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Forums > Active Threads > Home and Garden > Barns Pole Barns

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cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1303 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
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2000-12-30          22933


Well the time has finally come when I can build a barn on my property. I am looking at a 40'x60' building with 14' ceiling and a 16'x40' enclosed shop area within the main building. I have thought of skylights and floor drains along with a seperate electric service and a storage area above the enclosed shop for boxes and whatever. This will probably be a once in a lifetime event for me and I would like to do it right. I plan on spending time there when I retire in a few years (right after it is paid for). I sure would appreciate any advice from those with experience with such things. Thanks to you all, Cutter.

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RCH
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2000-12-30          22936


Cutter, a neighbor picked up at an auction a car/truck hoist for $ 1600 that straddles the vehicle and lifts from the sides. I'd make sure the heighth would accommadate something like that. Also,220 volts,phone, water and propane are mighty handy in a workshop. A blacktop access on the southern side of a building soaks up those winter sun rays helping with snow / ice removal. A truss 2d story floor can eleminate posts on the first floor. Eight or even nine foot double door is nice for getting big things in at an angle to store things off to the sides. Also consider burying an electrical line between the house and barn/workshop so a portable generator can use propane to feed the house electricity with out all that noise. RCH ....

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cutter
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2000-12-30          22938


All good ideas. What do you mean by a double door? I am installing a 12x12 over head in the main part of the building and a nine by seven or possibly larger for the shop area. I am probably going to put an additional 12x12 slider on the end of the storage area as well. Also, I like the idea of the sub-feed to the house. Currently my generator is in my attached garage (noisy). Thanks. ....

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RCH
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2000-12-31          22951


cutter, by a double door I meant a 16 or 18' garage door; they seal up nice if adjusted properly,they lend themselves to remote openers and they are great for working on machinary half in the shop, especially when welding fumes, pressure washing or water, painting or blowing dust. I'd sugggest a serious REVERSIBLE exhaust fan to save your lungs.
For a shop within a larger building consider insulating it with Icynene,which is sprayed on walls and ceiling. It is a high R insulating material so a 4" inside wall is enough, it adds to the structural integrity of the building, it seals the shop off from the rest of the building for better ventilation and dust control. People love radient floor heat in a shop.
I would start thinking now about how & where you're going to hang tools on the walls, the placement of a compressor and outlets, electrical outlets inclunding 110 and 220 volts, inside and outside walls; water faucets.
Re water, use 3/4" pipe and 3/4" ball valves to preserve the 3/4" diameter in the building. Run a one inch supply to the building if it is any distance. you will forever enjoy the benefits of the Pouissville-Hagen equation where the volume (flow) is proportional to the 4th power of the radius( a 19 % increase of the radius doubles the flow asumming the pressure, viscosity and round configuration of the pipe are constant- throw in a friction factor for length, elbows etc).You can get a hydrant the has an electrical heat probe about 15" long that you can control with a thermostat. Plumb any exposed water lines so you can drain with gravity or,since compressed air is available, blow them out.
There are three resources that have been invaluable to me regarding constuction product and techniques. http://www.taunton.com/fh/ is the url for FINE HOMEBUILDING which is readily available at any comprehensive newstand. A favorite is THE JOURNAL OF LIGHT CONSTRUCTION, url http://www.jlconline.com/ If you subscribe to JLC pretend you are in the building trades ; they have this notion that are only " for the trade". FARM SHOW at http://www.farmshow.com/ is a unique publication with no advertising in the print version with many shop ideas plus a plethora of ideas, inventions, techniques out of farm workshops. There are also candid evaluations of products (hence no advertising) that you want find anywhere except CONSUMERS REPORT. I remember several months ago someone here had a Canadien goverment site with plans for barns/workshops that seemed pretty good as a starting point.
One thing I found for sure was that many builders and subcontractors were NOT knowledgable about new construction products and often where unaware of well known failures of products. I'd be leery of the low bidder. It's important to have a contractor that not threatened by a knowledgale consumer and is established enough so that sub contractors will do a good job so the'll get subsequent jobs. Your part is to have good plans without any changes once you get started and show up twice a day to check on things. To enjoy the experience put it out of head that it's costing $2000/ day! RCH ....

