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ijcq350
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 7 Pearl River, NY
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2009-09-27          165971


Hi Im new to the forum, as well as the CUT class of machines. I just placed the order yesterday for my 2305 with a belly mower and front mount snow blower. I have other machines, but i was wondering will i really need tire chains in the winter on this machine with the 4WD?

I'm sure i will have more questions but i will have to wait till they deliver it first.

Thanks Ken

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earthwrks
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2009-09-27          165976


As far as tire chains and whether you'll need them can change with the weather and temperature--literally. You may need them if it's icy out, but if it warms up just a few degrees and you're down to exposed dirt or pavement, likely no. And it depends on the type of tires you're using--turfs are known for being better in some, but not all snow and especially on ice. I use strictly R-4 industrials on my stuff. Since you're using a snow blower, you won't be pushing per se material so traction isn't a priority--unless you have hills or inclines.

If you're using the chains for traction on ice that has been plowed, you might consider using a northern off-roader's trick (ice racing) and that is using 1/2" hex-head sheet metal screws--one in each lug. A better product is a screw that looks like a sheet metal screw but is hard-plated and hardened and the head is dished out leaving two sharp biting edges. A cordless drill and 5/16" bit is all you need to install and remove them. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2009-09-27          165979


First off, welcome to the board Ken!

As Jeff (earthwerks) hinted at already, traction is more to do with conditions than anything else. Turf tires may be great on ice, but they don't do much for deep snow. Industrials are ok in wet snow, but get worse fast as the temperatures drop, forget about ice with them.

The bottom line is you will have to do a little experimenting with your machine in your settings.

I would point out however, a CUT is not the heavy beast a 'farm tractor' is so traction is more a function of proper ballast than tires, chains or anything else except operator skill. I've seen more "stuck" machines (as well as cars & trucks) driven out of the 'problem' than I can count.

Feel free to ask away, the only dumb question is the one that goes unasked.

Best of luck. ....

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ijcq350
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2009-09-27          165980


Thanks Guys, I am definatly ready to experiment, I have all ready read all the owners manuals and i have no clue when it will be delivered. I will definatly have to try out the screws in the treads, because being able to loose the chains would help get me more snow accounts.

As far as ballast I ordered it with wheel weights, but i would like to get a weight box(or make one). The dealer also said they dont really do calcium filling any more they use a biodegradable substance, any recomendations on tire fill?

Thanks again! ....

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earthwrks
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2009-09-27          165984


No cal chloride? Whaaat? Cal C is used in EVERYTHING--it's edible--in fact it's in my jar of pickles!

(me thinks) Maybe THEY don't use it because they sell a different system with better profit margins. Just a guess. And I'm sure the "dealers" here are going to read me the riot act. So be it LOL

Personally, I've never used any tire filler. I get too many punctures doing commercial work to worry about breaking down a tire and cleaning out the mess AND having to replace it every time. Just my opinion.

Another thought on chains or screws on tires: either will leave gouges or scratches on pavement if that's a concern.

And you reading the owner manual... my collegues in my "other life" as an automotive technical writer would be pleased--and surprised--to hear that! We used to joke we were paid well to write and produce something no one read (a complete manual can cost a car company $400,000)! In fact just last week, Chrysler announced they will no longer put hard-copy owner manuals in vehicles. They're now on disk. ....

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ijcq350
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2009-09-27          165985


Ha Ha idk thats just what the dealer told me, i dont know much about CaCl filling at work i deal with foam filling for telehandlers and man lifts.

Some "city" people are very picky about how their driveway looks, i could care less.

I never knew it cost that much for an owners manual, maybe I have read some of your work then, because i read all the paperwork on equipment that cost this much. ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
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2009-09-27          165986


Ken; Welcome to the board. I use R4's and have never had chains on a compact, farm tractors yes. Chains are OK, but a pain to put on and rough riding to boot.
You mention buying or building a weight box. In my opinion they are a waste of money when a bit more will buy you a box scraper for the three point that serves as ballast and as a real handy tool for moving soil around too.
I don't have a front mount blower so I don't know how heavy they are in comparison to a front end loader, but I'd think a box scraper would balance your rig just fine. ....

