system, even just pre-heating a condensing variable flame boiler like a munchkin, would really cut heating costs.

I'm also getting a bid on Geothermal - I've got a guy here who will supply and install the ground loop and the ground source heat pump (which will also provide AC) as well as my radiant heat water and pre-heat domestic hot water. He will do the radiant design, the HVAC design, install the geothermal equipment and ground loop, and supply me with all the materials and a detailed design, along with a week of his lead technicians time. I do the install of the HVAC/radiant per his design, and I end up with a system that doesn't need any fossil fuels, other than the electricity. For electric, I'm going to put in the grid intertie, so that my surplus electricity is sold back when I'm not using it. A small array (2800W) ought to cover most of the heating costs, if not all. We get 300+ days per year of sun, so the solar hot water is still probably first on my list, and cheaper.

I think you can get quite a solar hot water system for 3-5k. That type of system would provide all domestic hot water, and probably a good portion of your heating costs. I'll post an update when I get more info. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-01-25          75034


Huckmeat, what brand of geothermal heat pump are you looking at? I would recommend against WaterFurnace equipment - ours has been nothing but trouble and support is piss poor. ....

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HuckMeat
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 121 Colorado
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2004-01-25          75036


Kwschumm,

Wow! Please tell me about your experiences! I was looking at the waterfurnace synergy3 system, with 6 150' grouted bores for my ground loop. The dealer has a very good reputation, but if the product has problems, I need to go elsewhere. What kind of things have you run into? Are the support issues local or the waterfurnace guys?

Funny thing - It is very hard to find information on water->water ground source heat pumps on the net... Mostly just sales poop.

Let me know, I want details! Here on in person, john at wyosip dot com.

Thanks,
John ....

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kwschumm
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Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-01-25          75038


I'll email you my experiences.
....

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lbrown59
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 931 First Organized Permanent Settlement In The Northwest Territory.
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2004-09-19          96822



Since I'm leary of an open flame in an enclosure housing petroleum fueled vehicles I'm going with and outside installed unit that is both a furnace and an air conditioner built into one forced air system.

Has anyone here used this set up?

....

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lbrown59
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 931 First Organized Permanent Settlement In The Northwest Territory.
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2004-09-19          96823


Anyone got any suggestions on installing a heated driveway? ....

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