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tom
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2001-01-01          22973


RCH,
I am impressed with you ideas on a building. You have obviously given this much thought. I am not build a building yet, but will keep all of these sugestions in mind in the future. The only thing I might add is a shower/lav.

tom ....

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Roger L.
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2001-01-01          22978


Those are all good ideas! I've already got them copied down to think about when I build my next barn. Here are a couple of more: If you are having any stalls or turnout pens then be sure to put them on the downhill side of the building for drainage. And a couple of concrete floor ideas. If you are putting in a concrete floor it isn't much extra to put an old fashioned "grease pit" in one area with a concrete stairway leading down to it. If you work under anything this is real handy. A recessed lip holds the parallel 2x6s level with the floor when the pit is not in use.
Another thing that you can put in when pouring a floor is some of that plastic tubing made for heating a floor with hot water. The plastic pipe is real cheap, but has to be put in during the pour. I was at a friend's shop with has a heated concrete floor....heats the whole shop with a hot water heater and a small pump. Very, very, nice heat. ....

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RCH
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2001-01-02          22986


Rodger, I grew up with 2 "grease pits" in a Gulf station in the Detroit area. 1) make sure there are no drainage problems or put a sump pump in. 2)The width gets tricky with narrow tractors, vans etc. Around 1950 I remember dropping a Crosley car into the pit with makeshift planks to narrow the footprint. I'd suggest a rectangular pit using the lip and plank coverage you suggested situated so you can put the vehicle over it long ways or cross ways. 3) I can tell you from experience, crawling in and out of that pit to get tools gets old fast.
Putting animal stalls on the downhill side is a great suggestion. Also a floor drain really helps keep a workshop clean, both from ice and snow on vehicles and cleaning up. However, code wise its a no-no because of the possible contamination of the enviorment with hydrocarbons. ....

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cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1303 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
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2001-01-02          22994


These ideas are great. Thanks a million to you all. I was unaware the drains would be illegal. There must be a method to install them that will pass code. Possibly an oil trap or something, I will check with local zoning. My water will not be installed until the town runs it down my road next year (hopefully). In the mean time, I plan on installing some empty conduit for future use as well as a capped 1" h2o line before the cement is poured. I am curious about the floor heat. Is there someplace I can go to see plans as to how much and what type of plastic is needed as well as a diagram for the installation of the water tank heater? ....

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RCH
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2001-01-02          22996


cutter, either in FINE HOMEBUILDING or J OF LIGHT CONSTRUCTION was an article of how to use a hot water tank as a heat source for radient floor system by making a return loop to the tank using the clean-out faucet at the bottom of the tank, a circulating pump and controls. There have been several articles about exactly what kind plastic hose to use ( it's called PEX), how to lay out the pattern , the connectors to use and the controls and pumps. With a dedicated " outside" radient floor heating system usually they run an antifreeze solution so it won't freeze up and bust something; a system utilizing a hot water tank would preclude that or you would lose the hot water advantage.I know there is a relatively new combined water heater and area heater using forced air but having a heated slab AND hot water would be divine. You would have to pour the slab over 2" styrofoam and put styrofoam around the perimeter so you're not trying to heat the ground. You may want a well insulated little closet for the water tank and above ground tubing and machinary. ....

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Roger L.
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2001-01-02          22999


RCH...on the system that I saw, the hotwater heater was dedicated to heating the floor system only. I don't know if he had any antifreeze in it or not. His comment was that a using a regular hot water heater for the purpose was much less expensive than any other type of heater system.
As for the drains and legality or not...I don't know, and these things change as treatment fashions come and go. I do know that the next floor that I pour will have all the options: Floor heating, drain pipe (not connected), electric power in conduits, a grease pit (easy to cover if you don't want it), a 6" vertical steel pipe down in the ground for a lift cylinder, and several anchor points for frame straightening and generally tying things down. Plus an extra series of large plastic pipe...probably at least 4" diameter...that is just capped off in case I think of something else I want to run under the floor. All of this is very inexpensive to put in "just in case". The reinforced slab for my shop right now that has none of these things. It is just a chunk of concrete with no options. Strong, though. ....