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ijcq350
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2009-09-27          165987


I have heard of people using a tiller for ballast, it just never crossed my mind to do that with a box blade, and that is one of the implements i want to add I will have to look into the cost differences. I know the weight box is $210. Im sure between wheel weights and a box blade it would be more than ample weight in the back. ....

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earthwrks
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2009-09-27          165988


Not to throw a wet (or frozen) blanket on your new purchase...

I cringe when I think of taking my stuff out in the winter to make a few dollars. We use salt here on the roads and it eats everything--removes the pretty and protective plating from nuts, bolts, fittings, hose ends, and finds its way into every crack, scratch, and crevice. Wanna make the paint peel on something...expose it to salty winter weather.

As we drive down the roads here one can actually can taste it in the air, and burns my eyes. Some roadway shoulders stay whiteish until mid-May from the runoff.

That said, anything exposed to the elements is subject to rust unless you have a carwash at home.

I know Murf is a proponent of tractors for snow removal, but I strongly advocate a beater truck and a plow for any snow removal chores. Nothing beats a radio, heat, a cushy seat and a cab--even someone along for the ride. And you can go plow your neighbor$ in the time it takes to do your own driveway with a blower.

Doing it yourself is fine, but at what cost?

Given a choice, keep the tractor in the garage or barn until spring and it will last a lifetime and more.

I'm jis' sayin'. ....

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hardwood
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2009-09-28          165998


Ken;
I've seen people use a tiller as ballast and I'll admit to doing it a time ot two myself, but the consequences of crunching a tiller by accidently backing into something can get pricey. The box blade on the other hand will likey mash up what you back into and not the boxblade. Another thing I use the box blade for is a parking brake. Having bum legs that don't work very good makes locking and unlocking the oparking brake kinda hard for me to do. Frank. ....

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Murf
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2009-09-28          166000


Quote:
Originally Posted by earthwrks | view 165988
I know Murf is a proponent of tractors for snow removal, but I strongly advocate a beater truck and a plow for any snow removal chores. Nothing beats a radio, heat, a cushy seat and a cab--even someone along for the ride. And you can go plow your neighbor$ in the time it takes to do your own driveway with a blower.


To a certain extent Jeff is right, I do run a lot of tractors for snow removal, but it's because I already have them for other uses, snow just makes them earn their keep all year round.

In years gone by most of our machines were parked for the winter, but the biggest influence in e decision to find winter work for them was my employees. They wanted to work a full year and not just 8 (or so) months of it.

The other issue is the kind of work we do, most of it just can't be done with much other than a tractor.

Jeff does make a good point though, a tractor won't be nearly as fast as a truck, if you need to be competitive on the price, the tractor will lose, especially if you have to go very far between jobs. At ~10 mph between jobs you're not going to get any speeding tickets.

Best of luck. ....

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ijcq350
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2009-09-28          166003


**Knock On Wood** Of the 3 machines I have used to move snow in the winter, only one got eaten up by the salt and that was a craftsman tractor. For me since its a side job its easier to do it with a tractor than a truck because the cops around here dont hassle me because technically you need a home improvement liscence to plow.

Thanks Hardwood you brought up a good point i didnt think of the smash factor with having something on the 3 point all the time, makes a weight box more economical since smashing the box is a cheap fix. ....

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Murf
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2009-09-28          166004


Quote:
Originally Posted by ijcq350 | view 166003
For me since its a side job its easier to do it with a tractor than a truck because the cops around here dont hassle me because technically you need a home improvement liscence to plow.


You better talk to your local cops then. Around here they are starting to crack down on equipment on the road at night. They don't mind you moving stuff with an SMV (slow moving vehicle) sign on the back day-time, or even after dusk in the summer, but they sure don't like it in the winter. We've even been hassled while driving day-time during snow storms.

They're more concerned about safety than they used to be. I'm hearing the same thing from other areas too. Even when you show them proof of insurance they don't like it and strongly suggest moving in clear daylight hours.

If you plan on driving around at night be sure you have lots of lights on that unit.

Best of luck. ....

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auerbach
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2009-09-28          166005


Chains? I recommend you get them for the fronts. Front chanins cost little, are easy on/off, and will help not only traction but steering control.

But you get relatively little traction from the fronts because they are smaller than the rears, have less down-force, and in slippery conditions likely only one will be pulling. If, after seeing what front chains do, you decide to get them for the rears too, they are easily available. ....

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ijcq350
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2009-09-28          166009


I have ridden my LX 188 to town and backk with the SMV Triangle and Strobes without any trouble, because as long as it looks like im helping a neighbor its ok. The town goes after people who look like they are profiting from it, and it helps that I live in suburbia and most things i do no one else does around here, like buy a 2305 LOL.

Auerbach thanks for that, I didnt know they made chains for the front tires I will look into them because I always hated the lack of steering control.

I also called the dealer and oreded an engine block heater for the machine, so theres no cold starts this winter since I dont have the luxury of a heated garage (someday tho.) ....

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Murf
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2009-09-28          166010


Just be very careful if your 'customers' have paved (asphalt, concrete or pagers) driveways.

As Jeff (earthwerks) mentioned earlier, chains wreak havoc on any 'finished' surface.

People really dislike paying 'pro's' and then finding 'amateur' damage afterwards.

I used to happily chew up several sets of turf tires a year doing snow removal at a few estates we maintain. It was a pittance compared to; a) what I was charging, and b) what repairing the damage of running R4's & chains would have cost.

Best of luck. ....

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earthwrks
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2009-09-28          166011


Auer IMHO I don't agree with you on running chains ONLY on the fronts. It makes the tires taller changing the gear ratio causing the tires to spin faster than they need or should (ever try operating a front-tine rototiller on hard ground?). And that added spinning will wear out the chains quicker. So, really, if chains are used, they should be front and back. ....

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auerbach
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2009-10-19          166398


Earth, the tire circumferance is the same with chains on. Mine are not thick mesh that covers the rolling surface, but a link every 6" or so, having the same effect as rolling over a small stone. As for scraping and wearing, if you don't need the added traction at the moment, you should not be in 4WD. In any case, I was suggesting the doing the fronts as a way to try out chains, a step to getting all four.

As for ballast, I should think he'd want a rear blade rather than wasting the hitch on just something heavy. But he might want a good weight over the blade unless he has down-power at the hitch, which I doubt. As for tire filling, I've had calcium ballast in the rears since new, and the only problem in 30 years was the valves corroding from it (a simple replacement). He might be better off calling a farm tire shop than the tractor dealer. ....

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Lwayne
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2009-10-21          166445


I've never been a big fan of putting chains on the front, but that's just me. My concern is if you're lacking in traction all around and the front grabs first it could give quite a jolt to the MFWD, being undersized to pull the entire load. If you have a FEL, that's usually adequate front ballast. My dealer encourages the more ballast on the rear, within reason, the better; especially on MFWD tractors. The brakes should handle turning issues. ....

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earthwrks
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2009-10-22          166457


Auer, rolling over a small stone does not affect circumference. However, if that stone is stuck to the tire--like a chain would be---it does affect it even albeit momentarily, just like over- under-inflation or over-weight conditions.

I'm jis' sayin. ....

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DRankin
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2009-10-26          166546


A Deere 2305 is the same size as a Kubota BX.

The rear tires are 26-12x12's and it would be a waste of time and cash to fill such small tires with a couple gallons of fluid.

The wheel weights would weigh more. Put extra ballast on the three point hitch.

As far as chains.... I would bet you can't even get them on the front tires due to clearance issues with the axles, and as some really smart folks have already suggested.... you might need them for the rears, but it really depends on conditions.

And on to the screws in the tires..... the tractor comes with "R-4" tires but in reality they are nowhere near as thick as a "real" R-4 skid steer tire, so proceed with caution.

All the 26-12x12 "R-4" tires I have seen are really just a turf carcass with a different (and less desirable) tread pattern.

You can also upgrade to R-3 Turf tires for $27 bucks according to the Deere web site and that is what I would do in your shoes. ....

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DRankin
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2009-10-26          166548


Oh... one more thing... somewhere in this thread I got the impression you might be plowing snow for cash.

So I thought I would point out (you probably already know) that the max ground speed for these units are around 8 mph.

That is a long slow drive if there is much distance between jobs. ....

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