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jarrett morgan
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2001-01-02          23002


I don't know where your from but . check into morton buildings . we've had one since 1964 . they know what pole barns are about. www.mortonbuildings.com best buildings around!!!!! ....

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cutter
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2001-01-02          23003


New York, and I have seen them around here. I had completely forgotten about them. I currently have two estimates on the way...and will try Morton as well. I love all the under the floor ideas I have read here. This forum is priceless. ....

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Bruce Pirger
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2001-01-02          23004


If you use google.com to search on radiant floor heating you will find tons of info about it. I plan to place tubing in my floors. Far as I can tell, the nicest way to heat any building. I know they (inspectors) gave my brother some trouble about his drains...and he had to build an oil/grease trap. We are in New York state.

Glad to hear Roger suggested the "pit". My father dug one of these be hand in his existing garage...and it is wonderful. To build one from the get-go...now that would be sweet. Maybe an outlet in the pit?

Bruce ....

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RCH
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2001-01-02          23006


Here is a link at the THE JOURNAL OF LIGHT CONSTRUCTION re hot water tank based radient heating system. It has no provision for a hot water tap. Here is the url for cut & paste if the link doen't work ( I think the link puts in 2 "http://" if you're not carefull and corrupts the address if you use cut & paste to transfer the url to " Include a Link URL". I'd appreciate the Webmaster's comments)

http://www.jlconline.com/jlc/archive/energy/water_heater_heat/page3.html ....


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RCH
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2001-01-02          23007


Actually this URL starts at the beginning of the hot water tank as a heat source discussion on THE J OF LIGHT CONSTRUCTION site
http://www.jlconline.com/jlc/archive/energy/water_heater_heat/index.html ....


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Murf
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2001-01-02          23008


Being one with 'creature comforts' in mind, I would suggest while you're on the topic of plumbing, you plan on putting in a washroom. When I built my shop I included a small washroom (sink, toilet, and shower stall) best idea I ever had, not only is the 'walk' shorter in cold weather, getting cleaned up BEFORE leaving the shop is a LOT nicer. Besides, 'she who does the cleaning' will appreciate it a lot too!! There are a few other things you may want to plan ahead for too, extra footings (under the slab) or anchor bolts for things like a crane, lift, or anvil, a pocket in the floor with a very stout eye-bolt for chaining things to the floor, invaluable for many tasks such as repairs or fabricating, or straightening things (handy in case of tornadoes too, just kidding!) Also include a couple extra pieces of conduit from the 'panel' area out beyond the pad for future use, putting them in now is nothing compared to what it would be like later. Best of luck. ....

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RCH
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2001-01-02          23009


Here is a link to the kind of vehicle hoist I was refering to. I see it takes a 12' ceiling. http://www.homestead.com/advequip/files/y2kspecs.jpg ....


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cutter
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2001-01-02          23010


Some good ideas Murf. I like the bathroom thought but will have to settle for just the plumbing for now, the building is too far from the house to connect to my septic system. I MAY sell my current house in time and build a smaller one back near where the barn will be, some 300 feet or so to the rear. Or maybe not. Moving the building closer is something I have to talk to the pro's about, I picked the highest point but could possibly have some dozer work done to move part of the hill (and then watch the cement floor crack as the fill settles). We have too much snow for me to be walking around trying to guess elevations, so that will be a call made in the future. ....

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Roger L.
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2001-01-03          23041


Yep, you get the idea: If you can't build the bathroom at this time then that's OK. But don't let that stop you from putting the plumbing into the slab. Same for the hot water heat. ....

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Murf
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2001-01-03          23043


Just because you are not close enough to the existing facilites, or don't wish to build a second system, does NOT mean you cannot have facilites in the shop. In most localities it is perfectly legal to have only a 'holding tank' which is, as the name suggests, merely a large tank buried in the yard, when it is full you call a contractor to pump it out, same as you do your septic tank. Also, a decent set of gutters will probably give you more than enough water to fill a buried cistern and suit your uses. A neighbour of mine did this about 5 years ago when he built his shop, in his case it was because he did not want to cut down a stand of trees that were where the tile field would have had to go. While he only has a sink & toilet in the shop, he has only had to pump it out once per year so far. He recently built a 'urinal' out of some stainless steel with a pipe which goes into a leach tank buried next to the shop, which he figures will save a little fluid capacity in the tank, and a little water from the storage tank. Occaisionally the water storage tank runs out in the coldest months, but he refills it from a water truck for very little money. Best of luck. ....

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cutter
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2001-01-03          23046


I will be in touch with zoning tommorrow re: the holding tank. Great idea. The Morton link lets you play with the colours. Having too much fun. ....

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RCH
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2001-01-03          23066


Here is another good discussion on radiant heatig. Page 5 reviews the technical aspects of the various tubings including PEX
http://www.taunton.com/fh/features/materials/hydronicfloor/1.htm ....


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cutter
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2001-01-04          23086


Thank you RCH. I am saving all these postings until I get a chance to sort through them. Checked on the floor drains, OK in my area. The holding tank is OK too, as long as it is "silent". ....

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TomG
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2001-01-05          23092


By the codes around here, urine can't be put into a leeching pit. We demolished the house at our camp this summer in favour of a construction trailer. Nobody in their right mind would want to continue using the existing septic system, which incorporates a buried car I've heard. We put in a composting toilet and built a 1000 liter-per-day gray-water leeching pit. The toilet has an electric evaporator and gets by codes because a liquid overflow line is optional. So far, the toilet works OK, although keeping a good composting activity going is a little tricky and requires at least weekly use. If a shop toilet is going to used frequently, it might be a good idea to compare costs of a holding tank and pumping with those of a composting toilet. ....

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Murf
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2001-01-05          23096


I am rather surprised that the code would not allow a leach pit, since in every jurisdiction I can find a 'pit privy', an outhouse to everyone else, is perfectly legal. BTW, I forgot to mention that in a lot of areas the most populr way to deal with holding tank is to dig the hole and form it into the buildings footings and floor directly below the washroom, with a 'clean-out' in the floor of the washroom itself. This way the yard does not need to be disturbed, snow plowed, or any digging done in order to get the line in to pump out the tank when full. Most of these installations incorporate an indicator, usually a float type guage, to let you when it's time for a pump-out. Best of luck. ....

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Larry Nixon
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2001-01-05          23105


Cutter: I have been following your thread for a few days and I thought I would give my 2 cents worth! I built a new pole barn 16 years ago and I went thru the same eperience as you are. I drew up my own plans and I went to about 4 different companys, I ended up hiring a crew of Amish and it took them 7 days to build me a 32x64 pole barn with 14 ft ceilings.They did my concrete floor , put up a metal ceiling with 6 in of insulation , plumbing for a bathroom,2 floor drains,conduit in floor for my electrical and also laid up a chimmeny.I work along side of them and I really enjoyed the experience. They are quailty carpenters and very honest people to deal with. My total labor for the barn was $2,200, Each man would give you a time slip at the end of the week and you paid each indivdual, The hourly rate was fro $3.00 to $6.00 @hr.I have 2 12x12 overhead insulated doors with openors on them, in 1 of your threads you mentioned a sliding door and I had one to start with but they do not seal up tigh and in the winter you have to shovel snow to open them.I have a bathroom with a stool and sink and shower, I also installed a on demand hot water heater.I also put my wiring in conduit and have air line thruout the barn.I live in Northern Indiana and I dont know if you have Amish in N.Y. area. I backfeed a generator thru my welder circuit to feed my house. I run my septic line from the barn into the house septic. I have a partition down the middle of my barn so I dont have to heat the whole thing. You can build 3 new house in your life time and each one you would change after a while and a barn is the smae way. Good luck Larry ....

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steve arnold
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2001-01-05          23108


Cutter, I have been breathing and sleeping pole barns for the last 11 months.
Morton Buildings just finished my 54'x90'x14 footer, it is the cadillac of pole
barns but also cost as much. I was totally sold on the in-slab radiant heat early on into the plans. A local wholesaler sells Maxxon products for this kind
of heat and will design the system for free as will others. I am choosing them
mostly because they have the cheapest bpex tubing around. I also chose to install a head inside mostly for party traffic. When Penske bought into the Kmart auto centers around Detroit, he cleaned out the least profitable branches
and i ended up with one of above ground hoists for $800 keep an eye out for deals. I am 30 right now so i figured out what i have to store and doubled it. Good luck. ....

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RCH
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2001-01-05          23109


Bifold Doors
Since we are seriously talking about a shop I am wondering has anyone had any experince with bifold doors. See the link or cut & paste. http://www.bifold.com The do not encroach an head room so a 12' car lift could be close to the opening. The also look like they would provide an "awaning" for sun and rain. Also no shoveling in order to open with snow. Can you have a window in them, do they seal good for a heated space, etc ? ....


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steve arnold
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2001-01-05          23111


I dont see anything wrong with bi-folds, Morton puts Wilson brand doors in their
hangar buildings and those can be insulated. they are especially handy if you need to put a 24' wide combine in a 30' wide building. ....

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cutter
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2001-01-05          23112


Funny you should mention Amish. They no longer reside close enough to utililize, however one of my estimates is coming from the Martin Builders, a Mennonite family. They have done buildings for several folks I know and are excellent carpenters as well. I have settled upon a dividing wall and ceiling in the shop area and a bathroom as well. One thing I missed that was just mentioned is the burried air lines. I do like the idea of backfeeding the electric for emergencies as well. The building will most likely be drawing it's power from a different road (read circuit) than my house, which may sometimes solve the outage problem there without the use my generator. It seems our circuit goes down frequently. The reason I was going to install a 12x14 slider on the back side close to the end is to use it for entering and depositing my 10'x30' used fishing boat I plan on buying when I retire. It will have to be placed on blocks for winter storage and there will be very little wiggle room when the marina brings it up on their trailer. It will go straight in and off, which would block the large overhead door for further axcess. The ones I have looked at in my price range are around 10-15 years old and in need of a LOT of work. Being inside would be a Godsend. And that lift idea is great. Maybe I need to add 15 more feet of barn!!!! ....

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Bird Senter
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2001-01-05          23117


Cutter, keep in mind one fact of human nature; we fill whatever space is available. Making that barn 15' bigger still won't be big enough. LOL ....

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Rick Seymour
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2001-01-05          23120


Cutter, make the barn bigger now. When my wife & I bought our house & lot 4 years ago (5 acres) it came with a 34 x 60 pole barn w/elec & H20. I am no longer allowed in as it is her dog training facility. Soooo, this fall I added a 16 x 23 addition to one end for our TC29D, implements, yard tractor, utility trailer etc. Without a cement floor it cost $4,900. Do it now as it will cost less!

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2001-01-06          23129


Murf: You're probably aware that the codes governing septic systems etc. were radically changed in Ontario a few years ago. I'm not sure that all the newly privatized health inspectors quite have their minds around the new codes, or maybe the new codes aren't quite consistent. As far as I know, a biffy is still legal. In the original code revision, a new biffy could be installed provided there was no pressure water on the property. I believe that stipulation was removed just last year, but there is still strong encouragement to put in a new code, and very expensive, septic system. The Director of the District Health unit had to approve our application for a gray water leeching pit rather than a septic system for our camp (one or the other is required). We have a composting toilet, but as far as I know we could have built a biffy instead. The health inspector was very definite that that the liquid over-flow line from the toilet couldn't go into the pit. I think the distinction is that human waste and gray water can't be mixed. Any liquid over-flow would be more than just urine, but I suppose the idea is that a little waste and a lot of gray water has greater potential for contaminating ground-water than a well built biffy. ....

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cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1303 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
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2001-01-06          23133


Well now the boss says build it as big as I can. She has visions of storage space dancing in her head. I don't see it turning into a kennel (my wife doesn't have the time for any animals other than me), but knowing women as I do, some $$ now may save a battle later. I just started drawing the plans for conduit etc. under the cement floor. This will be so much easier and better thanks to the ideas from everyone. I have contacted an individual re: purchasing the materials for the floor heat for the shop and forced air possibly for the infrequent times I would heat the machine storage area. Now I sit back and wait for the first estimate to come in. ....

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turfman
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 97 midwest
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2001-01-07          23166


Hey Bird Senter you said it right. 20 years ago I had a 30x60 building and a 24x36 garage. Had enough room for all I had and more. Now I have the same 30x60 building added a 30ft loft, a 40x80 Morton, 40X30 garage that is 2 story, and a big garage for the wife. All of them are now full of equipment that is essential to the operation. LOL. I thought at the time that I could never fill up the area. Now we are back to moving things around to get at things. I do wish I had a pit. This would come in very handy. All the equipment needs oil changes enough that I would do a better job if I had the pit.

In the heat department, I was surprised no one mentioned a waste oil heater. I have used one and it works nicely for getting rid of the used oil and heating for a minimum cost as an auxiliary. I don’t have enough oil for a primary heater but I use it to take the chill out of the shop when I work there in the winter.

Anyway, I can say this, Morton makes a nice building. If you talk to a sales rep, I doubt that there is a design feature discussed here that they have not built. I would highly recommend at least a 16 ft and even more an 18 ft overhead type door. It is really nice for getting in and out of, especially if you ever use the door end for a 2 unit parking space. Our building is great. The 30x60 is a custom built unit and to be honest I wish we had gone with a Morton for the money. But it was a long time ago. Hope you have a good experience with what ever you go with.
....

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cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1303 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
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2001-01-07          23171


Thanks for the input Turfman. I had thought of the waste oil heater however I don't have enough oil to make it worthwhile. I am going as big as I can afford now. One drawback for me is that I will have to fill extensively for every additional foot of length. Just by eyeballing the sight, it appears to drop at least two feet in fourty. I am wondering if I should fill after the construction to avoid having to purchase so much gravel. The flatter ground is too far from the house to build there. Any ideas would be helpful. I think the gravel is better than the free ditching fill the town gives away, it will help keep the building dry. ....

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Roger L.
Join Date: Jun 1999
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2001-01-07          23172


I've been around one of those waste oil heaters. Boy! Talk about hot! They sure work well. I'd guess you want some sort of heater....or at least the option of having some heat. A good compromise would be to build in the insulated thimble where the hot stove pipe goes through the wall or the roof...or both. Then just cover the hole with a "block-off" or stove hat. Once the insulated thimble is in place, then hooking up any type of stove is an easy. If you don't know what stovepipe diameter that you are going to need, make it for a 6" inside diameter pipe. That is the most common large size. ....

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cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1303 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
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2001-01-07          23173


I am going to try the floor heat in the shop and forced air propane for the rare times I'll be heating the storage area. I plan on leaving it set just above freezing. The stoves won't pass code around here. I just took one out of my 24x32 garage due to the insurance conflicts. Putting propane in that as well. ....

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turfman
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 97 midwest
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2001-01-08          23192


You want to talk about fill....I had to raise the whole 40x80 5 feet to get out of a flood plain. I knew it of course ahead of time, the cost was fairly high.
My shed is continueing to mutate to the needs of the times. I add and I take away. Yours will too. Enjoy the project. ....

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larry watkins
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2001-01-08          23209


Adding to Murf's earlier comment regarding eye bolts in the floor: To prevent bumping into or tripping over eyebolts, sink them below floor level by placing them in a section of four inch pipe set into the floor before the pour. This allows you to padlock down valuable equipment while also covering the holes with flush-to-floor caps. If security is a significant issue I've seen ocean shipping containers (heavy steel) built into barns and shops to provide near safe-like security for tools and equipment. They can be purchased all over the country at reasonable prices. ....

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Rick Seymour
Join Date: Feb 2002
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2001-01-08          23211


RE: eye bolts in the floor.

The guy we bought from (he built the pole barn) was a car nut & had 4 "V" shaped plates in the floor (I think they are standard for auto body shops) that he used for frame straightening. If the idea is for straightening things, it is better/stronger than eye bolts and is flush with the floor.
....

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RegL
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2001-01-18          23505


I think i would check building codes befor installing a floor pit.I believe they have outlawed for safty reasons,gas fumes being heaver than air.Maybe it's ok if you install some kind of ventilation system.Reg ....

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Aaron E. Zimmermann
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2001-01-19          23529


I built a 60' x 40' Morton building within the last year in Northern Texas. I grew up with Morton in the midwest and their quality is of the highest standards. They will be anywhere from 20% - 35% higher than most but it is worth it. They had mine up in 6 business days after promising 14! Crews are top notch guys.
For heating, I recommend in floor water heat. Two of my friends in Illinois have airplane hangers (80' x 100' clearspan Morton buildings) heated with floor water only and it is incredible how warm the building is. One place the hoses in the sand under the concrete floor while the other placed the hoses in the 5" concrete. Both work good with each boiler only at 50% of capacity. I chose not to put in floor heat in Texas since our cold season is nothing compared to the north. I am not an expert on floor / radiant heat but after seeing what my two buddies did, I am sold on it if I ever move to a colder climate.

az ....

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cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1303 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
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2001-01-19          23534


Thanks for the input Aaron. I am seriously considering Morton at this time. I was impressed by the video they sent me as well. My only question at this point is whether to go 12' or 14' ceiling heigth. ....

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Aaron E. Zimmermann
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2001-01-19          23536


I have always thought the higher the better. It's not like it's going to blow over in a high wind or cost that much more to heat or cool if insulated properly. The real cost is the 2' in wall height and little bit of insulation or finishing material used. Send me your e-mail address and I will send you a link to my building on the Morton site if they still have it archived. My e-mail is "az@netscape.com" ....

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steve arnold
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2001-01-22          23567


Hey Cutter, you wont regret getting a Morton, just dont believe everything
they tell you on the video. When choosing a height, don't forget morton's
vaulted trusses allow higher doors on the ends of the builings than on the
sides, for example you can drive a 13' foot truck through the middle of a
12' building. Also, doors on the ends are less expensive than on the sides
because you wont need load bearing headers. ....

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cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1303 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
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2001-01-22          23583


I didn't realize that was the case with those trusses. Nice to know, I wonder how much extra they are? I'm still waiting for a price from everyone I have talked to . Must be the economy is still roaring. ....

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Tim Connolly
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2002-01-11          34424


We're starting a 36' X 48' barn next week. The foundation has been in the ground since November. Since my largest carpentry project to date is a fishing shack I'm having a couple of builders I know do it.
If you are interested you can see a photo of the design of building we're doing at www.abbarns.com Click on stall barns and look for barn photo 2h.The difference is we're using architechural roof shingles and 6 inch cedar clapboards for siding.
The shape is New England style with 12 foot walls and a 24 foot loft.
We're going to try to make the cupola "functional" with an inside access and a shooting bench to look out over our back fields for deer.
Hpoe to have it all wrapped up by April

Tim Connolly
Maine ....

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Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2002-01-11          34441


Cutter;
I just completed a barn that is of the same dimensions as the one you describe.
Unlike everyone else I made the structure from insulated concrete forms (ICF) from Arxx. My material costs are around 20 K with insulation, plumping, and insulated doors.
I put the structure on a pre exsisting slab and only poured up sections. I have a fireplace in the garage from the prevous structure and have made a bath room and kitchen area. The idea dog house.
ICF blocks are easy to assemble you can work on your own with extra help only needed on pour day. The other advantage is that the structure is insulated R50.
I have not read through the full posting but radiant heat is good if you want to heat all the time. It will take days to heat up the slab. Use of a hot water tank is good if on gas and gas is inexpensive but remember you get nothing for free. It will take a number of BTUs to heat the barn and radiant heat does not reduce the heating requirements that much. With out careful control of ground water under the slab and insulation it can cost more.
I have an out side wood heater which heats water. It is easy to maintain and works like a normal hot water heater off thermostats. This is an option but again the question is are you going to heat it all the time. I am looking for radiant hot water heat unit I can hang up in the barn and blow heated air from the wood burner when needed.
Another less expensive option is to use a geothermal unit water to water if slab heated. I set up on in the house for ~ 10K heating and cooling. The base units are as low as 3.5K.
For the roof I used steel chicken house trusses and mounted these into the cement walls. In this area wind storms are a problem. The roof is very ridgid.
As with any new construction I made mistakes that cost money and time. If I did it over again I would spend less of both.
E-mail me if you want to see some pictures. ....


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cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1303 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
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2002-01-11          34444


Sounds impressive Peters! I would like to see some pictures. My shell is done and the doors are on, but this one you are building sounds interesting. ....

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cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1303 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
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2002-01-11          34445


Very nice Tim. I did take a look and I am sure it will look fantastic with the New England setting it will reside in! ....

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cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1303 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
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2002-01-12          34465


Dennis, I am trying to post a reply. Seem to be having problems. ....

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cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1303 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
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2002-01-12          34467


Never mind Dennis, works fine now. My mistake, sorry. ....

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farmhouse
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 15 East Texas
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2002-09-15          42431


Cutter, I'm not sure of your location but by the postings I would say not in the South. However, I'm building a barn at the present time and I'm having the plumber put in an outdoor shower. It may never get hot enough in your location but I used to live in Fairfield County in Connecticut and we had some of those days where one would have been nice. I'm certainly going to use one in East Texas. ....

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cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1303 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
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2002-09-16          42458


Well Farmhouse, you are correct, I am in upstate NY. The shower idea is something I have kicked around and what I plan on doing is installing one on the back of the house. I have a deck there just abaft of my inground pool. After a hard day's work, I will strip off the dirty clothes and use the hose to wash before I jump in. That works fine if the sun is out and has heated the 150' coil, nice and warm until it is used up. I can easily run the shower from the laundry room to the deck and build an attractive wood enclosure. The deck is 6" off the ground so I don't even need to install a drain, it will run between the slats, kind of how my old cottage was built in the 40's for the grey water. The barn pictures are on this site if you are interested. ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-09-16          42471


I remember wash sheds when I was a kid visiting my farming cousins. Wash-sheds were standard. We build a 10' x 10' wash shed last summer because the 40' construction trailer at our camp is too small for a shower.

The shed is on stilts so water will drain into our raised gray-water pit. In our case that will keep inspector Bob happier if he comes visiting, but the issue may not be relevant for everybody.

At the moment, we're using a large laundry tub and heat well water with a propane cooker (boy those cookers sure heat water fast). I haven't figured out if it's worth putting a gravity fed solar heated tank overhead, but I do have to figure how to slope the floor so it completely drains. With or without a shower, wash sheds are truly wonderful things to have. Just wonder around inside and splash cool or hot water around everywhere, which ever is best. I'd recommend building one to most anybody. After it was done, the guy who did most of the carpentry said ‘Boy I sure we’d build one of these at our camp.’ The guys get a little ripe towards the end of moose season I guess.
....

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cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000
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2002-09-18          42593


That is a great camp idea Tom. I am leaning towards a large shower stall sized area with a seat and shower head. This will serve as a changing room for pool guests that don't want to go in the house as well as a way for me to rinse off before jumping in. I plan on building it when I remodel the deck, hopefully next year but who knows. I want it to look attractive and to enhance the pool/deck area when completed. ....

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